Unemployment rate drops to 8.6%, lowest since March 2009. 120,000 payrolls added in November.

[jefferson_dem]

:bounce:

Unemployment Slips to 8.6% as Private Sector Adds Jobs

WASHINGTON—The U.S. labor market strengthened in November as private employers continued to add jobs at a healthy pace, and the unemployment rate fell to its lowest level since March 2009.

Nonfarm payrolls rose by 120,000 last month, the U.S. Labor Department reported Friday in its monthly survey of employers. Private companies added 140,000 jobs, while the public sector—federal, state and local governments—lost 20,000 jobs.

The unemployment rate, obtained by a separate survey of U.S. households, fell to 8.6% in November from 9.0% the previous month. The rate hadn't been below 9% since March, when it was 8.8%. The rate is now lower than at any point since March 2009, when it was 8.6% as well.

In another positive development, October's figure for nonfarm payrolls was revised upward to show a gain of 100,000 from a previously reported 80,000, while September was revised up to a 210,000 gain from 158,000.

<SNIP>

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204012004577074002136930544.html

[flpoljunkie]

1. Terrific news!

[karynnj]

8. It really is - and the revisions should change the view of the third quarter

This also does show how essential the stimulus pieces Obama worked so hard to get from the Republicans were. In spite of their "best" efforts, the economy is slowly improving.

We are still far below the September 2008 number. I think there were something like 900 million jobs lost before Obama took office - and January and February were big losses too.

[totodeinhere]

20. No it's not. The lower rate was fueled by a drop in those looking for jobs.

The rate fell from the previous month's 9.0 percent, a move which in part reflected a drop in those looking for jobs. The participation rate dropped to 64 percent, from 64.2 percent in October, representing 315,000 fewer job-seekers.

How can it be good news that so many people gave up even looking for a job?

http://www.cnbc.com/id/45521793

[SmittynMo]

22. Exactly.......

People fell off the list, but are still looking for employment. They are not included in the current UE numbers. I personally have NOT been part of the unemployment numbers, even though I am unemployed and have been for months, and not collecting a UE check. I wonder how many people are in this exact situation? Realistically, the unemployment in this country is between 16-25 percent. I don't even know why they report bogus numbers. Or at least report it as UE numbers, collecting a check, not total unemployment.

[jschurchin]

2. I guess this explains why OWS is slowing down

Everybody had a job now, woohoo!!!

[Inuca]

5. Meaning.....???

Better does not mean perfect, does not even mean good, it just means it's an improvement.

[jschurchin]

7. Improvement?

Let's see. 44 million Americans on food stamps and climbing monthly. More and more fellow Americans giving up on finding a job, 315,000 last month alone. Where is your improvement?

[jefferson_dem]

9. Welcome aboard...

FauxNews is also desperate trying to find a negative spin angle at this very moment. It's hilarious to watch.

[jschurchin]

11. I'm a realist jeff.

It just amazes me how many of fellow Dem's are not. If this economy was truly improving, job creation would be in the 400,000 range, food stamp participation would be going down and our GDP would be increasing at a healthy rate of 3-4%. NONE of this is happening. But you go on ahead and cheerlead, somebody has to do it.

[mikekohr]

36. 400,000 per month? That drawfs even what Wild Bill accomplished. Here are the numbers: -graph-

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_mHSyEv8vBt4/S6Zvl-nui8I/AAAAAAAAACQ/3j0wUSj78mk/s640/Job+growth+graph.jpg?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_mHSyEv8vBt4/S6Z6xo0qSnI/AAAAAAAAACY/p8SkoEnN5dw/s640/job+creation+by+president.jpg?


Those on this board that refuse to accept the fact that deep economic downturns take time to recover from are tempting the return of the ass-wipes that cause these downturns, the Republicans. http://bureaucountydems.blogspot.com/p/history-of-recessions.html

The most accomplished president in our nation's history, FDR, took over 7 years to return unemployment to pre-depression levels. If we want to avoid the long, painful climb back from economic FUBAR we must stop electing the assholes causing them in the first place.

