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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 11:23 AM
Original message
John Steinbeck quote: Socialism never took root in America because
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Drale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
1. That is 100% true
I can't tell you how many times I've heard people say, "We can't tax the rich because when I'm rich I won't want to be taxed." They truly believe that they are on their way to becoming rich.
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. If I suddenly got enough money to be in the top bracket.
It wouldn't bother me one bit to pay it. What would be leftover would be more than enough.
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madmax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Geez, I wish I could think like that
I wouldn't worry about bills everyday and saving a few bucks for that proverbial rainy day.

Being a realist is not that much fun, but fantasy land never did appeal to me either. I don't even buy lottery tickets. I view EVERYTHING as rigged, from the stock market to the church raffle. I wish I wasn't like this but, I can't help it - I should stop reading.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. Why not buy lottery tickets? Sure, the odds are ridiculous., So are the
odds of getting hit by lightning - but I'll but you don't go golfing during a thunderstorm.

Two sides of the same coin.
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madmax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. You make a good point but,
Edited on Mon May-16-11 12:11 PM by madmax
I'm from NJ my whole life until we moved to NC 4 years ago. I wish I new then, I'd have moved sooner. :)

Let's see - the proceeds from the lottery were to go to education. Huh ? Property taxes sky high - schools? Huh?

Nearly every cow path is a toll road, did I mention we have high property taxes, if not the highest in the country.

Atlantic City - where does all the tax revenue from AC go? And much more nickel and dimeing.

I'll just depend on what we make, what we save, and how we invest. My grand baby needs a new pair of shoes.
:P

P.S. I don't play golf either. I think it's a waste of good land and a stupid game. ok, I'm ducking :rofl:
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littlewolf Donating Member (920 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. I always thought the Lotto was a tax on people who cant do math ... nt
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Volaris Donating Member (479 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. It is. In my family, its called the State Idiot Tax. None of us pay it.
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Roci Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #19
48. lotteries, and a wise man
Benjamin Franklin once said that lotteries were wonderful. They tax only the willing.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #19
66. My brother says...
..."you know, you can just give me a dollar and I'll call you a loser".

:-)


Of course, a buck a week buys an awful lot of dreaming.

I'd buy Star 99.9 out of Bridgeport and turn it into a liberal talk radio station because GOD HELP ME THE LAST THING WE NEED IS MORE LITE FM!!!!





*ahem*.


Sorry.
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madmax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #66
68. I completely agree with your brother,. n/t
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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 03:02 AM
Response to Reply #19
73. my grandfather won 2 million dollars
he slipped money to my parents to pay for college and grad school, my family would have never had such chances had grandpa not won those 2 million playing the lotto. i got back from a white sox game and we found a note from mom saying "my father won the lotto and is a millionaire" and we couldnt believe it. idiot tax? the "idiot" paid for my schooling.
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. funny thing is, a temporarily embarassed millionaire would be screaming for a bailout
to immediately restore him to his rightful position. he would scream for welfare and low taxes for the poor, free education, whatever it was that he needed.

THEN once he became an ACTUAL millionaire, THEN AND ONLY THEN would he start screaming for low tax rates for millionaires. after all, he shouldn't be taxed as a self-made man, right?
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russspeakeasy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
71. You hang with more optimistic people than I do.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
2. That is a great quote
And it goes double for the middle class - so many think they are there temporarily until they get rich.
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harmonicon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 03:41 AM
Response to Reply #2
74. Come now, there's no middle class. nt.
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nxylas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #74
85. Sure there are
They live in Eerie, Indiana* along with Elvis and Sasquatch.

*=Am I the only person who remembers that show?
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harmonicon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #85
91. I totally remember that show!
Though, admittedly, I don't remember it well enough to recall characters' names or episode details, I remember the general premise. What was that, like 20 years ago? More?
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nxylas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #91
93. Something like that
1990s, I think. I remember Joe Dante was behind it.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
5. This is how the vast majority of Republicans feel...
Just waiting for their turn to justify their own greed.
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
6. Who Wants to be a Millionaire?



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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #6
42. Did that really happen? Did she really answer that way? Geesh!!
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Shining Jack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #42
52. What? She gave the right answer.
The moon is barely bigger than a quarter! :)
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Vogon_Glory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
7. He's Still Right.
IMO, the reason that the TEA Party has been so successful is because a lot of the less-educated and less well-off folks who voted for them don't want to look at themselves and accept that they have very different economic interests than the billionaire Republican Party campaign donors and the Republican politicians that cater to them.
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Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #7
84. They buy their respectable Republican cloth coats made in China at Walmart.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
11. Now more than ever
Recommended
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
12. the ignorant masses of this nation all believe they are one scouting report from
being a professional athlete, one ticket from winning the lottery, one moment from being discovered the next internet star and one casting call away from being a famous dancer, rap star, singer, actor, etc.

They believe they are just moments away from being discoved as that unknown genius who will save us all from ourselves.

We live in a delusion of childish stupidity.

