Convince me I'm wrong that the death penalty is ridiculous.

[Mike 03]

Speaking as someone who lost a friend who was raped and murdered two decades ago, and who used to be for the death penalty, isn't this getting a bit ridiculous?

There are serial killers on Death Row in California who have been there for almost forty years. There are cases I followed were I practically drooled for these killers to be put to death, but they are playing poker on death row, filing appeals because their cookies are wet. And part of me forgives, and part of me pretends I can forget, but I can't.

I mean, it is over. We need to drop this, for our own sanity. Human beings do horrible things, and we don't make it better by horrifying things back to them.

The anger destroys the goodness in us. We need to keep it for better deeds. If that makes sense.

What is the honest argument for the Death Penalty?

[TygrBright]

1. You're wrong. It's tragic AND ridiculous. (yer welcome!) n/t

[snot]

7. AND it's also horribly wasteful, in multiple ways.

[Deep13]

2. I'm not convinced prison isn't ridiculous in most cases.

Violence begets violence, someone said, and I'm beginning to think it is true. Violence and callousness.

One of the things that makes the DP kind of ridiculous is that, frankly, it's not much of a punishment. Aren't we all condemned to death anyway? The only question is when.

[patrice]

5. It used to be for "correction" (to whatever extent possible) NOT punishment.

[Electric Monk]

3. Killing people teaches them that it's wrong to kill people.

:eyes:

[blueamy66]

31. No, the death penalty is there to "tell" those that

CHOOSE to commit murder...take another human being's life....that if they do CHOOSE to do this...they stand a chance of losing their life as well.

[patrice]

4. Nope . . .

Keep them in prison forever, working in some manner that benefits victims.

[former9thward]

6. The honest argument is punishment.

We killed Osama to punish him for 9/11. Society determines that some killers should lose their lives as punishment. The only problem with the DP is that it is not used. As you said in your OP people are on death row for 40 years and playing poker.

[coalition_unwilling]

11. Heck, I advocate we start executing those accused of capital

crimes without even bothering with such niceties as trials, rules of evidence, rights to counsel and so on.

The mere assertion of the executive that so and so is an 'evil doer' or a 'terrorist' should suffice.

Due Process is so 20th Century. Bring back the Star Chamber.

:sarcasm: in case it's needed.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

13. Putting someone in jail is punishment, too.

Putting someone in jail for the rest of his life if what he was convicted of was extremely egregious is punishment.

Just because we don't prematurely end someone's life doesn't mean we don't punish them.

[former9thward]

14. Yes putting someone in jail is punishment.

That is why we don't give all killers the death penalty. But some deserve the ultimate punishment because of their crimes.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

20. What about all those places that live very well with not having the DP?

Are they making baby Jesus cry or something, like the ones that have gay marriage and/or legalized marijuana?

[former9thward]

23. What about them?

I didn't say that without the DP civilization would be destroyed. I said it is suitable punishment for some killers who have committed vicious crimes.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

25. Well, hey, murder is murder.

Under the "eye for eye" notion, he who takes a life shall sacrafice his own. And that is indeed a maxim of punishment.

So why don't we execute all convicted murderers? Or are some victims' lives more valuable than others?

[former9thward]

26. No all murders are not equal.

Our justice system has never been based on an "eye for an eye". You will have to find another country if that is what you propose. Some murders are so vicious that the murderer has forfeited his right to live. Adults are fully capable of making those judgments.

[blueamy66]

33. There are laws which address this.

nt

[jberryhill]

18. But we don't even know if it is "punishing"

Death may be followed by neverending bliss or simply a cessation of existence. Neither of those is more "punishment" than the daily grind of being alive.

[former9thward]

27. We can't "know" anything for certain if you follow that logic.

However the DP is our best guess at what punishment would be. Most people do not have your "daily grind of being alive" attitude. Sounds like you are looking forward to dying.

[jberryhill]

30. The point is... Duh...

We can tell if a living person is suffering from punishment with considerably more certainty than the dead.

[blueamy66]

34. interesting point

this will make me think :-)

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

19. Punishment, if it's not a mechanism to bring other things...

...like deterrance and/or rehabilitation and/or increasing public security... is pointless.

It can never be an end it itself. To think is is, in my opinion, is warped.

And no, you didn't kill Osama to punish him for 9/11. You killed him for the first and third reasons stated above.

