I saw something today I wasn't supposed to see

[iwillalwayswonderwhy]

I work for a company that has multiple warehouses spread across the country. We just got brand spanking new insurance benefits this year.

Today, I got an email from the corporate office that contained a spreadsheet that would show the new codes that will be on the paychecks.

But I'm a curious sort. The company has (much to their chagrin), 3 warehouses that are unionized. So when I saw the tab that said Unions, heck yeah, I opened it. Insurance benefits for the union employees will cost those employees 1/3 of what I have to pay for the very same insurance. The company itself pays a bigger piece of their insurance than for the rest of it.

I don't begrudge the union employees in the slightest. But I could plainly see in an instant, why corporations despise unions. I also saw in an instant, why unions are so valuable to workers.

I quietly closed the spreadsheet and pondered on this a while.

I'm still pondering.

Edited to make this a little more vague.

[FreeState]

1. Don't ponder, organize n/t

[struggle4progress]

6. +

[blondeatlast]

49. Cubed. nt

[Scuba]

17. + One

[MissDeeds]

79. Absolutely! n/t

[TrollBuster9090]

82. 80% of the financial gains over the last 30 years have been acrued by the top 1%

So, the way cronie capitalism and socialism for the rich works is:

100 guys order a 100 slice pizza. When it arrives the rich guy grabs the first 80 slices, then points to the guy next to him and says "Watch out, that UNION guy next to you is trying to get a bigger slice than YOU."

[LoZoccolo]

2. I see your point but it is never a good idea to talk about what you did at your job on the Internet.

There has been at least one incident here where someone talked about something job-related and it got back to their employer. There are people who actively seek to disrupt the lives of people on DU. I would recommend alerting on your own thread and asking for it to be deleted.

[The Doctor.]

13. Why... It appears as though some trainer of African Elephants has an issue with witch-doctors.

Either way, It's vague by now.

Good advice.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

3. Good for you...

You did a very good thing.

Remember, knowledge is power...

And now, that knowledge is yours.


Recommended.

[BillyJack]

10. thumbsup :-)

:thumbsup:

[Hugabear]

4. Perfect example of why labor unions are still relevant

Companies will almost ALWAYS try to screw you over if you're on your own.

[MrDiaz]

19. I have been working since i was 16 years old.

I have never been in an Union, I have never had any problems with my insurance, small fee or free. I have always got my raises, and the job I have been working at now for the past 4 1/2 years is also union free, and the owner of this small business is very generous, and treats all us 35 employees like family.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrDiaz]

23. If it gets

"bought by a Mega" then i will deal with it, or go and find a different job, its pretty simple the way i see it. It's what I have done in the past. I work at a job until i get tired of working there and begin the process of finding another job. When I do eventually find another job willing to hire me, I give the employer a 2 weeks notice, or if I was angry enough I just tell them I quit. I continue this process until I am comfortable at the job I have found, and yes I have been comfortable here for the past 4 1/2 yrs, but am not ruling out that little process again if I need it again.

[iwillalwayswonderwhy]

25. Are you under 40

Or over 40?

[MrDiaz]

26. yes I am under 40,

I also understand that half of U.S. marriages end in divorce, I also understand that not all people share my thoughts, and I also understand that not everyone is as lucky as I have been in finding jobs, I am just simply pointing out my experiences. I CAN do that right?

[socialist_n_TN]

54. Yep unions are useless.......

UNTIL YOU NEED THEM! Do you have insurance? Life, health, auto? They're useless too until you (or your survivors) need them.

BTW, don't think that you'll always be able to get a job whenever you need it. The more this economy goes in the crapper, the rarer that will be. I've NEVER had to look for a job in my life, unless I was looking for something specific, like changing industries. Jobs ALWAYS found me. I always did everything right. Kept up on technology, had transferable skills, learned EVERYTHING available about the industry I was in, networked. EVERYTHING. But for the last 3+ months I've been actively LOOKING for a job and they're not out there. Maybe it's my age, but this is the first time this has happened to me. So don't get too cocky about it. It could happen to you too.

[eagertolearn]

97. Wait until you hit 50 or 55 and someone younger who will take

less pay will take your jobs. No job security.