How did we get here? I have my opinions, but I will keep them to myself. I don't want to get into a flame war.
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Mugweed Donating Member (939 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #12
80. and the ignorant masses vote against their self interest every time
I, for one, am well aware that I'm one pay reduction, one hours reduction, or one layoff from the so-called American Dream being flushed down the toilet. I played by the rules I learned throughout middle and high school, got a good college education and worked for 20 years, worked my way into upper management. Now I find that if my company closes, not many other people will want to hire me. I'm overqualified, will resent working for younger and less experienced managers, or will just hold the position temporarily until something better comes along (as told to me by some of my peers who have already experienced the effects of the Bush economy and have been to a handful of job interviews). I didn't get to this point because I am delusional in thinking was was a step away from prosperity. I was just trying to maintain a life, contribute to society, and save for that day when I could retire for a year or two.

I got here because I actually believed that if you worked hard you could become successful. All I've done is make profits for others and will be tossed aside when the going gets too rough.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #80
82. You aren't a member of the ignorant mass...
Edited on Tue May-17-11 07:46 AM by Javaman
you are a member of the working class like the rest of us. Who believed that if you put in a honest days work, paid your taxes and did right by your family, in the end you would be able to retire aan live a peaceful life.

As I grow older and realized that I will die at my desk, the scales have fallen completely away from my eyes.

We few, we happy few, we band of suckers have been had by professional politicians who have zero in common with us and not knowing of our plight.

The ignorant of us who threw away hope (not talking about political platforms) for republican pie in the sky stupidity, those are the ones I'm referring to.

We who see the game for what it is, our hope, our dreams are crushed by the rich and fed back to us as it all being our own fault for wanting a better life.

We now watch the casino of stupidity that is on display in congress with the debt ceiling. The grand game of chicken at our expense.

They don't give a damn about us, it's all about getting the last word and an edge over the other party.

While there are two drivers heading for the cliff, each other eying whether or not the other will jump out first, however, it always seems that everyone forgets about the cars. Those cars are driving the two chicken playing morons. Who represents those cars? We do. So whatever happens, if one or both of the chicken playing moron politicians jumps out of their respective cars, the cars still go over the cliff.

So sometimes I wonder who is better off? We who understand our suffering or the right wing mouth breathing morons who think they are one genius invention away from "solving everything"?

Either way, the way down looks the same.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
13. Wow. That's so totally it. Steinbeck
was the all time master at saying it perfectly-capturing the essence of an idea and effectively conveying it as succinctly as is possible with language.

Thanks for the keeper.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
14. Americans were spared from that horrible period of "capital formation" that the Britons endured
The wealth of the country was built on the backs and the lungs of the working class. Children were forced to work in knitting mills. Hours were long. Housing was ghastly.

When America began developing, the "established" capital flowed from Britain to America and bought the machines and infrastructure. Factory workers had it better than those a century earlier.
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Patiod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #14
53. Wasn't our wealth built on slavery? Both North and South
I could be wrong - this isn't my specialty, but that's what I always understoond.
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #53
56. Yes it was...
... and the gilded age was not a very nice time if you were one of the 90% of Americans working hard to make that capital flow upwards.

I disagree with the previous poster, Americans were not "spared" which is why the labor movement had some of their most important events happen in the US.
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. "90% ... working hard to make that capital flow upwards" -
hmmm sounds familiar
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #53
58. No
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LooseWilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 04:11 AM
Response to Reply #58
75. Yes
One small example: "An Imperfect Institution: Slavery’s Legacy at Washington College"
http://revcollege.washcoll.edu/struggleandstrength/slavery.html
As part of a national trend, many of the nation’s foremost educational and financial institutions are attempting to unveil the role slavery played in their histories. The same can now be said for the first college founded in the United States. This paper will attempt to demonstrate the close relationship Washington College had with slavery and how it permeated even the most intimate of daily activities—from student housing to gambling and drinking. Slave labor also built the fortunes of the initial donors to the College, many of whom assisted in the founding of the country as well. Without the collective work of roughly 4,000 enslaved black men and women, it is reasonable to assume that William Smith, D.D. would have failed to collect the necessary money to even build the College. Eastern Shore slaves also helped fire the kilns used to make the bricks that built Washington College from the ground up. At least a few of those buildings remain standing in the twenty-first century, an ironic monument as slaves were frequently denied an education of their own.


Likewise, the slave trade helped create the capital in the UK which was then turned around and invested in the textile industries... which turned around and bought a lot of cotton from US slave states... and then turned around and sold the textiles to India to make money to pay for the opium which was then sold to the Chinese...

So slavery, slavery, imperialism, drug trade... the real foundations of the capitalist system of the modern world. Yaay West!! ;)
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #75
86. You are trying to change the subject
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provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
15. False hope is the most American of all beliefs.
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Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
16. Not only that...
but for decades now politicians have been lying to the American working class and telling them they're "middle class". How do you eliminate the possibility of socialist revolution? Destroy class-consciousness and eliminate the idea of a proletariat, that's how. (Cf. the constant references on DU and among people who should really know better to the growing plight of the middle class, when they really mean "the working class".)
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Rozlee Donating Member (821 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #16
63. You've made an excellent point.
I've had arguments before with people who complained that everything was being done for the poor and nothing for "those of us in the middle class." When I pointed out to them that the salary they were making as an LVN with 2 kids, or two bus drivers with 3 kids meant they were actually poor, they didn't believe me. No one wants to believe they're poor or eligible for food stamps when they're living this fantasy that they're part of the American dream.
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
17. Yep. The American capacity for self-delusion is astounding.

nt


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W_HAMILTON Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
18. Wow, that's a great quote.
How true.
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truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Isn't it? Sums it up perfectly...
...silly bastards...
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
21. LOL! Funny quote, but...
...as with all pithy quotes--especially the ones that make you laugh--be aware that some important things can't be said pithily.

