Do the people crying about Bin Laden not getting a trial really think

[apples and oranges]

that he would have received a fair trial in the United States? And if you think so, what would have happened if he was found innocent? Do you think any Democrat would have a chance of getting elected for the next 50 years? I don't think Bin Laden is worth being in the wilderness under Tea Party rule for the next 50-100 years and I hope you don't think so either.

[sabrina 1]

1. He could have been tried in an International Court.

He killed people of many nationalities, not just Americans even though we always seem to forget that for some reason. Many other countries had reason to want to see him tried also.

[pnwmom]

28. He could have been if he'd turned himself in to an intermediary country.

Instead, he chose to hide, and he chose to fight when the Seals arrived.

He didn't have a trial? That was his choice.

[quinnox]

2. as sabrina said, the hague for instance

he could of been tried there as an international terrorist.

[redwitch]

14. Do you think they could have captured him alive?

I don't.

[quinnox]

21. its possible

they knew where he was a long time. maybe they could have thrown in sleeping gas or stun gas or whatever to neutralize resistance instead of going in with guns blazing.

[TheCowsCameHome]

3. He had one. A brief one.

Last night.

The only one he deserved.

[whatchamacallit]

4. I love this part: "...what would have happened if he was found innocent?"

Maybe a rethink of our cherished myths?

[gratuitous]

35. Exhibit A why bin Laden couldn't be tried

Our national religion is the High Church of Redemptive Violence. While the words mouthed at the inauguration sound like the President is swearing an oath to protect, preserve and defend the Constitution, he's really saying that he swears fealty to violence, which has unrivaled power to save any situation. Any situation that doesn't yield to violence is to have more violence inflicted on it until it does yield. We can see these practical applications in Iraq and Afghanistan, and any perception of the failure of violence is a chimera. We will continue to inflict violence in those countries until all their problems are solved.

Bless the gun, the missile, and the holy warhead.

[Mz Pip]

5. I'm glad they just shot him

If that makes me a hypocrite or a bad liberal so be it. A trial would have be a global circus.

Besides, it's not like he tried to surrender by coming out wearing a white flag.

[OhioChick]

10. Well said and agreed n/t

[whatchamacallit]

12. I know! Let's just do that with all difficult and messy legal issues from now on!

:wtf:

[Mz Pip]

19. Yes, let's.

:sarcasm:

If people can't tell the difference between a battle in a war zone and going in an arresting a guy I can't help you figure it out.

[coalition_unwilling]

33. For some reason, your post (whose gist I really wish i could rec) made

me really sad, probably because that attitude is so endemic among DUers right now.

[Drahthaardogs]

37. You are so right!

He declared war (in whatever capacity he could) on the U.S. and slaughtered 3,000 civilians. I am glad he is dead. I hope a pregnant women was the one who "washed" his body and I hope a woman menstruating put the sheet around him. Yeah, it's a bad position on my part, and against what I typically espouse as a democrat. If it makes me a hypocrite, oh well, I will own this one. He was evil incarnate. Fuck him.

[peace13]

43. Just curious. * was evil and has planned and carried out illegal wars.

He too was evil incarnate as far as I can tell. Are you good with the Marines visiting him in the night?

[EFerrari]

6. Is that what speaking up about due process is now, "crying"?

I could swear I've heard O'Reilly, Hannity et all say exactly the same thing.

[WillyT]

11. Psst...

Apparently many Americans do not know a whole lot about their own country.

:shrug:

:hi:

[EFerrari]

16. Ignorance of the law is no --- oh, wait, I said "law" again. lol

[sabrina 1]

39. Sad, isn't it?

I guess the cycle is complete. We are no longer even interested in 'justice'. With the left now joining the right in ignoring all laws, domestic and international and using violence instead. Just like the terrorists we so condemn. All we care about is 'revenge'.

The US has a long, long way to go before it is ever a country that can claim to be a 'just' country. A 'vengeful' one, yes. All those high ideals about being better, about changing how things used to be when this country was founded.

Two hundred years later and we are nowhere near achieving those ideals.

[Warren Stupidity]

7. nobody is "crying" so stop being an asswipe. nt.

[peace13]

9. Way to say it Warren! n/t

[peace13]

8. I wouldn't call it crying!

If I read you right it is better to kill an innocent man than to risk you having an uncomfortable life under a tea bagger. I prefer to live in a country where rights are respected. If I get arrested I want a fair trial and would stand up for that same right for everyone. Under your scenario if you think I am guilty you should go ahead and put me out ....just in case. This is not my America!

[apples and oranges]

20. That's the thing... if the teabaggers get in, nobody's rights will be

respected. It's a case of sacrificing one for the good of many.

[peace13]

22. Your rights are gone now!

Read the 'Patriot Act' and research Homeland Security. We are there!!! The final piece, emptying the bank accounts of the last standing Americans is underway! It does not warrant racing around the world killing all of the 'bad guys' in the name of democracy or what ever they are calling it now.