[Dogtown]

27. Good luck with that in this job market.

It sounds as if you'd rather risk being unemployed than join a union.

Odd stance. I've got to think, "Hmmm...."

[MrDiaz]

30. When did I say

I rather not be in a Union? All I am saying is that I have had some good luck in the job market, and i have yet to join a Union, there isn't one where I am at. If there was on i probably would join. I am simply telling my experiences.

[Ikonoklast]

103. Want to find out just how much a 'nice guy' your boss is?

Ask him his honest thoughts about unions.

Get back to me after he fires you.

[snooper2]

53. So no matter what the economy does, as long as you are union

you get to keep your job...

So if everyone in the country was union, by your thought process, nobody would ever be out of work, right?

[Fumesucker]

38. I thought you said you had always been treated well on the job?

And yet you say.. "When I do eventually find another job willing to hire me, I give the employer a 2 weeks notice, or if I was angry enough I just tell them I quit."

So which is it, always treated well or sometimes leave angry?

[MrDiaz]

39. The job I currently have

I am being treated well, of course when i worked at sonic, or McDonald's, i wasn't treated as well as i would of liked, but the job I have right now, at this point in time, is excellent for me and my schedule. Sorry if you believe that is impossible.

[Fumesucker]

40. I read a comment on another thread by you that at least implied you were always treated well..

Which is what prompted my question.

I never implied I thought it was impossible to be treated well on the job but anyone who depends on the benevolence of employers is daft in my estimation and I say that as someone who has been on both sides of the employer/employee relationship.

You are young yet, I suspect your attitude will change, we all start off naive and then become more cynical as we see how the world really works.

[OwnedByFerrets]

89. My god, you are so naive. Or just trying to stir things up

[Fumesucker]

22. Welcome to DU..

You do know that divorce ends about half of all marriages in the USA, yes?

[TBF]

29. What may work for you until you're 40 or so may not be working for all -

and you may also be undervaluing yourself. Unions look out for workplace protection and enable you to get raises - which encourages other employers (like your small operation) to also give higher wages so they don't lose their employees to unions. You may be getting good raises just because the threat of unions exist.

Please think about that. While I am happy you are in a good position, try to think about those who are not.

And please also enjoy your stay.

[MrDiaz]

35. I do not believe

I am undervaluing myself, I have been getting raises quarterly, and some pretty nice ones. All I am saying is that in my case, my employer is treating everyone very well. And yes I realize that not everyone is as lucky as I am. I know there are alot of terrible owners out there who dont care for their employees. I am NOT anti-union. Like I said i just happened to of landed in a nice spot here.

[Occulus]

42. In every case, on every job, at every employer,

had there been a union present, you would have been paid more and your benefits would have been better. I don't know of one single case of successful collective bargaining in which the union has ended up with lower pay.

Treating you very well is not a valid reason to not have, or not join, a union. I wish more people understood that.

[Wait Wut]

55. I agree with this statement.

I've been a graphic artist for 27 years (holy crap, I'm old). In Chicago, I was approached by the Printer's Union a few times and after talking to them (while my various bosses sweated it out in their offices) they would always seem rather dejected because I was making more than average, always had wonderful benefits and loved my jobs. I've been lucky for the majority of those 27 years. Gotta add that those union reps. were always very respectful and honest. I think that's the one stereotype (from the right, mostly) that annoys me the most. They never once pressured me.

On the other hand, I knew several pressmen that were union members that were miserable at their jobs, but were paid well. Can't say the same about Arizona. Oh yeah, "right to work" state where you should just be damned grateful that you have a job. Doesn't matter that after 27 years I'm making the same wage as a McDonald's employee back in Chicago and have zero benefits. But, the weather is nice. :eyes:

[bettyellen]

86. you are overvaluing your employers if you think Mc Donalds provides good insurance to it;s workers!

their plans have been judged some of the worst out there.
Sorry. but that was not only a shitty job, but shitty coverage too. I see no evidence you know what a good job is!

[DiverDave]

104. You sound like a shill

If you indeed worked at 'sonic and plastic mac's' And you DONT see the need for unions, then you are one blind person.

I got your number.

