U.S. College Education Isn’t Worth Price: Report

[marmar]

(Bloomberg) Higher education fails to provide students “good value” for the money they and their families spend, more than half of U.S. adults said in a survey.

The debate over higher education’s value “has been triggered not just by rising costs but also by hard economic times,” according to a report released yesterday by the Washington-based Pew Research Center. The organization, an independent research group funded by Philadelphia-based Pew Charitable Trusts, surveyed 2,142 adults, aged 18 and older, from March 15 through March 29.

The survey follows a call by President Barack Obama for the U.S. to achieve the highest college graduation rate in the world by 2020. The U.S. now ranks 12th among 36 developed nations, according to a report last year by the College Board.

In the poll, 75 percent of U.S. adults said college was unaffordable for most Americans, and almost half said that student loans had made it harder to pay other bills. .............(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-16/u-s-college-education-isn-t-worth-price-pew-report-says.html

[no_hypocrisy]

1. Yes and no.

You need the degree on your resume to find a decent job theoretically. I know, I know. I'm "between jobs" myself and with degrees. But my point is that if you have only a high school diploma or GED and you're competing with a college graduate with a C-minus average, you still lose.

[janet118]

6. As my mother used to say . . .

"It's not what you know, it's who you know."

Sad, but I believe she was right.

I know some without a college degree who have high paying jobs because of connections and some with multiple degrees who are unemployed because they don't have any. Go figure. That said, a college degree is a must for those without a friend/relative on the inside.

It is a shame that many kids in this country are graduating with the equivalent of a home mortgage on their backs. It creates wage slaves and cannot even be relieved through bankruptcy.

[happyslug]

24. The Labor Dep. agrees with your Mother, 92% of all jobs are found through Friends and Relatives

The Department of Labor (DOL) find was 92% of all Jobs are found through Friends and Relatives.

Now, This Department of Labor (DOL) only points out 90% plus of employers And employees use "informal contacts" (The DOL's term for "Friends and Relatives"):
http://research.upjohn.org/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1169&context=up_bookchapters&sei-redir=1#search=%22Department+of+Labor+Jobs+%22Friends+and+Relatives%22%22

It is interesting that when it comes to Collage students or people with education or training the local unemployment office handles only about 2.7%, private firms handle 6.7%, but most jobs are by "Direct Contract" which can includes Friends and Relatives and that exceeds 90%.


While studies have found this is NOT true in Jobs requiring "High Productivity" or a lot of "Training", those same studies indicate most employers hire employees by "Direct Contract" i.e. application to the firm which by definition can include references from Friends and Relatives.

In the following Studies the term "Friends and Relatives" and "Informal Contacts" were only used if that was how the employer said he hired the employee. i.e. if the hiring was by "Direct Contact", then that job was NOT hired via "Friends and Relatives" or other "Informal Contact" even if a Friend or Relative told the person to make the direct contract.

These are also European cites, Europe does more training then do American Firm, and tend to hire by "Direct Contact" even if who makes the application is told to make the "Direct Contact" by friends or relatives:

http://cep.lse.ac.uk/pubs/download/dp0623.pdf

http://digitalcommons.ilr.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1362&context=ilrreview&sei-redir=1#search=%22Department+of+Labor+Jobs+%22Friends+and+Relatives%22%22

[FreeJoe]

25. In my experience

It is much safer to higher applicants that are recommended by existing employees and to take job offers that come from places where you know people on the inside. I live and work in a fire-at-will state and it is still difficult to fire an employee for poor performance and any large company I've been at. I assume that I'll be keeping anyone I hire for a long time, so I do as much as possible to reduce risk in hiring.

That attitude is common amongst virtually every manager I know. That is why I strongly recommend working as an intern during your summers in college so that you can build those working world contacts and can demonstrate your value to an organization.

[LiberalAndProud]

30. And the college grad has to work for the next 25 years (or more) to pay off the accumulated debt.

I'm not a fan of higher education these days. Too many college graduates are getting the same wages as burger and fries barkers. If it all pays the same, there is no upside for accumulating massive debt.