For instance, the U.S. government and economy ended up compromising with labor, to prevent a communist revolution here. The "social contract" that resulted guaranteed good jobs, and decent wages and benefits for most people, minimum pensions for the elderly (Social Security--a pay-in system), easily available, free college educations (most state universities free or nearly free for several decades, plus free community colleges), unemployment compensation insurance (a pay-in system), many "common good" programs and services (libraries, parks, hospitals, museums, general relief for the indigent, FHA home loans, protected deposits in Savings and Loan institution, a "progressive tax" (fair taxation), the "Fairness Doctrine" in TV/radio broadcasting, and more), and eventually Medicare (guaranteed health care for the elderly and disabled--also a pay-in system), and Head Start, VISTA, the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act and other programs to help the poorest.

You could say, as Steinbeck says, that the poor have swallowed the propaganda of the rich--that they, too, can be rich--and that is why "socialism never took root" here. But, as a matter of fact, some forms of socialism DID take root because the poor were NOT fooled. The poor--the victims of the Depression, the workers, the middle class, the family farmers, labor unions and others--INSISTED ON and GOT many socialist concessions--and, in turn, promised to be (or were bullied into being) not too leftist, and especially not communist.

The period of the 1930s through the 1970s was essentially one long labor negotiation about socialism. The oligarchs began breaking the contract, and going back on their word, with the Reagan Junta--busting unions, ending the "progressive tax," deregulating the Savings and Loan institutions and permitting them to be looted, killing a lot of people in Latin America who were trying to get their own "social contract," ending the "Fairness Doctrine" in broadcast media, and pushing the Michael Jackson's and the Liz Taylor's of this world as examples to our children of the joys of being rich. I remember when the "People" section of my corporate newspaper got moved to page 2 of the main news section and began to be treated as important news, and not a week went by when Michael Jackson and Liz Taylor were not featured, for years and years, until their deaths (and even afterwards, until Jackson's story became even a bit too icky for the corporate newsmongers).

The Reagan Junta--and its aftermath, to the Bush Junta (totally controlled news, the Supreme Court appointing a president who didn't win the election, and Diebold/ES&S doing the vote 'counting' ever since, the Patriot Act, the U.S. torturing prisoners as official policy, three corporate oil wars, prisons packed with minor drug offenders, corporations outsourcing millions of jobs and paying no taxes, etc.)--are things that Steinbeck could not have known about and I doubt could have predicted. (He died in 1968.) He was premising his remark on a different and more decent country in which prosperity was shared and equal opportunity was the goal. (--can't find the source of this quote; don't know its exact year, but in any case the endstop is '68--it cannot have been said later--and I suspect it's late '50s/early '60s).

Also, this is a VERY broad generalization--that the poor in America "see themselves...as embarassed millionaires"--and it is patronizing, in that it places the blame for poverty on the poor. How does Steinbeck know this about "the poor" in America? He only hung out with a few of them, and in the latter part of his life was a famous author. I don't know if he was rich but he certainly wasn't poor.

The quote is much too easy a dismissal of the poor in general, and it encourages what I think is a bad tendency on the Left to consider other Americans stupid, ignorant fools--without, for instance, understanding where we get much of our impression of other Americans--from the corpo-fascist media. This may also be a self-forgiving sort of view, whereby leftists explain their failures at grass roots organization. It's because the poor want to be millionaires!

Grass roots organization in current conditions in the U.S. is very difficult--and I don't think that it's fair and true to place the blame for this on the poor. I think we need to look to the grass roots efforts in Latin America--and their amazing success at electing leftist governments--to see how rightwing/corporate dictatorships can be turned into leftist and socialist democracies. It is not easy but it can done, and is being done. Honest, transparent election systems is one key to their success--a long difficult slog on basic civics. But perhaps before that, you have to believe in "the People."
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. +1000 x 1000
:applause:

This should be an OP

Steinbeck's quote is bullshit and an insult to impoverished people. Substitute the word "poor" with "middle class" or "bourgeoisie" then we'll talk.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. Thank you. It is so easy to vilify "THEM" and feel oh, so superior.
I appreciate your words of balance.. it is a tragedy that it needs to be said.

:yourock:
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CanSocDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. Good post.


Had to be said.

"I think we need to look to the grass roots efforts in Latin America--and their amazing success at electing leftist governments--to see how rightwing/corporate dictatorships can be turned into leftist and socialist democracies. It is not easy but it can done, and is being done."

Absolutely!!

