Chris Hedges on OBL's Death

[nosmokes]

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/chris_hedges_speaks_on_osama_bin_ladens_death_20110502/

[nonperson]

1. "And I watched as a nation drank deep from that very dark elixir of American nationalism"

"And I watched as a nation drank deep from that very dark elixir of American nationalism … the flip side of nationalism is always racism, it’s about self-exaltation and the denigration of the other." - Chris Hedges

Many are drinking even deeper here today at DU.

[Hissyspit]

10. Kick & Recommend

Chris Hedges Speaks on Osama bin Laden’s Death

Posted on May 1, 2011

Chris Hedges, speaking at a Truthdig fundraising event in Los Angeles on Sunday evening, made these remarks about Osama bin Laden’s death.

But I’m also intimately familiar with the collective humiliation that we have imposed on the Muslim world. The expansion of military occupation that took place throughout, in particular the Arab world, following 9/11—and that this presence of American imperial bases, dotted, not just in Iraq and Afghanistan, but in Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Doha—is one that has done more to engender hatred and acts of terror than anything ever orchestrated by Osama bin Laden.

- snip -

So I was in the Middle East in the days after 9/11. And we had garnered the empathy of not only most of the world, but the Muslim world who were appalled at what had been done in the name of their religion. And we had major religious figures like Sheikh Tantawi, the head of al-Azhar—who died recently—who after the attacks of 9/11 not only denounced them as a crime against humanity, which they were, but denounced Osama bin Laden as a fraud … someone who had no right to issue fatwas or religious edicts, no religious legitimacy, no religious training. And the tragedy was that if we had the courage to be vulnerable, if we had built on that empathy, we would be far safer and more secure today than we are.

We responded exactly as these terrorist organizations wanted us to respond. They wanted us to speak the language of violence. What were the explosions that hit the World Trade Center, huge explosions and death above a city skyline? It was straight out of Hollywood. When Robert McNamara in 1965 began the massive bombing campaign of North Vietnam, he did it because he said he wanted to “send a message” to the North Vietnamese—a message that left hundreds of thousands of civilians dead.

- snip -

And empire finally, as Thucydides understood, is a disease. As Thucydides wrote, the tyranny that the Athenian empire imposed on others it finally imposed on itself. The disease of empire, according to Thucydides, would finally kill Athenian democracy. And the disease of empire, the disease of nationalism … these of course are mirrored in the anarchic violence of these groups, but one that locks us in a kind of frightening death spiral. So while I certainly fear al-Qaida, I know its intentions. I know how it works. I spent months of my life reconstructing every step Mohamed Atta took. While I don’t in any way minimize their danger, I despair. I despair that we as a country, as Nietzsche understood, have become the monster that we are attempting to fight.

MORE

[coalition_unwilling]

2. If these were extemporaneous remarks, they are all the more

eloquent for being un-scripted.

Thanks for posting.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

3. a phrase he's probably thought on for quite a long time.

He is extraordinary

[Puregonzo1188]

4. Saw this earlier today. Good to see sane responses.

[Karmadillo]

5. The US is a monster?

Yep.

[cali]

21. yes, but that's not all it is.

accept paradox or die intellectually.

[Name removed]

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[slipslidingaway]

6. knr - snip ...

"...So I was in the Middle East in the days after 9/11. And we had garnered the empathy of not only most of the world, but the Muslim world who were appalled at what had been done in the name of their religion. And we had major religious figures like Sheikh Tantawi, the head of al-Azhar—who died recently—who after the attacks of 9/11 not only denounced them as a crime against humanity, which they were, but denounced Osama bin Laden as a fraud … someone who had no right to issue fatwas or religious edicts, no religious legitimacy, no religious training. And the tragedy was that if we had the courage to be vulnerable, if we had built on that empathy, we would be far safer and more secure today than we are.

We responded exactly as these terrorist organizations wanted us to respond. They wanted us to speak the language of violence. What were the explosions that hit the World Trade Center, huge explosions and death above a city skyline? It was straight out of Hollywood. When Robert McNamara in 1965 began the massive bombing campaign of North Vietnam, he did it because he said he wanted to “send a message” to the North Vietnamese—a message that left hundreds of thousands of civilians dead.

These groups learned to speak the language we taught them. And our response was to speak in kind. The language of violence, the language of occupation—the occupation of the Middle East, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan—has been the best recruiting tool al-Qaida has been handed. If it is correct that Osama bin Laden is dead, then it will spiral upwards with acts of suicidal vengeance. And I expect most probably on American soil. The tragedy of the Middle East is one where we proved incapable of communicating in any other language than the brute and brutal force of empire..."

[Kurovski]

7. This is what most all scholars of the M.E. said prior to the invasion of iraq...

"The expansion of military occupation that took place throughout, in particular the Arab world, following 9/11—and that this presence of American imperial bases, dotted, not just in Iraq and Afghanistan, but in Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Doha—is one that has done more to engender hatred and acts of terror than anything ever orchestrated by Osama bin Laden. "

[xchrom]

8. Recommend

[Jefferson23]

9. He doesn't say what he would prefer to have seen the U.S. do in this

case. He doesn't talk about the fact that the ME is changing despite bin Laden, I know he is well aware of it.

