How did the discussion of the Ft. Hood case get so bassackwards in the MSM?

[Ken Burch]

Why are they acting like the military didn't try hard enough to get rid of Hasan, rather than asking why the military didn't just grant Hasan's request to be allowed to resign?

Why do none of them point out that Hasan actually offered to repay the costs of his military-subsudized education if only they'd let him leave?

Why are they acting like he was struggling to stay in and kill, rather than begging to be let out?

And why do none of them acknowledge that, if Hasan HAD been allowed to resign, the shootings wouldn't have happened?

How did this inversion-of-reality meme spread so thoroughly?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. Seems you've got some pretty specious assumptions yourself there, Cronkite.

[Bobbieo]

2. Because most of the people in news these days are not journalists.

They are people looking for a sensational story and are mostly opinion writers.

[Ken Burch]

3. So you buy the bogus "Hasan was a jihadi" thing?

n/t.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

4. No, I think he was fucking nuts.

You?

[Ken Burch]

5. He did have problems. The point is, he was begging to be allowed to resign

The Army and the war were the source of his rage. Had he been allowed to resign, Hasan would never have harmed anyone.

I also think the man should have a neuroligical examination. There could be a tumor in the area of his brain affecting impulse control. That's on the left side of the brain, which also controls the right side of the body. The fact that his right eye has always looked "off" in the photographs has also made me wonder about that.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. So you don't think he was nuts.

He was mad at the Army because they wouldn't let him go and that's why he did it. OK.

[Ken Burch]

12. I said he had issues. Serious ones.

Why is it so important to you that the specific phrase "He was nuts"(a phrase which is insulting to anyone with mental health issues, btw, and one you should never apply again to anyone)be the phrase I use?

What is it about that specific phrase that is so crucial to you?

The man was trying to get out of the Army and not be deployed. The Army was going to force him to deploy anyway. It's the ARMY's fault for not discharging him and turning him over to civilian mental health professionals.

Personally demonizing and denigrating the man serves no purpose.

[Ken Burch]

13. Again...what is your fixation with the phrase "he was nuts"?

And why are you acting like a prosecutor in a trial or Bill-O on the Factor in this exchange?

Your tone here serves no purpose.

[metalbot]

21. You can't have it both ways...

On the one hand you say that he would never have harmed anyone, and on the other you suggest that he might have a tumor and poor impulse control.

[cali]

30. evidence for your claims please.

And how do you know he hasn't had a neuro work up?

[Bobbieo]

7. He was crazy! You saw it - so did I why didn't the army see it?

[Ken Burch]

8. And why is the MSM pretending the guy was jihadi when he wasn't?

n/t.

[atreides1]

18. Why?

Because that's the description that gives them their ratings. And it's all about ratings and the truth be damned!

[WinkyDink]

28. Are all the facts in on this?

[burning rain]

32. It's abundantly clear that he was a religious extremist with intense faith-based animosities.

In committing his crime he acted on those animosities. If he was nuts, well, that goes hand-in-hand with intense religiosity--the two things do not exclude each other. Something worth looking into, though it could be difficult to ascertain, would be whether anyone intentionally failed to take action regarding religious-extremist red flags he sent up, for fear of appearing bigoted, which is an acute concern in the military, and having bias imputed to you can easily harm your career. It could be difficult to ascertain in this case, because pretty much by nature when someone doesn't act on a suspicion, he keeps his mouth shut about it. There's no avoiding the fact that religious freaks, most but not all of them Christian, have run amok in the US military, and the problem needs to be dealt with. We need to get away from this mindset that you can do whatever the hell you please, so long as you do it in the name of religion.

[Garam_Masala]

27. You don't think the guys who crashed into

twin towers were nuts? How about those who strap bombs and blow themselves up?

[sandnsea]

6. The military should identify potential risks

particularly ones coming from people who are counseling returning soldiers.

Regardless of motivation, ideology or religion.

That's the issue. That's why we keep failing to prevent new attacks. We don't know how to focus in this country.

And there is no guarantee this guy wouldn't have found a different target if released from the military. He should have been sent to a psychiatric unit.

[Ken Burch]

11. He could have been discharged and then immediately committed for psychiatric help

Hasan was always going to have a better chance of getting that in a civilian facility than with the Army.

[sandnsea]

15. Committed why?

For what? He made no threats.

The military can order people to do whatever they want. THEY could have ordered him to a pscyhiatric unit.