.
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white_wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #28
65. That is a very good point.
However, it should be pointed out that those countries did not get there by voting for a series of lesser of two evil candidates, they got sick of the evil and got rid of it. See what you will of Chavez, but he is doing good things for Venezuela.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #65
92. Well, as a matter of fact many of them did transition from rightwing dictatorships...
...through "lesser of two evil" governments, during the '90s, to true leftist and socialist democracies today, but I don't think our situation is exactly parallel in this respect, and I would hesitate to draw any lesson from it for our situation.

The U.S. supported rightwing dictatorships in Latin America were heinous dictatorships--they tortured and murdered thousands of people. The jackboot repression was truly terrible. The way out of it was to restore constitutional government, but, as here, this does not mean fair or leftist or socialist government; it merely means the "rule of law"--more respect for human life and for human and civil rights. The wealth and power of the elite--enhanced, of course, during the dictatorship periods--remained the controlling factor in politics and government, and these elites proceeded to ally with U.S. corporate rulers and banksters on "neo-liberal" policy that caused catastrophic failures of Latin American economies.

When this occurred, in the '90s, the elites were lucky that the poor didn't rise up and slit their throats. It is rather a miracle that they did not. Instead, they got organized, using the tools available in a semi-democracy--free speech, protest, marches, infrastructure shutdowns, electoral politics--seeking a peaceful, democratic solution to the abject poverty that "neo-liberalism" had created (poverty that also affected the middle class and small businesses). This struggle was not without violence and bloodshed--all of it on the government side, against protestors.* But the perseverance of grass roots groups, and the diligent, on-going civic work on honest elections, paid off.

I am generalizing a lot of different situations and countries, but I think this is an accurate general description of what occurred in the many countries that today have leftist or socialist governments in Latin America (with focus on South America). All of them had the problem of "lesser of two evil" governments and of entrenched rich elites controlling Tweedle dee-Tweedle-dum political parties. These parties essentially self-destructed--by failure to represent workers and the poor--and in most cases new parties were formed that represented the majority (except in Brazil, where the Workers Party has persisted through it all). Constitutional reform (which Latin Americans undertake more easily than we do) was also a factor. New constitutions were written and debated and submitted to the voters and were overwhelmingly approved. These established or strengthened human and civil rights and reorganized governments with the aim of breaking untoward power by entrenched rich elites and foreign (mostly U.S. corporate/war profiteer) control.

Repercussions from the period of heinous, bloody-handed, fascist dictatorships continue to this day. At first, during the period when people were struggling merely to re-establish constitutional government, the perps were mostly protected. Today, with democracy on a firmer footing, investigations, prosecutions and trials are going forward. In fact, Argentina just requested the U.S. government to open its secret files, so that babies who were stolen from their murdered leftist parents during the dictatorship period, can be identified and learn who their parents were. The Obama government refused, no doubt because the U.S. was complicit in those atrocities.

This ON-GOING reminder of how bad the U.S.-supported, fascist dictatorships were, re-enforces Latin Americans' devotion to democracy, sovereignty, cooperation amongst themselves (collective clout of the region) and social justice. This is a history that we do not have and also the U.S. role in inflicting these horrors on our neighbors in the hemisphere has mostly been hidden from our people. We do NOT have a history of leftists being thrown out of airplanes, or thousands packed into stadiums and shot, or babies stolen from pregnant women who were murdered, or hundreds of protestors slaughtered, nor the struggle for constitutional government (rule of law) that ensued and that was greatly influenced by these events. The "lesser of two evils" that at first resulted WAS better than what went before. It provided the political space for real democracy to be established.

Our situation is unique in this respect, in that our country has been SLOWLY turned into a dangerous security state, with an humongous war profiteering aspect to it, and our laws have been GRADUALLY changed to benefit the super-rich and transglobal corporations, with, I think, very special attention paid to preserving the ILLUSION of democracy HERE. The Latin Americans have NO illusions about the dictatorships that ripped into their societies with such murderous methods.

But our people DO have illusions--not because they're stupid but because the illusions are more clever. Even I have the delusion that my vote may count for something, even though I know that ES&S/Diebold--a far rightwing corporation--has an 80% monopoly on the 'TRADE SECRET' voting systems in this country--and, even in my progressive state, is likely throwing my vote away when it suits them. I know the whole story of the rightwing/corporate coup d'etat in our voting system, and I still vote. Maybe it will help, I think. I vote for alternatives in the primaries. I hold my nose and vote for the Corporate Democrat of the day in the general election. If ES&S/Diebold is looking the other way, in some electoral situation, maybe my vote will help a good person to slip unnoticed into limited power.

I also, simply, WILL NOT give up my right to vote--even if it is exercised in futility. To me, it is sacred--was achieved by the blood of many martyrs of democracy. I don't vote blindly, though, as many people do, not realizing that, if their vote doesn't suit the corporate/war profiteer powers and whatever narrative they are running, it will be--and can EASILY be--tossed by these corporate-run, 'TRADE SECRET' voting machines.

