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Arne Duncan criticizes Diane Ravitch...says she is insulting teachers, principals, and students.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 05:04 PM
Original message
Arne Duncan criticizes Diane Ravitch...says she is insulting teachers, principals, and students.
And that they are all proving her wrong.

When the DOE makes you a personal target in a Democratic administration...that's a problem.

Arne's words came through Jonathan Alter. I think it's a little insulting for him to speak this way about a former assistant Secretary of Education. She knows more about learning and teaching than Arne or Jonathan. In fact for the Secretary of Education to get that personal is really a little shocking to me.

Mike Klonsky first mentions these personal statements by Arne at his blog.

Diane Ravitch is right on point with her critique of corporate-style school reform and with her exposes of so-called "turnaround miracles."

How do I know she's hitting the mark? Arne Duncan is using the full power of the DOE's overstaffed and over-budgeted PR department to launch personal attacks on Diane. Even during the Bush administration, when hack journalists like Armstrong Williams were paid big bucks to promote No Child Left Behind, I can't recall former secretaries of ed using willing writers to launch such vicious personal vendettas against individual critical educators.


Here is more about Arne's words about Diane Ravitch.

Arne appears to have shamelessly used Jonathan Alter to get the word out about his feelings about Ravitch.

Alter's column

Please note Alter's use of the words "status quo" and "obstructionist"...two of the favorite words of reformers to be used against those who support public education.

Unfortunately, the forces of the status quo are still working overtime. Obstructionists with a talent for caricature are determined to discredit important progress under way in some of the poorest school districts in the country.

The leader of this rear-guard action is Diane Ravitch, a professor at New York University who was an assistant secretary of education in the administration of George H.W. Bush. She’s the education world’s very own Whittaker Chambers, the famous communist turned strident anti-communist of the 1940s. Ravitch moved the other way, from right to left, where she now uses phony empiricism to rationalize almost every tired argument offered by teachers unions.


That's mean and spiteful. There are no redeeming qualities to those words.

Pretty ugly words, but he's not done yet. He quotes Arne Duncan.

Arne Duncan, President Barack Obama’s normally mild- mannered education secretary, has finally had enough. “Diane Ravitch is in denial and she is insulting all of the hardworking teachers, principals and students all across the country who are proving her wrong every day,” he said when I asked about Ravitch this week.


This is not the first time Alter has been sicced on Ravitch when she crossed the reformers. From December 2010:

Jonathan Alter, billionaire Gates diss Ravitch, teachers, liberals.

When I asked Gates about Ravitch, you could see the Micro-hard hombre who once steamrolled software competitors: “Does she like the status quo? Is she sticking up for decline? Does she really like 400-page (union) contracts? Does she think all those ‘dropout factories’ are lonely? If there’s some other magic way to reduce the dropout rate, we’re all ears.” Gates understands that charters aren’t a silver bullet, and that many don’t perform. But he doesn’t have patience for critics who spend their days tearing down KIPP schools and other models that produce results.


I did a news search on her name, and it appears she really angered some people several times this week. It seems mostly to be the powerful moneyed reformers who are taking public education out of the hands of the people.

In fact this week she really had strong words about how Bill Gates and his foundation are speaking about teachers.

From NPR:

"I have no doubt that the movement Bill Gates has launched has created enormous hostility toward teachers," says Diane Ravitch, who has been studying American education for 40 years.

The New York University professor has emerged as the most outspoken critic of the foundation's approach.

"It's like all accountability for educational failure is suddenly plopped on the heads of teachers, and this is wrong," she says.

Moreover, Ravitch contends that when the foundation supports think tanks, academics and others who agree with its point of view, it drowns out other voices. NPR is among those organizations receiving money from the Gates Foundation. Referring to Bill Gates, she says, one man shouldn't have so much power."


When I write about the New Normal in education, I realize it really won't make a difference. Their side is too powerful, and ours is not.

I see the way teachers are thought of here now at a Democratic forum, and I realize it took a Democrat to finally push the reforms through. We fought George Bush's efforts, but now we are accepting those same goals.

Maybe someone will think about it more than they would have ordinarily. Maybe some will think to themselves that when a Secretary of Education is attacking a former assistant Secretary of Education because she stands up for public schools and teachers..that there is a problem.

Or maybe not.