How much do you get paid to come here?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

46. You've been lucky....so far

If your company gets bought out by a conglomerate, all your bennies will go bye-bye.

[Daphne08]

57. You've been very fortunate. If all employers treated their

workers as well as your employer has, we wouldn't have a problem... now would we?

I wish you all the best and hope you never find yourself in a position of having to work for a company or employer who is not so generous and thoughtful. If so, perhaps you will see the value of unions.

[SemperEadem]

60. it's still not a good enough argument to do away with unions

nice try.

[Philippine expat]

61. I worked for 42 years

from 14 years old until I retired at 56 years old.
On my 18th birthday I hired into a union shop, stayed there
about 1 year. And that 1 year was the absolutely worst
working experience I ever had both before and since.
That being said I think everyone should have the chance
to join a union but no one should be forced to join.

[JDPriestly]

62. Working for a small company in which your boss knows you

and considers you to be a human being is great.

But most people are not in that situation.

[TxVietVet]

64. Consider yourself fortunate. Very fortunate especially in Houston.

[alarimer]

66. You have all those things because of unions.

Even if you are not in one. Your employer may be smart enough to realize that if he or she does not offer comparable benefits to union companies, his best employees will go elsewhere. This is one of the benefits of having unions around; they make it better for everyone. I wish every companies was organized- we would ALL be better.

Still you should acknowledge that you owe a debt of gratitude for the union members who fought and, yes, DIED so you (a non-union employee) can work 40 hour weeks and have some vacation and other benefits.

[Gormy Cuss]

69. +1

[sulphurdunn]

67. What you describe is called

Paternalism. It works well enough with small businesses that have few employees and are owned privately by the people who run them, but know this: Every benefit you have, from your work week, to your insurance, to your wages, and any pensions or other social benefits you will receive when your working days are over are things you owe to the blood and sweat of union workers and not to the beneficence of your employer.

[gtar100]

68. I'm glad that you and 35 others are treated fairly.

But is your point: "screw everyone else, I got mine".

Just because it can work in one situation doesn't mean it works everywhere. If you can't see the need for unions by now, you have your mind made up already. If you think every business owner is going to do the right thing, you're choosing to selectively hear the news. Consider low wage jobs, unemployment caused by outsourcing, under employment, and worse...sweat shops and slavery throughout the world. In the past, these things changed as unions became stronger and I do directly associate cause and effect here. Consider the standard of living for union workers in Europe. Unions are far more than self-interest groups. They bring together community interests, environmental interests, educational interests.

I wish you all the best - sincerely - as your situation is how it should work. But we shouldn't be blind to the problems elsewhere and denigrate one of the primary means for people to become empowered. If you don't care about that, then you're throwing yourself in with a selfish crowd.

[liberation]

72. LOL

The massah is so nice, I don't know what the other guys out in the field bitch about...

[notadmblnd]

75. Well go to work for a large corporation and see how generous they are

[defendandprotect]

81. Well, guess no one else is working for a ridiculous minimum wage -- or lacking benefits?

[October]

91. Wow, I've heard that a lot

The "treats us like family" line is very familiar...right up until they don't.

Sorry... just wow...

[TheDebbieDee]

92. You wanna merit badge or something?

Welcome to DU!

[Zoeisright]

101. And you're very lucky. And in the minority.

By the way, if you like weekends, or vacations, or health benefits, THANK A UNION. Those bennies didn't exist before unions literally ripped them away from greedy corporations.

[DainBramaged]

102. Of course what a wonderful tail......

:eyes:

[NNN0LHI]

107. You aren't by any chance related to the owner of the company in some way are you?

That is usually the way that works.

Don

[ChoppinBroccoli]

5. Behold, The Power Of Collective Bargaining

Any question now why the corporate-owned Republicans want to do away with it?

[snagglepuss]

7. I agree with LaZ that talking about a one's job on the net can be dangerous.

I hope you have changed enough details so you can't be identified.

[hailhydra]

8. I work for a company

that actually has an intern searching MySpace, Twitter, FaceBook etc for employees bad mouthing the company.

Many have been fired for saying something as benign as, "I hate work!" and having the company's name in their profile. Unfortunately, this is the world we live in...

