bin Laden, Twin Towers workers, Pentagon employees, American & United flight passengers, ALL UNARMED

[Amerigo Vespucci]

Osama Bin Laden Was Unarmed During Navy SEAL Raid, Says White House

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/03/osama-bin-laden-unarmed-during-raid_n_857257.html

Guess he found out how it felt to have his life taken away from him. Navy SEALs shot the unarmed piece of shit who orchestrated the deaths of 3000+ human beings and then spent the next decade crowing about it. FUCK HIS DEAD UNARMED ASS. As Clint Eastwood said, "Maybe he should have armed himself."

[Ohio Joe]

1. K&R - nt

[blondeatlast]

2. But some of them had the luxury of choice--

between burning to death or jumping.

What you said.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

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[joshcryer]

8. Backed it up.

:hi:

[JonLP24]

9. I did

Not because I'm an OBL sympathizer. Just not a fan of this kind of argument like terrorists will torture Americans so we shouldn't be concerned about torturing Guantanamo detainees.

[joshcryer]

10. I don't like people thinking they can read the minds of those who were there.

I don't like judgments being passed without the information being available.

[JonLP24]

12. I haven't done such a thing

I myself am waiting for more information. I just took issue with that particular argument which can be used for various things. Like the robber didn't give the clerk a fair trial before he killed him so therefore we shouldn't be concerned if police beat the robber to death in police custody.

[coalition_unwilling]

19. Make that 'alleged robber' - n/t

[Turborama]

11. Thanks for your explanation.

I had no idea why someone would unrec it, so suggested a 'possibility'.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

4. It almost sounds as if you didn't like him very much

I didn't either.

Still, if he was unarmed and if there was a chance (no, I have no idea if such a chance existed), I'd love to have put him in a bag and carried him off for interrogation. I'll bet some pretty interesting knowledge died along with him.

[bluestateguy]

5. He was fair game until and unless he surrendurred

and there is no indication that he ever did so.

I would only add to your OP to not forget the Africa embassy bombings, the London Underground, the 3/11 attacks and the khobar Towers bombing and much much more.

[Turborama]

15. And the hundreds of victims of the Bali and Jakarta bombings.

They got http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noordin_Top">Noordin Top last September, too. So it's been a good 9 months for the world's vermin exterminators.

[coalition_unwilling]

21. They shot and killed an unarmed man (White House confirmed it today).

Team that did so was sent there to execute him extra-judicially. See Reuters report:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/02/us-binladen-kill-idUSTRE7413H220110502

[Turborama]

23. They had no idea whether the place was booby trapped and he could've had a button on him somewhere

Just one scenario that may well have been going through their minds at the time.

[sweetloukillbot]

31. There also may have been an AK-47 leaning against the wall three feet from him.

He'd still be unarmed, but if he was moving in the direction of said AK-47, I'd probably shoot him too.

They might have been yelling for him to get on the ground and he didn't - he might have had a suicide capsule - he might have come running towards them screaming "Allah Akbar". We don't know what happened in that compound.

And if we took him alive - what would we do with him? Send him to Gitmo? Cause he sure as shit wouldn't be coming to a supermax in America - if we don't want to bring the lesser Al Qaeda operatives onto AMerican soil, there's no way that Bin Laden would be coming here - the Republicans and a healthy number of dems would make sure he wasn't at Leavenworth or the proposed Supermax in Thomson Ill.
And where would he be tried? I really don't see this going to the World Court.

While I was not celebrating in the streets, I was shocked and somewhat overcome by the celebrations - I could feel the catharsis through the images. IT was more than just simple jingoism.

I shed no tears over his death, I salute the soldiers who carried out the mission with minimal collateral damage and I am proud of the president who actually followed through on getting the man responsible for so many attacks on Americans, and other allies throughout the world.


I'm reminded of Eddie Izzard talking about Hitler, I paraphrase. "And Hitler ended up dead in a bunker, on fire. You know why? Because he was a murderous fuckhead."

[bluestateguy]

24. And?

So?

[coalition_unwilling]

25. So did you bother to read the Reuters report???? It cites an

unnamed U.S. security official as saying team was sent there with orders to kill bin Laden, not to take his surrender.

Report was not corroborated yesterday, but there are some reports in the French press today citing sources at the NSA that it was indeed a 'kill' mission.

Whatever, dude, it's clear you're fully onboard the extra-judicial assassination express. God speed.

[Name removed]

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[Amonester]

7. Not only them: Survivor of '98 US Embassy bombing reacts to bin Laden death

WILMINGTON, NC (WWAY) -- Osama bin Laden's death stirred emotions of relief and celebration all over the world today. Families of those who lost their lives during the 9/11 terrorist attacks were finally given a sense of closure.

But before September 11, Osama bin Laden became a household name after his involvement in the bombings of American Embassies in Africa. In 1998, embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed within minutes of each other. The attacks left more than 200 killed and thousands injured.

Jim Owens, who has a house in Wilmington, survived the bombing in Tanzania. Owens was working as a humanitarian in Africa in 1998. He was at a meeting at the US Embassy in Dar es Salaam when it was bombed.

"I think most of the people to the right of me died," said Owens. "I suffered some substantial injuries. I had a brain injury, which resulted in PTSD. I have seizures. I was in the hospital for three days in September because of the seizures.”

http://www.wwaytv3.com/2011/05/02/survivor-98-us-embassy-bombing-reacts-to-bin-laden-death

Never Forget

[Withywindle]

13. I'm shedding no tears for him.

Nor am I wringing my hands, any more than I would when any other mass murderer happens to get shot during a police raid.

Yes, I suppose a trial would have been preferable in an abstract sense I understand intellectually. But I'm very skeptical about the ability of a criminal of this magnitude to get a "fair trial" anywhere. We are not the same world we were in the time of Nuremberg. So ultimately, I don't believe that would ever have worked. Every time he masterminded the deaths of innocents from a distance (remember, he hasn't actually gone into battle himself since when, the 80s?), enlisting lots of other people to do the killing and dying, he should have known damn well that the odds of his own death being violent were getting up into the nearly-inevitable.

He should have welcomed it, if he believed in martyrdom that much--but he didn't believe in it enough to actually carry out a suicide mission HIMSELF, now did he?

[Kurovski]

16. I'm speculating that he didn't welcome martyrdom, but had a sweet deal

when Bush repeatedly assured the world he no longer cared to find "Osama Shit Sodden" and so then got his ass out of cave-life, built his dream fortress ( with whose help if anyone's, I ask?) and settled down with his wives, kids and armed guards.

Who would have guessed that his idyll would have been ended when a US president came to office who-- while keeping some of Bush's shitty decisions on the books--still turned around the casual attitude about getting Osama, and romped his ass.

[Withywindle]

22. Yup, that's what I think too, more or less.

He had a VERY nice life. Turns out he wasn't living in a cave after all. Far from it. It's better than innocent poor people get.

Why DID Bush give up so quickly? OK, because Bush was a feckless lazy drunk who had no attention span for anything that wasn't a self-aggrandizing photo-op. I get that. The real question is why did Cheney go along with giving up so quickly? And I'm going to guess that Bin Laden's sweet deal was no big secret to him.

It's actually really kind of twisted that we can say that Obama still retains enough "idealism" to be somewhat sincere about the vengeance that a lot of American people want, that he was able to see it through. That he cared enough about those people who want it, to get it done.

And I know I'm kind of a little bit twisted for admiring that, because I did want that vengeance, once. I used to live in NYC and I have friends who are still dealing with the PTSD from things they directly witnessed. I'm kind of surprised at how little emotion I'm feeling over this, either way. But ultimately, I'm glad it got done, and I'm glad Obama did it, and I still really, really hope that proof of the Bush administration's complicity will come to light someday. Probably not for decades, but I still hold on to the belief that it will, I just hope I'll still have enough mind left to read the blogs about it from my nursing home. (I'm 41 now)

[Kurovski]

28. The timeline is interesting: Bush says "no more hunt" in 2004...

And Bin Ladin's fort ground-breaking was 2005. A man needs a place to store his dialysis machine, and a cave is notoriously lacking in 220 outlets.

I wouldn't even dream of criticizing a traumatized individual's reaction to the death of those who traumatized them. I can't because I've been there. We all work these things out on our own timeline.

I wish we could get members of the Bush administration in court, even overseas. I wonder if we can trick Bush onto a plane for Spain? Or maybe say he won a widescreen television to snag his ass like all the other Felons. We need a master plan. :)

[Withywindle]

30. Uh huh, nice timing.

I'm one of those who was surprised by the news, because i thought that OBL had probably died years ago, probably of natural causes (kidney disease, hello) and either "we" didn't know, or it would be hushed up forever because it was so embarrassingly anticlimactic.

now, obviously the man was wealthy and had the resources to build himself a nice hideout. I just can't believe he could have pulled it off if the full forces of US intelligence had been on the job all along, as the Bush boys claimed.

Bin Laden is to blame for all the acts of terrorism he set in motion, and that's why I'm glad he's dead. He deserved it, no question in my mind.

But most of the deaths in Afghanistan--and pretty much ALL of the ones in Iraq--I lay squarely on the shoulders of Bush and Cheney. They USED the pain and grief of Americans to justify inflicting more and more death for the sake of their egos, political ideologies, and wealth.


(Thanks for not judging emotional responses, BTW. I've had friends who were murdered--at least in one case, involving rape and torture--and you bet I want an eye for an eye. I know it's not "good." I know it's not "moral." But still, the heart wants what it wants. I am not evolved enough to rise above. I don't think my feelings should be law, but they are still my feelings and I have a right to them.)

[OhioChick]

14. Whether he was armed or not....

.....whether it was an assassination mission..or not, the bastard got what he deserved.

Kudos to the Navy SEALs.

[Warren DeMontague]

17. Yeah.

I'm not one to usually express the sentiment about anyone, but for that guy, good fucking riddance.

[coalition_unwilling]

18. Translation: Two wrongs make a right and the end justifies

the means.

FAIL

Unrec (not because I sympathize with an Islamo-fascist like OBL but because I still believe in the rule of law, as quaint and obsolete as that may seem).

[Turborama]

20. Another phrase can be used as a translation: "Live by the sword, die by the sword"

[blondeatlast]

32. It must be extremely stressful to be morally perfect. I'm human and I have these

nasty emotions and stuff to deal with.

I envy you; maybe that makes you feel even better about yourself.

I'm glad the motherfucker is dead.

[coalition_unwilling]

34. Here's a modest proposal for your condescending, patronizing

self: let's execute anyone accused of a capital crime without bothering with such niceties as a trial first. Execution without trial is so much more efficient, money-saving and all.

Bring back the Star Chamber!

:sarcasm:

[blondeatlast]

36. Oh, golly--get my peeearls! (faints). nt

[Leopolds Ghost]

35. I'm glad he's gone, but we aren't mindless. Sound reasons to take alive else why go in w/men at all?

[Turborama]

37. One sound reason to go in with men was to get all his hard drives & flash disks, which they did

Also, as I mentioned above, none of us know what potential dangers the SEALs were facing (booby trapped building & a hidden trigger, gun close to him that he was moving towards, etc) even if Bin Laden didn't actually have a gun in his hand at the time.

[Bonobo]

27. You think equating the US's actions with those of a terrorist is a good argument?

That's fucked up.

Maybe you should have spent another minute before posting.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

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[Leopolds Ghost]

33. What concerns me is seem to have no desire to take him alive-and yet want his wife for questioning?

[Scurrilous]

38. K & R

:thumbsup: