Two points about the Weiner story

[Waiting For Everyman]

Yes, what he did was pervy, Yes, it was creepy, cheesy, and tacky. Yes, it was stupid beyond belief. And it was so just plain UNNECESSARY to do this damage to himself, and disappoint others so massively.

But.

Point 1: This is really aberrant behavior for the public at large. But it is NOT that unusual among people who text, tweet, video message, and facebook. A WHOLE LOT OF OTHERWISE 'NORMAL' PEOPLE DO THIS TOO. This isn't rare 'outlier' behavior among that geoup. Yes, I think it's stupid, but it's very COMMON PRACTICE among that group of people, especially youngish ones (younger than boomer age, let's say). It's the norm, not the exception. I'm sure lots of people on DU have done it. It's done by intelligent and trusted people with serious jobs in real life. Not just a few 'perverts'. I wish it wasn't such a widespread practice and I think that is a problem, but it's the fact of how it is today. (No, lots of people doing it doesn't make it ok, but it DOES make it the NORM - among that group of people). To me, this is a point that matters, which hasn't been brought up enough.

Among the texting community, it isn't unusual. I think Weiner was trying to fit in with the 'cool kids' of that community. That isn't unusual either. Everybody and every PR firm pushing a brand wants to fit in with that community (yes, he did it the wrong way, granted).

Point 2: He has probably taken lots of jokes about his physique (and his name) in his lifetime... 'weak jokes', 'little jokes', etc. He very likely wanted to show that in fact he has a much better body than one would guess. Someone on here even said he was 'ripped'. I think that's what he wanted known and wanted to show. Was it worth it? No, of course not. Was it inappropriate considering his office? Yes. But on a human level, it's understandable.

Bottom line, he wanted to fit in and be cool among the group he considered cool - the texting, tech-savvy, physically attractive younger set. I for one can understand that motivation on his part. (I didn't say I feel that way, I mean that I can empathize with HIS possible motivation - strong enough to lead him to do this.) Add to that, I didn't know before how isolated and almost shunned he is (and was before this) among his 'colleages'.

I am not condoning it, but I don't think the guy should be crucified for what so many people do, who are all allowed to go about their lives and they expect to be able to do just that. Yes, I know he's in public office and that makes it different, but come on, all of those thousands of other people if discovered would probably be fired too, or be in some other kind of serious hot water with their wives etc.

Those are just a couple of points I haven't seen raised yet.


p.s. It just might make him MORE popular with those sexting younger people, even some who wouldn't have voted for him before - you never know. Again, that doesn't make it a good idea or ok, it's just the other side of the coin.

[seabeyond]

1. pervy, Yes, it was creepy, cheesy, and tacky. Yes, it was stupid beyond belief

all those things. about wraps it up for me, BUT

even among the young, when married, it is damaging and not so acceptable or the norm. the young, that are playing this game are generally single. married brings in a whole other issue and even the young are not doing so well with this play, when trying to establish a marriage...

that is all

[Skinner]

2. Among this demographic you speak of...

"people who text, tweet, video message, and facebook ... especially youngish ones"

is this considered acceptable behavior for someone who is married or in a committed/exclusive relationship (if done with someone outside the committed/exclusive relationship)?

[PeaceNikki]

3. In addition, people with a lick of common sense only engage in this behavior with people they know

and trust... or they do it anonymously.

[HipChick]

4. Define 'acceptable'..?

I doubt it is acceptable to the spouse/SO who is in the partnership..but there is a large demographic, but I think trends to being older. I have to say I travelled extensively for biz, and as a young,professional woman, would often be approached by males,many of the demographic older married male - they could compartmentalize their behavior - and I think this is the same psychology at play

[Waiting For Everyman]

5. In a sense, the fact that it's widespread means that it is accepted/acceptable

among that large number people who do it. Then again if it's discovered, I'm sure it is not acceptable.

I don't do it (I'm also a boomer), so I'm not one of that group. But I am aware of how widespread it is, by people who say they do it. My ballpark guess, fwiw, would be that somewhere between 1/2 to 1/3 of people who text, also sext. Maybe someone would know better than me what the number of sexters is, but I know it's a sizable percentage.