Could there be violent reactions...I think he is not alone in that prediction.

I am not sure that any action on the part of the military would have been perceived as legitimate. We're not honest
brokers in the ME, what was going to motivate a political solution?

No one who has paid attention to the fiasco since 9/11 would disagree with him here:

"These groups learned to speak the language we taught them. And our response was to speak in kind. The language of violence, the language of occupation—the occupation of the Middle East, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan—has been the best recruiting tool al-Qaida has been handed."


Yet, imo, bin Laden was the ONLY legitimate target, the rest was insane and we destroyed a great deal, we kill scores of innocent
people and the "decider's" will go unexamined in a court of law in the United States...if there is an end to our encroachment coming,
I haven't seen the signs telling me this country is heeding the warning.. If anything I see the U.S. becoming politically irrelevant, especially when you look at Egypt. We'll see if the Palestinians can declare a state without the U.S. helping Israel fuck them over..again.

We know bin Laden is dead, I will not pretend I am not happy about that reality. I accept my failings for it too.

Maybe I am just too weak after watching the last 10 years, but his death is the only sane thing I have seen since
9/11...and I do not mean that in the context of go, go, USA, USA! Not at all, not ever.

[Hissyspit]

12. Osama bin Laden's death was like a gang whack.

Not all that sane.

But I understand your larger point. (I really don't think "happy" is the issue at all, though.)

[Jefferson23]

33. Considering the reports out of the WH then and now, leaves a great

deal to be explained...indication of my lack of judgment, not yours.

I have since heard a couple of opinions that suggest he was targeted now to reset the
violence in the ME..too many striving for democracy makes imperialism a difficult endeavor to sustain.

I see the uprising for democracy in the ME will continue despite any backlash
of violence in the short term. I say this with hope, not certainty.


Obama/Osama rock the casbah
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/ME04Ak01.html

[EFerrari]

14. Maybe he is saying in part, the response to this situation

shouldn't be a matter of finding targets.

[Name removed]

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[Solly Mack]

11. K&R

[joshcryer]

13. I'd like to point out that "we" didn't do shit. GWB stole the presidency and inacted...

...his own corrupt policies. He used propaganda to manipulate and get reelected. Overall our foreign policy for the past decade has been corrupted by GWB.

[eridani]

19. Bravo! + a million or so. Whatchu mean "we" kemosabe?

Got a mouse in your pocket? Is "America" just the elite policy makers who profit from dominating natural resources and making the world safe for dollar a day labor? Or might the rest of us poor saps who just live here have some claim to the title?

The neocons and neolibs are not "America". The corporate ruling elite is not "America". The rest of us poor saps who just live here have a better claim on the designation "America," and we would likely not approve of all the elite shenanigans aimed at dominating the rest of the world and its resources, and making it safe for dollar a day labor. That is, if large numbers of us knew about stuff like that--but the general population doesn't.

There will always be those who identify with the sociopathic shitstains who visit daily disaster on the rest of the world, including the 98% of us "Americans" who aren't part of their club. Just leave the rest of us out of it, 'K?

[Name removed]

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[EstimatedProphet]

30. Yeah, there's no reason whatsoever to care about something like that

[Bonobo]

15. I guess he's just another liberal with a victim complex who deserves to be hated?

Goddamn liberals and their victim complexes!

[Ramulux]

16. Wish I could rec this 100 times

Chris Hedges understands this whole thing perfectly and says what I have been trying express so eloquently.

[joshcryer]

17. Irony, in Osama's 07 speech he said "we are as innocent as he is of 9/11".

Somehow Chris Hedges manages not to disagree.

[EFerrari]

18. He really does. n/t

[cali]

20. Lately, I've found Hedges pedantic

and shrill, but these comments are thoughtful and, I think, spot on.

[howard112211]

23. Just to let you know...

you finding this article "spot on" was what prompted me to click the link ;)

[dreamnightwind]

22. I like this part a lot:

"So I was in the Middle East in the days after 9/11. And we had garnered the empathy of not only most of the world, but the Muslim world who were appalled at what had been done in the name of their religion. And we had major religious figures like Sheikh Tantawi, the head of al-Azhar—who died recently—who after the attacks of 9/11 not only denounced them as a crime against humanity, which they were, but denounced Osama bin Laden as a fraud … someone who had no right to issue fatwas or religious edicts, no religious legitimacy, no religious training. And the tragedy was that if we had the courage to be vulnerable, if we had built on that empathy, we would be far safer and more secure today than we are. "

That is right on in so many ways.

[Wilms]

24. .

[Luminous Animal]

25. Kick.

[Name removed]

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[slipslidingaway]

31. kick nt

[pacalo]

32. I read this last night & found it very sobering.

It's past the allotted time to recommend but I give this a hearty "kick".