[former9thward]

36. If Osama was killed for deterrence or security we wasted our time.

Because we will get neither. I think both Obama and a majority of the American people wanted Osama killed for his role in 9/11.

[blueamy66]

32. My thought as well.

nt

[eallen]

8. As now applied? Here's a game theoretic argument for the death penalty...

Without the death penalty, there are situations where criminals have incentive to kill. Consider a gangster facing trial and almost certain conviction for murder. Why not kill the witness? Or a gang that has kidnapped someone for ransom. Why not get rid of the victim? After all, there's not much difference between one life sentence and two. The death penalty could act as an important differentiator if it were reserved only for a few situations where the common understanding was its use to provide "one thing worse," in those cases where otherwise the law creates an incentive to murder:

• killing a kidnap victim
• killing for the purpose of concealing evidence
• murder committed by someone who has more than 20 years yet to serve on a prison sentence

But that's a theoretical death penalty. No state I know has ever used it that way. And once you start applying it more broadly, it can't serve that purpose. Just as there's no difference between one life sentence and two, there's also no difference between one death penalty and two.

:hippie:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

37. Sometimes the opposite happens.

Dude shot a cop dead doing a bank robbery, he (correctly) thinks he's certain to get the needle. Why surrender peacefully instead of shooting every cop that attempts to get him? After all, there's not much difference between one death sentence and six.

[Lance_Boyle]

9. Nope. It's the one thing conservatives OUGHT TO agree with us about.

After all, the power to kill its citizens is the ULTIMATE power "big government" ought not to have.

[blueamy66]

10. The honest argument?

The defendants get one appeal. When that is lost...they get executed.

End of story.

[TheKentuckian]

28. You know a lot of people have had convictions overturned all the way up to the last appeal?

Why the desire to kill the innocent?

[blueamy66]

35. I have no desire to kill the innocent.

Maybe I should re-think my statement.

How about....any murderer that confesses?

I don't know...I just know that I still am in favor of the death penalty.

[csziggy]

12. Full agreement here - and I used to be for the death penalty also

But with it taking decades to actually apply the death penalty, the difficulty in making absolutely sure that the correct person is being put to death, the expense in pushing it through the courts, the death penalty is too expensive, too likely to result in wrongful death, and too ineffective as a deterrent to be worth it.

There ARE a very few individuals who should never again see freedom but they can be locked up with no chance of parole. Our system of locking up so many of our citizens is not working. We have the largest prison population per capita of any system in the world and we still have a violent society.

On top of all of that, we spend far too much of our resources locking up people for relatively minor offenses.

[demosincebirth]

15. ridiculous and death penalty should never be used in the same sentence.

[TreasonousBastard]

16. Not me. There are too many arguments against capital punishment...

and many organizations, like Journey of Hope and Murder Victims Families for Reconciliation, are doing a lot better at bringing "closure" to the survivors of horrible crimes than the executioner can.

Texas, Virginia, and a few other states are willing to cut a deal with the shooter while executing someone who wasn't even there under some version of the "Law of Parties." Meanwhile, the Green River Killer just gets life. This makes no sense at all.

You might be interested in the strange and generally distasteful tale of Rainey Bethea-- his was the last public execution in the nation, and the revolting festivities led to a call for the abolition of the death penalty:

http://www.geocities.com/lastpublichang/

[JonLP24]

22. I know the Green River Killer case very well

When it came to the vast majority of victims the police had no hard evidence. They had hard evidence on only 4 IIRC. They struck a deal where he would avoid the DP if he admitted to killing the rest of his victims and show them where he hid bodies the police haven't recovered.

So in this case, it shows you can avoid the DP if you have multiple victims the police haven't found.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

17. No. It's as ridiculous as cancer.

Harmful, evil, wrong, misguided, reactionary, vindictive, bloodthirsty, uncivilized, are adjectives that apply.

Ridiculous does not.

Convinced?

[JonLP24]

21. Why does this guy oppose the DP?

Sorry can't convince you it isn't ridiculous. I can't ignore the many things wrong with it, especially the disparities in how it is applied.

[Odin2005]

24. I support the DP only for those who commit war crimes, genocide, and mass murder.

Otherwise, life in prison with no parole.

[Zax2me]

29. Replace it with hard labor for life

12 hour work days. No TV.
But then people start whining calling that cruel and unusual punishment.
So we can't do THAT.
Although I'm anti-death penalty I don't think a comfort tv/Internet/gym jail for life is the answer.