So Tweety lets two 9/11 mothers fight on camera???

[cliffordu]

One Muslim and the other, I dunno -

Disgusting.

[Connie_Corleone]

1. To be fair, I don't think he was planning on that happening.

[hlthe2b]

5. No... I don't think so either. Hoagland was determine to go off on her

anti-Muslim rant. I am so damned appalled.

[Fuzz]

13. Yeah, again with the 'deafening silence' from muslims about terror.

I mean shit lady, open your ears. It's just that they REFUSE to hear the islamic community in America say they oppose terrorism.

[CTyankee]

11. Tweety's staff should have done their homework better...

all 9/11 victims'parents or spouses feel the exact same on this issue. There should have been more staff research done to make sure this kind of thing doesn't happen.

I'm not against the two women having they say. It was just not an appropriate venue at that precise moment...

[hlthe2b]

2. Alice Hoagland spewing her Muslim hate with a Muslim mother of 911

Uggh.... I can tell you who earned my respect and renewed sympathy and it surely wasn't the one promoting Rep King's Muslim witch hunt, right in front of a still grieving Muslim mother, whose son was likewise a victim of 911.

Despicable woman (Alice Hoagland).

[Ian David]

3. Jerry! Jerry! I mean... Tweety! Tweety! n/t

[Nye Bevan]

4. Physically fighting? Or arguing? (nt)

[CherokeeDem]

6. Arguing...

but I certainly had the urge to send a left hook in that Muslim hating bitch's face.

Disgusting...

[la la]

7. sorry to say, but

alice hoagland is the epitome of trash.....

[CTyankee]

9. You can chalk a lot of her rage up to grief. Losing a family member to such violence

can do that. I'm not defending her point of view, because I don't believe it, but I understand it. Such rage never really goes away when you lose a family member to violence. You don't get "closure." It is never really "Okay" after that...

[hlthe2b]

14. I've not experienced many that lose their compassion for others

in very similar situations, however. The only thing separating her from that other women--her tragedy from that of that other mother, is the fact the "other" was Muslim. That is what, to me, makes Hoagland so hard to defend.

[CTyankee]

26. Yes, she seemed to be believing the idea that the Muslim community had NOT tried to

check anti-American propaganda, which I don't think is the case. She is a classic case of someone who has not heard of, or has shut herself off of, other venues of information on this question. I felt she was also a person having limited information, perhaps as a safety valve for herself, from other people's views.

[hlthe2b]

28. I can understand needing someone to blame... very natural reaction

But, I find it sad after all these years, that she is, as you say, so "shut off" from developing a fuller understanding of the issue, particularly knowing that Muslims were killed on that fateful day as well.

[CTyankee]

29. It is sad that she feels this way, but experiencing the violent end to a loved one's life

is often not ennobling. We are not alluva sudden granted sainthood because our family member was suddenly, shockingly, killed. We are angry, vengeful, or just looking for the answers. I am weary of this, as a family member who has, as you have, experienced this kind of violence. But I am also aware that it can take you over, in anger and grief, to an extent you never thought you could feel. I wish it could go away. It hasn't.

[hlthe2b]

30. I hate that anyone ever has to find out how they, themselve would react.

And, I agree we need to give a wide berth of understanding, in terms of reactions. :hug:

[CTyankee]

31. What is needed is a more information and education.

For instance, I have recently learned that first generation Americans are, statistically, the most patriotic of all Americans. They enlist for the most dangerous duties in the military and they are the most willing to cooperate with the authorities on anti-terrorism activities.

If Hoagland had been privy to that kind of information, instead of what she was obviously fed by Peter King and his ilk, she might have come away with a very different interpretation of what happened on 9/11.

This is a tragedy all around. Hoagland, for her understandable rage given her misinformation about her son's situation, and then for Ms. Hamdani who was targeted for hate attacks.

It would be nice if there was some sort of healing for the 9/11 victim survivors...

[sabrina 1]

16. Well, as someone who did lose the most important person

in my life in a fairly violent way about the same time as 9/11, neither I nor any of our family members experienced that kind of anger and hatred, not even for the person responsible.

That is a nasty woman who was most likely always that way. There is no special privilege we should expect because we experience a great tragedy in our lives. We are who are, and tragedy doesn't change a person's basic nature. I find her behavior to be despicable, and she should know that she doesn't get a pass because she suffered a tragedy.

It's been ten years and she, unlike others who suffer their grief without all the attention she got, got a lot of support for what happened. Most people do not get even a tiny % of that support. Yet no one I know who suffered just as much as she did, has ever exhibited that kind of behavior. If anything, a horrible tragedy, such as our family experienced, often has the opposite effect. It does make you realize, at least for a while, how trivial some of the things we used to care so much about, really are.

[CTyankee]

25. Well, I don't agree with her political decisions, but I kinda think her anger is

misdirected and that's where we hear her emotionalism is coming from. I am angrier at Peter King and the other haters who have stirred up people who are naturally upset to be narrowly focused and rabidly anti-Muslim. Of course, she could have been pretty bigoted to begin with. I don't really know. I do know the kind of anger you feel at the injustice of having a murder of a family victim. It does stay with you. It is the sadness and the tragedy of such a personal loss. As, of course, you well know...