[LanternWaste]

27. The abrogation of human rights for political expediency?

"It's a case of sacrificing one for the good of many..."

The abrogation of human rights for political expediency. Six of one, half a dozen of the other. I imagine it simply depends on one's own biases. :shrug:

[JuniperLea]

13. He is the one who told us he was responsible...

And he told us that many times.

I'm not sure he could have been captured alive anyway.

[Bucky]

15. Zacarias Moussaoui got a fair trial. So did John Muhammad & Jose Padilla

All found guilty. The rule of law works.

[apples and oranges]

17. How can it be a fair trial if only one outcome is possible or accepted?

[LanternWaste]

26. Post hoc ergo prompter hoc...

"How can it be a fair trial if only one outcome is possible or accepted..."

Post hoc ergo prompter hoc...?

[dgibby]

18. Not if you're tortured first. n/t

[JVS]

23. Trials are interesting because of who can be implicated.

In the case of Bin Laden, who has extensive connections to the CIA, such an exercise could be fascinating. Of course, they couldn't allow that to happen.

[TheKentuckian]

24. Unrecced due to justifying abandoning the rule of law out of fear of TeaPubliKlans.

You sound like a person more interested in appearing to be shrewd than principled.

I don't find it easy to believe in something unless it is inconvenient or unpopular and then to flip the script.

[Abq_Sarah]

29. The rule of law?

President Obama violated no US laws in yesterday's operation.

Osama wasn't on US soil, he's not a US citizen and is not entitled to any "due process".

Under the criteria of some, you'd think that we should be arresting Afghans shooting at us and bringing them back for trial. :sarcasm:

[TheKentuckian]

40. I didn't say anything of the sorts and have no problem with taking bin Laden out.

Your post was more in the dark ager fuck a trial for this fucker because it might cost politically type screed.

The government can never act outside the Constitution. If he had been captured then a trial would absolutely be dictated and if he surrendered and was ordered killed it would have been illegal, from order to execution. Being killed in hot battle, in combative resistance of arrest, or even in a strike is not even close to targeted or battlefield executions.

I opposed the global battlefield and "the Constitution doesn't apply outside America" theories bullshit when BushCo. was shoveling it and ain't a damn thing changed.

[Abq_Sarah]

41. The constitution doesn't apply outside America

And its silly to presume it does.

American law doesn't apply in Pakistan. bin Laden wasn't eligible for any due process other than what came from the barrel of a rifle.

[TheKentuckian]

45. The Constitution always applies to the US government and it's actions.

You are talking nonsense. How does a government act outside of it's base document? It has no authority to exist not granted by the Constitution and the government's agents have no extra-Constitutional powers.

Our Constitution does no apply to Pakistan but it certainly dictates how our agents act there.
You are pushing straight Nixonian/Bush nonsense. We have a limited form of government with enumerated powers, it cannot act outside of the Constitution on Alpha Centauri, Pakistan, Huntsville, past, future, or present because there is no legal "outside" the Constitution for our government or it's agents.

You cannot show a carve out or an exception because it is completely made up.

[Vattel]

25. So to prevent an unfair trial we should punish without trial?

Moreover, to avoid the possible verdict of innocence that might result from a fair trial, we should punish without a trial?

Gee, I'm guessing you don't belong to the ACLU.

[Bluebear]

30. Who is crying exactly?

[coalition_unwilling]

31. In other words, the end (not being under Tea Party rule) justifies the means (extra-

judicial assassination).

No one is 'crying' about OBL not getting a trial, but your language ("crying") reveals your mindset about civil liberties and quaint and obsolete concepts like due process of law.

[Rowdyboy]

32. He got far better than he deserved....

May he rot

[Cleita]

34. Well, look at what we might be missing.

A trial could have brought up some messy stuff about the Bush family et al. and their ties to the bin Laden family and just how compromised we are with our buddy, buddy relationship with Saudi Arabia. Just saying. Laugh all you want. I don't give a shit

[Politicalboi]

36. It's what we are supposed to do

It involves 9/11 and the government doesn't want to go there. That's what I get from this. Granted it would be hard to get a fair trial, but we should at least try.

[Cleita]

38. You are right. The government definitely doesn't want

to go there. Just remember the Gulf of Tonkin that got us into the Viet Nam war. At least back then we had an honest press that would go there until they got the facts.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

42. You're nothing, if not predictable. (n/t)

[snooper2]

44. I'm just pissed they didn't put him in a ring with Kimbo Slice

:P

[mmonk]

46. Truth trumps all opinions.

Truth is something we haven't gotten because we abandoned any pretext of the rule of law. I really don't care either way on his fate. I do care about ours.

[JonLP24]

47. I don't care about election hopes

when it comes to fair trials and I believe it is dangerous to make decisions in that area when thinking about being elected.

That said, I don't know enough about the Bin Laden death to know if they had a surefire opportunity to take him alive or if the raid was legal(there is an article floating around that looks into that).