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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. Arne Duncan "mild mannered". Yeah, first thing I think of w/Duncan is Mr. Rogers.
:eyes:

And may I say, Mr. Gates you DID DROP OUT. From the tippy top of the academic food chain. Hmmm..the kind of educational joint you want all those groovy KIPP graduates to spring from, right?

Why do people listen to these guys?
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-11 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
45. Duncan is like the boss in OFFICE SPACE, a soulless corporate drone.
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. I've learned over the past few years that I wouldn't piss on Alter if he was on fire and I was about
to burst.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. ditto n/t
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
3. President Obama has made too any bad choices in his
selection of advisors and the people to help him lead this country
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. +1
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Yes, Arne is only one bad choice of many.
Just think of who was appointed to head Ag and Interior. If a Republican had made such appointments to those eats, this place would have melted down.
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sulphurdunn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-11 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #3
32. They were only bad choices
if he didn't get what he wanted.
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-11 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #32
52. +1000. nt
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
6. It sounds like you are criticizing Arne Duncan. n/t
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-11 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #6
36. Duncan deserves all the criticism thrown at him and more.
And, as the daughter of retired teachers, I bitterly resent how he and Gates and their cohorts are trashing, demonizing and scapegoating the profession like never before. My parents worked damned hard for decades in a critical profession and got shit for it in the end. And Duncan is doing his best to ensure that that will continue.
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
8. Who's worse, Arne Duncan or Jonathan Alter?
Both hacks.
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
9. The Angry Dragon has always thought that education is
the foundation of all future learning. That there is always room to improve education.
No matter who comes up with the idea to better educate should be embraced. Whether it be
a republican or a democrat. The same holds true with bad ideas. What they are doing to
education in this country right now is a crime and they should be slapped upside the head.

Correct me if I am wrong, but in NY they are spending $1 billion on consulates while laying off
7000 teachers. If the people running the schools do not know what to do without hiring people
to show them how to run schools, what the hell are they doing running schools??

Duncan and Obama applaud the firing of all teachers in Providence. I want someone to tell
me how much this administration fights for teachers and how much love they have for them.
Until then duncan has no room to open his mouth.
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
10. Zealots and True Believers.
Zealots and True Believers always conflate what they want with what must be done. They are absolute in their belief.

If they believe their solution is the right one, to be against it is to be doltish, against humanity, regressive and hateful. There's no room for critical thinking, there's no room for debate, there's no room for a bit of uncertainty. If you oppose them, you are evil, nasty, and the only response is to scare people to support you and vilify those who don't.

But they don't leave it there.

They aren't happy with the idea of their idea being implemented by itself. They and only they are the True Bearers of the Idea. Anybody else would get it wrong. It requires their hands-on supervision, because only they are qualified. Only they are the truly enlightened.

It would be tempted to say they have a Messiah complex, but at least Jesus was fairly humble about things. They, it would appear, have done Christ one better and removed that particular design flaw in the Son of God.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
11. I'm a teacher. And Arne Duncan insults me.
Diane Ravitch otoh, is a great advocate for the teaching profession.

Arne should keep quiet and not try to speak for people he clearly despises.

I guess he really does think we are stupid.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Yes, I honestly believe he thinks teachers are stupid or not very bright.
I think he is surprised that his attacks on us and our unions from the beginning brought such anger. I don't think he has the capacity to understand what he is doing to a whole lot of good people. He is setting an atmosphere in which careers are destroyed at the whim and fancy of folks like Bill Gates. It's very sad.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Which only goes to show how out of touch he is with the
profession he claims to be an expert on.

Teachers are no fools. This is a bad period unfortunately but I think eventually, sadly after the failure of our education system for this and maybe another generation, we will return to some semblance of sanity where our educational system is concerned.

And these people, all of them, will not be looked kindly upon in the history of education.

Ravitch has credibility, he does not and I guess that is why he is so defensive.
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onpatrol98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. +1
Edited on Fri Jun-03-11 10:46 PM by onpatrol98
I sure hope this fellow who has never been a public school teacher or even attended a public school considers himself an expert. What I can't understand is why he isn't simply publicly shunned every time he enters a room with teachers? If every time he walked in a room, educators walked out, perhaps the White House would get it. We don't get mechanics to tell doctors how to practice medicine. What credentials besides his basketball skills and being placed in a position by his buddy Daley qualify him for this position.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. 'we don't get mechanics to tell doctors how to practice medicine.'
No, we don't and if that ever happened there would be outrage. Teachers SHOULD walk out when Arne enters a room. I think he's made it clear on several occasions that he is not a particularly bright individual, at least concerning the field of education.

I think his job is to transfer public funds to private hands. There are a lot of them sadly, in this administration.
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roxiejules Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #14
70. The corporatization of schools
The Oligarchs' strategy is obvious: Invite the shrinking minority of teachers at schools that haven't been blown up yet to the bonfire, where the stakes are in place for those who speak the truth. Hope to divide--hope to conquer--burn the rest.


http://www.schoolsmatter.info/2011/06/duncan-and-bbc-go-after-ravitch.html
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sulphurdunn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-11 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #12
34. In Arne World
"bright" is a function of wealth and wealthy connections. Stupid, on the other hand, is both a cause and an effect of not having money and connections.
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-11 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #12
53. oh, he understands what he is doing...
and he just doesn't give a flip.
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blackspade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-11 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #11
39. As a parent, he insults me as well.
As if I am stupid and unaware of the havok his privatizing policies are having on children, teachers, and schools.
Down right shameful.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
13. What does Gates know about education?
Does he have any experience as an educator? Does money have such a loud voice now that no matter how unqualified the person, they are given credibility no matter how wrong they are?

He is the epitome of Bush's business oriented and written NCLB Bill. All business, very little understanding of how a child learns or what a real education involves.

But it looks like Ravitch is doing a good job. She really got them riled, and that's something I suppose. It means they are afraid, and uncertain of what they are doing, except for the 'business' part of it.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-11 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #13
22. Gates knows that teachers don't get better after 3 years. LOL
:rofl:

He really believes it. He believes experience does not make a better teacher, even though it does mean improvement in other fields.

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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 06:13 AM
Response to Reply #22
59. That comes from his personal experience
Nothing Microsoft puts out is any good after 3 days
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
15. "Phony empiricism"-lol
I guess that's the kind of fancy talk you can indulge in when you're the sock puppet of Arne the Pirate. Two assholes who found each other.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
16. Nothing to do but vomit whenever arne's name comes up.
That our president pals around with him, trusts him, supports him only proves that our president is either not smart at all or is in league with the corporatist neocons.

You can't say that the mean old republicans forced Obama into this. This is his baby. He did this. Of course the republicans stood by and laughed and cheered as he did it, but the apologists can't say that this education debacle was something he had no control over. He owns this.
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HankyDubs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
17. this is good news
they have nothing to say, no facts to present, no argument to make. They only have smears and lies.

Go piss up a rope Arne!
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Monarda Donating Member (25 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-11 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #17
57. This is exactly right.
The facts are against them. They have failed.
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
19. hmph
My DU ignore list has grown exponentially since I've begun tracking the indefensible damage to teachers, unions and public education wrought by Arne Duncan, Bill Gates, Michelle Rhee, and our current POTUS (et al). Just because Obama represents himself as a Democrat doesn't mean he's upholding democratic ideals when it comes to education.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Not only that, but Obama is not a product of U.S. public schools
He knows them only by hearsay.

Sure, there are things wrong with the way we go about education in this country (over-emphasis on sports, dumbing down of the curriculum--mostly brought about by textbook companies, not from requests by teachers), but bashing teachers will not solve any of this.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #19
63. The real ignore list
is the DU'ers who ignore any post or poster about education. They know that this is the proof of Obama's clay feet and corporate thinking, so they ignore and stay away from posts that they wish would go away.
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #63
66. Yes,
I see not a single ignore on THIS post. I wonder where they've all gone?
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #66
67. LOL, I know just who you mean. I don't have
any of them on ignore, because I like to challenge them, particularly a certain poster with a huge picture of a certain person as his sig pic, then challenge their responses. That way, they have to keep posting their ignorance and hatred for all here to see.
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #67
68. Well,
I appreciate your willingness to engage and expose such individuals. I think you're making a difference, because I rarely see these naysayers now.

(I do find it rather pathetic that they continue to post responses to my posts, knowing full well that they're on my ignore list and I can't see what they've said.)
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #68
69. I don't know if I'm making a difference as far as THEIR opinion
is ocncerned; the one I mentioned was just on madfloridian's other recent thread about the unwarranted firing of a teacher spouting his usual bullshit nonsense. However, by responding to them in that thread and others I'm getting their true natures out so that people around here can see what and what they really are. People like them, who had no idea what the fuck they were talking about, often made my parents' careers difficult.
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radhika Donating Member (563 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-11 01:19 AM
Response to Original message
23. I"m a Teacher: Ravitch has never insulted me...but
When you and Obama summarily fired the entire school district of RI, I was insulted. So were my teacher colleages.