We have a different set of problems as a society and as a once great democracy than Latin Americans have. There are parallels and there are divergences. But there are most certainly lessons to be drawn from their success. I tend to sum the lessons up this way:

1. Transparent vote counting.

2. Grass roots organization.

3. Think big!

Transparent vote counting: The Latin Americans have had both venomously rightwing/corporate media and "big money" influencing elections (--billions of OUR money, for instance, to rightwing groups through agencies like the USAID). The grass roots can overcome bad media and bad money IF they have transparent vote counting. They've done it in Latin America. I don't know if that's true of us, right now, but without transparent vote counting, we will never know, will we? So that is No. 1 on my list--we MUST restore transparent vote counting (still a doable project, in my opinion--not easy, but doable). It is the bottom line of democracy, even if it results in only half-way decent, semi-democratic candidates being elected to office. Maybe we can convince that half-way decent, semi-democrat to start putting some controls on corporate money, or to support labor unions. Right now, with ES&S/Diebold's lock on our voting results, not even minor reform is possible. We are being run right off the cliff into fascism--and brutal fascism may not be far behind.

Grass roots organization: Very difficult in the U.S. I won't go into all of its difficulties here. I will just say that much of the design of the fascist plotters who have been destroying our progressive country over a period of several decades has recently been focused on DEMORALIZING grass roots efforts. I noticed this first in 2004, when the grass roots seriously mobilized to elect Kerry, and for instance, matched the Bush-Cheney money machine, dollar for dollar--and the huge deflation and demoralization that occurred when that election was stolen. Our grass roots did not have much of a solid foundation to fall back upon. It was a temporary mobilization, driven by the outrages of the Bush Junta, especially the war on Iraq--and it deflated like a popped balloon after that first major Diebold (s)election (abetted by a lot of racist vote suppression and other crimes, which isn't necessary any more, since ES&S--which recently bought out Diebold--now controls virtually the entire electronic 'TRADE SECRET' voting system in the U.S.).

This demoralization or weakness of the grass roots, following 2004, was partly due to the Reaganites' and Clintonites' prior work to smash labor unions. But it was also due to the gradualism of the fascist plot design. The Clintonites led us down the garden path, and no one was prepared for the Bush Junta. The Democratic Party just fell over and died, without a fight. The Democratic leadership's acquiescence to the corporate-run, 'TRADE SECRET' vote counting was the key moment, in my opinion. (Anthrax Congress, Oct. '02--same month as the Iraq War Resolution). The party of the working class--of labor, of the poor, of excluded minorities and of professionals and business people with a conscience--the party of FDR and the "New Deal"--was OVER. The party that used to rally the poor majority no longer exists, and whether or not the poor majority can reclaim it--or needs to suffer through MORE fascist government in order to organize a NEW party--is an open question. i really don't know the answer to that. And I don't think that the Latin American precedents are much help.

Our country is much bigger, and much more diverse, than any Latin American country, and is the capitol of an enormous empire of transglobal corporate and war profiteer interests, and very special efforts have been made to keep our basically progressive, democratic people asleep, and to gradually deprive us of our sovereign power as a people (even to the very counting of our votes--the chief mechanism by which we transfer portions of OUR sovereignty to our public SERVANTS ). And now all sorts of subtle and overt systems have been put in place to spy on us, propagandize us and to disrupt any serious national, or even local, grass roots organization. So it may really and truly be that the Democratic Party is our only option--that is, working to reclaim it. We do not HAVE the grass roots organization to do anything else, at the moment.

The ONLY potential grass roots movement that I can see truly affecting our situation is a widespread LOCAL movement against the 'TRADE SECRET' voting machines. PUBLIC vote counting is so basic that it crosses virtually all political lines. It is also exemplary of our larger problem--the Corporate Rulers controlling everything, even the very counting of our votes, with "TRADE SECRET" code no less. This issue cannot easily be polarized. It is an American issue as opposed to a Democratic or Republican issue. And since the Anthrax Congress did NOT mandate corporate e-voting--but accomplished this coup d'etat through corruption ($3.9 billion e-voting boondoggle; filthy lobbying)--the power over voting systems still resides at the local/state level, where ordinary people have more of chance than they do in Washington DC. I can see such a movement catching fire throughout the country and resulting in a huge "throw ALL the bums out" movement. I can't think of any issue that is so potentially all-encompassing, and with such strategic value in actually returning some "power to the people."

3. Thinking big:

It's difficult to "think big" when the fascists are now bent upon destroying Social Security and Medicare. But we really need to think bigger than we have been. We need to think--as the Latin Americans have done--of turning things upside down. What would a real democracy look like and how to get there? The Latin Americans didn't accomplish their political revolutions overnight--nor can we. But it is important to formulate the goals--big, inspiring goals--and to persist in achieving them. They are not finished. No democracy's work ever is, really. And we are only beginning. Our first strategic goal may be transparent elections, and our second strategic goal may be clean elections (no corporate money) and our third may be curtailing or dismantling the corporate media monopolies, but what are our ultimate goals--for instance, merely to restore the democracy we once had in the 1930s to 1970s--a democracy with serious flaws--or to revolutionize the whole system--unto de-chartering and dismantling all big corporations and de-militarization (busting the war machine, down to true defensive posture)?

