Does anyone really think the USA public is going to "rise up" to put a stop to this madness?

[99th_Monkey]

... I mean to really rise up, like in Egypt recently, or like on the streets in the 60s.

This is a genuine question; because I frankly don't know :shrug:

[Spider Jerusalem]

1. What madness are you referring to?

More pointedly, in what way is the situation in the US at present in any wise comparable to that in Egypt, or in any of the other Middle Eastern and North African countries recently experiencing unrest? Does the US have 25-40% unemployment? No. Does the US have a ban on public meetings and assemblies of more than three persons? No. Does the US have a brutally repressive government that tortures its citizens in shadowy secret prisons? No again. There's nothing in the US that's remotely close to anything in Egypt, or Syria, or Libya, and there's nothing in the US today that's remotely comparable to the 1960's with the last gasp of segregation and public racism, either.

[nxylas]

2. I'll take that as a no, then

WE'RE #1! WE'RE #1! WE'RE #1! WE'RE #1!

[Spider Jerusalem]

3. The situation in America whatever it may be is better than in most places in the world.

Things would have to be much worse than they are to make Americans stop being complacent And of course the answer is no. Is there mass unemployment and starvation? (NB: 10% doesn't qualify as "mass unemployment"; it's not great but it's not as bad as it could be.) Is there government-sanctioned violence against and repression of citizens? No? Then any talk of "rising up and taking to the streets" is quite frankly arrant nonsense and is not going to happen.

[nxylas]

10. Is there government-sanctioned violence against and repression of citizens?

Well, the President recently called for the assasination of a US citizen, Anwar al-Awlaki. And secret prisons already exist (Gitmo, extroardinary rendition). And the true unemployment figure is probably closer to 20%. But even if it were to rise to twice that and people started routinely disappearing from their homes, I doubt there'd be an uprising. Too many people believe that because there's an election every 4 years in which they get to choose which candidate gets to represent big business, they're FREE!

[Spider Jerusalem]

13. Not really an example

al-Awlaki is a terrorist. (The British security services targeted IRA members for assassination; that doesn't qualify as "government-sanctioned violence against and repression of citizens" either.) Seriously, if you think that the US or indeed any Western country has conditions remotely similar to Egypt or Syria or any developing country then you are very badly out of touch with reality.

[nxylas]

16. No, it's not as bad as Egypt

But my point is that even if it was, I don't think we'd see an uprising, because people would still be telling themselves that America is the greatest country in the world, the land of the free and so forth.

[Maru Kitteh]

22. Moving the goalposts?

That's not what your OP looks like at all. And SJ is correct. Anyone who believes the conditions in the US are remotely similar to those of the most desperate, destitute and repressed founts of the Arab Spring is unlearned at best.

[nxylas]

24. Not really, because I said the same thing in my previous post

To quote myself:

"But even if it were to rise to twice that and people started routinely disappearing from their homes, I doubt there'd be an uprising. Too many people believe that because there's an election every 4 years in which they get to choose which candidate gets to represent big business, they're FREE!"

Just because unemployment and repression are not at Egyptian levels, it doesn't mean they're irrelevant. At what point do things get bad enough to warrant an uprising? If they got as bad as Egypt, would people then say "but it's still not as bad as Rwanda?" The "look at other countries" mantra is a soothing palliative designed to blind people to injustices at home.

[adigal]

26. I don't believe there is no starvation and 10% unemployment

How often do you hear about tent cities,such as the one at the Sacramento River? Our media wants us ignorant about these things. I know two people who might lose their unemployment and their houses. Where are they going to go? One woman's mother already has two adult children living with her.

Keep us ignorant, and keep those new I-Pads coming out and we will all amuse ourselves to death (thank you, Neil Postman.)

[Bandit]

27. Tell that to Public Employees in Wisconsin.

:shrug:

[Bragi]

28. USA way ahead of impoverished 3rd world

When US wages fall below those of India, then there'll be hell to pay.

