Does President Obama believe in the rapture stuff?

[quinnox]

He is a Christian right? So he believes in the Jesus as savior and son of God stuff, but what about the rapture? I'm not familiar with what his particular denomination believes on this one.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. The Rapture thing is not mainstream - it's a fringe evangelical belief.

I believe Obama is/was a member of the United Church of Christ, which is a very mainstream, liberal Protestant denomination that does not accept the Rapture as legitimate doctrine.

[quinnox]

2. I see, thanks

I'm not familiar with the details regarding the rapture and Christianity.

[Cherchez la Femme]

20. I wouldn't call it fringe

the Reich Wing Christian evangelicals are fairly numerous.
...something approaching 25-30% of the population IIRC
although not totally sure if that is among total population of Christians or the general population, although I believe the latter.


Gotta run right now, I'll try to look it up later

[Avant Guardian]

3. The bible says nothing about christians being raptured

It does, however, talk about something like this happening to JEWS.

[quinnox]

4. Jews raptured?

huh, weird stuff.

[Avant Guardian]

6. Yeah, it says 144k Jews will convert to christianity then float up into outer space, or whatever

The religious right conveniently ignore that part.

My aunt's response to that it, 'We're the lost tribe of Israel.' I ask her how that is possible given she is half English and half Irish, with no jewish blood. She just says something stupid like, it's a miracle'.

[cali]

14. lol. where in the bible does it say anything like this?

[RainDog]

27. I think that's a Jehovah's Witness belief

I don't know of any other denomination that believes this - but that doesn't mean there aren't others.

[Avant Guardian]

36. The 'rapture' part is a theory that comes from the 7th day adventists

It's a bunch of convoluted BS that idiot Christians in the US have latched onto.

[RainDog]

37. ah, thanks. I get the two confused

when I was growing up, the fundies considered the 7th day adventists, jehovah's witness, catholics and mormons as deluded by satan and took delight in knowing they would be shown the error of their ways by suffering during the tribulation.

because god is love.

[Avant Guardian]

35. I went to a parochial school for 8 years

I had the bible pounded into my head all the way up to 8th grade.

lol

[regnaD kciN]

41. Actually, it says nothing of the sort...

In Revelation 7, there is a mention of 144,000 "servants" of God, twelve thousand each from the twelve tribes of Israel, but hthere's no mention of them being taken up into the sky or anything. Keeping in mind that, from internal evidence, Revelation was written as a coded message to encourage first-century Christians undergoing persecution, rather than as a prediction of the "end of the world," it's not too easy to tell what was intended here. Does the servants being mentioned as being from the twelve tribes of Israel mean they are supposed to be actual Jews, or merely that, since early Christianity claimed to be the "true Israel," does it just mean Christians. Since twelve was a number connoting completion in that culture, something that was 12 x 12 (x 1000) was probably meant an ultra-complete totality of believers, rather than an actual precise number. It doesn't say that they were to be lifted off of the earth, but that they had to be "sealed." Since part of the ritual of baptism at the time included anointing with holy oil (considered being "sealed with the Holy Spirit"), it seems equally possible that this passage merely meant that any culmination of God's action in the world would be held off, by God's own command, until everyone who would seek to become a follower of Jesus had been baptized.

The "rapture," on the other hand, comes from a literalistic misreading of a passage in the first letter of Paul to the Thessalonians. At the time that letter was written (very early in the years after Jesus), it was assumed the "second coming" would be happening any day now, so that all the followers could be taken up into the kingdom of God straightaway. Thus, there was the concern about converts who, due to age or accident, died before that could occur. Would that mean they had missed out on salvation? In answer to this question, Paul writes:

But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters, about those who have died, so that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have died. For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will by no means precede those who have died. For the Lord himself, with a cry of command, with the archangel's call and with the sound of God's trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air; and so we will be with the Lord forever.

It seems clear that the entire passage is a response to the issue mentioned in the first line. Thus the passage uses poetic imagery to get across the point of all Christians, dead and still alive, being taken up into the new dimension ("the air") that is the presence of God. Indeed, as far as I can tell, no Christian leaders or theologians considered this to be a literal description of an event for the first 1,600 years of Christian history. It only became a doctrine among Puritans here in the American colonies, and then picked up by John Darby, the British co-founder of the Plymouth Brethren in the nineteenth century, but remained obscure until popularized by Hal Lindsay in "The Late Great Planet Earth" in the 1970s.

[RainDog]

43. great post. thanks n/t

[RainDog]

5. rapture is a literalist/fundamentalist and pentecostal belief.

there are subsets of other denominations who also teach this belief but, afaik, they're not considered mainstream for their denomination.