President Obama may not be be FDR, but if FDR were alive today he would be supporting the President. And I suspect he would be upset enough with some of the unrealistic criticism of this president to get up out of his wheelchair and put his foot up the ass of the president,s critics, especially those on the right. But I suspect he would also have a harsh word or two for those critics on the Left.

[Skittles]

48. don't even bother arguing with them, jschurchin

they are in DESPERATE need of intervention - as deluded as any Fox News fan

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

12. You're right. But still good news. I just spoke to some of my economist friends at Labor.

Here's what they have said:

Part of the reason for the decline is that 315,000 people left the labor force so they are no longer counted as part of the survey. These are so called discouraged workers who have given up on trying to find a job. This lowers the overall labor force or the denominator which can affect the headline number. They may come back to the labor force as jobs pick up which is how you can have something like 250,000 jobs created yet the unemploynet rate goes up which seems counter intuitive.

The U-6 number is the combined unemployed plus underemployed which was 16.2% dropeed to 15.6% last month so that is good news.

The unemployment number is a seasonally adjusted number which takes hiring for the holiday season into the calculation.

----

So, this is STILL an improvement. Is it a dramatic improvement? No, but stop being such a downer. It's going to take some time.

As my economist friends have said, unfortunately, the Jobs Indicator is the last economic indicator to turn around during a recession.

Also, another problem is that the ReThug governors are deliberately laying off public workers in the states. They need to be targeted.

[mikekohr]

37. Here are graphs on PUBLIC sector job loss versus POSITIVE private sector job growth

?

?


States and localities have eliminated 671,000 jobs since employment peaked in August 2008" "Public" sector job creation remains the biggest drag on the overall employment issue.

President Obama Is Repeating The 80 Year Record Of Democratic Success In Job Creation


see also: http://bureaucountydems.blogspot.com/p/job-growth.html


OBAMA and 25 in '12

[safeinOhio]

3. A second term, while

the clown car goes off the cliff.

:toast:

[AtomicKitten]

23. I'll drink to that.

:toast:

[Inuca]

4. Compared to 124K forecast

according to @Neil_Irwin, economic reporter for the WP. He also says "Revisions add 72k jobs over previous two months." Good news.

[jefferson_dem]

6. Also, September job gains revised upward to +210K.

It's not a home run, but perhaps the best jobs report since Great Recession began.

http://twitter.com/#!/fivethirtyeight/statuses/142599093175328768

[JoePhilly]

10. Fox news has been placed on a suicide watch!!!

[jeff47]

13. Unfortunately, a lot of that was driven by the labor force participation rate dropping

Meaning a lot of people simply gave up on finding work, which makes them no longer "unemployed".

Still need more stimulus.

[MjolnirTime]

17. That's what the Negative Nancys say every time the figure improves

You can't use that excuse forever.

[totodeinhere]

21. It's not an excuse. It's a statistic. n/t

[Cali_Democrat]

25. Over 300,000 people left the labor force according to the recent report

[totodeinhere]

26. Shame on you you Negative Nancy.

:sarcasm:

[Cali_Democrat]

27. For some people, stating simple facts like that is a big no-no

It's really getting absurd.

[joshcryer]

45. 1.4 million+ boomers got SS. Your point is?

[Beacool]

39. Negative Nancys?????????

How about pragmatists. I don't think that there's anyone in the country not hoping that the economy is finally improving and that people are finding jobs, but that's not exactly the reality. Yes, there are people being hired at a larger pace than in the last 2 years, but not enough to make a significant difference in the amount os people who are still without full time jobs. BTW, 50,000 of these jobs are in retail. We'll see how many remain after the holiday season.

:-(

[nmbluesky]

14. I can't wait to hear from GOP Presidential

Newt, Cain, and Romney

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

15. A net loss of 5,000 jobs.

:bounce:

[MjolnirTime]

18. Good news for Obama = Bad news for Rummy

[Tarheel_Dem]

24. +1

:fistbump:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

33. 5,000 more people entered the labor pool than found jobs. That's a fact.