[sabrina 1]

32. Yes, I agree the sadness and sense of loss doesn't leave you

but translating that into hatred for others has to mean it was there to some extent to begin with. Look at the difference in how eg, the Jersey Girls dealt with their grief.

I'm sorry if you have experienced such a tragedy, it is a lifelong loss I know even though time helps to mute the pain. But you are right, it does not ever go away.

[Richardo]

8. What? Matthews unprofessional and incompetent?

Shocking.

[Pisces]

10. Stooping to new lows for ratings??? I am sick of the MSM and their version of news.

[Dennis Donovan]

12. Alice Hoagland is the mother of Flight 93 passenger Mark Bingham...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Bingham

Death

Bingham was among the passengers who attempted to storm the cockpit of Flight 93 to try to prevent members of Al Qaeda, a terrorist organization, from using the plane to kill hundreds or thousands of additional victims as a part of the 9/11 attacks on the United States. He made a brief airphone call to his mother, Alice Hoagland (formerly spelled "Hoglan"), shortly before the plane went down. Hoagland, a former flight attendant with United Airlines, later left a voice mail message on his cell phone, instructing Bingham to reclaim the aircraft after it became apparent that Flight 93 was to be used in a suicide mission.

Bingham was survived by his boyfriend of six years, Paul Holm, who said this was not the first time Bingham had risked his life to protect the lives of others.<5><6> He had twice successfully protected Holm from attempted muggings, one at gunpoint.<6> Holm describes Bingham as a brave, competitive man, saying, "He hated to lose — at anything."<6> He was even known to proudly display a scar he received after being gored at the running of the bulls in Pamplona.<6>

Quote by Mark Bingham: "We have the chance to be role models for other gay folks who wanted to play sports, but never felt good enough or strong enough."<7>

"This is a great opportunity to change a lot of people's minds, and to reach a group that might never have had to know or hear about gay people. Let's go make some new friends... and win a few games."<2>

[hlthe2b]

15. I wish I likewise could post a bio of the son the Muslim mother lost on 911...

Oh, unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be one.

Not taking anything from Bingham. He sounds to me like a super guy that the world is the poorer for having lost. But, I'm betting there was something likewise special about that Muslim woman's son--something that Hoagland would never acknowledge through her bigotry and hate.

[hlthe2b]

19. Her son has no WIKI page, but the mother does....

So, let's give some acknowledgement to her brave son:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talat_Hamdani

Talat Hamdani is an American who became a commentator after her son was killed during Al Qaeda's attacks on September 11, 2001.<1><2><3><4><5><6> Her son, Mohammad Salman Hamdani, was a New York Police Department cadet.

In August 2004 the San Francisco Chronicle called Hamdani a "a vehement opponent of the Patriot Act", when they quoted her in an article about critics of George Bush who feared he would use the site of the 9-11 attacks for partisan political purposes during the 2004 Republican Convention.<2> Hamdani has described how her son -- a paramedic who had spontaneously made his way to help at the World Trade Center, only to die when the buildings collapsed -- was investigated following the attacks.<7><8>

A small number of the loved ones of those who died during al Qaeda's attack were selected to attend the Guantanamo military commissions of the most senior Guantanamo captives.<1> Talat was one of those chosen.

The King of Jordan invited Hamdani, and the surviving relatives of other American victims of terrorism, to sit beside him when he addressed the United States Congress in March 2007.<5> The theme of the King's speech was the need for the USA to play a leadership role in guiding the peace process in the middle east.

In 2010 Hamdani's support of the building of the "ground zero mosque" was widely repeated.<3><4> Hamdani told the San Diego Union Tribune that she felt muslims were being unfairly "targeted" for terrorist attacks, when the attacks killed muslims like her son. "Why are we paying the price? Why are we being ostracized? Our loved ones died. America was founded on the grounds of religious freedom is un-American. It's unethical. And it is wrong."

[Dennis Donovan]

21. Thank you for posting this! I'm watching the rebroadcast now...

Holy shit! I've never heard Hoagland get political before now. She keeps dropping Peter King's name and spewing some hateful stuff! Venturing a guess, Mark Bingham would be disappointed in his mother's bigotry.

[hlthe2b]

23. Watching that, I suspect Mark Bingham became the man he was....

IN SPITE of his mother and not as a result of her influence. Yes, I know tragedy can change people, but that kind of behavior towards another grieving 911 mother is just unacceptable.

[AngryOldDem]

17. Will this be on again at 7 EDT? I'd like to see this for myself...n/t

[hlthe2b]

18. It should be... Hardball normally repeats then..

[Blue_In_AK]

20. 9/11 mothers do not have to fall in lockstep. n/t

[hlthe2b]

24. nor does their loss give them impunity to attack/deride other 911 mothers.