When you and Obama hand the future of the next generation over to private corporate profiteers that cannot demonstrate any additional success or efficacy, I am insulted.

When you and Obama dismantle the People's Educational Commons at the behest of non-teaching billionaires like Bill Gates and Eli Broad, I am insulted.

First the Public Option was stripped from the universal health plan Americans had to settle for. Now the Public Option is being stripped from the idea of universal public education. We are being forced to pay our hard earned dollars to your allies, and have less and less that we can call OUR OWN.



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HankyDubs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 02:45 AM
Response to Reply #23
58. hear fucking hear
well said!
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YBR31 Donating Member (83 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-11 07:38 AM
Response to Original message
24. This like everything else is not black & white
My daughter is special ed. a teacher. She works her butt off and gives all she has and more to her kids. She doesn't earn much but doen't mind. I have friends that are dedicated teachers. However, I've seen tenured teachers who are awful and waste a precious year of a child's life. I've seen the ridiculous hours the Chicano Public Schools teachers have been able to negotiate for and are unwilling to change because they don't appear to care about the kids in their system. Those kids are in a failing system and spend so little time in the classroom, it is laughable! I am sick of hearing all these adults pointing fingers at each other and worrying about themselves. It's time someone put the kids first.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-11 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. Welcome to DU..
One thing we know for absolute sure, Bill Gates and Arne Duncan have only the best interests of our children at heart.

Everyone else has an agenda.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-11 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #24
30. Trust me, the "reformers" like Arne do not put the children first.
I hear Chicago teachers have given and given, and now are being asked to give some more. Rahm blames teachers for most of the ills of the world.

I was a "tenured" teacher for over 30 years. Our teachers on continuing contract, or tenure, had to work hard and prove themselves for 3 years before they got it. They could be disciplined or fired for just cause, just like anyone.

You don't need to worry about Chicago teachers anymore. Rahm will have them firmly in hand, and the hours will grow and grow.

When Obama appointed Arne, billionaire Eli Broad was thrilled that now the "stars were aligned" for the reformers. Indeed they were.

Teachers put the children first in spite of that talking point begun by a reformer group that they don't. Reformers are after the bottom line....saving money.

It will be the legacy of this administration that teachers were looked down upon more than ever before. I don't think Obama understands the terrible impact. I see it here at DU, the lack of respect.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-11 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #24
31. Here's a bit about what's going on in Chicago with Rahm.
Edited on Sat Jun-04-11 11:03 AM by madfloridian
Read it, and then follow some of the links.

http://michaelklonsky.blogspot.com/2011/04/chicagos-school-reform-ruling-class.html

"A lot has been made, especially in the wake of Citizens United, about the corporate financing of politics towards clearly ideological ends. But reading up on Jean-Claude Brizard's appointment to run the Chicago Public Schools, I was reminded of something that seems to be increasing, though I'm willing to acknowledge the possibility it's just something I only started really noticing: the influence of well-funded non-profits, supported by the wealthy and well-connected, with non-ideological goals (or opaquely ideological, if you're the suspicious type). Particularly in the area of public schooling.

For instance, the aforementioned Chicago Public Education Fund: "The Fund's board of directors reads like a who's who of Chicagoans. Chairman Timothy Schwertfeger is head of Nuveen Investments, a 108-year-old firm managing $119 billion in assets. The Fund's other vice-chair is Bruce Rauner of GTCR Rauner, a $6 billion private equity and venture capital firm. Other directors among the 27 on the board include Scott C. Smith, the founding chairman of The Fund and president of Tribune Publishing." (Philanthropy Roundtable, 2007)

Rahm Emanuel represented Rauner's company in one of his biggest deals during his short stint in investment banking. Rauner's wife is on Emanuel's education transition team; a former investment banker herself, she now runs the Ounce of Prevention Fund, which does advocacy for early childhood education. Bruce Rauner is also on the board of the Renaissance Schools Fund, whose president praised the selection of Brizard, as is Schwertfeger.