For now, this is just something to think about--thinking big. If we succeed at restoring PUBLIC vote counting, what do we ask of the candidates we might be able to elect? And if we succeed, ultimately, in electing, say, another FDR, what do we want him or her to do on our behalf? What is the best we can think of, on all issues--economic, political, government structure, equality, human and civil rights, taxation, etc.? What is our new charter? What is our new "social contract"? What--if we ever get there--would our new constitution look like?

----


*(The exception is Colombia, where an armed leftist resistance continues to this day--a civil war that has been going on for 70 years. Much to say about this situation and the U.S. funding of the Colombian military ($7 BILLION), about the corrupt, murderous, failed U.S. "war on drugs" and about Pentagon Big Dartboard plans in Latin America, which I will just sketch in here, as a rare example of continued brutal rightwing government in Latin America and the only example of continued armed resistance.

(Colombia was intended, by our war planners, as the stepping stool to Oil War IV--against Venezuela and Ecuador--and may still be, although I think Obama/Clinton/Panetta may have switched to economic rather than military objectives, due to the solidarity of the leftist governments in the region.

(The Colombian government was run as a criminal enterprise throughout the Bush Junta, with massive deaths of political leftists and civilians--a reign of terror probably mostly aimed at consolidation of the trillion dollar-plus cocaine trade into fewer hands and direction of this huge revenue stream to the Bush Cartel, U.S. banksters and others. War profiteering and oil wars may have been secondary objectives to the Bush Junta. (Granted, I'm just guessing on this--the cocaine trade is a hard thing to get real information on--but I think I'm guessing right).

(Colombia now has a CIA (Panetta) vetted president who has made dramatic moves toward peace with Venezuela and south-south trade but this is occurring in the context of a major coverup of the crimes of the Uribe/Bush juntas in Colombia, by the Obama administration. The Obama administration is also now pushing U.S. "free trade for the rich" in Colombia--a program that has utterly failed elsewhere in Latin America. The leftist guerillas in Colombia have committed violence but nothing even close to the violence of the Colombian military and its closely tied death squads. Amnesty International, for instance, attributes 92% of the murders of trade unionists in Colombia to the Colombian military itself (about half) and to its related rightwing paramilitary death squads (the other half).

(Colombia's "democracy," in summary, is a cruel farce. Fascist criminals governed it recently. A rich oligarchy governs it now. It has one of the worst rich/poor discrepancies in the region--while Venezuela, right next door, has THE best. (Venezuela is "THE most equal country in Latin America," according to a recent report by the UN Economic Commission on Latin America and the Caribbean.) This is one good measure of democracy--Colombia vs. Venezuela. Democracy benefits all. Oligarchy and fascism benefit only a few.

(Whatever you may think of armed resistance, you can understand why it has happened in Colombia, which has made NO effort to address vast poverty and inequality and where the efforts of the poor to organize in their own interest have been brutally thwarted. The rest of Latin America has rejected armed resistance, while yet, in some countries, electing former armed resistors as president of the country (Brazil, Uruguay, Venezuela, Nicaragua)--a remarkable development. The current president of Brazil, Dilma Rousseff, was imprisoned and tortured by the fascist dictatorship, for being a member of a guerrilla group. So Latin Americans don't necessarily consider armed resistance to be "terrorism." Otherwise, leaders like Rousseff would be permanently banned from office, and clearly they are not. They have been forgiven for, and are possibly even admired for, their courage in past times.

(The Colombian guerrillas seem a throwback to another era--but several of their efforts to disarm and broker a peace in the new democratic atmosphere of Latin America have been deliberately smashed--most recently by the Bush Junta in 2007-2008.

(The other least democratic country in Latin America is Honduras--where rightwing death squads are now operating, as they have been for a decade in Colombia--murdering trade unionists and others--purging leftists and decapitating grass roots organization. These U.S. supported fascist governments--Colombia and Honduras--are a stark contrast to the successful leftist democracy movement elsewhere in Latin America. The Honduran majority has remained entirely peaceful in the face of this brutality and a U.S.-contrived fraudulent election--and they have the political support of most Latin American governments in trying to turn their situation around peacefully. The U.S. has also directly interfered, using a fraudulent election, in Haiti. These Obama administration actions--covering up fascist crimes in Colombia, while intending U.S. corporations to profit from those crimes, and supporting fascists in Honduras and Haiti--are why I, and most of Latin America, have such a dim view of the Obama administration.)
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athenasatanjesus Donating Member (592 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #21
67. Great add on!
You nailed it,tho I still like the quote for it's humor,and it has some element of truth to it.
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janet118 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 07:20 AM
Response to Reply #21
81. Excellent analysis . . . I would add one thing
Americans, rich and poor, because of the myth of "independence," don't know how to share or form a genuine community. That attitude works out better if you're rich. The working class and poor all suffer on our own separate islands when we could pool our resources and live better lives.