Until then, rock on, watch The Voice, and enjoy the fish!

[99th_Monkey]

41. Dude, the human race is pretty much FUBAR.

and the USA is way more complicit in driving us collectively off the cliff than any other nation, via a familiar laundry list of "issues", such as climate change, the fact that we're all being radiated from Fukashima and no one seems to notice except Arnie Gunderson, while Obama plans to build even more nuke plants in the US, the global hunger, the out of control insane disparity of wealth in the US with no plan to correct it, etc. etc.

We in the USA have a special responsibility to do whatever we can to put the brakes on this madness .. would you not agree?

[muriel_volestrangler]

62. So it's an uprising against consumption?

It'd be good for the environment, no doubt, but if that's the kind of uprising you're thinking of, then, no, I can't see the American public doing that at all. If it were likely, then the Green Party would have had a a lot more support in the past. It's just not a big concern of most Americans. The best you could hope for would be an anti-banker uprising; that would fix part of the last problem you list, but I don't think Americans are that worried about disparities in wealth, to be honest.

[StevesRedLens]

71. I See Madness Everyday

I think the point was that talk is cheap. No, we're not Egypt or Iran, but if you don't see MADNESS in our current socio-economic system, where are you living?

[PotatoChip]

4. Sadly, I doubt it

Has anyone noticed how tuned-out people are these days? Seriously, the next time you visit a random public place such as bus station or airport, take note of how many people (particularly those under 40) who are in their own little worlds w/their tech gadgets and such.

And for those of us who are paying attention, a sizable portion are ill-informed in their views due to the barrage of rw media and other corporatist propaganda, thanks in part to Reagan's doing away w/the Fairness Doctrine 20+ yrs ago.

So that leaves very few of us to 'rise up', I'm afraid. I'd like to think I am wrong about this. I certainly hope so, but :shrug:

[DesertFlower]

5. i agree. nt

[99th_Monkey]

42. I wish I could disagree, but I can't nt

[midnight]

6. I think many have been to confused to make sense of what

is being said vs. what is happening...

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leveymg]

8. Even on progressive message boards, there's a shockingly high level of

cynicism, reactionary sentiment, and out-and-out advocacy of Conservative institutions and thought.

We're a long way from any sort of Left-wing uprising, anyway. The Left, indeed, seems the most law-abiding part of the populace, and the most concerned about maintaining Rule of Law and Constitutional norms in America.

[JoePhilly]

47. I thought the OP was referring to the Tea Baggers ...

They are always threatening to "water the tree of Liberty".

[MnFats]

9. see what the summer's like. A police brutality incident...

very hot weather with an inadequate response....It's on. Maybe. Nah, it;s not happening. I think not. No, for sure. no trouble in the streets.

[quaker bill]

11. No, I don't think so

Look at Egypt as the example. It took decades of severe oppression and very difficult economic conditions combined with a very symbolic event to spark the protest. While times are no doubt tough for many people here, the violent oppression does not exist at that level, and the bulk of us are still doing fairly well.

In the 1960's, the violent oppression of protests started well before the protests themselves became violent. The protests themselves were against the legal oppression of a race and forced conscription into a war that had lost public support.

There could be a point when there is a combination of enough empty houses and homeless people, that unrest will be the result. However, I expect some accomodation will be made politically before that happens. Right now, where I live, if you aren't broke and are willing to shop around and jump on a deal, you can pick up a house at prices that have not been seen since the 1970s. It is unclear that the bottom has been reached.

[99th_Monkey]

43. Good points all. thanks. nt

[Denver Progressive]

12. I believe that if things get worse w/ the economy

rising up won't be a matter if, but when. And when it does happen,I would hope that there would be protests in Rockefeller Plaza,(much like Tahrir Square)so the media couldn't ignore us. Because if one thing IS for sure,they WILL try!