[seabeyond]

8. if you will do research

you will also learn an increase between 50-60% (i think the number is 57%) walk into marriage counselors offices dealing with this issue.

of course there is the increase in people doing this with the accessibility within the comfort of their home. that is one of the problems. in the past, the availibility was not there.

[HipChick]

20. I agree on those stats...the accessibility...and using anonymous ID's to reduce being caught

Prior to internet...it was very widespread on BBS's..

[Skinner]

9. Sexting with strangers while in an exclusive relationshiop is widespread behavior?

Do you believe it is done by 1/3 to 1/2 of people who are in exclusive relationships?

And is it widely considered appropriate behavior?

[LynneSin]

17. I could care less if the guy was sexting

the lying; however, was an issue.

[yardwork]

12. I share this puzzlement. I'm surprised to learn this. I feel like having a talk with my teenagers.

I must be living under a rock because I had no idea that this was so prevalent.

[seabeyond]

i have been talking to my teenagers. and showing htem the results. they have

watched marriages break up because of this behavior. and read articles and studies about todays issues.

it matters, for kids to be educated and aware of this issue because it is their world and will effect their own personal future.

do talk.... it helps them to consider their lines drawn before confronted with it.

[Horse with no Name]

42. I did tell both of my daughters not to tweet their privates

I also posted it on their FB wall.;)

Their friends got a kick out of it.

[yardwork]

50. That's a good idea. Maybe I'll post that on my kids' walls.

I did talk with my younger son about it. He confirmed that "sexting" is common among morans but is not something he would do.

[obxhead]

6. It's the norm for married people who use social media to

send pictures of their privates to others?

I had no idea.

[KittyWampus]

10. He started when single. I think there is a definite addictive/compulsive component and that many

people engage in addictive behavior of some sort.

For some it may be more mundane shoe shopping or for others its time on DU.

Then there's behavior centering around sex. Etc. And it becomes a problem ending in self destructive behavior.

[obxhead]

31. Calling this a normal and commonplace occurrence is simply

Insane. There is no evidence to support the claim that a majority of social network users are posting their unmentionables online.

Addictions do exist however. In this case it's not about an addiction to sex chat. It's about the epic display of stupidity.

[Whisp]

49. I don't believe it either. don't think.

sounds like a bunch of crazy people took over the world.

hey ya'll, all penis and vaginas and boobs look generally the same. it's what between the ears that counts - but thats so prudish and old school.

I read some of Weiners sextext and it amazes me that people think this kind of talk is fun. it sounds so base and stupid. get some romance going at least, or some teasing. not like rutting pigs in swill.

o well, guess I just don't get it.

[hedgehog]

7. I think there are many people who behave this way in real life -

they flirt incessantly and use double entendres - I don't know - are they channeling the Rat Pack? Anyone who objects is an obvious Church Lady. Doing the same with social media is a simple extension. Sending photos is the equivalent of flashing someone, except the photo isn't as "real", so people don't give it the same significance.

The problem with social media is that the inanities of the moment are preserved for all time.

I guarantee a lot of politicians are nasty people in real life. I guarantee a lot of people do stupid things in their younger years, learn from their mistakes and move on. I hesitate to bring this up because I don't really want to start a sub-thread - but how would our lives be different if Ted Kennedy had resigned from the Senate and public life after any number of bad personal decisions?


Also - if you engage in this behavior in real life or on-line, now you know how it looks to other people.

[seabeyond]

11. behavior in real life or on-line, now you know how it looks to other people.

i have thought about this angle, and think it has to do with some posts. got a little chuckle with that thought

[klook]

13. Not everyone

exchanges emails with a porn star and then tells them to get assistance from his staff in lying about their exchanges.

I think the Weiner "scandal" is small potatoes compared to the actual crimes and philandering of so many Republicans. But let's not pretend that Weiner's behavior is typical or acceptable.

