NY Times and Repubs collude in desperate attempt to pit young vs old!

[annabanana]

The only hope for Repubs in the upcoming election season is to make parents and grandparents face off against their kids in the Kill Medicare dispute. The article in today's Times is a heavy handed thumb on the scale.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/04/us/politics/04elders.html?_r=1&ref=us

Between Young and Old, a Political Collision

In dozens of interviews over three weeks in this rapidly aging suburb of Denver, people talked about a collision of interests, and perhaps even more crucial, of generations. On one side are younger voters who are championing cuts in spending; on the other, older ones who want to retain the services they counted on getting when they retired.

Specific government programs like Medicare are at issue. Beyond that, many people said they perceived a deeper debate about fairness, equity and — at its core — starkly different visions of the nation’s future and how public resources should be allotted in a time of straitened circumstances.

Nowhere in this article is there any sense that old people and young people may actually know each other, or in any way might be concerned about each other's welfare. I certainly want my kids to have medicare available to them in it's current, single payer form when they get older, and I believe they don't want my health or my mother's jeopardized in any rash cutting plan.

Keep spinning, you f*#kers.

[LiberalLoner]

1. Exactly! I do not know of ANY young people who want Medicare, SS, etc. to go away. Maybe a few

stupid young Republicans want that, I don't know. But I mean...how many young Republicans are there these days? Aren't they kind of a vanishing species? Every Republican I've ever met is over 50. :shrug:

[Coyote_Bandit]

2. Must be a function of where you live

Here in red state hell there are lots of Republicans undr 50 - with lots of crazy ideas.

[annabanana]

3. Crazy enough to eliminate their own future health care?. . n/t

[Coyote_Bandit]

6. Yes - idealogues and religious kooks

people who are too stupid to assess political issues in terms of how they will directly impact themselves, their families and others.

[Scuba]

4. They've been spreading the lie that "there will be no SS for you"...

...for a couple decades now. It's had a chance to sink in. They're trying to capitalize on their efforts.



They fail to understand a fundamental difference between Americans at-large and Republicans: Americans care about their children, and their neighbors children, and their neighbors, etc.

[targetpractice]

5. Nice insight...

I've assumed that Ryan's youth, inexperience, or possible narcissism contributed his omission of any social and familial considerations in his budget ideas... Ask ANY grandparent today what they would think if Medicare were taken off the table for their grandkids. Most grandparents I know are REALLY smitten with their grandkids.

Or, maybe Paul Ryan doesn't know any old people himself.

[frazzled]

7. Huh?

This story is essentially suggesting that older Americans--who traditionally tend more Republican--are turning more angry at Republican plans, and that the recent NY election might portend something similar nationally.

So why would you say the NYT is colluding with Republicans?

[Taitertots]

8. Young people are not happy about paying for old people's health care while they have none

Give young people health care under a single payer system and watch the problem disappear.

Don't be surprised if young people choose to stop paying for old people when they have the ability to make it happen.

[whathehell]

9. I disagree...Without Medicare, the money for their parents, if not grandparents,

will be coming out of THEIR pockets...and that will add up to being

much more than the tax allotment they now pay for their parents' Medicare.

[Taitertots]

10. I disagree because not everyone would have to pay out of pocket

Only the people whose parents lived beyond 65 and didn't save sufficient money during that period. Even then, the bill would be going to the parents, and the children would have the option of paying.

We need universal single payer because the currently system is inherently unfair and is certain to cause opposition. Currently, the young have to pay money for old people to get health care, while they have no access to health care.

[juajen]

32. Wrong

My husband was disabled when he was 42 yrs. old. SS has been paying him and our family for the past 26 years. Would have been very interesting to see my children having to pay this. Additionally, I am almost seventy and SS is still supporting me. This safety net is as important to young people as it is to old. Most Americans know this, love SS and support it. Don't believe the crap and for God's sake don't fall in the trap. They do not want to pay back SS the over two trillion dollars they owe and want control of those taxes in the future.

[Taitertots]

36. How many working young people support him that don't have health care?

Why should they work to give you benefits that they are unable to get, especially when a leading reason they can't get health care is the parasitic system (corporations and government, Not you or your husband) that you support. When they stop paying for him so they can pay for themselves are you going to bemoan them for wanting less than what you have been given?

Most Americans love and support SS. Which is exactly why it must be expanded into universal single payer health care within a welfare state. We should also stop pretending the trust fund is real and just accept that we will have to continue paying out of pocket and deal with the increased costs directly. The money is gone and taxes must go up to cover the difference.

[my2sense]

12. bingo!

[whathehell]

14. Young working people generally get health insurance with their jobs...and if theyre' not working

they don't have to worry about paying payroll taxes at all.

[Taitertots]

15. What planet do you live on that young people "generally get" health insurance?

It certainly isn't earth. I would love to live there because I wouldn't die penniless if I happen to get sick. All while I have to pay to make sure that other people stay healthy.

[whathehell]

16. How about dropping the snark?

Except for temporary work, Every job that my husband and I worked in the last twenty years offered health insurance.

[Taitertots]

18. Good to hear you were lucky.... What are the hundreds of thousands of unlucky people supposed to do?

Why should I drop the "snark" when these policies could cause hundreds of thousands of young people to die penniless?