[jimlup]

14. The US public is too confused

[disidoro01]

15. We are too divided to rise up.

Look at our military interventions. When Bush did attacked Iraq and afghanistan, the rightwingers cheered and many on the left were outraged. Years later we are not only continuing those wars but President Obama has expanded our military roles into Libya and Yemen and Syria may well be next. Many of his supporters now think attacking sovereign countries is ok.
I use this as an example of division although it may not be perfect.
As a society and as a government we are to busy being left or right to work together in overcoming obstacles or issues.

[GliderGuider]

17. Not at the moment. However, things always change.

Take a 15 year time horizon: five more years of global recession followed by ten years of global depression, a tripling of unemployment rates, further cuts to social security nets, a tripling of gasoline and food prices, factor in increased security-state activity due to rising levels of social unrest, and hey presto - you've got all the fixings for a righteous insurrection or two.

[99th_Monkey]

45. +1

[Chan790]

18. No.

I'm going to go out on a limb here since it's barely 7am and give you the dumbest question of the day award now. Not only do you not explain what madness you're referring to, the answer domestically is almost never that sort of political action. Nor why you think that's a good idea.

Revolutions are not made by people in the street; they're made by subterfuge, swaying public opinion and controlling the message. In some places, you can achieve that by marching in the street, the US is not one of those places. The public by-and-large either points and mocks "look at those morons in the street!" or implicitly turns against your cause because your protest method is disruptive.

[99th_Monkey]

51. Thanks for your thoughtful reply

Oh gee, I wonder what I could be referring to as "this madness". Maybe that the human race is pretty much FUBAR, and the USA is way more complicit in driving us collectively off the cliff than any other nation, via a familiar laundry list of "issues", such as out of control global climate change, the fact that we're all being radiated from Fukashima and no one seems to notice except Arnie Gunderson, while Obama plans to build even more nuke plants in the US, the global hunger, the out of control insane disparity of wealth in the US with no plan to correct it, etc. etc.

How's that for starters Your Snarkyness?


BTW - I pretty much agree with your second paragraph.

[sendero]

73. Not when..

.. large masses of people cannot feed themselves. Your scenario is based on things muddling along as they are, but that's not what is likely to happen.

[NNN0LHI]

19. Egypt is now living under the rule of a military junta

Is that what you are hoping happens here?


Don

[99th_Monkey]

44. Mubarak is gone. Egypt is very different than USA obviously.

My point is that people mobilized in the streets, made clear demands, and stuff happened that was long overdue to happen.

The military actually was mostly helpful as I recall as it was unfolding, and there is now some sort of "transitional" gov't being formed, no?

[NNN0LHI]

54. Yea, everything is sweet over there now

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/06/for-egypts-revolutionaries-history-offers-discouraging-lessons/240401/

For Egypt's Revolutionaries, History Offers Discouraging Lessons
By Thanassis Cambanis
Jun 14 2011, 7:02 AM ET

CAIRO, Egypt -- Old ways die hard.

It only requires a quick glance at the new Egyptian junta -- as most of the country's citizens see it -- to understand how the military rulers see their inviolable position. On its Facebook page, the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces issues terse directives. Egyptian citizens post comments by the tens of the thousands, but there's never any response. The military's high-handed public outreach is similarly one-sided. One general appears on television to read the same directives, stony-faced, to a camera. And every now and again, the military stages public "dialogues," which come across, intentionally or not, as patronizing lectures.

How does the military view its future in Egypt? What internal dynamics are shaping the military's political strategy, which could in large part determine whether February's revolution is a success? Within the officer corps, there are diverse views as to how much power the Egyptian army should wield, and how much it should yield to elected civilians.

It can be difficult to get answers to these questions from the military, perhaps in part because they themselves don't yet know. So I've turned to reading history, hoping to find answers there, and was struck once again by the tight congruity between present-day Egypt and the critical points it has experienced over the last century and a half. During much of that time, Egypt has politically lain fallow, either because of self-induced paralysis as during Hosni Mubarak's rule or long periods of colonial subjugation, as during the era of the British-orchestrated Veiled Protectorate.

