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Request advice re.: Alex Jones/Ron Paul and duped citizens.

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chknltl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 12:38 AM
Original message
Request advice re.: Alex Jones/Ron Paul and duped citizens.
Request advice re.: Alex Jones/Ron Paul and duped citizens.
I hope that title summarized my request well enough, now for the meat-n-potatoes....

My step daughter and her boyfriend are by no stretch of the imagination conservatives. They both voted for and supported President Obama early on. Now they are both telling me wild things about President Obama. When asked, I learn that they get their 'facts' about President Obama from Alex Jones. For a while I dismissed this, thinking that they were both smart enough to eventually figure out Mr. Jones. Now I find they have embraced his propaganda to the point that they feel Ron Paul to be the best candidate for the upcoming election.

My argument against Ron Paul* have not garnered any decent counter-arguments from either of them but they still seem inclined to believe in Alex Jones. This leads me to believe that they still lean to Ron Paul as well. After listening in to a few episodes of Alex Jones in my step-kid's car, I can now see how he could sway many folks with his brand of kool-aid. This is alarming to me. At this point, I am not sure if either my step-daughter or her boyfriend can be persuaded to vote for President Obama ever again. Furthermore, I am now wondering if Alex Jones is trying to siphon off Dems from the next Presidential election.

For a couple of hours I am alone at my step-kid's home with access to their computer. I have no online access at my own home so for the next hour or so I'll be here reading what my fellow DUers have to say on this topic. Am I mistaken in thinking that Alex Jones is deliberately trying to dupe our fellow citizens away from President Obama? What advice would you give to my step daughter, her boyfriend or anyone else for that matter to convince them to stop listening to Alex Jones?

Thank you DU,
c


*(My argument against Ron Paul and for President Obama: President Obama has appointed a moderate to the Supreme Court. No matter what else you may have been told by folks like Alex Jones, this bit of history is indisputable. Another appointment, is likely to happen after 2012. Keeping in mind Chief Justice Roberts and his deliberate attack on our democracy with Citizens-United, of all the folks likely running for POTUS, who would you like to see make that next appointment?)





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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 12:43 AM
Response to Original message
1. Ron Paul is a crazy racist. That should be more than enough reason to avoid his ass.
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chknltl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. I didn't know this about him...
...I don't know much at all about Ron Paul. I have always considered him to be out on the fringe because he hates social programs but I know little else about him. Now I see him as a racist nut-case! Truth be told, I am not so much interested in turning folks away from ron paul, (there is no way the gop-ers are gonna let him get the nomination), but more about this Alex Jones loon turning folks away from President Obama in the next election. What I am seeking here is more of a 'de-propaganda program'. Somehow, through his brand of propaganda he has captured the imagination of my daughter and her boyfreind...what I fear is they will have been so poisoned that they will sit out the next election! I am left to wonder at how many others are out there getting brainwashed and how best we can reclaim their valuable votes in the next election.

That was an interesting read at that link MADem...the comments were especially interesting...if I had more time I could have spent hours there. Thanks for that.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Glad I could help.
Hope you get the particulars you seek about that Jones loon. I don't know much if anything about that one.
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roody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
2. They need to expand their sources of information.
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chknltl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Agreed.
I listen to A.M 1090, Seattle's Progressive radio station. My daughter used to be a fan but now not so much. She used to like Rachel Maddow and Kieth Olbermann, bringing up their shows online as background in their home. She does not own a TV, a "waste of time", "the corporate devil-tube", in her own words. She and her boyfriend spend a lot of time on the road and sadly, alex jones has replaced Rachel and Kieth and even the Daily Show for them.

For now, I will have to be the 'expansion of their source of information'. Much of what I learn from my fellow DUers on this topic will be put to good use, hopefully it will be put to good use by others here who may be noticing a similar phenomenon among folks and friends they know.

thanks
c

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Dokkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 12:53 AM
Response to Original message
3. Please please
show your step daughter this video of Alex Jones. If she has any honest bone left in her body, she would also reject Alex Jones and then Ron Paul after viewing it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TACalwg360c
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chknltl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. Thanks, I will.
I did not spend much time at the link, not because I was uninterested but instead because I could not figure out how to turn the sound 'on' on this blasted computer! It's true, chknltl is fairly tech illiterate. That said, Carli will see the video on her screen when she gets home and I'll leave a note for her to take a listen. She's pretty good at checkin stuff out that I recommend to her.

It truly pains me that someone I've come to know to be as smart as her and her boyfriend are, that they could have fallen for alex jones. For instance, they both have been conned into believing, (by jones), that Osama bin Laden was killed or died looong before any Seal Team got to him! They both think that his death was staged! That particular bunch of baloney was my first exposure to alex jones! (He WAS fairly convincing if that was all one ever listened to.) I've yet to convince either of them otherwise.

c
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napoleon_in_rags Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 01:42 AM
Response to Original message
7. I like Alex Jones and Ron Paul, and here's my long rant about it.
Edited on Thu Sep-22-11 01:43 AM by napoleon_in_rags
First, here is what the left should esteem most: Science. Simple statement.

Now, when I listen to Alex Jones, I hear somebody who plays fast and loose with the facts. He doesn't wait for rigorous truth so he supports things that are sometimes wrong, but then he also paints in broad strokes truths which are basically accurate but CANNOT be reported in main stream media for the same reasons: they can't be rigorously confirmed.

So, what you see is somebody who is outside of the mainstream, yes, a bit to the right. But put your science first: forget the ARMY of people, the 99% of the population saying the sun revolves around the earth, (the mainstream) look through your telescope and see for yourself, do your math. You'll see that the vast majority are in the dark, as they have been throughout history on important issues. What they are in the dark on is the fact that the status quo is DOOMED. Its SCREWED. We are in SERIOUS SHIT. I mean, you should be able to see this on almost any issue... Debt...technological asymmetries leading to totalitarianism. Do you believe in man made global warming? Then look at the status quo with regards to fossil fuel consumption, look at the lack of a sane strategy to get things on track with sustainable consumption! Chomsky, a dead sane scientist, says he sees the extinction of man as a real possibility on the table due to numerous factors going on now. Can you honestly say you see a sane plan here???

Once you have seen the mathematically, scientifically verifiable INSANITY of the status quo, the next question is if you are going to grow up and stop pointing at what psychopaths have defined as the "high school losers", the "fringe" candidates (like Kucinich or Ron Paul) as such and recognize that people outside of the status quo are what we need. People who are willing to condemn it, to tear it down...And this means accepting that all your milquetoast political reasoning is reasoning is leading us exactly nowhere, its a perpetual jack off session that keeps the same elite in power year after year, getting richer in relation to the poor, taking everything from you while you run in the popularity contest hamster wheel the media has defined for you.

Honest to God, I am so fucking sick of "moderates" in all their forms. The right says: Limit government, let the rich be wealthy in keeping what they earned so they can be rich". The left says: "Let government distribute some of that wealth to the poor and needy through a tax". That's when the fucking 'moderates' in high places come in, and say "we have a compromise, we will take the tax idea from the left, and we will distribute that tax to wealthy so they can be rich, like the ideals of the right". That's the status quo, neither right nor left but screwing for all. The so called sensible moderates of the left say the compromise is as good a deal as they could get, the 50% of the country on the right is to blame, and the dumbass right say the inverse about the left, that they are to blame for the high taxes. Of course the punchline is that they are all getting raped, but they refuse to stand up for their principles enough to let it go one way or the other, or better yet the ideal compromise, where we somehow find away to cut taxes but provide for the poor.

So here's the deal. I like Ron Paul. Every time I see an attempt to humiliate him by selecting a question that will result in an impolitic answer according to his principles asked on the news, my esteem for him increases when he answers it according to his principles, as well as my REVULSION as the candidates that tell morons what they want to hear with absolutely no principles, because I know this is the system of control. The pundits are used to it, even though I know the populous will lap it up and fall deeper and deeper in this nightmare.

I am not a Libertarian, I am not a right winger, I am a socialist. Not the Strauss-Kahn kind that has billions, but the kind that has given his life to serving the poor, the elderly, the disabled knowing full well he could be making vastly more in the corporate scene by pursuing his own interests. But folks, what you have to understand is that the scene has changed, the right-left dynamic is being used as a system of control. The good guys are the ones willing to stand up for their principles right or left, and not be embarrassed or controlled by what "everybody thinks", Its about personal integrity, its about honesty. And its, above all, NOT about compromise. Remember who we are left:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMaCg4fpJKg

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chknltl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 03:26 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. You put a lot in here...
...and hopefully I get what you are saying. I think I agree with some and disagree with some of it, (and possibly I've misunderstood much too)

"First, here is what the left should esteem most: Science. Simple statement."
I can go with the importance of science, not sure I'd make it paramount though. Democracy would come first for me, a government "..of, by and for the people", to be more precise. For some reason my mind reflects back on early episodes of Star Trek, where the theme had Kirk and co removing the guiding/guardian computer, (science) from the society so they could make the decisions for themselves. Kirk usually let folks know that fending for themselves would be difficult but ultimately they would make the better decisions.

Am I throwing science under the bus here? That is not my intention and I hope you don't think that I am dismissing your assertion. Science, and equally history, in my view, must be used as tools by an informed electorate to make decisions on how we will move forward as a society. Democracy OTOH is the vehicle that nature provides us with to travel there. Without that democracy, I feel we defy nature and ultimately we do so at risk of losing this planet. (If I've lost you on the nature/democracy item sorry, Thom Hartmann has convinced me that democracy is indeed a natural thing found in many many other species other than humans and is arguably a very good survival strategy!)Much of your argument appears to be based on the loss of our democracy I think and in that you and I share deep concern.

As to ron paul, my first exposure to him was on an early episode of the Colbert Report. He seemed a kindly old gentleman, looked and sounded like the kind of guy I could safely bring home to a family Thanksgiving Dinner but then he started talking about removing our social safety nets. Social Security? 'Get rid of it!' Medicare? 'Get rid of it too!' The I.R.S.? 'Gone....' I think Mr. Colbert even snarkily asked ron paul if he would get rid of the Girl Scouts and he thought about it and if memory serves he responded with 'Yep, get rid of it too!' That particular first impression of Mr. paul for me was not a good one. If I could add a bit of selfishness here: I am a Viet Nam Era vet. I happen to like-no make that I happen to NEED the VA as my primary health care provider! I worry how a President ron paul would handle my health care!

Dr. ron paul further lost my respect after I visited that link earlier in this OP that illuminated his likely being racist. I suspect I may have offended you by not capitalizing the R or the P in ron paul....but if he is indeed a racist, well... that has earned my disrespect.

OK... kids just got back home...time to sign off... sorry napoleon_in_rags, I truly wish I could have delved further in this with you but I won't be able to. I suspect we may have much in common and could learn much from each other...perhaps someday soon I'll have the chance again.

c

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Politicalboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 02:41 AM
Response to Original message
9. Are they gonna write his name in
Cause I don't see Paul as being on the ballot come Nov 2012. Or tell them Paul is for every man for himself no matter how sick you get. It's freedom according to him. If those kids haven't had any kids, with Paul at the helm, it will cost a fortune to have a child. And that's if everything goes right. Maybe they know a good mid-wife to deliver their baby.
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 04:47 AM
Response to Original message
11. One of my favorite DUers, SemiCharmedQuark
(who has long since ceased to grace this place with her presence for reasons that are obvious) hates Alex Jones.

Personally I've never heard of him. So thanks for this thread. It's been educational.
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canoeist52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 05:58 AM
Response to Original message
12. Ron Paul - right about foreign and monetary policy, but wrong
about social issues. Alex Jones has a grating affect but just listen and read for the issues.
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RichGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-22-11 06:32 AM
Response to Original message
13. I think Ron Paul is no so much evil as he is...just plain wrong.
Alex Jones is a different matter. He's a crazy loon run amok!!! The problem with him and others like him is that they always present their opinions as if they are facts. And...their ignorant followers believe them no matter how often they are wrong.

I remember the last time Obama and his family went to out of country trip...Alex Jones ranted on and on and on how our country was going to completely collapse and the Obama's left to save themselves....leaving us here to fend for ourselves. Of course...nothing even remotely out of the ordinary happened here and the Obamas came back. So, doesn't matter that he had people in an uproar because they next time he sounds the alarm they'll believe him again.

Not to disparage your your daughter, I have family member who have gone into the dark side as well. It seems they are people who don't want to figure things out themselves and would rather just be told what to think. I would encourage her and boyfriend to not be a follower of anyone...listen to all, do your own research and question everything that seems off no matter who says it. I know from experience that if you ask them about some crazy thing and say "how do you know that"? it's never based on something solid they have discovered through their own research or reading...it's cause Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh, etc...said so.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-23-11 01:58 AM
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-23-11 01:52 AM
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freshstart Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-11 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
16. Maybe this will help?
Edited on Tue Sep-27-11 08:14 AM by freshstart
I have a friend who also bought into the Alex Jones/Ron Paul propaganda line. If you need more, I can dig up some more articles that I used to do what you are trying to do.

I know that Alex Jones talks about a "shadow government" but would never mention this:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=bgFaAAAAIBAJ&sjid=ukoNAAAAIBAJ&pg=6913,1208676&dq=ron+paul+shadow+government&hl=en

Obviously Ron Paul had some ties somewhere to be part of this. He won a special election, was in office for a short period of time and then lost the next election.

If Mr. Constitution believes so much in our form of government, why was he part of an unelected shadow cabinet? Parliamentary systems do not allow the people to pick their chief executive.

There is a video about education/charter schools where Jones lies and contradicts himself, I'll try to find that and post it later. The best way to undermine what Jones is trying to do is to prove that everything he says is not true. The way these types hook people is they show them things that are or may be true, then listeners wrongly assume that everything they say is true...and that is not the case.
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