James Carville’s Flawed Advice for Obama

[ProSense]

James Carville’s Flawed Advice for Obama

By MATT BAI

He has probably been quoted more than any pundit on the planet since 1992 (which, by the way, was the last time he actually won an American campaign), but when James Carville opens his mouth, Democrats still tend to listen. And so it got a lot of people talking this week when Mr. Carville, in an open letter for President Obama on CNN’s Web site, urged the struggling president to follow the example of some of his predecessors and just fire a bunch of people.

“For God’s sake, why are we still looking at the same political and economic advisers that got us into this mess?” Mr. Carville asked. “It’s not working. Furthermore, it’s not going to work with the same team, the same strategy and the same excuses.”

The remarks resonated in part because some Democrats on Capitol Hill and even at the White House appear now to be circling ominously around Bill Daley, Mr. Obama’s chief of staff. When Politico asked Mr. Carville if he was talking specifically about Mr. Daley, Mr. Carville replied: “I recuse myself. Bill’s an old friend.” (Useful tip for Mr. Carville’s old friends: if you’re ever facing jail time and are in need of an enthusiastic character witness, Mr. Carville might not be the first call you want to make.)

Historians and management consultants can debate the merits of firing senior aides generally. As Mr. Carville alluded, it seemed to work for Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton at precarious moments in their campaigns and presidencies. It worked less well for Jimmy Carter, who demanded the resignation of his entire cabinet just days after his so-called malaise speech, perhaps in the hope that he could make everyone forget it.

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Well, he did have Scooter Libby's back.

Carville's advice is also moronic, telling the President to fire members of his adminstration ("I know Attorney General Eric Holder is a close friend of yours, but if his explanations aren't good, fire him too") in a climate where the GOP is obstructing his nominees.

Carville recuses himself when asked about firing his friend Bill Daley, but has no problem suggesting that the President fire his other friend Eric Holder?

The President doesn't need advice about how to call out Republicans from a person who repeatedly sides with them.

Obama calls out GOP hypocrisy for going to ‘ribbon cuttings for the same projects that you voted against.’

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Obama smacks Teahobbits using McCain's 2008 campaign slogan

Carville crawled out from under his rock because he's an opportunist, trying to capitalize on NY 9.

Think about it, his suggestion that the President "make a case like a Democrat" (which Carville rarely sound like) comes after the President's speeech and after nearly a week of the President taking his case to the American people with some crowd-rousing speeches.

[Cali_Democrat]

1. Must. Attack. Carville.

Everything Obama is doing is just fine and dandy. Recent approval ratings and election results are to be ignored. Obama is on the right path.

Carville is just a PUMA and a hater.

[joeybee12]

2. He never loved him...nt

[Sheepshank]

5. I wonder what Carville's advice to Obma would be regarding this program

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=774081&mesg_id=774081

because you know, EVERYTHING must be fine and dandy all the time to have Obama be of any use to the USA. Anything less than EVERYTHING is a fucking fail....right?

[dennis4868]

6. No, it's not all fine and dandy!

Obama's team SUCKS at messaging their point of view on anything...repubs and the media control it...they reallt need to improve there. They are good everywhere else (based on facts).

[ProSense]

9. So

should Obama fire Daley or do you "recuse" yourself.

"Everything Obama is doing is just fine and dandy. Recent approval ratings and election results are to be ignored. Obama is on the right path. "

Do you approve of the President's approach to selling his job's package?

"Carville is just a PUMA and a hater."

Nice try, but his advice is still moronic and opportunistic.

[Armstead]

62. Yes he should fire Daly...Should have never hired him

[truebrit71]

39. ROFL!!!

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Hey I think Carville is as loonie as all get out, but on this one he's 100% right.

[TheBigotBasher]

64. A PUMA a hater and a LOSER

just to add.

[JoePhilly]

3. Its nice that Mary let little Jimmy out to play.v

[Scurrilous]

4. Maybe James Carville should resign.

How long has he been at CNN? Seems like forever. Time for him to resign and let them bring in fresh morons...err pundits.

[On the Road]

7. Why Exactly is This Bad Advice?

DU has been all over many of Obama's appointments with some justification. The resulting policy, public opinion, and approach to congress certainly leave something to be desired.

Am not an Obama basher by any means. But his presidency might do better if the cabinet had a different composition.

