Need help debunking: Blue State Schools: The Shame of a Nation

[goodboy]

http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2011/06/20/blue-state-schools-the-shame-of-a-nation/

When it come to excellence in education, red states rule — at least according to a panel of experts assembled by Tina Brown’s Newsweek. Using a set of indicators ranging from graduation rate to college admissions and SAT scores, the panel reviewed data from high schools all over the country to find the best public schools in the country.

The results make depressing reading for the teacher unions: the very best public high schools in the country are heavily concentrated in red states.

Three of the nation’s ten best public high schools are in Texas — the no-income tax, right-to-work state that blue model defenders like to characterize as America at its worst. Florida, another no-income tax, right-to-work state long misgoverned by the evil and rapacious Bush dynasty, has two of the top ten schools.


Simply put - how are they making these correlations?

[Kerrytravelers]

1. How are they ranking?

When Little Boots was in Texas, he played with the numbers.

In California, our State Educational Standards are set higher than other states. So, not surprisingly, more kids score "below proficient." Now, what legislator in their right minds is going to stand on the floor of the state capital and declare that the state should lower their set standards? None. So, we get these crazy numbers. However, when comparing what a California student can actually do, they are equal to any other high performing state.

I would suspect this is true for a number of states.

[Dawson Leery]

2. Massachusetts has the best public schools. This list is based upon

self-reported statsitics.


"We ranked all respondents based on the following self-reported statistics, listed with their corresponding weight in our final calculation:"

:wtf:

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dawson Leery]

7. This report cherry picks a handful of schools from

affluent metropolitan areas. Naturally, those schools are going to do better. They are better funded and have a great level of diversity in terms of who attends and access to people who understand the importance of education.

[pnwmom]

21. More than that -- they have entrance requirements that keep out

all but high-achievers.

[gkhouston]

6. Also, these are a handful of schools in a huge state (Texas)

which has many abysmal ones. Should we be judging the quality of a state's educational system by how well the students perform at their top magnet or G/T schools, or should we look at the whole picture? In my opinion, we need to look at how all the kids are doing.

[MannyGoldstein]

13. Yep, bluest of the blue Massachusetts is #1 by far

Based on test results, MA public schools produce, far-and-away, the best results in the US:

e.g., from http://www.massteacher.org/archive/2007/headlines_2007-09-24.cfm

Bay State students lead nation on NAEP
Once again, Massachusetts public school students have outscored their counterparts in every other state on a series of exams often referred to as "The Nation's Report Card."

And very nearly the best in the world:

e.g., from http://www.boston.com/news/education/k_12/articles/2008/12/10/bright_sign_for_tech_in_mass/

Bright sign for tech in Mass. Science, math pupils near top internationally
Massachusetts students significantly outperformed their peers nationwide on a prestigious math and science exam, putting the state on an elite international tier, according to results released yesterday.

In many cases, the state's impressive showing on the Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study (conducted by Boston College) puts Massachusetts in the same league with Hong Kong, Taiwan, and Singapore - academic heavyweights that have long made US policy-makers fearful of losing an economic competitive edge.

[bluestate10]

25. Massachusetts is #1 as you stated. The state took over the top spot

a couple years back under Governor Deval Patrick. Students in the state had back slid under Mitt Romney, but Patrick came in and righted the ship.

[EFerrari]

4. Are you sure this isn't from The Onion?

[FormerDittoHead]

5. Keep you eyes out. The report is BS and you know it.

I'm sure being in Newsweek, this "study" will be reviewed by those with a different (ie: FACTUAL) perspective and we'll be reading more about it...

But about the commentary interspersed with the results?

I suppose that raising most of your revenue on sales tax versus income tax makes a difference between how schools are run?

You know as well as I do that while Texas might very well have a handful of great schools in very rich counties, but the fact is that, as a state, they're mostly NOT poster children for higher learning down there (with all due respect to those living in the 3 cities and the .000001% of those smart Texans reading this)

The fact is that the PEOPLE *RUNNING* THEIR SCHOOLS are FUCKING IDIOTS:
exhibit one:
http://firedoglake.com/2009/03/29/creationists-on-texas-school-board-prevail-watered-down-science-coming-to-your-kids-textbooks/

...so I really don't put a lot into this "study".

[Dawson Leery]

8. See how many right wing blogs picked up ont his propaganda.

http://www.google.com/search?um=1&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=s&biw=1920&bih=864&q=anna%20prosser&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=52093l53668l0l12l9l0l2l2l0l320l1410l0.4.2.1l7&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=iw#sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&source=hp&q=best+public+schools+blue+states&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=97a511600a7064dc&biw=1920&bih=864

[FormerDittoHead]

10. Oh thanks. You're right. They'll be all over this as "proof".

Yes, all things are political... They'll be all over it....