The times of wide-open transition, when anything seemed possible, have been few and far between. Egyptian colonels revolted against British rule and were crushed in 1882. After World War One, there was a flash when liberal government appeared a distinct possibility, but again, Britain and the Egyptian royal family conspired against it. Arguably, the last time before the present day when Egypt entertained the possibility of representative rule was in 1952, when Gamal Abdel Nasser's Free Officers deposed the king and promised a prosperous, democratic "Egypt for Egyptians."

[SmileyRose]

20. Not in my lifetime - it's not bad enough yet.

Things are on a downward trend but the majority of American can still afford to spend time on American Idol. When the majority is working too many hours to spend half the evening in front of the TeeVeee and still can't afford to own 3 walk in closets full of shit - then we might see an uprising.

[Stinky The Clown]

21. The streets in the 60s were very different from Egypt, recently, But the answer to your question is

"No."

The American populace is sufficiently anesthetized that there's no need to worry about such eventualities.

[FSogol]

23. No, not until the Chalupas and Diet Cokes run out.

Sorry. True fact.

[lame54]

25. Walkerville is a good start

[Marrah_G]

29. Not really.... I think logistically we are just to big

To spread out, unable to take days off to, to lazy or scared to seriously think about what is happening.

I would like to think the public would, but I don't see it happening unless prompted by a major catalyst that effects people everywhere in a traumatic fashion. Otherwise we seem to be frogs in a pot on the stove.

[Le Taz Hot]

30. Yes, and I'm old enough to have watched it happen

one other time in my life.

[99th_Monkey]

52. Me too.

UFW Grape boycott, SDS, RFK campaign in 60s, also Seattle/WTO more recently.

revolt in the streets can get messy and dangerous for all concerned, but
sometimes it's exactly what's needed to get the attention of the men behind
the curtain.

Yet sadly, few seem to care that much, or are just to "busy" trying to
survive. :(

[Zorra]

31. Comfortably Numb.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkJNyQfAprY

Notice how central the TV is to the segment.

[City Lights]

32. We haven't hit bottom yet.

The rise-up won't occur until sometime after we collectively hit bottom. Too many people are still whistling past the graveyard.

[Javaman]

33. only when their comforts are infringed upon.

when gas gets so high, when food become too expensive, when they can't get what ever fat laden corn syrup snack they want, when they can't put themselves deeper in debt, then and only then, the must have it now generation of America will protest.

until then, as long as they can watch the sunday ball game, BBQ mystery meat in the backyard, while sucking down a few cool ones while fishing out at the lake, on their still not paid for boat, nothing will change.

I see it here were I work. It's as if people purposely choose to live in oblivion. I guess it's just easier that way, because given our health care system and our grossly overweight and out of shape society, getting ones blood up, could kill you.

[Missy Vixen]

38. Wow. Broad brush much?

>It's as if people purposely choose to live in oblivion.<

Oh, I see. Since they don't (allegedly) care about the same things you do, they're "living in oblivion". Does it cross your mind at all that it's all MOST people can do to keep putting one foot in front of the other right now, let alone keeping a roof over their heads, food in their kids' mouths, and remaining one step ahead of the bill collectors?

>given our health care system and our grossly overweight and out of shape society, getting ones blood up, could kill you.<

Oh, yeah. After all, fat people never have a thought other than where they'll get their next "fat laden corn syrup snack".

I'm fat. I'd rather spend the rest of my life fat than exhibit the attitudes towards anyone who's not svelte I see here on a daily basis, and the attitudes towards those who aren't as "aware". After all, it must be tough to be the pinnacle of physical perfection, and have to suffer those who just aren't.

