Sarah Palin is a Joke. Likening her to Adolph Hitler

[MineralMan]

is a waste of space. James Howard Kunstler wrote a moronic blog post doing exactly that, and I see it has been posted twice here on DU already today. For those who must see what this moron wrote, here is the link: http://www.kunstler.com/index.php

Sarah Palin is an inconsequential human being getting her short time of notoriety. Adolph Hitler was something quite different. They are not alike.

Making such comparisons makes progressives look like fools and diminishes us.

Shame on you, Mr. Kunstler. Take your time. Write something that means something. You have wasted our time this morning.

[barbtries]

1. i pretty much agree, except that

i don't think she's a joke. she is a demagogue. i think we ignore her at our peril.

[divvy]

4. +1 You are right

The only thing that really matters is that her people believe. You cannot predict what irrational people will do.

[MineralMan]

5. I do not suggest ignoring her. We have plenty of ammunition

at our disposal to attack her. We don't need this crap.

[barbtries]

7. oh, yeah,

i didn't click your link. palin is palin; no comparisons required.

[WingDinger]

27. Oh, but we do. I foretold scapegoating when the collapse was first reported.

And the teabaggers, if given any power, will remove the social contract. That is their goal. Along with that, of course, goes any shred of corporate responsibility, as well. People will die in the streets, if not quite ovens. Make Nazi's and the forces that elevated them quaint, and super unachievable, and the same thing will happen as the collapse. Oh, we have put THINGS in place to not let another depression happen. Or the Japanese about nukes.

[blueamy66]

8. she's not even a human being

ugh

[StopTheNeoCons]

36. Likening her to Adolph Hitler is a slight to Hitler...nt

[Dawson Leery]

55. Whomever is chosen to run against Obama must be take seriously.

Sarah Palin is a weak candidate, at the same time she can whip her followers (20-25%) of the country into a violent frenzy. As you said, she is a demagogue and must be treated as such.

[phantom power]

2. Hitler was basically a joke too. Until one day he wasn't.

Hitler had no particular mojo, except maybe a manic charisma. He was a salt crystal dropped into a super-saturated social/political/economic solution.

[MineralMan]

6. Actually, you are incorrect in your assessment.

Quite incorrect.

[tekisui]

9. How are they incorrect?

[MineralMan]

10. Read a book.

I'm not going to write you a biography of Adolph Hitler. If that's too much, start with the Wikipedia article on him:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler

[tekisui]

11. You say they are incorrect, quite assuredly, I thought you may have

something, maybe just a point or two to back it up. I guess not.

[SDuderstadt]

23. Trying to "shift the burden of proof" again...

dude?

MM's point is well taken.

[H2O Man]

50. I think that

they are both right .... Hitler was an odd man, who likely could not have been capable of accomplishing much in any other point in German history. The context of his times obviously created fertile ground for his madness to germinate and flower.

At the same time, there was a period -- which took momentum after he was gaining political/social power -- where he began an exercise in self-discipline, and was able to channel his potential to do "bad" with a ruthless intensity.

One of the more interesting reviews of his sick character, in my opinion, are found in Erik Fromm's book on the human capacity for destructiveness. I think that upon reading his views on Hitler, most people could agree with both opinions expressed in this section of this thread.

[mwb970]

3. Sarah is nothing like Hitler!

Hitler actually achieved things, for one thing. Evil things, yes, but he actually did stuff with (terrible) consequences. Palin doesn't actually do anything, preferring to sit on the sidelines and screech about people who are trying to achieve things (good things, in this case).

There must have been some Hitler suckup who parroted his words then ran and hid. Palin might be like that guy, I guess.

[Dreamer Tatum]

13. Know who looks like a Hitler suckup?

YOU.

"Hitler actually achieved things..."

Good god.

[Cid_B]

30. This whole thread...

... has reduced my faith in humanity...