But let's make sure to bookmark the analysis and rebuttals, because the other side will be citing this for years...

[WCGreen]

16. Funding for schools primarily comes from property taxes...

Which is why many of the successful school systems are in areas with high property values...

[EFerrari]

9. State Education Rankings: Graduation Rates for High School, College, and Grad/Professional School

July 2010

According to U.S. Census estimates, only seven U.S. states have high school graduation rates above 90%: Minnesota, Wyoming, Alaska, Montana, New Hampshire, Utah, and Vermont. The percentage of United States residents who have earned a high school diploma is 84.5%.

There are fifteen states with above average high school and college graduation rates: Colorado, Connecticut, Hawaii, Illinois, Kansas, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Oregon, Utah, Virginia, and Washington. The percentage of United States residents who have earned a Bachelor's degree is 27.4%.

Another fifteen states have below average high school and college graduation rates: Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Nevada, New Mexico, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, and West Virginia.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5562698/state_education_rankings_graduation.html

[madinmaryland]

11. Maryland has some of the best school systems in the nation. We have done

it without cutting teachers salaries or cutting teachers. We our honoring our commitments to teachers and to all of our public sector employees. In fact, we are setting money aside to guarantee the pensions of all state employees.

[Dawson Leery]

12. See this

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/edu_bes_edu_ind-education-best-educated-index

[pnwmom]

14. Just glancing at that list, many of them are either magnet or gifted schools.

In other words, they are drawing the most motivated and/or brightest students from a number of other schools.

Maybe red states are more likely to pull out the best students into their own schools.

[Luminous Animal]

15. That is, the red states are more successful at creating a segregated public school system.

[trotsky]

18. Bingo. n/t

[FLPanhandle]

17. Looking at Florida

It appears the blue counties in this state are much heavier represented.

Although I have to admit, we live in the deepest of deep red counties in Florida and the schools here are excellent. However, that's in spite of our Republican administration. We have a excellent parent volunteer rates and personal contributions to assist classes with supplies.

[Maine-ah]

19. Twice as many Maine schools may fail to meet federal standards

http://bangordailynews.com/2011/06/21/education/twice-as-many-maine-schools-may-fail-to-meet-federal-standards/

BANGOR, Maine — The number of Maine schools lagging behind federal school improvement requirements will increase drastically this year and might double in poorer areas, according to education officials who said they have never seen such an increase.

Though Maine is not alone in its struggle to keep up with the No Child Left Behind Act, diminishing funding to address the issue will only exacerbate the problem, according to the Maine Department of Education.

The jump in schools that aren’t keeping up with the act — which under the Obama administration is now called the Elementary Secondary Education Act — doesn’t mean that Maine schools are becoming worse, but rather that they aren’t improving as quickly as they need to, said Rachelle Tome, who directs the program in Maine.

“We actually lost half our federal money we had for school improvement,” said Tome. “It’s going to stretch the program very thin.”

[pnwmom]

20. Why is this crap? The top ranked school only accepts top students in the first place.

There are strict entrance requirements, including special testing. I'm sure that's true of most of the other schools on this list as well.

It's easy to produce scholars when you only accept scholars. A FAIR ranking would look at schools that accept all public school students, and would further break down the list to see how well students do from different economic groups.

http://www.semagnetschool.org/academics/entrance_requirements.jsp

Dallas, School of Science and Engineering Magnet

All students who attend DISD schools are eligible to apply to and attend the school free of charge. All students fill out applications and are ranked by several criteria and the top performing students are chosen to be invited to attend the school.

Requirements:
To be placed in the initial selection pool, each student must have a GPA of 80 in the core subjects of English, math, science and social studies.
To be placed in the second selection pool, each student must pass standardized tests (i.e. ITBS, Stanford 9) with a score of at least 160 points total for math and reading combined. (No score lower than 65th percentile).

To be placed in the final selection pool, each student must:
A. Pass an on-site English essay exam, timed for a maximum of two hours and held under SEM supervision. (40% of total).
B. Pass an on-site math exam consisting of problems, untimed and held under SEM supervision. (40% of the total).
C. Pass an on-site personal interview with SEM personnel. (20% of total).

[hifiguy]

22. Sure. And if there were purple cows on the moon

they would certainly be purple.

Without a cross-check on the methodology used - and using cherry-picked self-reported data is anything but - this is just more reichwing propagandistic bull manure.

[pnwmom]

23. The article discusses the methodology used -- test scores, graduation rates, etc.

But what it fails to mention is that most of these schools had competitive ADMISSIONS procedures -- they weren't typical public schools, required to take all comers.

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. I've never trusted that list