Warning: Repeat of 2010 on the horizon

[franzia99]

Unemployment is above 9% and will still be above 8% at least (economists are predicing 8.5% for 2012) come November 2012. Dems have the presidency and senate and will probably get more blame than the republicans will. Dems either need to go all out and do what needs to be done (or be replaced in primaries with dems who will), or at least show they're trying, or there's going to be a repeat of 2010. Ignore or berate all you want, but that's a recipe for 2012 failure.

PS. I was among those predicting the 2010 shellacking. There's just nothing you can say to people to make a horrible situation okay. Action, not words is what's required. Ignore at your peril.

[CC]

1. Dems should start laying the

blame at the feet of the GOP. They are the ones that control the House and half of the Senate.

[franzia99]

3. I agree they need to fight for control of the message.

[ShockediSay]

64. Gotta fight the Right Wing Propaganda machine or lose to fascism

Right Wing
Super Wealthy Funded
Corporation
Controlled
Media
Propaganda Pumping
w/ Scapegoating
&Union Busting
=Fascist Regime

President Obama! You can't continually try to compromise with those who are Big Corporate Money Greed Controlled

[Vincardog]

5. That would require the "LEADERSHIP" to FIGHT for OUR INTERESTS maybe at the expense of their own

reelection FUNDS. The corporate parasites will not allow any real democrats with principles to get ANY COVERAGE

[franzia99]

7. I wonder how we can change that. With the internet we should be able to find a way to put up

candidates without huge donor support.

[Vincardog]

8. Which is why the PTB are fighting NET NEUTRALITY now and we should fight back

[franzia99]

9. I agree

[GSLevel9]

32. won't work...

Obama had 2 years with 100% Dem support and still holds 2/3 pieces of the puzzle. The American people aren't about to blame the Center for the Quarterbacks intereception.

[Le Taz Hot]

35. People are sick and tired of one side

laying the blame on the other. That is exactly what they should NOT do. What they need is action, well, something other than policies that benefit the top 2%.

[DCBob]

2. Thanks for the warning..

but at this point the best approach is to simply vote for the Democrat no matter what, because if Republicans keep control of the House and take back the Senate this country is totally and completely screwed. You agree right?

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Le Taz Hot]

39. My vote requires more than a particular letter

behind the name. The Founders intended on the people holding their elected officials accountable -- I'm sure as hell not giving that up in the name of blind partisanship.

[DCBob]

40. That's a noble attitude but there is this critical practical matter of congressional control..

which could fall completely into GOP hands if Democrats dont vote for "D"s. Clearly there are some D's that dont act like Democrats all the time but if they caucus with the Dems then that's a critical additional vote for control.

[Le Taz Hot]

42. Do you understand that that argument was

first made to me a good 40 years ago? It's also been countered, literally, millions of times. What it comes down to is that partisans DEMAND the vote and non-partisans insist upon their vote being earned. The end.

[DCBob]

44. Of course votes need to be earned but sometimes one has to look at the big picture..

clearly this is one of those times.

[Le Taz Hot]

47. My votes have to be earned. The end.

[DCBob]

49. Yeah, I got that from your last reply.. I was just trying to clarify my viewpoint..

and that of many other sensible minded Democrats who dont want the GOP to run roughshod over this country. I agree with you up to point but I think your approach is better served during the primary process and not during the general election when there is so much at stake.

No need to respond. I think I know what it is anyway.

[MilesColtrane]

52. It appears that your three options are; vote Republican, vote third party, or don't vote at all.

So what are you going to do?

[Le Taz Hot]

54. Actually, I have two options:

vote Democrat or vote Third Party. Beyond that would be a violation of DU rules, but you knew that, didn't you?

[MilesColtrane]

56. How are you holding a Democrat you are dissatisfied with accountable if you vote for him?

[Le Taz Hot]

59. Cute.

But ya gotta make 'em harder than that. I have two Senators. Barbara Boxer gets my vote.