[ProSense]

10. Why

"Why Exactly is This Bad Advice?"

...exactly is suggesting Obama fire members of his administration and staff at this point bad advice?

Reread the OP.

[On the Road]

15. I Read it the First Time -- What's the Point?

The sentence on Daley is highlighted, but recommending "a bunch of people" be fired clearly goes beyond Daley.

[ProSense]

19. Well

"I Read it the First Time -- What's the Point?

The sentence on Daley is highlighted, but recommending "a bunch of people" be fired clearly goes beyond Daley."

...you didn't read it closely enough if you missed the point. So let me reiterate, form the OP:

Carville's advice is also moronic, telling the President to fire members of his adminstration ("I know Attorney General Eric Holder is a close friend of yours, but if his explanations aren't good, fire him too") in a climate where the GOP is obstructing his nominees.

Carville recuses himself when asked about firing his friend Bill Daley, but has no problem suggesting that the President fire his other friend Eric Holder?

[On the Road]

28. I Don't Know Carville's Relationship with Either Man

I don't necessarily agree or disagree with either appointment or possible firing, but suggesting widespread changes would seem to be perfectly reasonable advice.

Should Obama hold onto people just because he's afraid their replacements won't get approved? Should be relinquish that kind of power to the GOP?

[ProSense]

29. Well,

"I Don't Know Carville's Relationship with Either Man"

...he referred to both men as "friend"?

"Should Obama hold onto people just because he's afraid their replacements won't get approved? Should be relinquish that kind of power to the GOP? "

So you think the administration should fire people and leave the agencies without a permanent head?

Why should anyone be concerned that Republicans are blocking confirmation of the CFPB head?

[On the Road]

37. I Think There are Signs That Obama's Cabinet and Other Advisors

have not served him very in the policy arena. Not being there, I don't know whose fault that is (if anyone's). Carville took pains not to point fingers at individuals, either. All I'm saying is that Carville's suggestion is eminently reasonable.

Turnover in the cabinet has been routine for as long as I'm familiar with. My impression is that Obama's cabinet actually has greater stability than most previous presidents and could probably use a shakeup.

It is also routine to suggest replacing cabinet members and other advisors when things are not going swimmingly. I have never heard a suggestion that some housecleaning is in order criticized on the basis that the other party might not allow their replacements to be confirmed. It just seems bizarre. Who knows -- some of the deputies who would serve as "Acting" might be an improvement.

I can't help but think that this is driven by a dislike for Carville, who has, for all his faults, written some of the most spirited defenses of the Democratic party I have ever read, such as "We're Right. They're Wrong." It may be because he comes from a conservative area and understands that point of view that he is able to argue so effectively against Republicans.

[emilyg]

11. +10

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jaxx]

8. K&R The paid CNN shill Carville is just another has been.

[MannyGoldstein]

12. I agree ProSense, Obama should keep doing just what he's doing

America is thriving and victory is in the air.

[ProSense]

14. He

"I agree ProSense, Obama should keep doing just what he's doing"

...should keep doing just what he's currently doing.

Howard Dean: 'Brilliant' move of Obama jobs bill

Obama Takes Jobs Plan to Ohio (Damn, he was on fire!)

Wonder what Carville's opinion is on that?

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[truebrit71]

41. LOL!!!

Nice one!

[theoldman]

13. Obama's problem is not the advice he is getting.

Obama's problem is that he is not taking the advice. He still thinks he can work with the Republicans and meet them half way. I noticed that when Brian Williams was interviewing him and laid out the facts, he did not appear to change his mind on any issues.

[dennis4868]

17. So I will put you in the column...

of not understanding how congress work...you see when one party controls the house and has fillubusting power in the senate and the other party has the WH, the guy in the WH, if he want to get ANYTHING DONE, needs to work with that other party...you see a president is not a king, he cannot make laws all by himself. The end! :-)

[Bluenorthwest]

25. There is that winning charm...NYC just cost us two seats

If you are so adept at politics, you should have been out saving the 9th. The end.

[dennis4868]

46. 2 seats...

thought we lost one seat in NYC...we won a long held seat in upstate NY months ago :-)

And if you know anything about NY09, the makeup of that district is DRASTICALLY different than any other district in the country...over 1/3 orthodox jews that were told by Rabbis that it was against Jewish law to vote for the dem becausde the dem candidate voted for gay marriage.

