On letting the Republicans win...

[nadinbrzezinski]

Yes, that is the let's throw hands up and give up. Yes we are against forces that are incredibly strong, and for the record they are also taking over the Democratic Party...

Yes kids today do not know what Unions have done, and it is not just kids.

I am surprised beyond belief to hear anybody my age or under who does... quick, when was the last time a comprehensive history of labor was written and chiefly PUBLISHED? 1967... that is forty three years ago. Read that again.

So our choice is to throw hand up, or do what is difficult. For my part I am still researching (and readying a lot) into the history of labor. I know we have been here before. I also know EDUCATION is part of this... it is not the easy route either. On the bright side what Republicans (and yes somem Democrats) have been up to, is waking up American Labor.

Oh and yes Obama is a centrist, hell center right, and indeed the system has moved further and further to the right... so yes, the deck is indeed staked But we have been here before. Roll up sleeves m'kay... and please do not fall for the distractions (Wiener, which was not accidental, I mean he was a PROGRESSIVE.... if he had been a RIGHT WING REPUBLICAN... what scandal?)

[RKP5637]

1. K&R

[Johonny]

2. I've seen America when Republicans win

it really sucked.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. Actually we have not seen the worst they can do

not yet...

For that you'd have to go back in the way back machine to 1884 or so. Now talk about a country in the hands of an elite with NO unions, just labor unrest.

[Johonny]

9. also in modern times and my life time

I've seen their political philosophies play out in other countries. We've seen what happens in countries that privatized social security, we know what happens with countries with only private health care plans, we've seen what happens in countries with no labor unions or environmental laws etc... We don't even have to look at our own distant past history. Many events in most DUers lives tell you how these policies play out. They don't work, they've never worked. I never understand why the media pretends we don't know likely outcomes to policy discussions.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Alas DU is far more cosmopolitan than the country at large

chile? For the most part people would not know what you are talking about... and DU is not as Cosmopolitan as it could be.

Americans are both insular and ignorant of history... those two are not good traits... to be honest.

As to the media... as they say follow the money.

[Skidmore]

4. nadin, that whole type of thinking is just what the

Rs do. They can afford to forfeit and we cannot. I could not believe that a serious DUer or liberal would even bring that idea to the board when I saw that thread earlier. It makes me furious.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. I can, people are slowly crossing into the give up

category with valid reasons. I have been tempted a few tines to just stop giving a fig leave... then I am reminded why we need to keep the fight... for me my two nephews. They might be bratty but the price they will pay.

That said, during the shiva some of the conversations about the US and where we are going and what is in store for the children was maddening People have mostly accepted that the future will be bleak. I shiva was NOT the place to go into a rant of why we fight though. And I mostly staid out of them anyway... Mexico City and we still had a tea party member, Once he realized he was surrounded by bleeding heart liberals, he decided to wisely shut up.

[elocs]

6. Last November here in Wisconsin we let the Republicans win. It gave us Walker, lost us Feingold.

Walker received 90% of the total votes that went to McCain in 2008, while Barrett only received 60% of the vote total that went to Obama. Republicans were fired up and turned out at the polls. Unfortunately too many Democrats were in a snit about Obama or Congress and didn't bother to vote. So Walker got in and the rape of the state began and Feingold was out.

Want to know what will happen if the Republicans control everything on a national level? Exactly what is happening right here in Wisconsin. They would move swiftly to demolish social programs held dear by Democrats and millions of Americans. Not all at once, but they will turn up the heat on the pot of water.

Republicans love it when Democrats give up, become disenchanted, and don't bother to vote because it makes their jobs so much more easy. Weiner was a moron and he made the job much easier for Republicans also. That he was a Progressive moron does not make his actions and choices any less stupid.

[JoePhilly]

7. Everything the GOP does is predicated on destroying the government so

that voters give up and stay home.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Unfortunately that is a lesson

people need to experience in the flesh... partly because we as a people do NOT know our history... and that is by design.

[mmonk]

10. Creating a strong labor movement again is going to be tough.

The media is corporate, the political parties corporate, and the courts corporate. The unions are splintered and some try and cooperate with those seeking their end leaving fellow unions hanging without firm support. We saw the power in Wisconsin when they unify. In other states, there is division on approach. If there is a movement to be reborn, all lessons must come from the Wisconsin example and replicated state by state.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Come with me to the way back machine

that was the US in 1880 or so as well. We are refighting the same battles, and WI is the future. Why the press went out of it's way NOT to cover it, with few exceptions, thanks to Bid Eddie for that coverage and to a point Rachel Maddow

[mmonk]

13. Big Eddie knows his stuff on this subject.

Yes, we are back to the Gilded Age.

[felix_numinous]

14. Are we going to let the next Labor Day go by....

without being heard?

[larwdem]

15. FIGHT

FIGHT LIKE HELL:argh: