If you were a citizen of Pakistan...?

[kentuck]

Would you be angry at Barack Obama for coming into your country on the sly and killing Osama Bin Laden?

Or would you be angry at the Pakistani government for letting another country come into your country with a military unit and take out Bin Laden?

Or would it depend on what you thought about Bin Laden? If you admired him, you might be more angry at the Pakistani government than Barack Obama and the US?

Don't you imagine the Pakistani people are very angry right now?

[whoneedstickets]

1. It would depend on what my Imam told me to think..

sadly.

[Turbineguy]

2. I'd be thinkin'

More talibanista's ought to be dead and stinkin'

[Tx4obama]

3. I would be more upset at the idiotic suicide bombers that just killed 80 folks.

Pakistan suicide bombs kill 80 to avenge bin Laden
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4850282

Btw, the USA had permission to go into Pakistan to get Bin Laden.
Bush and the last Pakistani president made a deal that would allow USA to cross the border into Pakistan.

[kentuck]

6. Do you have a link to that agreement?

What legitimacy does the "last president" have??

[Ian David]

9. Osama bin Laden mission agreed in secret 10 years ago by US and Pakistan

Osama bin Laden mission agreed in secret 10 years ago by US and Pakistan
US forces were given permission to conduct unilateral raid inside Pakistan if they knew where Bin Laden was hiding, officials say
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/09/osama-bin-laden-us-pakistan-deal

[kentuck]

15. That is very interesting...

if true? I haven't heard our government mention that?

[Tx4obama]

12. When agreements are made by leaders of countries they're still in force when new leaders take office

n/t

[Codeine]

19. Agreements don't dissolve with the arrival of a new President.

We didn't need to rewrite all of our existing laws and treaties with the arrival of the Obama administration.

[closeupready]

4. Your constant negativity about Pakistanis is tiresome.

Unrecced.

[kentuck]

5. Sorry.

I bet you would unrec Obama if you were a citizen of Pakistan?

[closeupready]

33. To actually address this point: the Pakistanis I know personally are saddened by

how the country has descended into civil war and Islamic fundamentalism. They are saddened by the way in which their country is perceived in the media. And these are Western-oriented, educated people I mean. Many of whom are American, too.

I've never been to Pakistan, but apparently, even in old, cultured cities like Lahore, things have changed dramatically for the worse over the last 30 years.

Nonetheless, given that there are still survivors from the Partition bloodshed, and that many Pakistanis come from families who lost members during that episode, I don't think a single one of them would ever accept anything less than a sovereign Pakistan. They love their country and are proud of their culture, just as we all love our respective countries and are proud of our own cultures. :)

[Enrique]

7. I saw it as sympathetic

or maybe empathetic is a better word.

Talking about Pakistanis as if they were people like us (which they are), with opinions and thoughts that we might be able to relate to. Instead of a mass of ignorant "others" who we can't possibly understand.

[closeupready]

28. I may have been mistaken, so I apologize if so Kentuck, but I sometimes feel like these threads

(not particularly his but all of them) are started as a thinly veiled opportunity to bash Pakistani citizens and those of South Asian ethnicity.

You know, it might surprise people here to learn that some of us count amongst our families and friends Pakistanis and other unpopular racial groups. Just a nota bene.

[kentuck]

29. No problem.

I was attempting to put myself in their shoes. We have to be empathetic to how others might be feeling. I think the Pakistanis may have a lot of mixed feelings at this time, including anger.

[closeupready]

30. Very, very true.

Goes to show you (me!) not to jump all over people in 'hypersensitivity'. ;) :hi:

[EFerrari]

8. If I were a Pakistani citizen, I'd aleady be pissed at America

for killing innocent people with drones. Bin Laden's killing would just fold into that.

[kentuck]

10. That makes sense.

I think it is helpful to think of this in a human sense.

[EFerrari]

16. And, I'd be pissed at my government for their impotence.

I think this one has to be an "and".

[kentuck]

17. Yep.

Agree.

Which means we are probably going to see turmoil in Pakistan for a while? Maybe a change in government?

[EFerrari]

25. It's hard to say. If the outside threat seems big enough

the people might just wind up supporting the government in self defense. Apparently, the one general who was in charge of intel offered his resignation and it was refused.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

32. My Pakistani PA agrees with you.

She and her family underwent bombings during the Pakistan/India war and has no fond memories of war.

[RZM]

11. I think many Pakistanis don't buy into any 'official' narratives on terrorism

And are prone to believe various conspiracy theories. Though even if you believe that kind of stuff, you're certainly capable of being angry about Pakistan's sovereignty being violated. I would imagine that is the most common response of those you listed.

I'm sure there are Pakistanis who don't appreciate the US action, but also reserve some blame for the Pakistani government for giving the US an excuse to enter the country without permission.