If he had been released from the military, the only thing that could have been done is to pick him up on a FISA deal and hold him.

[Ken Burch]

16. OK They could have sent him to a psych unit

Then discharged him when he had been stabilized(also after giving him a neuroligical exam to rule out the possibility of a brain tumor affecting impulse control, as I mentioned above).

In any case, promising him, while he was in treatment, that he would NOT be kept in the Army and would not have to fight in Iraq would have done wonders to ease the man's mental state and likely would have prevented the whole nightmare.

This happened because the Army was more fixated with "not losing its amendment" than with keeping its own personnel safe from unnecessary risk.

[sandnsea]

17. That's fine

That's exactly what should have happened.

You can't define someone else's behavioral problem based primarily on what upsets you. That's the same thing right wingers do when they only look at the religion. You have to wipe all of that out of the way, and look at the individual circumstances in order to see any problem clearly. And get a number of people around you to do the same.

[Ken Burch]

20. the scare quote in that last line should have read: "not losing its INVESTMENT"

I'm using my backup glasses.

[krispos42]

10. Because facts have a well-known liberal bias

And the MSM ain't liberal!

[Sinti]

14. They are a Corporate Propaganda Delivery System

There really is no "news" anymore. All networks are owned by a small number of corporations, and/or institutional stockholders.

It is not only a much more interesting story if anyone accused can be called a terrorist, it also makes money for their main business, which is of course the institutional mass murder we call war. Lying is only a tiny sin compared to what they really do.

War itself, generally, is only a side business to the primary business which is Resource Acquisition and Scarcity Creation that creates demand. Take, for example, the false scarcity tactic to get people to take the H1N1 vaccine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ly5DR_3D_mA

[Blue_Tires]

19. i'm still curious about the reason behind the first press conference

where a lot of the major facts given out had to be changed later that night....

[Imajika]

22. Did he formally request to be discharged?

I did a quick search and the articles I saw said he did not.

http://www.dailytribune.com/articles/2009/11/12/news/srv0000006805346.txt

http://www.wane.com/dpp/military/army/no_record_hasan_sought_army_discharge1258038825537

I dunno, I see where his Aunt claimed he did, but the articles I've found say he never officially requested a discharge.

Even if he was BEGGING for a discharge, why would that in any way excuse his shooting 40 or 50 people? He could have just gone AWOL and paid the consequences if caught couldn't he? I mean kill 50 people or just refuse to deploy? Hmmmm.

No, I think the bulk of the media has this story about right. He was a disturbed individual who become obsessed with a fringe element within his religion and ended up murdering people. I don't see a whole lot more to it. There are radical elements of all major religions, we have Christians, Hindus, etc who gravitate to the extremes and do horrible things too.

All in all, I don't have a major problem with most of the media coverage. Fox tries to conflate it into a greater conspiracy ofcourse, but that is kinda to be expected from that network since they will twist any story to try to hurt Obama or the Democratic Party.

[hayu_lol]

23. All too many posters are claiming that this officer,

a technical(medical)officer and not a LINE officer was attempting to avoid deployment. He would not have been in combat, would have continued the work he was doing at Walter Reed, and would never been in command of combat troops(except in their capacity as patients in whatever clinic he worked at).

So, then, what combat was he attempting to get out of? Battle of the Bedpans maybe?

As a shrink, his specialty would have been in short supply so no resignation would have been considered.

As to repaying his educational loans...we stopped allowing 'buyouts' shortly after the Spanish-American war. He had literally years of service in which to repay his loans and failed to do so until faced with a situation he didn't like.

[Imajika]

25. And I can't find any evidience he officially filed..

...to get out of the Army anyway. I see no stories that show he filed for objector status. He never went AWOL. Other than maybe telling his Aunt he wanted out, that seems to be where his attempts to solve this problem peacefully ended.

Looks to me like the OP completely misses the mark with this thread.

[timeforpeace]

26. No kidding. Talk about twisting the meme. He knows of what he speaks.

[ensho]

24. exactly

nt

[cali]

29. The army says that he did not ask to resign. regardless the man

should have been removed years ago. he was seriously mentally ill and mistreating patients.

[boppers]

31. How did the discussion of the mentally ill cases get so bassackwards in the MSM?

"Why are they acting like the military didn't try hard enough to get rid of them?"

Ask a vet.

[DU GrovelBot]

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