[whathehell]

20. Check this study

which claims that health insurance is offered to sixty three percent of American workers.

It's not enough, but it is still a majority.


http://www.kff.org/insurance/snapshot/Health-Benefit-Offer-Rates-and-Employee-Earnings.cfm

[Taitertots]

21. 63%, people don't generally get health insurance at their job

It is just enough to keep those people voting down anything that would benefit the less fortunate.

[whathehell]

25. So you're saying the study is wrong?

[Taitertots]

27. No, I'm saying that 63% doesn't qualify as "generally".

That leaves a full third of the labor force to die penniless. That is way over 30,000,000 people.

Not to mention that your study doesn't break down the numbers by age. However, knowing that young workers make less than older workers, the data shows that more than 37% of young workers don't get health care from work.

[whathehell]

29. I suppose that's true, but we're getting close to dealing with semantics

since 63 percent does comprise a majority.

I support single payer health insurance and do not support employers failing

to give all employees insurance with the job (When I started working

in the early seventies, health insurance with full time jobs

was a "given")....Having said that, the "die penniless"

prediction is a bit over the top, since the young worker

is almost bound to change jobs in his/her lifetime.

[Taitertots]

33. It isn't semantics, it is making sure we are discussing the same thing

If we are trying to discuss whether or not young people generally get health care from their employers, it is worth discussing how many would need to get insurance to be considered generally. 63% doesn't count as "generally" to me. Edit: it is a value judgment, but I think it would need to be in excess of 80% at the very minimum to be considered generally.

I support universal single payer insurance. But I know that it will never be a reality as long as enough people benefit from denying care to everyone else. People will inevitably view a system that deprives them of care to serve other people as inherently unfair. While the people who benefit (the rich and old tea baggers) vehemently oppose beneficial change.

[madfloridian]

30. Are they willing to take their parents into their homes, pay their medical bills...

and take off work to help them in and out of bed when they get helpless?

[Taitertots]

34. I did that when my Mom had cancer

You are saying it like caring for one's parents is a bad thing.

[pnwmom]

11. Yeah, a class war is abhorrent, but an age war between grandparents and grandchildren

is just fine.

:sarcasm:

[socialist_n_TN]

13. I swear, I don't know why ANYBODY would be surprised

at this tactic by the capitalists. Dividing the working class is what they DO and what they've ALWAYS done. The divisors are different, but the tactic is ALWAYS the same. Hell, I saw this one coming a year ago and posted it on DU.

[Le Taz Hot]

17. This happens right on this board.

How many times have we heard the youngin's blame the Boomers for every problem known to mankind. Don't be fooled. This country isn't broke, it's just that all the wealth is concentrated in the top 2% of the population. Don't fall for the "we can only fund one thing -- either education or retirement." It's bullshit. Seniors need to join the fight for better education and youngins need to fight for the preservation of SS & Medicare.

[socialist_n_TN]

19. And as a socialist, I believe in fighting for BOTH

of those things, education AND retirement.

And I would love to see more young people involved in my area. Our MoveOn group is almost ALL at least middle aged and maybe even shading towards seniorhood.

[xchrom]

22. indeed. nt

[franzia99]

23. Meh, I care more about investment in this country than medicare and SS...

When I'm old enough to need that stuff my life is going to suck regardless. I want aspirational spending (ie r & d, education), not maintenance.

That said, I think both programs are important, I just begrudge the constant focus on it and the lack of sufficient spending on infrastructure and education.

[franzia99]

24. It's also funny that you think the NYtimes would collude with repubs...

Given that repubs are always bitching about how that paper is too liberal. Repub and NYtimes don't really go together.

[underpants]

26. Really? The War on Iraq would not have been possible without the NY Times

See Judith Miller's (now a "Fox News analyst" ) articles that were above the fold on Sunday morning and then quoted by Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, etc. on Sunday morning talk shows.

You don't know what you are talking about.

but Frank Stallone does:

Well, you can tell by the way I use my walk,
I'm a woman's man, no time to talk.
Music loud and women warm.
I've been kicked around since I was born.
And now it's all right, it's O.K.
And you may look the other way.
We can try to understand
The New York Times' effect on man.
Whether you're a brother
Or whether you're a mother,
You're stayin' alive, stayin' alive.

[coalition_unwilling]

28. Except when it comes to attacking countries based on LIES. Then

tbe NYTimes and Repukes go perfectly well together. Sorry about that, 1,000,000+ dead Iraqi civilians.

[underpants]

31. Thank you - leak info to Miller, she sleeps it onto the front page, quote your own link the next day

act like you have a F-ing clue as to what you are talking about
Russert et al lap it up as making sense and let you elaborate on your own hoax

Give Saddam and sons 48 hours to leave
find out he is moving a Billion dollars on trucks (the official reason given for jump starting the war)
attack

"fantastic display of American firepower" Lester Holt narrates limb severing explosions seen from traffic cams in Baghdad.

[Citizen Worker]

35. Imagine if Medicare would have been the cornerstone of Obama's health care plan. This strategy of

pitting young against old would be moot. Looks like the chess player was lured into a well designed trap and now can't get out.