[coalition_unwilling]

52. Wow, that is really close to the line of unacceptable discourse here

on DU. Hitler was awarded the Iron Cross during World War I. The German government didn't give those away; they had to be earned through valor. Contrast that with flim-flam bunco artist Palin.

The person you responded to compared Palin unfavorably to Hitler in the sense that Palin never gets anything done, being the quitter she is. You turn that comparison into the poster being a Hitler suckup?

I think you owe that poster a serious apology.

N.B. I wrote my senior history thesis on the Nazi's implementation of the Final Solution post-Wansee. So don't you dare accuse me of being a Hitler suckup.

[HipChick]

12. She's better likened to Australia's Pauline Hanson..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1189318

[The Magistrate]

14. Actually, Sir, The Gentleman Has A Decent Point

He is comparing method of, and basis of, mass appeal, not enormity of evil, and he does so with fair accuracy.

For an exposition you might find more to your taste, look out for 'Conservatism and Counter-Revolution From Burke to Palin' by Prof. Corey Robin. An exceprt was published in last December's Harper's, under the title 'Party of Loss'.

[EFerrari]

28. There's 17 pp here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/41913924/Conservatism-and-Counterrevolution-Corey-Robin


Looks like a good read.

[EFerrari]

34. Home run, Your Honor:

Robin:

"Conservatism has not only depended upon outsiders; it also
has seen itself as the voice of the outsider. From Burke’s cry that
“the gallery is in the place of the house” to Buckley’s complaint that
the modern conservative is “out of place,” the conservative has served
as a tribune for the displaced, his movement a conveyance of their
grievances. Far from being an invention of the politically correct,
victimhood has been a talking point of the Right ever since Burke
decried the mob’s treatment of Marie Antoinette. The conservative,
to be sure, speaks for a special type of victim: one who has lost some-
thing of value, as opposed to the wretched of the earth, whose chief
complaint is that they never had anything to lose. His constituency
is the contingently dispossessed—William Graham Sumner’s “for-
gotten man”—rather than the preternaturally oppressed. Far from
diminishing his appeal, this brand of victimhood endows the con-
servative complaint with a more universal significance. It connects
his disinheritance to an experience we all share—namely, loss—and
threads the strands of that experience into an ideology promising that
that loss, or at least some portion of it, can be made whole."

Kunstler:

This is exactly the theme of Sarah Palin's campaign. A large segment of the American public has entered the dark wilderness of loserdom. They've lost jobs, incomes, and even their homes. They can't support a family, can't afford to gas up their God-given cars, can hardly even afford to buy food - though many of this group have been programmed, tragically, to get much of their food from hamburger and taco dispensaries that "free market" America has generously dotted the landscape with. They are ashamed, especially living in a nation where liberty is supposed to enable you to get a leg up in the world, to be self-reliant, to make something of yourself. Hence, they imagine themselves to have somehow been deprived of liberty (and honor!) which they must now get back.

[H2O Man]

46. Right.

I agree. She has an ability -- though I would hesitate to call it a talent -- to appeal to a crowd's fears and hatreds. And we saw what was beginning to happen with the crowds that surrounded her in '08, who were whipped into a frenzie, and yelling some hostile, aggressive, anti-Obama cdrap that, at the very least, was on the line per being illegal.

My take is that the author of the article in the OP was not saying that Palin was soon to take over this country, and institute a Nazi-type system. Rather, as you note, her danger is not to be dismissed due to scale: instead, it is the awareness of those vicious appeals to the darker impulses of humanity that must be recognized and dealt with.

Wish I could "recommend" you post.

Thanks.

[Lucian]

49. I like how MM ignored your reply.

It says a lot.

:thumbsup: to you, btw.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

15. Kunstler said something I tend to agree with, though:

Sarah Palin represents a dangerous force in this country.