[guruoo]

88. glassdoor.com

http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/index.htm

[BillyJack]

11. FEAR, FEAR, FEAR.......be AFRAID of what "they" can "do" to you!!!!!

:thumbsdown:

[REP]

58. I used to be on the 'Nuremberg Files' and get death threats. Fear? No. Just be aware.

[iwillalwayswonderwhy]

18. I think it's vague enough

Where I wouldn't be recognized. I'm not worried. Besides, that email went out to a lot of people.

[MilesColtrane]

9. The bosses and owners are not your friends

They will take the bread from your mouth without thinking twice about it.

They will never give you something simply out of the kindness of their hearts.

You've got to stand up to them, shoulder to shoulder with your brothers and sisters.

The union way is the only way.

[Joe the Revelator]

76. That's such bullshit....

You make 'bosses' sound like some cyborg version of humans.

[Hissyspit]

78. No.

It's not.

He makes them sound like human beings.

[Kablooie]

12. I don't know why companies aren't pushing for single payer insurance.

It would allow them to decrease their payroll costs dramatically.

[Mariana]

15. They have more control over the workers

who are afraid of losing their health insurance benefits. Employers take advantage of that. For years and years, huge numbers of people have stayed at jobs where they're treated badly and paid shit because they need the health insurance. If they quit or get fired and lose that coverage, they put their family's whole future at risk. Even if you got a new job with insurance, they probably wouldn't cover your pre-existing conditions, or there'd be a waiting period. Better to just shut up and stay put and make do with the shitty job.

If those benefits weren't an issue, the workers would be more likely to agitate for better compensation and working conditions. They'd be more likely to walk if they don't get them. I think we'd see more organizing, too. Companies don't want that.

A friend of mine worked at a bakery in Alabama, of all places, that went union a few years ago. You know what the number one argument the company made to the workers to turn them against the union? They told the workers that they'd lose their health insurance if they unionized. Yeah, companies use the hell out of the fear of losing health insurance to keep workers in their place.

Companies may also figure they'll be heavily taxed to pay for single payer and resist it because of that.

[MedicalAdmin]

34. Alot of business's do push for it. They tend to have 2 things in common.

First, they aren't the ones lined up for corporate welfare. Second, they tend to be the ones who can count to 11 without removing socks.

And finally they are NOT represented by the chamber of commerce.

[bobbolink]

95. Love your second one!

I needed the :rofl:

Then, again... *I* have days when the sox must come off.... :rofl:

[MedicalAdmin]

106. Lol . The sox are off now. Bwahahaha n/t

[mmonk]

36. They get their information from the Chamber of Commerce of which

big insurance is part of. So they get propaganda, not facts and figures.

[defendandprotect]

84. Many want to do it -- it's large corporations that keep this from happening ....

because it gives them a hold over employees --

At least that's what I've heard on Thom Hartman's show --

MEDICARE FOR ALL would be another step in uniting the nation in common conern and harmony --

not something the rightwing wants, at all!!

[quinnox]

14. damn

I thought it was going to be something like a glimpse of a UFO in a secret hangar or the like when I saw the headline.

[jtuck004]

16. "...I could plainly see in an instant, why corporations despise unions..."

You know they don't like you either, right? You are an expense, which is something to be reduced so they can maximize profits.

If, or as soon as they can automate your job, you are outa' there. Be careful, they might try and buy you off for a while as a manager, or even more diabolical, fool you into working for less by dangling the prospect of becoming a manager. But that's just a little candy before they tie you to a desk and have a little fun with you. They still don't like you.

Maybe you could get a Union job, enjoy the support of your union brothers and sisters - more power that way. Or become an owner (maybe find a way to use those powers for good).

[pasto76]

59. TRUE DAT

[chillspike]

21. Can you see why workers sometimes despise corporations?

That's what's important.

[iwillalwayswonderwhy]

24. I understood that long before I saw the spreadsheet

Those 1% raises with a high-rated review will take out any respect really quickly.

But we are supposed to say, "oh, in this economy, I just grateful I HAVE a job."