:eyes:

[Javaman]

59. Sure, why not? show me examples of the general population rioting

over what our country has turned into.

and tea party idiots and the various planned and staged war protests do not count.

Upon edit: I said fat laden food, not fat people. Do not put words in my mouth.

And if you took this personally, I feel sorry for you. I generally automatically exempt people from DU because, most of the time we have a clue.

However, you read into this on a personal level. That is something you have do deal with not me.

[Missy Vixen]

63. I hate to break it to you

but the average American is so busy at their fifty-hour a week job (and add commuting on top of that,) they aren't "rioting in the streets". After all, someone has to take care of their kids, their aging parents, and they'd like to hang onto the crappy job they have now. If they don't have a crappy job, their stress load is even higher.

You feel sorry for me? I feel sorry for those here whose smug, supercilious, elitist and holier-than-thou world view makes me realize they have no idea what anyone else goes through in a day. After all, while some are being "enlightened", others are doing all they can to simply stay afloat in this economy.

BTW, before you chide me on "putting words in your mouth", I read your original post. Anyone who comprehends what they read saw two different shots at the overweight. Comprehending what one reads is important, isn't it?

[Javaman]

68. wow, you read a lot into that.

you have your opinion, which I don't agree with. that's life.

You seem to be enjoy yourself "tell me how life really is". You don't know me, I don't know you. and it doesn't appear as if you want to, otherwise you would have read my journal and would see your "holier than thou" comment is way out of line.

[99th_Monkey]

53. I agree

with much of what you say. It's difficult to not be deeply cynical most of the time myself.

It's not like we don't know what to do, what's needed (i.e. cut military spending, raise tax on the rich, create straight-up single-payer health care, invest in green energy, etc. etc. ... it's just that no one is determined enough and/or focused enough to sound the alarms loud enough, blah blah.

[Brickbat]

34. It's much easier for a small, homogeneous population to do so.

[harun]

35. No, they will not.

[sinkingfeeling]

36. No

[drpepper67]

37. No, but we're going to write a very angry blog...

[TBF]

39. It will have to get worse and with both parties insistence on austerity measures

I don't think we're far away from it. It's not what people will want to do, it's what they will be forced to do as more fall into unemployment, foreclosure, etc...

[Beam Me Up]

40. Resistance is the key.

And it doesn't have to be masses in the streets. Financial resistance is where it starts. What you do with your money is as important as what you do with your vote.

[truebrit71]

46. Not while Fox has some new Simon Cowell bullshit show on the air they won't...

...that would require them to pro-actively get off their couches and engage one another...

[fascisthunter]

48. eventually YES

[JoePhilly]

49. Less than half vote. That should be your first clue.

[Ikonoklast]

75. End of discussion.

And the real tragedy of this country.

[dana_b]

50. hell no... France basically shuts the country down

when their retirement age was about to go up but we just roll over and blame our neighbors.

Some of us have been out in the street but we're always looked upon as some sort of annoyance or amusement.

[99th_Monkey]

57. I do think someone's talking about trying to shut down DC

with a mass encampment until some basic demands are met, sometime in next few months, but don't remember
the name of the group or the link, but if I see it again I'll pass it along.

I live on West Coast so getting to DC would be a big deal for me, but if the effort were serious enough,
I'd certainly try to get there somehow.

[xiamiam]

55. yes..i think the young men and women returning from foolish wars will speak truth

and be the catalyst..i dont think it will be people who frequent boards like this unless they are vehemently anti war..and that is the issue that will galvanize us..war without end which no one wants except the mic and the people who profit from chaos...watch adam vs the man on rt if you want to see some of what i think will propel us forward. I was amazed at the clarity of purpose of the young people in egypt and tunisia, etc as i watched them interviewed on al jazeera. I have the same faith in our youth. We're handing them a crappy set of circumstances, and if it were not for the fact that we also sent them to war, there probably would not be an uprising...but, we did send them to war and we made them fearless and patriots..and they know that its all bs.

http://rt.com/programs/adam-vs-man/independence-obama-elections-police/

[99th_Monkey]

61. Thanks for the link to that pesky dancing "criminal"

and for your thoughts on my question. peace out.