If Weiner has been spending a lot of time in online sex chat sessions and sending sexual messages to women he doesn't even know, he may have an addiction. If so, like the actor David Duchovny, he should admit that and get treatment for it -- not just to get the press and the rest of Congress off his back, but to get his shit together and move on to a brighter day when he can fulfill his incredible promise as a champion for progressive legislation.

I don't agree with those who say he should resign -- even though that may seem like the most expedient solution. If he resigns, are the Republicans going to shut up about him then? Ha!

But I do think he needs to take a long, hard look at himself (sorry, that came out wrong :P ) and deal with his problem.

[marions ghost]

45. +++100000

You said it. He should do a Duchovny and get his addiction under control.

[dkf]

14. So you think it is acceptable that you and I are having a political discussion

And all of a sudden I start making sexual innuendoes and send you a pic of an aroused body part?

Would you do that to someone on this forum?

[Waiting For Everyman]

18. Do you have a reading comprehension problem?

[ensho]

15. "just because they want to stick their heads in a furnace doesn't mean

you have to"

is something my mother used to say to me when I was a kid/teen and wanted to do something "everyone else was doing" and she thought I shouldn't do.

and is what I said to my boys when I was raising them.

[LynneSin]

16. For those of us upset this has absolutely NOTHING to do with what he tweeted

I really could care less about the sex habits; provided that it is 2 consenting adults.

Here's my problem.

He lied to us.

Sure he was scared shitless, he was a congressman and married. And like any kid with their 'hands caught in the cookie jar' so to speak, he looked for excuses to cover the fact that he was caught.

Because he lied - we defended him. We sat there and tried to figure out a zillion different ways to claim 'it wasn't him'. I mean even I started threads, we all started threads - we rushed out en masse to defend the guy. And what's worse - we defended him because the main man accusing him was Andrew Breibart, someone who many times has lied about liberals (re: ACORN and Shirly Sherrod). We figured a 'good liberal man' like Anthony Weiner would never ever stoop to the level of pond scum like Andrew Briebart. Because of that - we defended Weiner even more so.

And now we all kinda look a bit stupid. Briebart was right and get this, he's gonna remind us forever and a day that he's right ESPECIALLY when he pulls another stunt similiar to ACORN or Sherrod. And when he pulls a stunt like that the media will believe him without a doubt because at least once Breibert was 100% right with at least one sleezy story he tried to push in the media.

Finally, I don't think I would want Anthony Weiner as my representative although I wouldn't want him to resign unless we know 100% we can get another democrat to replace him. I mean that other guy in upstate NY was in one of the most red districts in the state and we were able to win that one last month. For me Weiner is spoilt goods - he broke our trust by lying and not sure how effective he could be with that hanging over his head. And sure Clinton was probably at his best after the Lewinsky scandal but Weiner is no Clinton - enough said.

So for those of you who think I'm upset he sent naked pictures, I think for myself and many of us it has nothing to do with what he did but the fact that he lied about it.

[frylock]

47. 100% agreement

[Shagbark Hickory]

19. 1. Point about the weiner story: He's doing his job. This behavior has not impacted his

job performance. Just the same as things I enjoy doing in my spare time (with the exception of my internet forum addiction) don't affect my job performance.

[PeaceNikki]

21. Yes, it certainly has impacted his job.

He was a spokesperson; our voice and he's screwed himself and us out of legitimacy. He's exercised ridiculously poor judgement and has changed the entire narrative of politics in this country. He's put the Democratic party on the defensive and squandered away the upper hand that we had on the Medicare issue.

[Skinner]

23. "This behavior has not impacted his job performance."

Are you sure about that? At the moment, he is kryptonite. For the foreseeable future, no other politician will want to be seen in public with this guy, let alone help his campaign, or ask for his support for an important piece of legislation. Probably half of his big donors are looking for somewhere else to send their money. No doubt, a number of formerly-reliable voters in his district are now open to voting for other people.

He is a politician. His success depends on his not being a laughingstock.

Sure, he can still go to the House of Representatives and vote on stuff. But that's *all* he's going to be doing for a while. This wound was entirely self-inflicted. His job is to exercise good judgment, and he failed spectacularly.