I've seen South American and Asian immigrant communities do this. They buy businesses together, live together, work together, and raise their children together. American culture does not support the kind of trust and cooperation necessary for this kind of sharing. We all have to have our own stuff. Our cultural heroes are loners, not organizers. We all want to be stars, not supporting actors. This American myth is destructive. It makes the poor feel ashamed and the working class feel superior, dividing two groups that would both be better served if they joined forces to fight the corporate takeover of this country.

How do you change a mindset that is so ingrained in our culture? The only way to do it is to actually begin to form REAL, geographically based communities. I don't see it happening.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
24. Socialism didn't take root in the US because powerful interests fought it
It's not the fault of the peons
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socialist_n_TN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #24
33. Unusual, but I've got a slight disagreement with you.........
Or maybe it's more in the line of a question. When have powerful interests NOT fought socialism wherever it was tried? Did you mean that the PTB fought it MORE strongly here than it did in other places?
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #33
38. Oh absolutely
Capitalist interests ALWAYS fight labor interests

It was probably less of a 'fight' in the US actually - young country, unestablished guilds, trade unions, etc
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 04:15 AM
Response to Reply #33
76. The PTB fought for socialism in the USSR.
Just a shitty ass variant of it.
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LooseWilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 04:29 AM
Response to Reply #33
77. I think the ease of associating socialism with helping out "them" (people of color) was pivotal
here in the US... with all the immigrants coming to the country looking for work, by the time socialism started to get traction in the US there were plenty of "them"s to villify, and insist that the socialism was a move by "them" to take from "us" (not-brown folk who feel they've been "here longer" and so deserve privileges... etc.)... and so every base human urge toward racist xenophobia was played on by those with money to help villify the socialists who were struggling to fight the power of the wealthy... successfully it now seems.

Echoes of that same racism and xenophobia can still be heard in the calls of Obama-as-socialist... despite the fact that he's a demonstrated friend of Wall St. ... which only goes to show just how successful the powerful interests have been in tarring and feathering socialism.
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #24
87. +1000
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dana_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
25. ha! a great mind and quick wit
my favorite writer too.

"The American Dream" is such b.s. but people STILL fall for it. We can NOT all be wealthy, it will never be allowed.
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hifiguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
26. Ten tons o' truth in that one little statement.
Now more than ever.
:kick:
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
29. "Socialism never took root in America because"
some people vote for Scott Brown, Chris Christie and Scott Walker, and others think Ron Paul is cool.

Steinbeck's quote is true too.

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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Were there a lot of socialists running against Brown and Walker?
:shrug:
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Is it
your understanding that moving the country further to the right is headed in the direction of socialism?

I mean, Bernie Sanders is caucusing with Democrats.



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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. ?? So there weren't many socialists running for those seats? n/t
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. No
there weren't, but you knew that. Are you blaming socialists for not running?

Now, what does that have to do with the fact that socialism never took root in America because some people vote for Scott Brown, Chris Christie and Scott Walker, and others think Ron Paul is cool?

Do you believe it can?

Or are you saying that absent a socialist on the ticket, the above are viable choices?








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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Yes, I knew that. Wasn't sure if you did
It'd be interesting to know what percentage of eligible voters cast votes in those elections

As for socialism not taking root in the US, powerful capitalist class interests have fought it and continue to do so.

But you probably know that
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. Hmmmm?
"As for socialism not taking root in the US, powerful capitalist class interests have fought it and continue to do so."

Casting a vote for Brown, Christie or Walker and hyping Ron Paul is an individual choice.



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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #32
47. so those who voted for Scott Brown would have voted for a Socialist ?
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ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
35. Brilliant!
But of course nothing less is to be expected
from my favorite author of all time!
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
37. K&R n/t
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whatchamacallit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
40. Epic Nailage! K&R (nt)
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Brigid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
41. Too true.
But I wonder if that isn't starting to change.
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TNLib Donating Member (683 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
43. So true especially here in the south
nt
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #43
55. they're one lotto ticket or publisher's clearinghouse sweepstake from being real Republicans
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Ramulux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
44. Genius
I had never heard that quote but it is so on point its not funny.
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
45. K & R. It's All About The Horatio Alger Fantasy Drug with Dumberica:
Just as relevant now as when MM originally wrote it in 2003.

So, here's my question: after fleecing the American public and destroying the American dream for most working people, how is it that, instead of being drawn and quartered and hung at dawn at the city gates, the rich got a big wet kiss from Congress in the form of a record tax break, and no one says a word? How can that be?

I think it's because we're still addicted to the Horatio Alger fantasy drug. Despite all the damage and all the evidence to the contrary, the average American still wants to hang on to this belief that maybe, just maybe, he or she (mostly he) just might make it big after all.

So don't attack the rich man, because one day that rich man may be me!