[Stinky The Clown]

28. When you get something that looks like one of these, sign it. In fact, get some and pass them out!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_12MoADI5nyQ/TIkfJZUzAMI/AAAAAAAAACE/oj6CoF_tQ7c/s1600/Picture+1.png

[Papagoose]

31. I didn care much about unions until I realized how much business hates them

Where there's smoke, there's fire.

[lunatica]

When facts slap one upside the head and it makes one ponder

That's a good thing.

The other side of that coin is that it's the union workers who make the corporations those billions they make in profits too. One reason is that when they have unions the workplace is a safer place, thus eliminating a huge cost in safety issues. Look at the mines that fail and cost lives and compare that to say, the Auto Workers union.

[Brickbat]

32. I'm sure the company doesn't mind that went out and that you saw it. The way people are begrudging

things that have been bargained collectively and think "why does he have that" instead of "why don't I have that," they're probably just fine with a little divide-and-conquer.

[sufrommich]

33. It sounds like the company you work for is profitable . Why

would they despise paying the union benefits if they're making a profit.

[Shagbark Hickory]

37. Makes you wonder what the unions would do if we ever got rid of employer-issued healthcare

The unions had supported the public option. That always puzzled me. It's like they're trying to make themselves in large part obsolete.

[blondeatlast]

51. That's one of the most convoluted statements I've read on DU.

The unions aren't single issue by any means.

[Shagbark Hickory]

71. I didn't say they were, sorry if you got that notion.

OR if you ended up in a state of convolution as a result of my reply.

[Mariana]

56. That makes no sense at all.

If health insurance is not an issue to bargain over, you still have issues of compensation, job requirements, time off, retirement, education and training, safety and general working conditions, job security, etc.

[Shagbark Hickory]

70. Why doesn't it make sense?

If employers gave employees everything they ever asked for, would there still be unions?

[Mariana]

77. Of course not, as there'd be no need.

But the post I answered wasn't about EVERYTHING employees ask for, was it? It was about healthcare benefits in particular. If that vanishes as an issue, there's plenty left for the unions to do.

I think the unions favored the public option because it would have been good for the workers.

[Shagbark Hickory]

90. I don't think it would make a difference.

The public option was supposed to cover those who didn't have employer provided insurance.
That's part of why it was so puzzling to me.

These unions fought for health benefits and got them. Then they wanted a public option that their members wouldn't even be eligible for.

There was quite a bit of discussion about this on the cable infotainment channels. I don't think anyone ever had an answer as to why this was except to say it was just good in general. And it is, but I for one wondered if they were just running out of things to fight for.

[nonperson]

105. It doesn't make sense because you're using useless hypotheticals

Employers NEVER give employees everything they ask for. Show me when they have! Employers abused labor and would continue to abuse labor if it wasn't for labor uniting in UNIONS to put an end to the sweat shop death traps and child labor. UNIONS insisted on decent working conditions, decent wages, benefits, retirement, sick pay, vacation time, THE FORTY HOUR WORK WEEK.

To even suggest that employers would give employees everything they ask for is to not only ignore the history of capital/labor relations but also completely falsify that history. It just doesn't happen that way in capital markets. They are in business for their own profit and their labor force is just another entry in the loss column of their profit and loss statements.

If you're being treated well in your job thank unions since you're only being treated well because your employer doesn't want unions in their work place. When they finally destroy all unions in this insane, idiotic nation get back to us then and tell us how well they're treating you. I'm sure we'll all be as surprised as you are when you're treated like labor was at the turn of the nineteenth/twentieth century. You'll be back to slave wages and child labor in sweat shops with nothing, no vacation, retirement, or benefits of any kind.

[Snoutport]

41. should the employees who make the product get the benefit of their work

or just the top two or three employees and the CEO?

Join up!

[cbdo2007]

43. So you are paying more so that the Union people can pay less?

And you are mad at who again?

You should be mad at the unions for not treating YOU fairly.

[Fumesucker]

44. I'm sure the union just doesn't want to organize the location where the OP works..

The laws of the state where he/she lives couldn't possibly have anything to do with it, it's those evil unions that only want to organize _some_ workers.

[blondeatlast]

52. I was about to saaaay... I'm in one of the original Right to Be Screwed

states and that was my very first thought.