[KittyWampus]

26. He will also be facing a House Ethics Committee. And rightly so.

[Shagbark Hickory]

32. Yeah. Heaven forbid he use his office telephone for a personal call.

[Shagbark Hickory]

29. The voters in his district should be the ones to decide if he's able to exercise good ...

judgment on the matters that come up in his professional life.

He's only human and people can and do make mistakes in their private lives that while poor judgment, don't necessarily mean he makes poor judgments on a regular basis in his professional life.

RE being a laughing stock, I don't know that I'd agree with that. Some would say GW Bush, Sarah Palin, Sharon Angle, Bachman, etc are USDA grade A laughing stocks.

In time, this will blow over. Just like it did for Bill Clinton. (aka Big Dog)

[frazzled]

22. The NORM? No.

Here are the numbers:

There are, however, recent numbers on the prevalence of sexting among adults. In a May 2010 survey from the Pew Internet and American Life Project, 15 percent of adults said they had received "a sexually suggestive nude or nearly nude photo or video" on their cell phone, and 6 percent said they had sent such a text. In the 18-to-29 demographic, the numbers rose to 31 percent and 13 percent.
http://www.postandcourier.com/news/2011/jun/08/is-sexting-cheating/

So, for people of Weiner's age, 6% are sending such texts/pictures. In the 18 to 29 demographic, 13 percent are sending such texts/pictures. (That the receiving numbers are higher indicates the small number of pervs are sending them to multiple people.) Even for the young, this is clearly not the norm: 87% DON'T do it. You could also say that probably 13% of teenagers shoplift. Does it mean that is the norm and cool and that 46-year-old elected officials who supposedly represent the public trust should emulate such behavior? Jeebus.

This isn't even about sexting: it's about abusing one's public trust. A politician doesn't set up a Twitter account to serve as a pickup bar. It's an abuse of power. Read the young Washington college student's account today in the NYT: she was shocked that the Congressman, whom she began to follow because she admired his politics, suddenly started following her and sent an unsolicited picture. Shocked. She's 21. You don't fucking do that. It's unacceptable.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/09/nyregion/weiners-pattern-turning-political-admirers-into-online-pursuits.html?_r=1&hp

[Waiting For Everyman]

27. That may be so, but I suspect it's low.

I saw a study a while back, before this happened, with much different numbers but I had no reason to save it.

I can't prove it, but my own opinion would be that more of the people receiving sexts are not admitting to sending them as well. The numbers also depend on how the criteria was defined.

I used to think it was mostly teenagers doing this, but then again teenagers grow up and may continue to think it's no big deal (as they see it). I can only tell you that I see a whole lot of not particularly pervy people admitting to it, without my looking for it (online, in the news, and real life) - it just comes up a lot, and that says something.

[leveymg]

24. Point 1: Indict Clarence Thomas. Point 2: Indict Clarence Thomas.

[Waiting For Everyman]

28. Amen to that.

[formernaderite]

25. can you imagine being a 21 yr old receving a pic from a congressman?

what would you think? A man in a high position of power sends you an unsolicited crotch pic. You don't think that's an issue? Seems stalkerish and extremely creepy. Weiner himself admitted not being absolutely sure of the ages of the females, as he could only go on what they stated in their profiles. We all know that younger girls often join these sites and lie that they're older in order to join. I remember when myspace was the thing, my granddaughter had one and often got friend requests from older men... which she declined. But not every girl will.

[Waiting For Everyman]

30. Of course it's an issue.

I don't think crotch pics are ok, unsolicited or even if they are solicited. It's not acceptable communication to "send" anywhere under any circumstances in my book. But that's my opinion. People do it, is all I'm saying.

We're acting as if this is as rare as raincoat flashers in the park. It just isn't that rare and isolated of a practice anymore. It's done a lot. That doesn't excuse it, but it is relevant.

[formernaderite]

36. yes but receiving that from someone in a position of power

is vastly different. And I don't think most people Weiner's age are engaged in that sort of thing.

[marions ghost]

46. It is stalkerish

and that's the most problematic part. But usually these people do not want to act on it -- this is called "hands-off paraphilia." It is a treatable addiction.