[Skidmore]

2. It is only worth it if there are jobs for which to compete, and which

compensate people adequately to cover living expenses and the cost of the education. Education is rapidly becoming a luxury.

[WinkyDink]

3. "Good value"? Well, if Americans want JUST a Vo-Tech school, maybe not.

[spooky3]

9. Actually, controlled studies of earnings (vs. asking a survey question)

show degreed people earn far more than do people with only a HS diploma, particularly for men, and that their unemployment rates are lower.

So even if they wanted JUST a vo-tech school, hard data show that it is well worth the investment of time and money.

But I agree with you that there are many more reasons to go to school than just to get job training.

[canoeist52]

4. Yeah? Where was Bloomberg on this five years ago??

Closing the barn door after the money has escaped.

[earthside]

5. Increasingly true.

I have a son at university ... the costs are becoming enormous and may soon be prohibitive.

I am coming to believe that there is something seriously wrong with our higher education system in this country.
There are clearly too many young folks going to college who have no real interest in 'higher' learning ... they are there simply to (hopefully) get a degree because you have to have one to get a job -- a job, by the way, that a decade ago did not require a B.A.

The colleges know this and I think the class work and expectations have been 'dumbed down' to fit this circumstances.

But then there is the money issue -- frankly, I think campuses and facilities have become too fancy, too numerous; there are too many administrators. There are too many 'universities' when community or state colleges would do; there is way too much college sports.

Bottom line is that we actually do need more trades and crafts training for young people and less emphasis on college -- but that flies in the face of the Bush/Spellings/Obama/Duncan education scheme to load massive new debt on the next generation of Americans.

So, the poll shows that the American people know what is going on and don't like it -- but nothing will change because higher education has become as dominated by the mega-transnational corporations as has so much of the rest of our economy and culture.

[exboyfil]

7. It gets even better

Those degrees that offer good compensation after college and have some demand cost more in our state schools. Engineering, Nursing, and Business all cost more than the Liberal Arts majors. The reason given is that these majors cost more. I can't believe an engineer costs more to educate than a Physics major for example. If a English Literature major is educated properly they should cost more than an engineer (you can have higher teacher to student ratios for engineers than majors like English). An undergraduate can grade a math, science, or engineering test in general (I did it when I was in school). I don't think the same can be said for an undergraduate English major for essays. Also you can grade engineering tests much more quickly than essays.

Granted engineering professors are paid more, but they also bring in lots of outside dollars. The same cannot be said for an English professor.

Finally, while I could not make the same argument for business majors, engineering and nursing are both very high need fields. Engineering to support the future of our society, and nurses to address demographics. It seems wrong to charge them more for their education.

[Celebration]

8. I am starting to believe

That college loans are a scam, and support bloated college budgets, large tuition raises, etc.

Colleges would never be able to charge the tuitions that they charge but for subsidized college loans. Theoretically it is a good idea to promote college education, but in practice it has produced more college graduates than are needed in the workforce, lower salaries for them, a staggering amount of debt for graduates, and bloated higher education budgets.

[FreeJoe]

26. I totally agree

I was a big advocate for increasing financial aid for students. It didn't work the way that I had hoped. College costs seem to just climb with increases in aid. I'd like to see some regs that encourage colleges to cut their costs rather than increase money available to students to pay.

[90-percent]

10. Oh Oh Oh

I got the perfect name for this

The College Tuition Industrial Complex!

I would contend that part of the reason we are in such a mess these days is that modern education is oriented around GETTING A GOOD JOB instead of being taught how to think and reason. We are churning out worker bees that are retarded in many areas of life beyond their core discipline. And these emotional illiterates are in there running the show now.

I'm getting a much better idea about why humanities are so important.

-90% Jimmy

[FLPanhandle]

28. So, if you are not a humanities major you don't know how to think and are "emotionally illiterate"?

I've read some B.S. here, but this is in the top five.

