Apache Tribe asks Obama to apologize for linking Geronimo's name to Bin Laden

[oberliner]

The Fort Sill Apache Tribe in Oklahoma is asking President Obama for a formal apology for using the code name "Geronimo" in reference to Osama Bin Laden during the successful operation that eventually killed the notorious terrorist.

"We are grateful that the United States was successful in its mission against Bin Laden, but associating Geronimo's name with an international terrorist only perpetuates old stereotypes about Apaches," Jeff Houser, chairman of the Fort Sill Apache Tribe, the successor to Geronimo’s Chiricahua Apache Tribe, wrote in a statement faxed Tuesday to the White House.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2011/05/apache-tribe-asks-obama-to-apologize-for-linking-geronimos-name-to-bin-laden.html

Do you think they will get one?

[Brickbat]

1. Yeah, this was a misstep. It wouldn't hurt to apologize.

I wouldn't hold my breath, though.

[OHdem10]

8. Not a misstep. Why are they just now complaining. I know

Paratroopers in WWII were using "Geronimo" to yell
as they made successful jump.

It is an honor to the Indians.

[Brickbat]

12. Is it an honor if they don't feel honored?

Times change and people's attitudes change. This is the second time you've used the phrase "just now complaining." Maybe 60 years ago no one was listening to them. Maybe during WWII they didn't know how to get their message out -- or figured no one would give a shit. If someone says something's bugging them, it's not hard for other people to listen and said, "OK, I'm sorry that bugs you -- I'll stop."

[Stuckinthebush]

15. Nice point

It's no honor if they don't think so. That's hard to argue against.

[bobbolink]

25. Very, very well said! That *used* to be how "progressives" deal with people.

:applause:

Could you please run for office where your understanding would help change this society for the better?

[KoKo]

28. Maybe the media hasn't reported it used since WWII...? Ya Think?

Maybe some Vietnam Vets could chime in here and even Korean War Vets could tell us if "GERONIMO!" was cod word for "Mission Accomplished? :shrug:

[KittyWampus]

11. No, it wasn't a misstep. They weren't using the name to refer to bin Laden.

[Brickbat]

13. I realize that. It doesn't change my opinion.

[Zenlitened]

21. Agreed, it would be a simple thing to acknowledge the misstep and apologize.

Here on DY, however, I expect it won't be long before the Fort Still Apache Tribe is accused of "poutrage," wanting "a pony," etc.

[bobbolink]

24. That's what adults do. They apologize. How much would it cost to say "We Are Sorry"???

I mean... really???

[hootinholler]

37. My guess is about $10K

Until you add up all the little things like printer paper, the presser, etc.

I think they should do it.

-Hoot

[CJCRANE]

2. It was the name of the mission so it's associated with the Navy SEALs.

I thought Bin Laden's codename was "Jackpot".

[pinboy3niner]

6. Exactly--Robb posted an OP on it:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1035723

[bobbolink]

26. That. Doesn't. Matter.

Telling Indians to just suck it up is childish.

[elleng]

3. Potus may have 'quoted' what the SEALs said,

but it wasn't his idea. Maybe SEALs/CIA should apologize or acknowledge?

[bobbolink]

30. Do you remember a well-liked Democratic president who said, "The buck stops here?"

[JoePhilly]

4. Should have gone with "Palomino" as the safe word.

[Dreamer Tatum]

5. Or maybe CHRISTIANWHITEMALE. nt

[cherokeeprogressive]

31. What, piss off a bunch of pretty horses? n/t

[OHdem10]

7. First of all, the Military has been using Gernomio since I was a

child. Therefore it is much more likely the Seals
and CIA named their mission, not the President.

I find it fascinating that they are just now complaining
about the use of Geronimo. Paratroopers were using it
during WWII.