[Mr Deltoid]

30. Sometimes doing nothing is the right thing to do

Like with the Bush tax cuts, he could have simply done nothing, let them expire, and we would be on our way to balancing the budget. No congress necessary.

[dennis4868]

47. true....

but if he did nothing then:

1. no unemployment insurance for millions who badly needed it at the time (holiday time)
2. NO repeal of DADT
3. No START Treaty
4. No middle class tax cuts

What worried Obama the most was the UI...and doing nothing would have been deadly, literally deadly for millions of people. Thank you Mr. Obama for being the only adult in the room

[Mr Deltoid]

58. Not worth it

None of that was worth prolonging the depression for two additional years for 350 million people. Obama is the worst negotiator in history.

[golfguru]

16. Carville knows his politics, Obama should follow his advice

The recent elections, the unfavorable poll numbers etc. are all screaming to Obama to change the staff. They are misguiding him as the results show.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/44/post/carville-to-obama-fire-your-staff/2011/09/15/gIQATwOdVK_blog.html

[ProSense]

18. Well

"Carville knows his politics, Obama should follow his advice"

...he didn't know his politics well enough in 2008 or when he called for Obama to lift the drilling moratorium.

From your link: "James Carville to Obama: Fire your staff"

...except, as the OP points out, Bill Daley, a friend!

[golfguru]

21. Bill Daley is one of the few I like n/m

[frazzled]

20. He doesn't seem to know much in this case

Obama's advisory team and cabinet have made large turnovers in the past year--in all departments. Austan Goolsbee recently left Council on Economic Advisors, Gates out at DoD, Emanuel out as Chief of Staff, and dozens more.

And in a climate where the Republicans have blocked almost every nominee Obama puts forward, firing your staff isn't a very good option.

Carville is just drinking too many mint juleps lately and trying to stay relevant. He failed big time on this one.

[golfguru]

24. If I were the president, I would fire

Axelrod and hire Carville as the chief political strategist. James has proven record of success. I always value actual results more than theoretical conjectures. And actual results are discouraging, such as loss of NY house seat and favorable/unfavorable poll numbers.

[frazzled]

44. What election has Carville won in the last 20 years?

I think the answer would be none.

[golfguru]

55. Haha Carville has been on the sidelines for 20 years

but when he was active in the Clinton operation, he was very effective and successful.

[tcaudilllg]

57. Forget politics... just make the country work!

Clinton had Newt AND Dole to deal with, but it was never this bad.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. I Guess We Will Learn In Less Than Fourteen Months If He Was All Wet Or Not

.

[JoePhilly]

23. We'll be talking about Carville in 14 months?

Not likely.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. We Will Know If His Advice Was Smart Or Stupid In The Fullness Of Time

He will either be the "boy who cried wolf" or the "canary in the coal mine".

[JoePhilly]

61. Not likely.

1) If Obama wins, no one will care what Jimmy said 14 months earlier.

2) Do you think Jimmy is the FIRST Democratic pundit to scream that Obama might LOSE in 2012??? Hell, Jane Hamshier will lay claim to the "canary in the coal mine" role, and will Arainanna, and Ed Schultz, and about 20 other "leftist" pundits who are far more active than James.

Last week, Cheney said Hillary should primary Obama ... Mary told James to go on TV and scream at Obama from the left, and so he did. He has added nothing new.

[treestar]

27. He's mad he doesn't have the job maybe?

Couldn't Hillary get him in?

It is too much to his advantage that it so happens that Obama does not have a good staff, in his humble opinion. What could he get out of saying they were doing things right? Nothing.

[Vattel]

31. I don't get it.

Prosense: "Carville recuses himself when asked about firing his friend Bill Daley, but has no problem suggesting that the President fire his other friend Eric Holder?"

You seem to think that it is inconsistent for Carville to "recuse himself" when it comes to saying whether Carville's old friend Daley should be fired, but recommend that, if Holder is screwing up, Obama fire Obama's old friend Holder. Where is the inconsistency? It's not like Carville said, "Don't fire Daley cuz he is my old friend, but fire Holder even though he is your old friend." He recommends that Obama fire everyone who is screwing up.