She herself is, indeed, a joke. She loves the limelight and will milk her fake campaign for all it's worth, but she's already proved repeatedly that she doesn't have the kind of determination it takes to conduct a serious presidential campaign. That's a whole hell of a lot of work and it requires enormous discipline and stamina. She jumped into the McCain campaign long after McCain and his staff had done most of the heavy lifting, and was just along for the ride after that. She did very little actual work or preparation. Sarah is an ego attached to a mouth, and it's hard to imagine her not quitting when the campaign gets tough - which it will.

She is, however, an example of the kind of demagogue that hard times often produce. Kunstler is correct in that regard. People are worried, frustrated and angry, and those circumstances beg for scapegoats and saviors. I don't worry about a ninny like Palin, but I do worry about the political climate that encourages politicians and talking heads - the Glenn Becks and Rush Limbaughs - to do and say the things she does and says.

[MineralMan]

16. There are, indeed, dangerous forces in this country.

Palin distracts us from looking at them. Perhaps that is her role.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

18. I think her role is to get as much attention and money for herself

as she can before her fifteen minutes are up. But other people - who may seem much more benign - bear watching. Like Tim Pawlenty. That dude scares me.

[MineralMan]

19. Tim Pawlenty isn't much of a threat. He's ineffectual and boring.

He'll be out of the race after the Iowa straw poll. He's playing a game of "look at me" in hopes of landing some position in a GOP administration, should there be such a thing.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

20. I hope you're right. My concern is

that his boringness and apparent inoffensiveness could be seen as positive assets (in contrast to the lunacy of Palin, Bachmann, et al.) by the money men who control the GOP. While I think they prefer Romney, I can imagine a scenario in which the big money support goes to Pawlenty because he seems so nice and normal and reasonable. His closet is relatively lacking in skeletons, and he's a good little fundie who's been in bed with the Grover Norquist anti-tax crowd for a long time. He nearly got McCain's #2 spot. And his ambition is boundless. So I'm not ruling out Timmy the Tool just yet.

I do NOT like that guy.

[MineralMan]

21. I don't like him, either, having suffered under his Governorship for

six years (I moved here in 2004.) There are too many brighter stars in the GOP mix for him to have much of a chance, I think.

[Ship of Fools]

17. here's my take:

1. i instantly saw her as a danger and wrote an op-ed in the KC Star the day after her stupid coming out speech.
2. i will no longer *click* on anything palin (except here, for a good giggle).
3. i will, however, check out anything nicole wallace comes up with in the future (a palin *aide* during '08). i heard her say on the boob tube that she knows a lot of shit about her and will never let her get anywhere near the WH (as if ...)

so, i'm going to sit back and enjoy the ride, but never give the twit any hits.

just one woman's opinion.

[HipChick]

22. Nicole Wallace made a very astute observeration..

""Just let her do her thing, she is going to be exposed enough to the American public that she will reveal what her nature is"

[Ship of Fools]

26. hear, hear!

[Old and In the Way]

24. Actually, I think she has a lot more in common with Reagan and George the Dimson.

All 3 were/are long on hubris and short on intellect.

The perfect candidates to be manipulated and used to further an agenda that they, themselves, are clueless to understand the totality of. The shot callers for Reagan were Regan and Deaver; Bush had Cheney. Question is, who would really run the Palin Presidency?

[pintobean]

25. You know, if you had

thrown a boatload of foul language into your post, it would get recced. Common sense alone doesn't work.
:hi:

[MineralMan]

29. I don't do a lot of foul language.

Once in a while, I'll do it just a little, but it just isn't my style.

As for recs, I never worry about those. It's the discussion I want, not empty clicks of a button.

[apples and oranges]

31. Sorry, but you're wrong. Palin has an uncanny ability to incite hate

pitting people of different groups against each other. She even tries to demonize northerners. Who even does that in this day and age?

[SDuderstadt]

32. Even if every word of your post is true...

how does that make her Hitler?

[Bluenorthwest]

38. To compare is not to equate. You should know the difference.

To say there are similarities is not to say they are identical, or that one is the other. That is obvious to most adult level readers.