The secretary of the Renaissance Schools Fund is Harrison Steans, president and CEO of the Steans Family Foundation... and you may recognize Steans Family Foundation trustee Robin Steans as the director of Advance Illinois, one of the school-reform groups responsible for the amendment to Senate Bill 7 that would change the length of the school day and modify provisions about strikes and collective bargaining. Advance Illinois receives backing from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation (major backers of Renaissance 2010), which has teamed with the Broad Foundations in public school philanthropy; the latter founded the superintendents academy that Brizard graduated from."


Then read some more of his blog.

Then this blog.

http://preaprez.wordpress.com/

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radhika Donating Member (563 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-11 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #31
41. Some differences among non-profits....
I served several years on a non-profit board of a prominent AIDS/HIV organization. Our board had a lot of fancy names from time to time. They didn't always attend meetings, but they were very generous and supportive helping us raise money and get press coverage at our events. Wealthy people with wealthy friends and big event-ready homes are vital to the non-profit sector. Philanthropy is wonderful.

On the other hand - we have non-profits that are not working a social agenda we Progressives might want. There is lots wrong with Education. And the input of the whole community - parents, teachers, employers and philanthropists - is welcome. But in the case of Gates, Broad and many others, a vital community resource is being taken from the hands of the community. And delivered into the hands of profit-making entities, with no critical examination of their positions, the underlying facts or the long-term merits of a Public Commons.

Sad to say, here in the USA Money Talks. Especially when it involves the political set. Rahm, Obama, Duncan and countless others listen to the elites first.




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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-11 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #41
47. Arne should be asked at every press conference: why do you listen billionaires who stand to make a
profit by privatizing education instead of talking to actual teachers?
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-11 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #24
33. ridiculous hours, huh?
you mean ridiculous in terms of the hours they spend outside the classroom dealing with the mountain of red tape being shoved down their throats, and the reams of 'data driven' material they're supposed to accumulate, collate, organize, present as part of their PLC teams, then present to the mucky mucksters who use it against them to 'document' what bad jobs they do?

nice try

you have no clue what goes on in actual classrooms, despite your ''daughter's'' story

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Riley18 Donating Member (883 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-11 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #24
35. Arne and Gates are clearly putting profit first. They do not
see the need for free public education in this country. While it is nice that your daughter "works her butt off" for the kids, does she really want to work in a for profit center where the kids needs come after a profit is made? You say she is okay with not earning much money, but will she feel the same way when she is making even less? What if she has children of her own to support? Will she enjoy forgoing neccessary expenditures for her own family because she cannot afford them? Will she be thrilled to scrape by on less and less while her student loans still need to be paid? I am sick and tired of people always throwing up those "teachers" they have heard about who are somehow "bad" everytime propaganda is spread around about how bad tenure is for education. Tenure is a necessary safety net in order to maintain a free and honest educational system. If there were no tenure, teachers would be at the mercy of politicians who want to push their own agendas. How would you like for your kids to have to learn history from those Huckabee tapes for instance? How about creationism instead of factual scienc based curriculum?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-11 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #35
38. Religious views are already being taught in FL paid for by taxpayers.
Florida's faith-based education, provided by corporations who get tax breaks. Defunds public schools

"Evans reads the next word, "were," and then uses it in a sentence: "Were you there when they crucified my Lord?"

...It's a timely example, two days before Good Friday. The classroom walls are adorned with colorful placards on the same theme: In Christ, all things are made new, reads one. Jesus is alive, proclaims another.

These are the telltale signs of the faith-based education that Jeff and Kimberly Pasmore say they are glad their son is able to receive — and that they wouldn't be able to afford without the help they get from the state. The missionaries from Spring Hill have a meager income, but use the Florida Tax Credit Scholarship Program to cover the roughly $3,600 annual tuition."
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-11 07:41 AM
Response to Original message
25. Arne is projecting, and he does as good a job of projecting as anybody in the Bush administraiton
Worse, he is doubling down on Bush administration policies.

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Orlandodem Donating Member (859 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-11 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
27. The more Arne talks, the less likely I am to vote for Obama.
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Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-11 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
28. Her real crime:
>>>Referring to Bill Gates, she says, one man shouldn't have so much power.">>>>


Connecting the dots.