[ProSense]

32. So

"You seem to think that it is inconsistent for Carville to "recuse himself" when it comes to saying whether Carville's old friend Daley should be fired, but recommend that, if Holder is screwing up, Obama fire Obama's old friend Holder. Where is the inconsistency? It's not like Carville said, "Don't fire Daley cuz he is my old friend, but fire Holder even though he is your old friend." He recommends that Obama fire everyone who is screwing up."

...who exactly does Carville wanted fired? Is Daley doing a good job? Why couldn't he just say what he believes one way or the other? Display a little of the political courage he's demanding of President. His statement on Holder was hypothetical, but he still has no problem declaring that he should be fired. Why did he have to recuse himself in response to Daley being fired?

[Vattel]

35. Man, you are really nitpicking here.

Daley is an old friend of Carville's; so he didn't want to come right out and say: Fire him. Big deal.

[ProSense]

36. Wait

"Daley is an old friend of Carville's; so he didn't want to come right out and say: Fire him. Big deal."

...this is supposed to excuse Carville? Does he want Daley fired, but just didn't want to be on record saying it?

Again, who exactly does Carville wanted fired? Is Daley doing a good job? Why couldn't he just say what he believes one way or the other? Display a little of the political courage he's demanding of President. His statement on Holder was hypothetical, but he still has no problem declaring that he should be fired. Why did he have to recuse himself in response to Daley being fired?

[truebrit71]

42. They should ALL be fired....

...and replaced with actual Democrats..

[jwirr]

33. I do not like Carville but some of his objections are sound. Almost

nothing is going to work with this staff. They have been giving the president bad advice from the start. However, I wonder if it is too late to fire them now.

[Ikonoklast]

34. Carville is a walking, talking contradiction.

If he advised me to do one thing, I would do the opposite, as that would be the correct strategy.

He is as much a Democrat as his wife is.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

38. How Can A Republican Write A Book Like This?

http://www.amazon.com/Were-Right-Theyre-Wrong-Progressives/dp/0679769781

[ProSense]

43. Well

Lanny Davis thinks he's a progressive.

Demanding that the President lift the drilling moratorium isn't progressive. It's Mary Landrieu's position.

Here's another Carville book.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

45. I Don't Agree With Everything Anybody Says Or Does But Me

But there is nothing in Carville's history that suggests he's a Republican beside the fact he goes to bed with one. It reminds me of when Bush Pere's daughter married Dick Gephardt's Chief Of Staff and some Repubs criticized her for marrying a Democrat. Barbara Bush essentially told them to f--k off. It's the only time I agreed with her. Oh, and I agreed with her when she said a "family is a group of people who love one another" openiing the door to non-traditional arrangements.

Back to Carville. You can bash him all you want but to suggest he's a crypto-Republican is kind of silly...


P.S. I don't think the pot shots Carville has taken at the president are fair, nice, or prudent. They make him look small...

[Ikonoklast]

63. That was a position piece for the Clinton administration.

If you think any of those positions are actually Carville's, you ignore what the man says and does.

He is a right-wing Democrat, at best.

[girl gone mad]

48. The only thing flawed about this advice is that it's coming 2 years too late.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

50. Well,

CNN Link Bait of The Week

...Carville works for CNN!!!

[Logical]

51. Sorry, I distrust anyone who thinks Obama is horrible or thinks Obama is perfect.

[ProSense]

52. Well,

"Sorry, I distrust anyone who thinks Obama is horrible or thinks Obama is perfect."

...I distrust people who claim they can read other people's mind.

[Logical]

53. Your posts are enough. But I respect your total dedication.

[awoke_in_2003]

54. You may annoy me sometimes...

but I have to say that Carville has always been a sleazeball in my eyes.

[LiberalFighter]

56. Carville appears to be rewriting history...

“For God’s sake, why are we still looking at the same political and economic advisers that got us into this mess?” Mr. Carville asked. “It’s not working. Furthermore, it’s not going to work with the same team, the same strategy and the same excuses.”

How could they have gotten him into the mess when GW Bush and his scumbag Republicans and Blue Dog Democrats are the ones responsible for the mess?

Daley appears to be an ineffective CoS and probably due to being used to being top dog in private sector instead of someone being the door.

[Major Hogwash]

59. You can almost hear the coffin lid opening every time the Crypt Keeper gets on tv,

Elvira would have a lot of competition if he ever decided to host his own Zombie Theatre show.

Well, maybe not a lot, I would never switch channels when Elvira is on tv.

Ha!