I didn't mention Obama in my post. :shrug:


Note: I've seen a range of between 125K-150K as the number required to mitigate the net entry of new workers into the labor pool. So it actually could be as many as 30,000 lost jobs. If I was simply out to tear down Obama why didn't I use the higher number? Because it has nothing to do with Obama, it has to do with reality. If you took off your rose-colored glasses you might see more of it.

[WI_DEM]

16. the tragedy is that the unemployment rate would be so much better if states weren't cutting public

jobs. The private jobs report is gaining speed, but cuts in public employees is still taking a toll. It's short-sighted. The more people who work the more they pay into taxes.

[Johnny2X2X]

19. Good News

Does this mean that the economy is good? No. Does this mean that the economy is improving? Yes.

Despite the Republican's best effort Obama may have done just enough to get this economy going again. Here's an interesting number, the unemployment rate was 8.5% in November of 1983, 1 year before Reagan won a landslide.

A few months ago I was speaking with a friend who works for the local GOP, nice guy, he said if unemployment is below 8% near the election there is zero chance of Obama losing. He said 8.5% was what the Republicans were seeing as a benchmark to make Obama vulnerable, anything below that and Obama will be tough to beat, and like he said, anything below 8% and the Republican candidate might as well save some time and money and stay home.

It's not a robust recovery, but it will pick up strength in the coming months, but does anyone want to see the return of the boom and bust economies we've had for 30 years? Obama campaigned on implementing policies that would help avoid boom and bust.

[jeff47]

28. No, it means a headline statistic changed.

Unemployment rate is down. But there's more than one way to no longer being "unemployed" as far as the statistics go.

The obvious way, and the way people assume, is finding a job. But the number of jobs in this report isn't large enough to account for the drop in the unemployment rate.

Another way is to leave the labor force. Give up on ever finding a job, retire, go back to school, become a stay-at-home parent, and so on. Labor force participation is also down.

So the report isn't bad, but it also isn't good.

[Number23]

29. Smart people realize that improvement of ANY sort in this area is a good thing

Hopefully even better numbers are on the horizon soon. Rec'd.

Edi: Here's other articles on this that don't require a subscription - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/jobless-dip-boosts-recovery-hopes-6271523.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/markets/unemployment-rate-falls-to-86-percent-lowest-in-2-years-with-good-signs-for-small-business/2011/12/02/gIQA7clqLO_story.html?tid=pm_pop

[Digit]

30. I am unimployed and all I am seeing out there is

Contract jobs and part-time jobs.
I don't expect to make what I was making at my last job and to think I would make what I was making in 2008 is impossible.

But to make less than I did in the mid 80's with no prospect of benefits is absurd and I am 60 yrs old.

I don't believe this BS that things are getting better for one second since I AM in the job market and have been for almost a year.

[fasttense]

31. There are many reasons why the unemployment crisis is worse than what the statistics show.

And this is one of them:

"The not-unemployed unemployed: Yes, there is a point at which the BLS stops considering an unemployed person unemployed. That point is reached when an unemployed person has not look for a job in the previous 12 months. When asked, the BLS replied, “The 3.9 million individuals not in the labor force that you are referring to responded that they wanted a job, but had not looked for a job in the last 12 months. They are not considered unemployed because they had not actively searched for work in the four weeks preceding the survey.” I recall no mention of these 3.9 million from any mass media outlet.

This 3.9 million are the most discouraged of discouraged workers, but if the jobs market was improving, these millions would start to become part of the unemployed once more. If these 3.9 million were added to the “real” unemployment rate (U6) the rate would increase from 16.2 percent to 19 percent. Nearly one in five American workers is either unemployed or underemployed. Why isn’t that disturbing fact in the media spotlight every day?"

http://www.alternet.org/economy/152401/11_reasons_why_the_unemployment_crisis_is_even_worse_than_you_think?page=entire

The unemployment numbers, even the oft touted U6, are manipulated beyond recognition. What they report and what is really happening to the unemployed are 2 different things.

[DCBob]

32. Its the downward trend that has people feeling more optimistic...

If it was going the other way I would agree with you.

[JoePhilly]

34. Have you noticed that no matter what happens to the UE rate, its bad news?

I mean, the UE rate falls from 9% to 8.6% ... that's not good news, its actually bad news.

And when it stays flat ... that is also bad news.

And then when it ticks up (like say it went from 9% to 9.1% ... that is bad news ... screams of "double dip" come from all corners.

Ironically, this morning, as I was reading some of the threads on the drop to 8.6% ... reading all the posts claiming it was really bad news ... CNN was covering some Mitt Romney event ... and what was Mittens doing ... he was talking about how the drop to 8.6% isn't good news.

Which surprised me ... I had no idea he read DU!

:rofl:

[EffieBlack]

35. Funny, isn't it?

I love that the drop in the unemployment rate is explained away by pointing out that some people aren't being counted because they've dropped out of the job market, which is supposedly a really bad sign. Yet when the number goes up because more people have come back into the job market, that fact is never mentioned as a good indicator.

As you say, regardless where the number is - up, down or neutral - it's treated as a negative reflection on the President.

[Number23]

42. Egg-zactly!

I love that the drop in the unemployment rate is explained away by pointing out that some people aren't being counted because they've dropped out of the job market, which is supposedly a really bad sign. Yet when the number goes up because more people have come back into the job market, that fact is never mentioned as a good indicator.

After seeing some of the typically negative posts stupidly downplaying this bit of good news, I posted two articles (one American, one British) that specifically say that MORE PEOPLE GOT JOBS. Not that "more people stopped looking for jobs," but that MORE PEOPLE WERE PUT BACK TO WORK.

It's my very small part in trying to minimize the unending, unyielding deluge of negativity and ignorance that this site is absolutely drowning under lately.

[great white snark]

43. "It's my very small part..."

Do not sell yourself short Number23, I can't even imagine what this place would be like without your input.

:thumbsup:

[Number23]

49. What a lovely, kind thing to say

And believe me, the feeling is most definitely mutual.

:toast:

[BklnDem75]

40. I'm $20 richer

I bet my coworker people would find a way to spin this as a negative. People don't realize when they try too hard to make everything negative, people stop taking them seriously. Freepers are actually using the same spin.

[DCBob]

44. If it went down to 5% Im sure there will still be something wrong.. like the jobs arent good enough.

Its tiresome.

[totodeinhere]

47. Self delete

[Beacool]

38. It's a mixed bag.

Jobs Report: 'Underneath the Hood, It's Still Sluggish Growth'

November's jobs report, as expected, showed a slight pickup in hiring, but the surprising positive —a lower unemployment rate—could be masking a troubling trend.

Job creation in November totaled 120,000, with 140,000 coming from the private sector, slightly lower than expected. But the big surprise was the four-tenths of a point decline in the unemployment rate to a 2-1/2 year low of 8.6 percent.

"The market focuses on headlines, and if you include the prior two months being revised up, and you think about the three months together, there was more employment than expected," said Peter Boockvar, market strategist at Miller Tabak.

But "underneath the hood, it's still sluggish job growth," he added. "We're only averaging 132,000 jobs this year and seeing the biggest drop in the labor force since January, and the participation rate at near record lows."

http://www.cnbc.com/id/45522961

The trend is positive, but the drop in unemployment rate to 8.6% is disingenuous since it's mostly due to the 315,000 people who dropped out of the workforce.

[BklnDem75]

41. Excellent news despite the spin throughout the thread

Hope this trend continues.

[DCBob]

46. Yes this is good news but just when things appear to be heading in the right direction..

Europe's economic train wreck looms on the horizon. I think we can weather the storm but no doubt it will have a negative impact.. and no doubt the Rethugs will find some way to blame Obama for it.