[pinboy3niner]

14. It reportedly was inspired by the 1939 movie, 'Geronimo'

It started after some paratroopers saw the movie, and became the official motto of the Army's 501st Parachute Infantry Regiment, whose patch featured a profile of the Chiricahua warrior with a lightning bolt, and whose crest is a stylized thunderbird:







The story of the origin of the paratrooper's cry is detailed at the link below, along with this explanation of how it became incorporated officially in the unit's motto and insignia:

Over the next few years of wartime expansion, that platoon grew into battalions, then regiments, then finally five Airborne Divisions with numerous separate battalions. The practice of yelling, "Geronimo" grew in proportion to the surging US Army Airborne effort. More units formed and they quickly picked up the yell but the great chief's name would not only be shouted, it would be worn on the caps, lapels and shirt pockets of many of those brave men. As new units, they were free to design their own insignias and pocket patches. The Army's first parachute battalion, the 501st Parachute Infantry Battalion (PIB), would incorporate the great chief's name into their unit insignia in 1941. Major William Miley, the 501st commander, gave the Geronimo tradition an important endorsement by choosing "Geronimo" as the motto on the 501st PIB unit insignia, a device worn on the dress uniform of every soldier in the unit. Maj. Miley even had sergeant major locate relatives of the real chief Geronimo to ask their permission for use of the chief's name in the unit insignia. He located them with the help of the Bureau of Indian Affairs and they granted permission with pride.



Of the dozens of Airborne regiments and battalions that formed during WWII, two incorporated Geronimo into their pocket patches. Pocket patches were worn on the right chest pocket. When the 501st PIB was redesignated as the 501st PIR in 1942, it adopted a pocket patch with an Apache chief holding a bolt of lightning over the word, "Geronimo". Also, the 509th PIR used the word, "Geronimo" on its pocket patch. A few years into the war, the Paramount B western origin of the Geronimo yell was probably all but forgotten, but the "Geronimo" yells and the Indian theme still loomed large over the US Army Airborne. This was seen in the 101st Airborne Division soldiers with war paint and Mohawk haircuts on the eve of the D-Day invasion, and still heard as paratroopers exited C-47 planes over Fort Benning, Fort Bragg and staging areas in England. Geronimo would also be sung, when Lieutenant Colonel Byron Paige of the 11th Airborne Division wrote one of the classic WWII paratrooper songs, Down From Heaven to celebrate the relationship of paratroopers to the Geronimo cry. (The number eleven comes from the number of paratroopers in a plane.)

http://www.b-westerns.com/geronimo.htm

[dflprincess]

16. "We've always done it this way so it can't be wrong to keep doing so

no matter who it offends"

:sarcasm:

There are a lot of terms that used to be commonly used that we have abandoned. I don't understand why, when it comes to Native Americans objecting to something, someone always decides they're the problem and that they should be "honored" to have stereotypes perpetuated.

[bobbolink]

27. Yeah, the "N" word comes immediately to mind.

I guess with this crowd, it would be Ok to name a ship USS "N".

[fishwax]

18. there's a difference, though, with using it to describe one of the most reviled figures in the world

Paratroopers using it during WWII did so as an expression of courage, so it's hardly the same thing.

(Note: there are conflicting reports about whether it was the mission or OBL himself that was code-named Geronimo, but the letter of complaint mentioned in the OP objected to OBL being called Geronimo.)

[Drunken Irishman]

9. This is not the first operation to use Geronimo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Geronimo_Strike
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Geronimo_Strike_II
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Geronimo_Strike_III

These operations were happening well before Pres. Obama became president.

[KittyWampus]

10. Geronimo was not used to refer to bin Laden. So no, they won't get an apology.

[fishwax]

17. a few points

First, there are conflicting reports over whether it was OBL who was code-named Geronimo or whether the mission itself was code-named Geronimo. All of the reports that I've read about people who object to the name (as well as people I've communicated with personally) are offended that OBL would be associated with Geronimo, who is a heroic and admired figure for many Native Americans. Further, for those I've talked to personally, at least, that difference is important, and they wouldn't be offended by the mission name. Perhaps, then, in light of the conflicting reports, a simple clarification rather than an apology would suffice.

Second, similar issues have come up before. Just this March, for instance, a Pentagon lawyer submitted a legal brief (can't remember the case exactly, but it had something to do with Gitmo) in which he argued that the "belligerent" Seminoles who fought rather than being removed from their homelands by Andy Jackson's administration, were "not unlike al Quaeda." There were plenty of people in Native American press and communities pissed off about that, but it didn't make big news nationally. Native American issues rarely do.

Third, I think it's important that one consider the source when one responds to issues such as this. To begin with, there is no criticism of the president implied in suggesting that assigning Geronimo as the codename for OBL is a bad idea. Just as President Obama deserves credit for the leadership and decision-making in the lead-up to the mission, though, it's only natural that someone such as John Houser, who has a specific concern about this matter, would address that to the president. All in all, I think that, as criticism of the president goes, the actual letter that Houser wrote to the Obama is pretty measured: http://bsnorrell.blogspot.com/2011/05/apache-chairman-houser-geronimo-no.html.

Now, if someone like Boehner or Beck or O'Reilley or any other hack partisan were making an issue of this, I would think it reasonable to laugh it off as a cynical, absurd, etc. But when complaints are coming from within the Native community (and I haven't heard any non-Native political or media figures make an issue of this), even if one doesn't agree with the substance of the complaint, I think it is unfortunate and unwise (and also reflects poorly on our community and our party) to respond dismissively (and especially with charges of bitterness, whining, poutrage, etc.).

[JonLP24]

22. Agree 100%

+1

[bobbolink]

29. Thank you. You are absolutely correct, and I appreciate your sensitivity and the

mature way you have expressed it.

:yourock:

My Indian friends would appreciate your words.

[Zenlitened]

32. Excellent post - n/t

[Starbucks Anarchist]

19. The operation was named Geronimo, OBL was named Jackpot.

[oberliner]

20. Where do you get that from?

Lots of articles have said the opposite.

[pinboy3niner]

23. Wiki's updated and corrected refeerence:

Code name

There were conflicting reports in the media regarding what the official mission code name was. Originally reported as "Operation Geronimo" it was subsequently reported as "Operation Neptune('s) Spear", with "Jackpot" as the code name for bin Laden himself and "Geronimo" for bin Laden's capture or death.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Osama_bin_Laden

[oberliner]

33. Wikipedia's source for that reference is the Christian Broadcast Network

Other articles say:

The UK Telegraph said CIA director Leon Panetta spoke it. "We have a visual on Geronimo."

When they heard the message they knew the SEALs team had spotted bin Laden. About 40 minutes later they got the next message, Geronimo EKIA, spoken by a Navy SEAL who was saying enemy killed in action.

http://www.my9tv.com/dpps/my9_news/geronimo-code-name-for-osama-bin-laden-mission-dpgoha-20110503-fc_13036573

The code name “Geronimo” was assigned to bin Laden because of his elusiveness. (Chief Geronimo, like bin Laden, evaded capture for years.)

http://blog.seattlepi.com/thebigblog/2011/05/03/offensive-or-not-osama-bin-ladens-code-name-was-geronimo/

[JoePhilly]

34. I heard the same on either CNN or MSNBC yesterday too.

Can't recall which. But it was one of those 2. They are the only news channels I ever have on.

[Obamanaut]

35. No aploogy is needed for the use of what is not an uncommon surname.

And it has several variations.

http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/Geronimo

Why is it necessary to apologize to one group for the use of the nickname, 'aka', alias of one member of that group?

[Brickbat]

36. "Why is it necessary to apologize to one group for the use of the nickname, 'aka', alias of one

member of that group?"

Because they asked, and they said it bothered them. The administration would lose nothing by apologizing.

[DFab420]

38. Considering that Geronimo was mission successful call sign

AND NOT BIN LADENS!

I doubt they will get an apology

[no_hypocrisy]

39. Simply put, an apology for not changing the name due to our version of American history.

Geronimo was considered an "in house terrorist" 150 years ago. To the Native Americans who were resisting a pogrom by the federal government and those wanting land occupied by the Native Americans, Geronimo was a hero for thwarting efforts to capture him and/or kill him.

By equating Geronimo with Bin Ladin, the former historical figure is branded as a terrorist instead of a consideration of the historical events and the situation.

[blondeatlast]

40. Regardless of it's past use, it would be a diplomatic thing to do.--but it shouldn't be a

priority nor a big press thing.