[riverwalker]

22. Hoagland's creepy grin

I always remember her because she seemed to like being on camera, and always had a creepy grin. Not what I imagine a grieving mother would look like, especially right after it happened. Never knew how Right Wing she was until tonight.

[AngryOldDem]

37. So I'm not the only one,

I remember her being interviewed almost immediately after 9/11 and it disturbed me that she seemed to be really feeding on all the attention...almost (perversely) **enjoying** it, as compared to the other women (Jersey wives? Whatever they were called...) who were honestly and visibly angry and grieving.

[lillypaddle]

27. It was a good thing, awkward yes ... but gimme a break

9/11 mothers are people who have opinions and feelings, too, and yes - passionate disagreements. This was representative of our country as a whole. I didn't find it disgusting at all, I thought it was interesting.

The "disgused" reaction reminds me of kids who are grossed out at discovering that their parents have sex. These are two human beings who lost a great deal, are political beings, and had the courage to speak out about it. Good for them.

[jtuck004]

33. T. McVeigh blew the front third of the Federal Building in

Oklahoma City off the map, killing 168 people including the nursery of kids, and "bald guy" placed a bomb full of nails so it would cause the most casualties during the Martin Luther King Day parade in Spokane. These happend in places where I was living at the time. From what I have been able to read, BOTH of them had a Christian background. Add in the KKK and their ilk, often found in the pews of the Baptist churches on the weekend (and yes, they are still around), except when they are out setting off bombs that kill little girls in other people's churches.

There were scores of incidents of harassment, beating, and assault on Muslims in OKC even after McVeigh was arrested and identified. CNN even continued to report a potential Muslim connection, which there never has been.

So beyond bigotry and hatred, personal assaults and other assorted violence, this kind of attitude, the repetitive lies, make people think there is danger where there is not, and no danger when it exists. They forget the next terrorist, the one that might take out your family, could get missed 'cause they have it in their mind that the enemy can't look like them.

They are very, very wrong.

[lillypaddle]

36. I lived in OKC at the time

and was working about 20 blocks away when it happened. Blew the windows out of the office next door, so you don't need to tell me about OKC. I definitely support the Muslim Mom's point of view, and thought the other woman was way off base. I just was surprised that anyone would find it disgusting that two 9/11 mom's would so passionately disagree with one another.

That having been said, I'll have to google your statement about the scores of harassment, beating, and assaults on Muslims in OKC after McVeigh was arrested, because that isn't my memory at all. Do you have a link to support that statement?

[jtuck004]

38. Do you remember the lawsuit from the two Muslim men that were beaten?

There were several others. I will try to find a link.

My wife was in her office at 30th and Classen, windows busted out. I was on the road to Stillwater, there were people there that felt it, an hour away.


Here - http://www.religioustolerance.org/reac_ter1.htm

"A lot of people seemed to agree with this media speculation. Within two days after the Oklahoma City bombing, there were hundreds of recorded instances of harassment and hate crimes against Muslims, Arabs, Iraqis, people who appeared to be Muslims, and Muslim organizations and buildings. Two days after the explosion, Timothy McVeigh was arrested. But the anti-Muslim, anti-Arab, and anti- Iraqi attacks continued for weeks. 2 One Muslim woman miscarried after an attack. Local Muslims later asked to participate in a mass memorial service led by the Governor. They were refused. However, Muslim delegations from other areas of the country were allowed to attend. The service was entirely Judeo-Christian in format."

I have some others on another hard drive from back then, I will try to find it.

[lillypaddle]

39. That's okay, I'll take your word

I did find the link you just provided. I've probably just forgotten some of it - I remembered the discrimination, but somehow didn't fully remember the violence. Guess I blocked it out. I worked on NW 23rd off Hudson, sort of - lived on NW 27th. So howdy neighbor!:hi:

[TheKentuckian]

34. Because the hate is an interesting hypothetical not something you have to live with

for you.

This is the mentality that accepts putting people's rights up for a vote.

[lillypaddle]

35. You missed my point entirely

I wasn't commenting on WHAT they were saying, I was commenting on the OP's remarks that it was disgusting that two 9/11 mothers were having at it. The "interesting" part of it to me was that anyone would be shocked/disgusted that two of these people would so vehemently disagree.

[Ajamazin]

40. Alice Hoagland - "She Raised a Hero."

It was, in my mind, inappropriate of Alice Hoagland to use this forum to politicize her son's death.

Hoagland began by saying:

''I‘m delighted that President Obama points out that this day and this act transcends—transcends political party, absolutely.
Our dogmas can be set aside, because we can rejoice, as Americans, that an ugly, vicious terrorist has been put to rest.''

and then, in the next breath, introduced a hot button issue:

''although I have to say that I do support Representative Pete King in his effort to deal with the radical Islamization in America.''

What hypocrisy!

Hoagland feigned empathy to Mrs. Hamadani loss of her son and then Hoagland proceeded to provoke discord.
This is beyond insensitivity.

But, we must remember Alice Hoagland plays a prominent role in the documentar­y about her son, which is subtitled,
"She Raised a Hero." It will preview at the Castro Theatre on June 18.