[CJvR]

13. Not...

...half as annoyed over the fact that it was ever needed.

[DainBramaged]

14. I can't imagine that...

[Wait Wut]

18. I would be furious...

...that my government hid that asshole and endangered me, my family and neighbors. I'd be praying like hell that they made nice with the US so we can continue to receive aid and not start a war.

I would not blame Pres. Obama for coming into my country "on the sly" and would be more concerned with how many more murderers my government was hiding in my neighborhood.

If I admired bin Laden I would have sympathy for the Pakistani government for getting caught with their pants down and offer them my "brilliance" at building roadside bombs to protect them from the evil SEALs. I would then try to buy a one-way ticket to NY and not bring a change of clothes. Then, I'd kill myself along with as many "infidels" as possible, including small children.

Your last question is your attempt at assumption. I would imagine some are, some aren't, some don't care, some care, some are happy, some are thrilled, some are frightened...I wouldn't assume all are any one emotion. That would be like assuming all DUers agree with you.

[kentuck]

20. A rational post.

:-)

[Wait Wut]

38. Thank you.

;-)

[EFerrari]

27. So, in your opinion, the citizens of Pakistan are terrorists?

That's a pretty interesting projection considering they have been victims of our indiscriminate bombing for years now.

[Wait Wut]

37. What???

How did you come to that conclusion?

On edit: Nope. Nothing in my comment suggests I think all Pakistanis are terrorists. Hang on...nope. Read it again. Nothing there. Wait, let's give it one more glance over...um...nope. Nada. Zilch.

Maybe you posted this in the wrong spot? (That's me giving you an easy out. Take it.)

;-)

[malaise]

21. They've been angry for decades

The Pakistani government and army have been controlled by the CIA for ages.

[elleng]

Pakistanis at large don't know what's going on.

Their govt not very 'out there,' and neither is media.

Good friend of mine, Pakistani/U.S. citizen, spoke with his brother recently, about this. (working class, fyi.)

[ljm2002]

22. I would be mad at several entities...

...at the USA for their drone attacks; at the Pakistan government for allowing them; at the USA for sending SEALS into my country to kill bin Laden; at the Pakistan government for harboring bin Laden; at the Taliban for their terror attack that killed 80+ people and for their all around nastiness.

Seems to me there are plenty of reasons for citizens of Pakistan to be pissed these days.

[kentuck]

24. You make some good points.

Walk a mile in their shoes.

[EFerrari]

26. No kidding.

And the people of Pakistan are not slouches. They've ousted something like 5 military dictators, and when you think about it, that's pretty amazing. We couldn't even impeach one Bush.

[sabrina 1]

23. As a citizen of any country where foreign troops invade

I would be angry at both my government, IF they had agreed to the invasion, absolutely and would be working to replace that government. I would be angry too at the invaders, but far more so at my own government, unless it was done without their knowledge.

I am sure that many people in Pakistan are angry.

There seems to be a perception in the West that the Pakistani people are all ignorant, fundies so they will react to whatever their religious leaders tell them to react to. The ignorance of other nations, and the underlying racism in this country especially, is stunning. I have to say until the GWOT was unveiled and all that pent up prejudice and hatred was given permission to come out in the open, I admit to not realizing how pervasive it was.

Pakistan has a large proportion of its population of people who are smart, informed and in many case far more rational than some of our own citizens. But how would the average American know that? Our media is so closed and most Americans don't travel, so, it's easy to paint other nations as 'lesser' and irrational.

[closeupready]

31. "underlying racism in this country .. is stunning". Completely agree.

It just took this particular issue for it to come around again. The legacy of institutionalized slavery, partly, IMHO.

[EFerrari]

34. It's got to be more than even that.

1 of 2 African slaves that came to this continent came through the port at Veracruz at one point. And yet unlike here in the US, most of their DNA went into the larger pool in Mexico and the signature Mariachi song is a love lyric to a black woman.

There were many more prohibitions against integration of all kinds here.

[themadstork]

35. I would feel hemmed in by one group of non-state terrorists and another larger

group of state-sanctioned terrorists.

[TimLighter]

36. Instead of speculating, follow Sohaib Athar's twitter account from

Abbottabad and read some of his blog. Check out some of the other people who converse with him. Many of the people are actually human and it's an eye opener.



https://twitter.com/#!/ReallyVirtual

http://www.reallyvirtual.com/

[sabrina 1]

39. Thank you, I hope more people read about the real people of

Pakistan, not the ones from Central Casting we get to see here.

Interesting blog. Bookmarked and I will follow him on twitter also.

[JCMach1]

40. My Pakistani friends were neither shocked, or surprised

they already know how corrupt their government is...