[MilesColtrane]

61. OK, I get it.

You don't want to talk about it.

[Scuba]

6. Start fighting by becoming a voter registrar. Contact your municipal clerk!!!

[fredamae]

10. Seriously, you believe given the

actions and votes taken, statements made and reception the pubs are getting at home that voters don't understand who is driving this crises and the barriers Dems/Pres facing at every turn?

I'm not arguing, I am somewhat bewildered. It's so obvious to me and the people on the street around here.

[franzia99]

11. Were you bewildered in 2010 also?

I knew the car in the ditch and blaming republicans thing wasn't going to fly. The fact of the matter was that we didn't see dems in the news pushing plans that would fix the economy. Also, when someone is so miserable because of the bad economy they want to lash out at someone and they aren't going to accept lame excuses. Blaming repubs can work ONLY if dems are constantly pushing policies that repubs block. I don't see that happening, so no dice.

[fredamae]

14. No, I expected exactly what we got in 2010.

It is the experience we have had since that causes me to believe that voters won't try the same "solution" Again. It has basically been a traditional swing over the years--however I also believe the electorate is much more informed than they were in 2010 and much smarter about what lawmakers are doing. I think they (we) are pretty pissed off.

[franzia99]

19. That repubs have control of the house now ads a wrinkle to the issue. Still, I think there'll be

anti-incumbent sentiment. Dems are more likely to suffer from that since they have the presidency and senate. I will say though that Scott Walker and Paul Ryan's bs is helping the dems' chances, but that's not something to hang your hat on. Bottom line is that dems need to do a lot more to fix the economy.

[fredamae]

20. ...And gov christie, lepage, scott, brewer, otter,

daniels, kasich, snyder, perry,, etc, etc, etc.

I just don't agree, not this time, not In these times.

[franzia99]

24. Ignore at your peril. Besides, doing the right thing and ensuring reelection require the same action

Fixing the unemployment problem.

[fredamae]

33. No, "everything for the Dems" does NOT hinge on the Republicans

Ending Legislative Procedural Obstruction to allow Dems Jobs Bills to go thru. All that would do is Help the republicans.

Bringing food and fuel speculators on wall street under control is Also being obstructed by the pubs and If they started a bi partisan effort toward reining in that problem? All that Will do is help the pubs get reelected.
I don't see any of that happening until late spring/summer 2012 and the crumbs the pubs allow then will be pitiful but notable amongst "less advanced thinkers".

What the Dem Lawmakers And the Dem Electorate Must do is Message and Educate; We are well on our way With the republicans Help.

We know the difference between seeing a "dem majority" in numbers on paper and what the minority party (repubs) IS doing (procedural Obstruction) to "monkey-wrench" the process to intentionally Defeat and Obstruct the Good the Dems are trying to accomplish!
CSPAN is the Best for Real news. You can see and hear "it" happening in real time sans MSM "influence".

[fredamae]

41. Case in Point.........

"FAIL! GOP Rep asked if David Koch owns him, gives Worst. Answer. Ever"
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/06/03/981796/-FAIL!-GOP-Rep-asked-if-David-Koch-owns-him,-gives-Worst-Answer-Ever

These types of politicians usurp democracy from the process. It's Not the Dems, It's Greed powered by the pubs(aka Koch Industries)! Period.

You see, the Electorate SEES this in Real time (aka: FACTS) and All the nasty ads and testimonials stating what we see isn't really What we see; Will Not Help-Not This Time.

[obxhead]

15. By my personal observations 90% or better of the American voting

public don't have one fucking clue as to what is really happening or what their representatives are pushing for.

They vote blindly for the most part, usually based on what their parents, churches, or favorite personality tells them to.

[PufPuf23]

12. I have voted for the Democratic Party candidates all my voting life

with several exception for Independents and Greens in county elections.

The GOP is sabotaging but the Democratic Party and WH does not scream the obvious deliberate undermining the better interests of the USA for future partisan political payoff.

Watching some cable TV this week, I came to the realization that a GOP wing nut - all mentioned - could win in 2012.

This does not effect me locally and I am a certain vote for POTUS Obama in 2012 if he is the Democratic Party nominee.

The USA is far too militarized and in the grasp of a small minority of wealth and power, many more global in interest than USA.

A WPA/CCC/CETA or the like program has been obvious but not even considered for jobs. The GOP and Richard Nixon did CETA (and price-controlled and rationed gasoline in the 70s).

The WH, Congress, and USSC do not support prosecution of financial, monopoly, war, and political process crimes nor crimes against the Constitution, except for wasting time and resources and PR on small fry scapegoats and peripheral crimes (eg sex embarrassments).

[FreakinDJ]

13. I was among those predicting the 2010 shellacking too

and was lambasted for it

[franzia99]

17. When a group silences internal criticism they're vulnerable to outside threats

Dem apologists should not criticize members of their own party for pointing out what's being done wrong and predicting losses if improvements are made. If we don't listen to criticism from within we can look forward to losing. Your experience is an example of that.

[treestar]

16. If the voters are such dummies that they put the Rs back in in

2010 because the Dems did not fix the problems the Rs caused in two years, would it not follow that they are dumb enough to blame the Rs for not fixing things in the next two years and go back to the Dems?

[franzia99]

18. People are angry right now. Kind of like wounded animals that want to lash out.

They just want solutions and are not interested in hearing excuses.

[fredamae]

36. There is a Huge difference between a lame excuse

and providing fact. HUGE!

[JoePhilly]

37. Then the people of our country are too stupid and will get what they deserve.

[fredamae]

21. Not to mention, it's no secret now

the reason the Dems couldn't get "it" done was a Record number of Filibusters, since 2006-thus allowing a Minority republican body actual Control of the Senate.

This and much more will be even more engrained into the electorate by 2012. The Dems don't even need to write a Single ad, the pubs at both state and fed levels have done that already.
No amount of (citizens united) dirty ads/money is going to have any degree of influence..not this time.

[Marr]

48. So in other words, "where else you gonna go, suckers"?

That's kind of what's happened to our political establishment. The steps that would actually fix our economy are considered taboo by both political parties, so apparently they'll just pass offices back and forth forever, while collecting their checks from Wall Street.

[SidDithers]

22. I don't believe you predicted anything in 2010...

You sound like just another Monday morning quarterback to me.

Sid

[franzia99]

25. Oh yes I did, a lot of people did. I wasn't a poster here then, but I did among my friends.

[fredamae]

38. Actually, the outcome of the 2010 election

wasn't all that difficult to "predict".

[sendero]

23. If I could only believe..

.... that having Dems in control would be enough better to notice, I would give a damn.

As it is, I could care less who is elected to national office. Neither party is doing JACK SHIT to solve the problems the people face.

As amusing as all of this is, it really doesn't matter. Both parties are owned by the oligargy and they could give two shits about you and me.

Deal with it, because that is the way it is.

[franzia99]

26. The way to deal is by holding the party accountable to the ppl they represent.

[sendero]

28. Holding them accountable..

.. in a two-party system is problematic, and generally involves voting for the other party. Hence my dilemma.

By voting for Dems and getting a Dem president, a huge majority in the house and a slim majority in the senate, I expected to move beyond Bushville. But the country did not. And I'm not getting over it, I just don't care any more.

[franzia99]

29. We need a movement like the tea party within the dem party

I think a good enough web based strategy could make it possible for people to win dem primaries without having support from wealthy donors.

[sendero]

30. We need it..

.. but the pain level isn't quite high enough yet. It will be soon.

[moondust]

27. Larry Kudlow: "Business, Not Government, Create Jobs"

http://biggovernment.com/lkudlow/2010/07/03/business-not-government-create-jobs/

Larry Kudlow: "Obama's Job Recession"

http://finance.townhall.com/columnists/larrykudlow/2011/06/04/obamas_job_recession


So which is it? Obama is the government. If the gov't does not create jobs then you can't blame Obama for not creating jobs, no?