[SDuderstadt]

41. So, what is the point of the comparison if not...

to hope some of it sticks?

[Nye Bevan]

33. OK. But you *have* to admit that Mitt Romney is Genghis Khan, and Pawlenty is Mussolini.

Giuliani is that guy who Bob Geldof played on "The Wall". And Jon Huntsman is Satan, Prince of Darkness.

Oh I almost forgot: Chris Christie is Herman Goring.

[EFerrari]

35. Kunstler's point, which is that Palin gives her follows something positive to do with

their shame, is true and powerful. This is in fact what Hitler did for Germany. It is was successful conservative (authoritarian) figures do for their base -- which is shamed based, and so massively vulnerable to manipulation exactly at that point.

Hitler is not the important piece of this article. The process of turning the conservative base into a self pitying, self-righteous nationalistic mob is.

[Nye Bevan]

44. Barack Obama gave me "something positive to do" with my shame over George Bush.

So is Obama Hitler, too?

[EFerrari]

45. Kunstler is talking about authoritarian conservatives.

Are you one of those?

[Doctor_J]

37. First of all, James Kunstler is not a moron

Second, just because she hasn't initiated a "Final Solution" doesn't mean there aren't similarities. Palin was a failed student, failed "TV sports babe", failed mayor of a one-horse town, and failed parent. Hitler was a nondescript army corporal and failed artist. While Hitler had to pretty much rally angry Germans on his own, Palin has the entirety of Big Media on her side. Hitler was, as were many Germans, supremely angry about the Versailles accord. Palin belongs to the secessionist AIP.

I'll take Kunstler's thoughts over yours and Big Media's any day.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

39. Thanks for posting the article. Hadn't seen it.

As for your drivel? Un-rec.

[coalition_unwilling]

40. I understand where you are coming from (I think). One of the ways

we make sense of the world is to make comparisons. If people like Kunstler compare Palin to Hitler, perhaps it is due to the lack of other suitable comparisons.

Many of the folks reading DU are too young to remember Father Joseph Coughlin (1930s), Senator Joseph McCarthy (1950s) or even Vice President Spiro Agnew (late 60s and early 70s). Each of these 3 is a more appropriate figure to whom to compare Palin. But Americans in general lack the historical scope to have those references, so they fall back on the most evil personage they know of which happens to be Hitler. Hitler was evil and Palin is evil, so the thinking goes, therefore Palin is Hitler.

Unfortunately, the false syllogism of equating Palin with Hitler tends to shut down debate. Now comparing Bush to Hitler (and 9-11 to the Reichstag Fire and the Patriot Act to the Enabling Act)? Well, I'll leave it to others to debate the usefulness and wisdom of such comparisons.

[Nye Bevan]

42. When Bush held elections, as scheduled, in 2008 (during a war),

then gracefully handed over the reins of power to Obama when the voters rejected him, and disappeared into obscurity, that kind of ended the Bush=Hitler comparisons.

[coalition_unwilling]

43. Good point(s) all of them, except technically speaking we were

never at war (according to the U.S. Constitution anyway).

[EFerrari]

51. There's actually a real problem with making Hitler a special case.

And that is, in telescoping backward from the height of his destructiveness, one misses the conditions and the process that allowed him to gain popularity in the first place.

[H2O Man]

53. Great point.

We do not benefit from placing people on stained glass windows, nor when we create the opposite position for the ilk of Hitler, etc. They are merely examples of the human potential.

[Doctor_J]

47. BTW I suggest you read all of the comments at the link

If you don't think the stupid whore has a lot of fans, you're REALLY mistaken.

[SDuderstadt]

48. Having a lot of fans doesn't...

make her Hitler.

[Doctor_J]

54. No, but it does make her dangerous. From the OP:

Sarah Palin is an inconsequential human being getting her short time of notoriety. Adolph Hitler was something quite different. They are not alike.

How many sane people do you think believed in 1929 that Hitler was "an inconsequential human being getting a short time of notoriety"?