[CrispyQ]

48. The OP isn't a union member.

That's the whole point. The union negotiated with management & got a better benefits package for it's member workers. Non-union workers are SOL. Collective bargaining benefits workers, not management. It is not the unions fault that all workers are not allowed to join or form unions.

[hay rick]

73. I get it.

She should be mad at the unions for having decent benefits instead of being mad at the employer for giving everybody else crappy benefits.

I get it.

[defendandprotect]

85. No ... he's paying more because the corporations want to pay less... and they can get away with it .

because he's non-union !!

[sita]

45. Could you help me understand what you are pondering?

I don't feel sorry for corporations. Are they losing revenue? Every time I turn around, I hear about corporations reaping greater profits than ever. What I have told people grousing about others who work for the government or get good bennies, is that they should be happy for them! Because everyone being ground down to a Third World economy is not the answer! We cannot say: "well, I have crummy pay/no insurance so neither should you!"

[revolution breeze]

47. I wonder

how many other people got the e-mail by mistake and looked at the information? The time could be right to organize!

[badtoworse]

50. Keep your mouth shut, no matter how tempting it is to gossip about it.

[Gman]

63. O-R-G-A-N-I-Z-E!!!

Sounds like great info to leak to start an organizing drive. It's not like it's a secret if anyone were to ask any of the union members.

[savannah43]

65. This is not a new business practice, but your discovery

and airing it is timed very well.

[notadmblnd]

74. Union members elected officials who negotiated with the employer for the terms of the benefit

The Employers agreed. A gun wasn't held to their heads. That's a benefit of being a union member. You should not be resentful of the Union member's negotiated benefits because if your employer couldn't afford them, they never would have agreed to to them if that were the case.

What you should be resentful about is how your employer exploits you- because you are not a union member! in fact, I'd bet that making you pay more for health insurance, isn't the only way they're exploiting their non-union employees.

[iwillalwayswonderwhy]

I definitely am NOT resentful of union members

Please reread what I wrote.

[NNN0LHI]

108. Don't worry because I didn't sense any resentment in your OP

I am sure it was just a misunderstanding.

Thank you for the post too.

:hi:

Don

[defendandprotect]

80. Interesting -- and also that it is TABOO for employees to discuss salaries and benefits ...

and it's corporations which profit from that secrecy!!

Good for you!!

[Jakes Progress]

83. Hush now. You're killing the bad unions vibe that some on DU are pushing.

[southernyankeebelle]

87. Just think if it were for the unions what little benefits we do get wouldn't of happen. Thank

a union worker. People especially in the south just don't get it about unions and the benefits they helped everyone get. I have tried to talk to people but they don't care as long as they got their little ole pay check, a pickup truck and beer they are happy as a pig in mud. You can't reason with stupid. You just can't. But I always make sure to let a union worker know I support them.

[guruoo]

93. glassdoor.com Employer reviews

You can post your concerns anonymously here

http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/index.htm

[EC]

94. I'd sure find out what it takes to get one of the

union jobs. Rather it's an apprenticeship or more school or whatever.

[bertman]

96. REC. nt.

[Omaha Steve]

98. Time to join the union and organize

PM me and I'll get you to the right place.

And THANK YOU for posting. K&R!

[JohnnyRingo]

99. I guess they could have decided not to negotiate the health benefits and focused instead on...

... higher hourly wages, vacation time, and profit sharing, but they wisely decided that they had a spouse and children to take care of.

While all union workers earn the same hourly amount, management employees refuse to discuss their salaries because they insist that they be judged on performance and don't want the same pay as the idiot in the next cubicle or department. They have a no-ceiling cap on personal pay advance, and strive to achieve performance bonuses that aren't available to the union guys.

I say if a company man is envious of the benefits of organized labor, form your own union and take the whole package instead of cherry picking only the best parts of a union contract. I don't think there will be any takers among those movers and shakers.

[cliffordu]

100. Mail it to EVERYONE in the company.

[ThomWV]

109. Union Members negotiated for their benefits, you took what the scraps they gave you.

This is a no-brainer - join a Union. Organize your workplace.