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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
46. there are a lot of people who are struggling financially who say negative things about others
in similar or worse positions.

people who i think might be liberal suddenly saying some shitty things about homeless people. they talk about how they are having problems with money but when talking about others they start saying horrible things.

yeah, you don't have a fucking job because of some homeless person ?
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
49. Wait, so America is like a ponzi scheme mentality?
It sure feels that way. Wasn't being a millionaire promised in the Bill O Rights? I'd swear it's in there somewhere.
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
50. Exactly on point! nt
:thumbsup:
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
51. An a propos quote by Vonnegut on how being poor is an stigma in the US:
"America is the wealthiest nation on Earth, but its people are mainly poor, and poor Americans are urged to hate themselves. To quote the American humorist Kin Hubbard, ‘It ain’t no disgrace to be poor, but it might as well be.’ It is in fact a crime for an American to be poor, even though America is a nation of poor. Every other nation has folk traditions of men who were poor but extremely wise and virtuous, and therefore more estimable than anyone with power and gold. No such tales are told by the American poor. They mock themselves and glorify their betters. The meanest eating or drinking establishment, owned by a man who is himself poor, is very likely to have a sign on its wall asking this cruel question: ‘if you’re so smart, why ain’t you rich?’ There will also be an American flag no larger than a child’s hand – glued to a lollipop stick and flying from the cash register…

Americans, like human beings everywhere, believe many things that are obviously untrue. Their most destructive untruth is that it is very easy for any American to make money. They will not acknowledge how in fact hard money is to come by, and, therefore, those who have no money blame and blame and blame themselves. This inward blame has been a treasure for the rich and powerful, who have had to do less for their poor, publicly and privately, than any other ruling class since, say Napoleonic times. Many novelties have come from America. The most startling of these, a thing without precedent, is a mass of undignified poor. They do not love one another because they do not love themselves."
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Kat45 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #51
64. Never thought about it that way, but it's true; I've even been blaming myself for being poor..
I've been doing that myself. I was always the smart kid, had a good education at a somewhat elite university, got a master's degree--and I haven't had a steady job for 2 1/2 years. I look at folks I went to school with who are doing quite well for themselves (some of whom are engineers or MBAs), and I start blaming myself for not having been really ambitious and doggedly pursuing a great career when I was younger. I start to feel like a total loser, a failure in life, because I have no income. (ThoughI don't believe that everybody is highly ambitious, yet most people used to still get good jobs, even have pretty good careers. In today's world, that's not the case.)
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 05:22 AM
Response to Reply #51
79. Great quote!!
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Curmudgeoness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
54. The land where everyone can be rich, if they only work hard enough.
Yeah, right. And the streets are paved with gold.

Great quote. :thumbsup:
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
57. I used to live my life like I was gonna win the lottery one day. Now I have credit cards instead.
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
60. Nail on the head, Mr. Steinbeck. n/t
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mckara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
61. Remember Frederick Jackson Turner, the Historian?
In his essay, Contributions of the West to American Democracy, Atlantic Monthly, January 1903, Turner discusses the rise of Social Welfare as defined in the Frontier of the American West. It rose as an expression of American Democracy. Socialism in America has Western roots!
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
62. Yes -- Michael Moore talks about that -- the Horatio Alger Millionaire American -- ?
Edited on Mon May-16-11 08:48 PM by defendandprotect
Do I have that name right -- I have the book, but couldn't find it -- !!

But remember that our schools also pushed capitalism as being synonymous

with democracy!! Yikes!

In fact, it's the very opposite of democracy!

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DRex Donating Member (531 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
69. K&R Read "In Dubious Battle" as a teen...
I think that has a lot to do with my sympathies now. What a book.

I made a pilgrimage to Salinas and Monterey a couple of years ago too. It was amazing to be in Steinbeck's valleys and seafronts. They felt so much like I imagined them. A true American master.
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Lucky Luciano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
70. Hah!! nt
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-11 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
72. That is SO true of a couple of poor hardcore conservatives I know.
That's the most deliciously succinct way of putting it that I've seen yet.

PB
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 05:20 AM
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78. K&R
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 08:00 AM
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83. Must be dat old devil Denial....nt
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quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 10:10 AM
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88. This is part of why I have some hope for the future
And why I think the R's are moving so hard and fast right now to cement their agenda.

the under 30's are not, in my experience, as prone to this thinking. They saw the 80s and the results in the '00's They see their parents losing everything by playing that game.

And if the R's kept waiting until they become a significant voting force, as the boomers and elders start to drop in numbers, and minorities who have never had the luxury of looking at the world this way increase in numbers, The republican vote numbers were going to shrink to the proportions of the Ron Paul vote numbers. So they are moving right now to consolidate power, hoping to hold onto it during the coming firestorm.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 10:58 AM
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89. K&R Sad but true.
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shimmergal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-17-11 11:00 AM
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90. Time to explode some myths...
I think Peace Patriot's post is brilliant.

But don't put people down for playing the lottery. Even though the chances of winning big may be infintesimal, for most people it's still their best chance at ever getting rich. What's wrong with spending a couple of dollars on it every week rather than on another hamburger or 1/2 pack of cigarettes? And there _are_ smaller prizes. A sister-in-law won $20,000 with a scratch-off ticket in California. ('?Course they're the couple in the family who need it least. I don't know how much money she had to put in before she won.)

Re: "middle class" vs. "working class". A false dichotomy. People in middle-class professions work too. At least most of them do. We should start referring to both as REAL PEOPLE. As opposed to "corporate people," or what other slightly insulting name you care to give the rich and rapacious.
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