[90-percent]

29. Your conclusion of my post

Your conclusion is mutually exclusive to the point I was trying to make.

My point is that college should not be a vocational school only. You should also take stuff that helps you learn to think and reason and use logic. Part of that could be humanities classes.

-90% Jimmy

[Brickbat]

11. I think it's important to go to college, but I do think that many people who go to college

shouldn't be there, and I also think that the costs are getting fucking out of control. It's the next bubble, IMO. There was no reason for a year at my college to cost $13K when I was there 20 years ago, or for it to be $45K a year now. That's outrageous.

[seabeyond]

13. let that bubble burst NOW. i have a kid going in two years. i do not get or know how so many

parents are sending kids to college.

my kids grades are good enough and hubby's family snobby enough to talk ivy league schools. i have been calling bullshit for about 5 yrs now telling son he can go to a in state college and get an athletic scholarship

[Brickbat]

16. I find myself encouraging my kids to take a year off before going to college, to strongly consider

getting into the trades, and to understand that college is not a ticket to a better life. It blows me away. The idea of paying for college makes me sick, frankly.

[seabeyond]

17. idea of paying for college makes me sick, frankly.

i am there with you. if there were trade jobs, or something my boys are really interested and skilled at that was trade, i would suggest it.

my oldest though appears to be slotted for a more educated environment. my younger i can see in computer industry or possibly something more tech that could be trade. i am certainly open to it.

i am concerned though, telling boys they have to look at degrees that are going to provide a good income and be available when they get out

[laureloak]

19. If you get into an Ivy you don't have to worry about being able

to afford it as they all meet 100% of every student's need.

[seabeyond]

22. hm. lol. do tell. nt

[Arugula Latte]

18. When I was at the Univ. of California in the mid-80s, tuition was dirt cheap.

I'm amazed at how even public schools are prohibitively expensive for the middle and even upper middle classes now.

[mike_c]

12. well, it certainly transformed my life for the better....

Your mileage may differ, but I went from boring, unskilled blue collar work to interesting and challenging biological research and teaching. If I had it to do over, the only thing I'd change is going to college sooner than I did.

[Dreamer Tatum]

14. Then reduce the idiotic demand for it

As someone who taught college courses for years at a major research institution, I am convinced that at least a quarter of the students don't belong there.

As someone in the business world for 20 years now, I am equally convinced that MANY jobs do not require a college degree at all.

Remove the job market requirement, remove the stigma for not having a degree, take marginal students out of the university, and boom...the prices will fall.

Oh, and charge foreign students 2x out-of-state tuition.

[Brickbat]

20. Totally agree. The problem is, many of those jobs that didn't used to require a degree are gone.

I do think it's important to have a stock of jobs that pay a living wage that people don't need a college degree to perform. So many of those manufacturing, transportation and other trade jobs are gone. We either have to get them back or organize and raise the standards for the service jobs that remain.

[jtown1123]

15. This isn't anything new but K&R for visibility

[melm00se]

21. Congressional testimony hits

this right on the head:

http://www.mikeroweworks.com/2011/05/mike-rowes-oral-testimony-to-the-senate-commerce-committee/

[lovuian]

23. Salaries will have to be raised or watch Brain Drain

on a massive scale

the College graduates will flee to Canada who requires a college degree to enter

as well as europe


When one looks at how inflation has taken down the dollar

one is paying in cheap dollars for ones education

which no one can take from you

[FreeJoe]

27. One reason so many jobs require a degree...

A degree shows that a student was able to handle what amounts to an expensive four year project that required considerable short term sacrifice for a risky long term gain. Presumably, someone able to pull that off is more likely to perform well than someone that couldn't. In other words, it's not just what they learned in college that makes a degree valuable but what they were able to demonstrate in achieving it.

With that said, I've hired several degree-less people in my time. The thing that they all had in common was 10+ years of work experience in fields normally requiring a degree. Someone else was willing to take the risk on them.