"Exhibitionism is a mental disorder characterized by a compulsion to display one's genitals to an unsuspecting stranger. The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders , also known as the DSM-IV-TR, classifies exhibitionism under the heading of the "paraphilias," a subcategory of sexual and gender identity disorders. The paraphilias are a group of mental disorders marked by obsession with unusual sexual practices or with sexual activity involving nonconsenting or inappropriate partners (such as children or animals). The term paraphilia is derived from two Greek words meaning "outside of" and "friendship-love." In the United States and Canada, the slang term "flasher" is often used for exhibitionists."

http://beyondpsychology.org/disorderlinks/Exhibitionism.shtml

[Waiting For Everyman]

33. SOME INFO ON NUMBERS OF SEXTERS (as opposed to just my guess on it)

1.

Results of this Study
Frequency
66% Sexted

* When looking at the entire group of 323 people, 66% sexted.
* When considering only teens, 13-19 year olds, 65.5% sexted.
* When considering only young adults, 20-26 year olds, 73.5% sexted.

Discussion of Results

This is the first psychological study on sexting. The frequency of sexting in the general population is quite large (66%) and it seems that this number may be an under-reporting of sexting. Like in hazing, many young people do not recognize their own behavior as sexting; even though a clear definition was provided. Upon interview, some subjects did not identify themselves as sexters, although they were involved in sexting behavior.

The analysis of power scores was also significant and an unexpected finding. For the group as a whole, sexters were more likely to strive for power and control than non-sexters. This was the hypothesis, and the reason it is important is it seemed that the need for power might be motivating people to sext. The link between power and social status was implied.

However, more importantly, the way that the age groups viewed sexting is even more interesting. When considering young people (13-26), we find that they do not have a difference in their power scores, implying that sexting does not relate to control or social status in this age group. Surprisingly, for the rest of the group, it seems that power or dominance is a factor.

The difference in motivation of sexters, due to age, may be an indication of a generation gap, a sexual revolution which is presently occurring.

http://www.realpsychology.com/content/tools-life/sextingis-it-all-about-power

2.

Psychology professor Michelle Drouin has studied sexting behavior among the college-aged population and found that around half of people in committed relationships had sent a sext photo to their partners, and two-thirds had engaged in sext messaging.

“It’s a part of our dating culture to be doing this,” said Drouin, who teaches at Indiana University-Purdue University, Fort Wayne.

http://news.discovery.com/tech/are-adults-having-good-sexts-110514.html

3.

The online predator mentality of the 1990s is giving way to the digital life, and today's youth are living it. The 1 in 5 teens that sext today will be the 1 in 5 adults who will have sexted as teens. As shocking as it is today, this shock will lessen over time. So, then, what communication norms will develop within this generation for responding to, and making sense of, what today we see as shocking, embarrassing, or even sexually explicit texts?

http://www.natcom.org/CommCurrentsArticle.aspx?id=891

4.

30 Percent of young people report having been involved in some type of naked sexting.
Incidence overall is higher among young adults 18-24 with 33 percent than teenagers aged 14-17 with 24 percent..

http://www.pcsndreams.com/Pages/More_Sexting_Statistics.html

In a worrying and a dangerous trend, more and more teenagers are sharing sexual pictures of themselves via texts and on the Internet.

A new survey has revealed that a huge number of young people have been sent a sex text or 'Sext', and the images are of both boys and girls exposing themselves or involved in sexual acts.

snip

The survey of 2,094 youngsters in England found that it was most often not strangers who were sending the messages, and that seven out of 10 of the 11-18-year-olds surveyed said that they knew the sender personally.

http://news.oneindia.in/2009/08/04/surveyshows-teenagers-sharing-sexual-pictures-via-texts-on.html

(Bolds mine, because they relate to my point in OP.)

Some more articles:

http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2011/06/06/sexting-over-forty/

http://www.internetsafety101.org/mobilestatistics.htm


The point is, there is a wide range of numbers, but in any case it's a substantial chunk of those who use today's technology to communicate.