[rustydog]

56. No, the American people have not hit bottom yet.

[MrScorpio]

58. In America? Never. nt

[PufPuf23]

60. What is more likely than an internal uprising is a military competitive

alliance against the USA/NATO that leads to more draconian conditions within the USA.

What if China, Russia, Iran, Chavista's in Latin America, and Islamic nations in Arica and Asia ally and begin to respond in kind to USA/NATO aggression?

What if the USA then suffers some tough military losses and we have WWIII?

The domestic mechanism is in place for martial law, conscription, rationing, and tighter social control.

I am very pessistic about the domestic economy the future strength in the global economy.

What would come out of such a global showdown especially if our ties with NATO and/or UK nations are weakened as well?

Sadly, increasing madness has become the new normal.

[Lizzie Poppet]

72. Depends on when it happened.

"What if China, Russia, Iran, Chavista's in Latin America, and Islamic nations in Africa and Asia ally and begin to respond in kind to USA/NATO aggression?"

Depends on when it happened. If it happened tomorrow (or for at least the next ten years), they'd get crushed. The USA/NATO axis is exponentially more powerful than a Russia/China alliance (and the rest are, frankly, bit players, even though some can field large numbers of troops in or near their own borders). Even China has very limited ability to project military power beyond its own borders, at least for the next decade or so. Of the listed nations/continents, only Russia has any ability to take a battle to NATO (to say nothing of the US), and it's not a battle Russia could win.

Ten or twenty years down the road? WHo knows. But I think we'll have a very, very different US by then, anyway. I foresee a break-up, actually...muck like the former Soviet Union.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

64. no

[TheKentuckian]

65. What is your timeframe? It has to get squeezed in between rock bottom and military junta

[demwing]

66. Not on our own we won't...that requires an iconic leader

a person willing to strike the spark that sets off a movement. As much as we like to think highly of ourselves, Americans are followers, not leaders.

You see we want to follow something - ANYTHING.

What scares me is that all this undirected, uninformed populist rage is boiling in America - and it will find an outlet eventually. It may be through enlightened populist revolt, or it might be through faux populist fascism. The group that figures out how to light the spark - and control the burn - will determine how it all plays out.

[PeaceNikki]

67. We've been trying really hard here in WI for several months. Keep watching us.

[TK421]

69. nope..we do most of our protesting right here, online, where things get done

and if you think a sarcasm smilie is necessary for that, well....

[ej510]

70. No this country believes in the American dream and have too many shiny objects

to distract them. America is fucked because there are too many stupid people in this country.

[FLPanhandle]

74. An uprising requires the loss of hope of change

Things aren't great now, but not nearly bad enough to make a critical mass of people angry enough to demand change. As things get worse, there will still be hope that things will get better.

When things are really bad and hope is dead, then, and only then, will people get close to an uprising.

[Imajika]

76. Conditions in the US are nothing like in Egypt..

And who would people rise up against? People are confused, just look at polling and it's clear folks have no clue what to do about much of anything. People say they want cuts, but polling usually shows they don't want to cut any specific programs. People say they want tax hikes on the rich, but consistently fall for Republican "tax and spend" campaign rhetoric. People say they want regular people in charge that they can relate to, but they don't actually vote that way. People say we shouldn't raise the debt limit, but also expect us to pay our bills. I mean, people really just don't understand policy well enough to even single out who specifically they'd protest against. I'm not even so sure if we had mass protests that they wouldn't be from the right. I agree with you that we are in unsettled times, but I don't think the masses even understand where to direct their anger.

[KT2000]

77. No - too drugged up

with heart medications, High BP meds, anti-depressants and tv shows.
The mindset now is that the bad stuff is happening to bad people who deserve it.