Right-wing cognitive dissonance?

[franzia99]

31. A lot of right wing talking points sound like the product of business PR campaigns to get favorable

legislation passed for themselves, like tax cuts and deregulation. You can't take their bs seriously.

[Le Taz Hot]

34. The Dems need to remember what they're

SUPPOSED to be. I guarantee you that people are fed up with BOTH parties right now and Obama has done NOTHING but alienate his base and no, the blind-supporters are NOT his base -- there aren't enough of them.

[DevonRex]

43. Ignoring you creates no peril. Get over yourself.

[TheKentuckian]

50. Only if you are certain that the ignored's votes are not in peril.

Obama only beat McShame by 7 with a strong wind at his back and a somewhat depressed TeaPubliKlan vote.

Seven is pretty landslidish in modern Presidential elections but a little slippage is all it takes to make the results flip with the usual cheating.

You also forget that much of what you think can safely be ignored contains real solutions that damn well should not be ignored.

I would also caution that ignoring liberals is not how Obama got elected so where does the confidence in this "strategy" come into play anyway? Trying to replay the 90's? I don't know that Perot is going to split the conservative vote and allow a winner with well under 50% again nor will we have a big ass bubble to make folks feel they are doing okay and will be doing better for as far as the eye can see.

There is a peril for dead certain, the peril of trying to skate by on recycled failed and lousy ideas that rob the poor and working people to enrich the wealthy in a religious like devotion to a bunch of counter-productive nonsense.

Ignoring those not fixated and committed to a bunch of useless beltway common wisdom is a danger to elections, the party, and the well being of the people of our nation and many millions around the globe.

The official state secular religion is a lie and continued observance will destroy broad prosperity and self determination.

[rusty fender]

58. Wow! Excellent post!

...straight to the heart of the matter. Obama is not interested in going outside the Beltway box to start our country on a real recovery, while the Repubs like things just as they are. What the hell do we do?:shrug:

[alcibiades_mystery]

45. Bookmarking

I will bring this one back on election night so everybody can see it.

:rofl:

[JTFrog]

46. Coming from someone who said he hopes they lose...

:eyes:

[Greybnk48]

51. Bullsh*t n/t

[Exultant Democracy]

53. It seems to me that the rules have gone out the window. But an unemployment rate this high

it has historically gone very poorly for the party in power.

[Arkana]

55. News flash: You didn't need to be a genius to predict 2010's results.

And you have no earthly idea what will happen in 2012. It's a political eternity away.

I'm really sick of the OMG SOUND THE MARMALARM bullshit. Should we keep an eye on what happens? Yes. Should we be running around like chickens with our heads cut off? No.

Confidence is good. It's OK. It's why Republicans beat us so often--because we have no confidence in our agenda or abilities and they have every confidence in theirs.

[cliffordu]

57. Thanks for your insight and acumen and your undeniable veracity.

What the fuck did you actually do to prevent that 'shellacking''?

I mean besides bloviate on a message board?

What will you do for 2012 besides prognosticate?

[RagAss]

60. My 11 year old predicted the 2010 shellacking !

[bvar22]

62. Harry Truman predicted the 2010 disaster, and the coming 2012 disaster.

"I've seen it happen time after time. When the Democratic candidate allows himself to be put on the defensive and starts apologizing for the New Deal and the Fair Deal, and says he really doesn't believe in them, he is sure to lose. The people don't want a phony Democrat. If it's a choice between a genuine Republican, and a Republican in Democratic clothing, the people will choose the genuine article, every time; that is, they will take a Republican before they will a phony Democrat, and I don't want any phony Democratic candidates in this campaign."
---President Harry Truman

QED:2010


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will stand up for working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone


"By their works you will know them."

[WillyT]

63. + 1,000,000,000... What You And Harry Said !!!

:hi:

:kick: