Dalai Lama suggests bin Laden's death was justified -'Forgiveness doesn't mean forget what happened'

[jefferson_dem]

Dalai Lama suggests Osama bin Laden's death was justified

Speaking at USC, the Buddhist spiritual leader says of the Al Qaeda chief's assassination: 'Forgiveness doesn't mean forget what happened.'

Sept. 11, 2001 By Mitchell Landsberg, Los Angeles Times

May 4, 2011


The Dalai Lama spoke to a crowd of about 3,000 students at USC's Galen Center on Tuesday. Wednesday he is scheduled to accept an award in Long Beach and speak at UC Irvine. (Irfan Khan / Los Angeles Times)

As the leader of Tibetan Buddhism, the 14th Dalai Lama says he practices compassion to such an extent that he tries to avoid swatting mosquitoes "when my mood is good and there is no danger of malaria," sometimes watching with interest as they swell with his blood.

Yet, in an appearance Tuesday at USC, he appeared to suggest that the United States was justified in killing Osama bin Laden.

As a human being, Bin Laden may have deserved compassion and even forgiveness, the Dalai Lama said in answer to a question about the assassination of the Al Qaeda leader. But, he said, "Forgiveness doesn't mean forget what happened. … If something is serious and it is necessary to take counter-measures, you have to take counter-measures."

<SNIP>

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0504-dalai-lama-20110504,0,7229481.story

[Snoutport]

1. wow...

this helps my inner conflict.

[Luminous Animal]

8. Too bad it's false and you'll continue to have to grapple with your own moral conflict.

[Cali_Democrat]

2. With all due respect to the Dalai Lama

He's wrong.

If Bin Laden was unarmed, I feel that an attempt should have been made to capture him and place him on trial.

[Bonobo]

3. He did not suggest that or imply it in any way. nt

[Luminous Animal]

4. No he did not. That is the reporter's own fantasy.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1037144

[MineralMan]

5. Thank you, Dalai Lama.

Good sense from a very benevolent man.

[Luminous Animal]

6. Except he didn't. He answered two distinct questions among many questions.

There is zero evidence presented in ANY newspaper article of from the Dalai Lama's own website that these two questions (and issues) were linked.

One question dealt specifically with Osama.
Then later, another question dealt with the Dalai Lama's own ethical failure.

Though, there is probably no sense in trying to disabuse you of this fantasy, I'll post this anyway in hopes that others appreciate the truth.

http://www.dalailama.com/news/post/672-his-holiness-talks-about-secular-ethics-and-human-development-at-university-of-southern-california

"His Holiness then answered questions, some of which were submitted through the Internet. The first question was on His Holiness’ emphasis on compassion as a basis of ethics. It asked whether in some situation ensuring justice is more important than being compassionate to the perpetrator of a crime. It referred to the news of the death of Osama Bin Laden and the celebrations of it by some, and asked where compassion fit in with this and ethics. In his response, His Holiness emphasized the need to find a distinction between the action and the actor. He said in the case of Bin Laden, his action was of course destructive and the September 11 events killed thousands of people. So his action must be brought to justice, His Holiness said. But with the actor we must have compassion and a sense of concern, he added. His Holiness said therefore the counter measure, no matter what form it takes, has to be compassionate action. His Holiness referred to the basis of the practice of forgiveness saying that it, however, did not mean that one should forget what has been done.

His Holiness then answered a few other questions, including one relating to how a student should approach the issue of holding on to one’s principles while facing the reality of having to repay student loans and earn a living working for corporations whose principles did not complement his thinking. Here His Holiness said he wanted to quote the Buddha’s teaching that you are your own master and said the student should judge. To a question on whether His Holiness could think of any unethical acts that he had committed, His Holiness responded in the positive referring to “my relation with mosquitoes,” much to the amusement of the audience. His Holiness expanded saying if there was no risk of malaria then he would tolerate a mosquito or two sucking blood from his arm but when they come one after another, he would lose his patience."

[originalpckelly]

7. Now that sounds more like it.

[Luminous Animal]

9. Thank you. This lie is being blasted around the world and not one reporter

took the time to find out what was actually said. Not one. And it appears nobody contacted the Dalai Lama himself for clarification.

[jefferson_dem]

10. I think you're wrong.

He was answering a specific question about bin Laden.

Here's the wire report:

"The first question was on His Holiness' emphasis on compassion as a basis of ethics. It asked whether in some situation ensuring justice is more important than being compassionate to the perpetrator of a crime," it said.

"It referred to the news of the death of Osama bin Laden and the celebrations of it by some, and asked where compassion fit in with this and ethics.

In response he "emphasized the need to find a distinction between the action and the actor. He said in the case of bin Laden, his action was of course destructive and the September 11 events killed thousands of people.

"So his action must be brought to justice... But with the actor we must have compassion and a sense of concern... His Holiness said therefore the counter measure, no matter what form it takes, has to be compassionate action."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iA-sagU5ibaB8_R2gsRuwSgS3FbQ?docId=CNG.c4e5aaec1a6b9ae498dbebf05c7cebdc.12f1

And the excerpt from HH's website, which you reference above:

His Holiness then answered questions, some of which were submitted through the Internet. The first question was on His Holiness’ emphasis on compassion as a basis of ethics. It asked whether in some situation ensuring justice is more important than being compassionate to the perpetrator of a crime. It referred to the news of the death of Osama Bin Laden and the celebrations of it by some, and asked where compassion fit in with this and ethics. In his response, His Holiness emphasized the need to find a distinction between the action and the actor. He said in the case of Bin Laden, his action was of course destructive and the September 11 events killed thousands of people. So his action must be brought to justice, His Holiness said. But with the actor we must have compassion and a sense of concern, he added. His Holiness said therefore the counter measure, no matter what form it takes, has to be compassionate action. His Holiness referred to the basis of the practice of forgiveness saying that it, however, did not mean that one should forget what has been done.

http://www.dalailama.com/news/post/672-his-holiness-talks-about-secular-ethics-and-human-development-at-university-of-southern-california

Perhaps you're challenging the interpretation of "justice"; that HH's reference to "justice" did not mean he was, in fact, endorsing the killing of bin Laden but rather some broader interpretation. Sorry...that's not what I get from reading the field reports of what was actually said.

[Luminous Animal]

11. I gave you the narrative from the Dalai Lama's own website recapping the event up thread.

The Osama answer was specific to Osama.

The mosquito answer was specific to the Dalai Lama's own ethical failings.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=post&forum=439&topic_id=1038594&mesg_id=1038823

"His Holiness then answered questions, some of which were submitted through the Internet. The first question was on His Holiness’ emphasis on compassion as a basis of ethics. It asked whether in some situation ensuring justice is more important than being compassionate to the perpetrator of a crime. It referred to the news of the death of Osama Bin Laden and the celebrations of it by some, and asked where compassion fit in with this and ethics. In his response, His Holiness emphasized the need to find a distinction between the action and the actor. He said in the case of Bin Laden, his action was of course destructive and the September 11 events killed thousands of people. So his action must be brought to justice, His Holiness said. But with the actor we must have compassion and a sense of concern, he added. His Holiness said therefore the counter measure, no matter what form it takes, has to be compassionate action. His Holiness referred to the basis of the practice of forgiveness saying that it, however, did not mean that one should forget what has been done.

His Holiness then answered a few other questions, including one relating to how a student should approach the issue of holding on to one’s principles while facing the reality of having to repay student loans and earn a living working for corporations whose principles did not complement his thinking. Here His Holiness said he wanted to quote the Buddha’s teaching that you are your own master and said the student should judge. To a question on whether His Holiness could think of any unethical acts that he had committed, His Holiness responded in the positive referring to “my relation with mosquitoes,” much to the amusement of the audience. His Holiness expanded saying if there was no risk of malaria then he would tolerate a mosquito or two sucking blood from his arm but when they come one after another, he would lose his patience."

[jefferson_dem]

14. The question included a distinct reference to the death of bin Laden.

HH indicated that "his action must be brought to justice" and that we should not "forget what has been done." To me, that sounds like tacit acknowledgement that what happened in Abbottabad was justified.

[Luminous Animal]

19. None of those suggest or imply that he should have been shot. How are you even making this argument?

From his website he clearly states this:

"So his action must be brought to justice, His Holiness said. But with the actor we must have compassion and a sense of concern, he added. His Holiness said therefore the counter measure, no matter what form it takes, has to be compassionate action. His Holiness referred to the basis of the practice of forgiveness saying that it, however, did not mean that one should forget what has been done."

Are you really going to try to convince me that shooting Osama in the head is a compassionate action?

[Luminous Animal]

12. And you've actually proved my point. How can violently blowing a giant hole in a person's head

ever in any sense be construed as compassionate action?