[Enrique]

7. he said "left behind" in his radio address today

coincidence?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x585355

[Autumn]

13. I think not

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Good one :thumbsup:

[RainDog]

23. LOLOLOL n/t

[JVS]

8. Here are two wikipedia articles to kind of fill in the background.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_eschatology
Which is an offshoot of
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_eschatology

Now, as far as how important this stuff is to daily operations of the various churches, I suggest you look at the three historical creeds (Nicene, Apostles, Athanasian). The reason I suggest these creeds is that the creeds themselves were developed as statements of the essential aspects of the faith, with Athanasian being a long-winded proclamation of the trinity. The most extensive thing about the end times the creeds have to say is that Christ will come to judge the living and the dead, the dead will rise from their graves (a carry over from traditional Jewish eschatology). Details have traditionally been the speculation of theologians. Note that the creeds don't even spell out the immediate fate of the deceased, merely that a Christian believes in "life everlasting".

[ProSense]

9. Interesting

"Does President Obama believe in the rapture stuff? He is a Christian right? So he believes in the Jesus as savior and son of God stuff..."

Who was the last non-Christian President?

Does Clinton and Carter believe in "the rapture stuff"?

Have you seen Hillary today? I mean, she believes in "the Jesus as savior and son of God stuff"?

What about the Christian Kucinich?

[quinnox]

11. always so touchy about Obama

The reason I ask about him is he is THE PRESIDENT RIGHT NOW. I don't know about the rapture, and Christianity has all sorts of offshoot denominations and groups that believe different things. Jesus! I don't care about those other presidents, my question had to do with Obama.

Are you embarrassed he is a Christian or something? I don't know why you get so mad otherwise.

[ProSense]

16. Always the stupid questions about Obama

"The reason I ask about him is he is THE PRESIDENT RIGHT NOW."

Bullshit! He's the President, not a lunatic.

What did you think: He has been secretly preparing for the end of he world...today?

Absurd.

[quinnox]

18. Preparing for the end of the world? WTF are you serious?

No, I didn't think he was doing that! You pulled that out some nether dimension. I only wanted to know if he was aboard as a Christian on the belief in the rapture. And you get all insulted as usual, when a question is asked about President Obama.

I'm not an expert on Christianity, so sue me!

[ProSense]

19. " I only wanted to know if he was aboard as a Christian on the belief in the rapture."

You wanted to know if the President was on board with a lunatic fringe concept?

Let me borrow your quote: "WTF are you serious?"

[quinnox]

26. reading your responses in this thread

I'm not going to discuss this with you any further. I don't know what your problem is today, but you are attacking people left and right, and I don't want any part of that.

[ProSense]

28. Let's

review:

My first reponse to the OP

Your response to my comment

Hypocrisy: "I don't know what your problem is today, but you are attacking people left and right, and I don't want any part of that."

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sylvi]

34. The Rapture is not a lunatic fringe concept in Christianity

any more than, say, the idea of transubstantiation.

Claiming to be able to fortell the exact day and hour, that is lunatic fringe.

[regnaD kciN]

42. Actually, it is...

None of the main Christian bodies teach such a doctrine -- only a subset of the fundamentalists.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

24. "Those stupids with all their stupid questions!"

Was Obama born in the U.S.?

Is he a Muslim?

Is he black enough?

You're onto something.

[treestar]

32. Why does any President's religion matter?

Or the various types of doctrines?

It's obsession with Obama to ask about this. Why Obama? What about anyone else?

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blondeatlast]

10. He belonged to a UCC church (as I do) before he resigned.

some of my brethren (and even a few elders) were having a little fun at Camping's expense this week.

UCC doesn't believe it, so I rather doubt that he does. Most of us think Camping's a dangerous sunuvabitch.

[Very_Boring_Name]

12. I grew up catholic and can't remember even hearing the term "rapture" until after I left high school

I'm pretty sure the rapture is a fringe concept.

[Cherchez la Femme]

25. Let's put it this way: It's not in the bible

As for 144,000 Jews being converted & 'raptured'; I never heard of that,
& of course do not know the biblical verses prophesying such.

[kestrel91316]

17. I seriously doubt it. I think, despite appearances, he is probably

a Christmas Christian. Or even agnostic.

He just knows how to play the game.

[mentalsolstice]

29. Great! Another thread to broadbrush all Christians as being crazy

However, this being DU, it's acceptable. BTW, I'm agnostic...I just hate seeing broadbrush attacks on certain groups...religious, ethnic, class, region of the country, etc.

[quinnox]

30. Nope, I don't think all Christians are crazy

Not my intention at all.

On the contrary, I respect that people have the freedom to their beliefs, and freedom of religion. Some of my best friends are Mormon, so I know what I'm talking about when it comes to tolerance, believe me.

[mentalsolstice]

33. My FiL was raised Mormon...

and I have Mormon cousins, and they didn't buy into the rapture. I'm referring to your OP that questions ANYONE who affiliates with a Christian denomination, like Pres. Obama, will buy into the rapture.

[Arkana]

31. No, because not all Christians are idiots.

Why do you think that they are?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

38. i bet he doesn't. nt

[WilliamPitt]

40. (facepalm x facepalm)

(= facepalm)