[spin]

34. Very interesting. I don't "sext", I don't even text ...

but then I am 65.

[seabeyond]

35. again.... says nothing

about married doing it with strangers. the young are exploring sexuality and are single. of course it will be higher. and big deal if it is happening between hubby and wife. they used the phone, notes and poloroid before the net and cells,

[Waiting For Everyman]

37. So the truth is, he's being driven from office for "infidelity" ONLINE.

He touched no one, remember. (That we know of.)

Seabeyond, the fact is that a lot of people are doing this. That's all. It isn't a rare event. It's becoming mainstream, as a matter of fact. But a lot of us older people don't know that, and are much more shocked by it. I've just been surprised that this point hasn't been brought up more.

My first reaction was, "he would NEVER be that nuts", but the more I think about it I can understand a little better what might have led him into this. As for the lying, I think "I panicked" says it all. Continuing it so much was another bad move.

But so far, this is virtual, online or by phone, with no one underage that we know of, and no laws broken yet. The reaction has been extreme for what it actually is, and imo, driven by shock and embarrassment about the pictures themselves... even though "it's the lies" is a common statement. I don't believe that, frankly.

If that were the case, Clarence Thomas should already be gone, as levymg has pointed out, along with every Repub in Congress who lie every day, every time they speak. We're enraged about this one lie instead of a mountain of lies. That just isn't true. We're lying ourselves to say that.

[seabeyond]

39. i am not that old, i am not that unaware, i am not shocked at all and i am not isolated

from the younger generation. they are very much a part of my like. most all i have around me are people under 23.

it is not going ok in marriages and relationships. and it is hurting people. more time goes by (has only been about a decade or more) the more problems we will continue to see as the studies and numbers come out.

make the kids aware. let them be informed. like we do with sex and drugs... so they are prepared.

i am not calling for the man to resign

i am saying, a grown up, an adult knows his/her responsibility and meets it or gets his ass fired.

if this touched the corporate world, then the employee would be fired. if a teacher or others positions interacting with kids then they would be fired. as adults, we know what is expected and allowed, we play along accordingly or we suffer the repercussions. i teach my kids that. i was raised that way. why are we expecting special here or less?

[Waiting For Everyman]

40. I agree with you.

I'm only saying that the boundaries are shifting as we speak. Like it or not. What's acceptable and expected behavior is changing, so I guess in time it won't matter that people are doing things that are career-killing now.

In 20 years people may look back in disbelief at this "scandal".

[seabeyond]

41. or

it could say. man we really fucked up with our irresponsible and immature behavior and we need to rein it in or tone it down cause it is causing us as a society a hell of a price.

[Waiting For Everyman]

43. That's possible too.

I'd prefer that, but I think it's less likely.

[seabeyond]

44. one thing in history we count on, cyclical.

my oldest son and i read an article on certain generations dating way back shifting into predictable behaviors do to influence and lessons learned from previous generations.

you are already seeing it in marriages. rates of divorce dropping in certain groups. they learn, they adjust for optimum. until that goes to extreme and another adjustment is needed.

i have told the kids the upside, is they are just young enough they are learning by watching and listening to avoid traps and may get in on the time when things are better. i saw years ago this mass experiment with internet, break up of family, and whole shift in america's economy and structure being done to the kids. who the fuck knows where or what it is doing, but effecting it certainly is. from my POV, there has been no greater amount of the unknown givin to our kids in development.

i think it says something that 43% of japanese males between 18 and 29? think sex is icky. and 58% of females. i think that tells us something. kids today are turning away from sex. who knows where this will go, but we would never have predicted that outcome

[PeaceNikki]

51. People with a lick of common sense only engage in this behavior with people they know

and trust... or they do it anonymously.

[Waiting For Everyman]

38. Kick for those who commented earlier, who may be interested in the numbers.

See post #33 above.

:kick:

[lunatica]

48. This is how I feel about the whole thing

People's sex lives are utterly uninteresting and even boring to me. I don't care. Titillation bores the hell out of me. I can literally feel my eyes glazing over when people want to talk about their sex lives, or anyone else's for that matter.