[SidDithers]

13. K&R...nt

Sid

[underpants]

15. The Dalai frickin Lama???

YES!!!

[Luminous Animal]

16. Did not happen which I illustrated several times over on this thread.

If people would read beyond they OP, they might learn something. I always wondered why some people posted the same information over and over and over again in the same thread (and run the risk of being ridiculed) ... now I know why.

He was answering questions and the question about Osama and the question about the Dalai Lama's own ethical lapses were entirely different questions and answers. Linking the two is the reporters own fantasy.

From the Dalai Lama's own website:

http://www.dalailama.com/news/post/672-his-holiness-talks-about-secular-ethics-and-human-development-at-university-of-southern-california

"His Holiness then answered questions, some of which were submitted through the Internet. The first question was on His Holiness’ emphasis on compassion as a basis of ethics. It asked whether in some situation ensuring justice is more important than being compassionate to the perpetrator of a crime. It referred to the news of the death of Osama Bin Laden and the celebrations of it by some, and asked where compassion fit in with this and ethics. In his response, His Holiness emphasized the need to find a distinction between the action and the actor. He said in the case of Bin Laden, his action was of course destructive and the September 11 events killed thousands of people. So his action must be brought to justice, His Holiness said. But with the actor we must have compassion and a sense of concern, he added. His Holiness said therefore the counter measure, no matter what form it takes, has to be compassionate action. His Holiness referred to the basis of the practice of forgiveness saying that it, however, did not mean that one should forget what has been done.

His Holiness then answered a few other questions, including one relating to how a student should approach the issue of holding on to one’s principles while facing the reality of having to repay student loans and earn a living working for corporations whose principles did not complement his thinking. Here His Holiness said he wanted to quote the Buddha’s teaching that you are your own master and said the student should judge. To a question on whether His Holiness could think of any unethical acts that he had committed, His Holiness responded in the positive referring to “my relation with mosquitoes,” much to the amusement of the audience. His Holiness expanded saying if there was no risk of malaria then he would tolerate a mosquito or two sucking blood from his arm but when they come one after another, he would lose his patience."

[jefferson_dem]

17. It did happen...

even according to the cut/pastes from the naysayers. The only debatable point is over interpretations of "justice", according the Dalai Lama.

[Luminous Animal]

20. I posted two consecutive paragraphs directly from the Dalai Lama's website. You quoted a reporter.

The reporter clearly tries to link the Dalai Lama's remarks about Osama with his remarks about mosquitoes.

They are not linked and no matter how much you try you cannot make it so.

Once again...

http://www.dalailama.com/news/post/672-his-holiness-talks-about-secular-ethics-and-human-development-at-university-of-southern-california

"His Holiness then answered questions, some of which were submitted through the Internet. The first question was on His Holiness’ emphasis on compassion as a basis of ethics. It asked whether in some situation ensuring justice is more important than being compassionate to the perpetrator of a crime. It referred to the news of the death of Osama Bin Laden and the celebrations of it by some, and asked where compassion fit in with this and ethics. In his response, His Holiness emphasized the need to find a distinction between the action and the actor. He said in the case of Bin Laden, his action was of course destructive and the September 11 events killed thousands of people. So his action must be brought to justice, His Holiness said. But with the actor we must have compassion and a sense of concern, he added. His Holiness said therefore the counter measure, no matter what form it takes, has to be compassionate action. His Holiness referred to the basis of the practice of forgiveness saying that it, however, did not mean that one should forget what has been done.

His Holiness then answered a few other questions, including one relating to how a student should approach the issue of holding on to one’s principles while facing the reality of having to repay student loans and earn a living working for corporations whose principles did not complement his thinking. Here His Holiness said he wanted to quote the Buddha’s teaching that you are your own master and said the student should judge. To a question on whether His Holiness could think of any unethical acts that he had committed, His Holiness responded in the positive referring to “my relation with mosquitoes,” much to the amusement of the audience. His Holiness expanded saying if there was no risk of malaria then he would tolerate a mosquito or two sucking blood from his arm but when they come one after another, he would lose his patience."

[FreeState]

22. Not only that, he is nnot "the Buddhist spiritual leader" he is one of many n/t

[Luminous Animal]

21. If you read the comments from your linked article, you would know that people who were THERE

disagree with you, as well.

[rug]

18. Memory doesn't mean kill them.