They're now going to prove her point by abusing their power over media to deliberately misrepresent her analysis and ideas.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-11 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
29. Why doesn't he just ask the teachers?
Oh, right. He doesn't talk to teachers. Only billionaires and corporate CEOs.
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blackspade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-11 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
37. Another great OP.
Right on the money as usual!
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-11 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. ....
I appreciate that. I realize the time is coming quickly when anything I post about it will be only words with no meaning. The changeover is happening very quickly. Teachers here are in shock.
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blackspade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-11 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Tragically that seems more likely by the day.
I've been talking to teachers locally, and surprisingly many are not aware of what is going on.
It is likely that so far my school district has resisted any sort of charter programs.
But I can see the change coming....
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-11 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. FL teachers just lost the right to collective bargaining.
And many are just realizing it. They are losing jobs because of the increased voucher programs here, and the money going to charters. 33 million in tax money for education will be lost just this year alone because of vouchers.
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blackspade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-11 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #44
55. All I can do is shake my head in disgust.
I've contacted the WH and my members of Congress, but ultimately I have realized they just don't care.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-11 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
40. Love it! Salon points out that Bloomberg's opinion page goes after his critic, Ravitch.
http://www.salon.com/news/michael_bloomberg/?story=/politics/war_room/2011/06/03/bloomberg_alter_school_reform

"The conflict of interest inherent in having a media company owned by a powerful politician would probably be easier to explain away if that media company's new opinion arm refrained from directly attacking prominent critics of the boss. But Bloomberg View, like Bloomberg himself, doesn't care what nitpicking critics say. That's why no editor there thought it unseemly of Bloomberg View to run a Jonathan Alter piece attacking education policy expert Diane Ravitch, a vociferous critic of Mayor Bloomberg's handing of the New York City schools system.

Bloomberg View is the unasked-for opinion arm of Bloomberg L.P., the financial information company founded and owned by the billionaire mayor of New York City. Before it launched, one of its editors promised that it would run only "ideology-free, empirically-based editorial positions about the pressing issues of our time," because the ideology of the wealthy elite does not count as ideology.

There was already a minor controversy when it was reported that the opinion arm of Bloomberg's media company -- a company he is not supposed to be directly running while he's mayor -- would be located not at corporate HQ, but at the offices of the Bloomberg Family Foundation, where the mayor is allowed to participate in day-to-day operations.

Alter, formerly of Newsweek, is no lazy hack. He is smart and hard-working. Mayor Bloomberg didn't directly assign some shameless attack dog to go after one of his critics. Alter obviously sincerely agrees with the Bloomberg philosophy. But it still looks seriously inappropriate, like Mayor Mike's P.R. department firing off a response to this recent Ravitch op-ed."

Ravitch's op ed was called Waiting for a School Miracle. It must have hit some nerves.

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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-11 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
46. TRANSLATION: Ravitch is being heard and having an effect. The theft of public education is being
slightly slowed by her interference.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-11 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. Yes, exactly. She is obviously being heard and they want no
interference on their way to destroying the public school system and handing over all those public funds to private entities.

I hope she keeps speaking out as she is having an effect.
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-11 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #46
51. And waking some parents up! Bill Gates and Arne Duncan don't care about kids. They care about unions
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-11 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. I think Gates has the most cynical motive of all. Once schools are totally dysfunctional, how will
people educate their kids?

On the computer.

Colleges have already been flogging distance ed because they can charge regular tuition without paying for the upkeep of classrooms.

Microsoft isn't really a player in that yet, but if it ever caught on in K-12, he would roll out a product or simply buy the company already in the field.
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-11 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. Micorsoft is a huge player in the online learning formats. They have been
beat to a bloody pulp in the hardware side of things and their software offerings are usually chock full of their particular brand of junk. They sign contracts with anyone who will
Trump for the Apprentice show, Palin for the Palin show and Bill Gates for the Microsoft show. Its that simple.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-11 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
48. k & r
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erodriguez Donating Member (532 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-11 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
50. Arne is an asshole
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
60. As an aside, she was married for many years to Dick Ravitch
He is one of the most respected Dems in this State.

Gates - "Does she really like 400-page (union) contracts?" She probably does - those agreements are surely better for workers than Gates fabled "permatemps."
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. and it's clear that the ''reformers'' want teachers who are short term temps--and somehow think
it will lead to better teachers.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. What's clear is that they have never taught, are stupid, and/or
don't give a shit about kids.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. except for the way commodities traders care about corn, wheat, or pork bellies.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. True that. To them, kids lives are a commodity.
And this is the most telling evidence of just how wall-street and corporate leaning this administration is. That they would trade futures in American education.
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