Simple Question: Head count

[Cronus Protagonist]

Assume we have one or more viable candidates willing to do it.

Primary Obama?

[jaxx]

1. No.

In this political climate it would be suicide for the Democrats.

[Llewlladdwr]

5. Trying to re-elect this President is going to be suicide.

And my fear is that he's going to pull the rest of the ticket down with him.

At some point the Party has to look at a candidate and make a call regarding their viability. For whatever reasons, fairly or not, Obama doesn't have the mojo needed to win a second term.

Do the Democrats want to lose big just so they can say they 'stood by their man'?

[Llewlladdwr]

6. I voted yes, by the way. NT

[jaxx]

14. Your last comment is blatant baiting.

As a Democrat I support the Democratic President of the United States.

[Llewlladdwr]

15. And as a Democrat, I say the Party has an obligation to put forth the best possible candidate.

I don't believe that President Obama is that candidate. Am I supposed to just shut the hell up and march along in lockstep? Isn't that what we make fun of the repubs for? Look, if Obama can win the Primary then he's the Democrats' candidate and entitled to all the support of the Party. If he can't win the Primary then he won't win the General either.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

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[Llewlladdwr]

47. Wow. Hostile much?

No I'm not running. See, I know I'm not a serious contender for the Democratic nomination. But that doesn't mean that a better candidate than Obama isn't out there. Would it hurt to find out?

[jaxx]

51. It would make the republicans very happy.

Kneecapping the current POTUS is right up their agenda.

By the way, I'm not hostile to you at all, but to the idea of primary. You might be my best friend in the whole world on this anonymous board.

[Llewlladdwr]

55. Okay. You're right.

I surrender dude. Lockstep it is, and shall remain.

[Skittles]

92. Obama has already kneecapped himself

[Tx4obama]

78. And who do you think the best candidate is? n/t

[Joe Bacon]

90. There is no Kennedy to challenge this Carter.

This is 1979 all over again, but nobody will challenge.

[RaleighNCDUer]

39. You understand, don't you, that the primary challenger would also be a Democrat?

As a Democrat, I support the democratic system of elections in the United States.

If he is primaried and he loses, then we will have a stronger Democrat replacing him. If he is primaried and wins, he will be stronger for the honing of his message during the primary, making him stronger against the Republican.

[jaxx]

42. What I've seen is Sanders, a socialist and

Nader a republican. Not a Democrat in the news as interested in running against the Democratic POTUS.

[RaleighNCDUer]

50. That was not the question.

Try reading it again, for content.

[jaxx]

52. I did read it and gave my answer.

There are no Democrats wanting to run against the POTUS.

[Name removed]

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[jaxx]

59. You don't like my answer so you call me a republican.

Very strange operating skills on a Democratic board.

[Name removed]

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[Cronus Protagonist]

65. I think the biblical reference for this is...

"casting pearls before swine"

(And for the nuance challenged, if I may anticipate: I'm not calling anyone a pig!)

:rofl:

[jaxx]

74. This is what I get a kick out of discussing things with people.....

they write all sorts of crap and call it nuance. Only in your dreams.

[Bake]

93. When the President starts being a DEMOCRAT, I'll support him.

Not until then.

Bake

[Cronus Protagonist]

19. Not baiting at all - in fact, it is a valid concern

Blind loyalty breeds servitude.

[jaxx]

24. More blatant baiting.

Is that all there is for those who wish the President to be gone? Baiting supporters?

Where is your courage....stuck on the keyboard?

[Name removed]

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[Cronus Protagonist]

66. Yoda loves you

He feels the force.

:beer: :beer:

[Tx4obama]

77. Geez. Obama hasn't even started campaigning yet. Obama will have tons of mojo ...

when he hits the campaign trail.

[quiller4]

83. I've been phone banking for Obama and I'm getting more positive

feedback from the people I reach now than I did when I was calling in 2008. Back then many I called feared he was too far left.

[Carolina]

12. as if the Democrats are doing so much for

us as in "We, the people."

They're repuke-lite/like now. Plus they have demonstrated that they can't handle power! They had a mandate for change in 2008...

And I say this as a Democrat since JFK. I have given up on the so-called leaders of the party who would piss away the greatest legacies (SS, Medicare, etc.) of true Democrats (FDR, JFK, LBJ).

[lamp_shade]

2. If you're looking for a shitload of yesses, you've come to the right place.

But you knew that.

[lamp_shade]

3. Any minute now....

[Dawgs]

11. That's because DUers are informed, and most don't have their head up their butt. n/t

[Cronus Protagonist]

20. Looks about 50/50, so I guess you were wrong

Which is the point of the OP... to get a handle on how much support/disgust Obama has generated during his term so far.

[Number23]

86. True, but he posted this in GD-P and not GD

So maybe he's not just interested in a shitload of "yesses."

[Mojambo]

4. I don't think a primary challenge would be nearly as harmful to Democratic chances as is assumed

So I voted yes.

[quiller4]

84. I remember 1980 far too clearly. Not only did the Kennedy challenge

hurt Carter, it tore the local Democratic organization apart and inflicted wounds that took years to heal.

[MADem]

7. Give it up. You'll have to go to a party other than the Democratic Party to make that happen.

Try Greens, Communists, Socialists, whomever....none of them will have a prayer, but if you want a candidate, that's where you need to go. Asking for a Democratic Primary is like beating a dead and rotted horse.

The only circumstances that would involve the prospect of a primary are ones that I hope will never happen, and don't want even to contemplate.

Obama is our candidate, get over it, and get used to it.

[RaleighNCDUer]

43. Read much? OP clearly says "assuming a viable candidate",

and people from other parties CANNOT primary a Democratic president, unless they run as Democrats. In which case they are not running as any of those other party candidates.

Do you understand what "primary" means?

[MADem]

44. Do you? I think not.

Obama will not have a primary challenger. That is my thesis.

People who want a candidate to challenge him will have to head for another party.

Capisce? Or is that too complex a notion?

RTFT.

[Name removed]

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[MADem]

54. My answer is the same regardless. It's like asking if Santa wants cake or cookies.

There STILL is no Santa. You can wish, hope and dream. You can use words like "assume" and "viable" and play games till the cows come home. The bottom line is this--it's not going to happen. A unicorn will come by to blow fairy dust up your behind before Obama has a primary challenger. Is that clear enough for you, or do I need to break it down yet again?

You're the one who needs to learn to read CONTEXTUALLY.

Concrete thinking will bite you in the ass every time.

Try for a little nuance, there, sport--and slow down. Get the "drift" before you shoot your mouth off.

[RaleighNCDUer]

60. Concrete thinking? Me?

You're the one who is incapable of answering a hypothetical question (but not the only one, as another poster suffers the same malady).

By saying "nobody will primary Obama" you are choosing to not answer the question. That's your prerogative, but it is disingenuous to refuse to answer the question and then say you did.

Should he be primaried, or not? Very simple. Yes or no.

The question leads to "would a primary challenge by a viable challenger hurt or help the party?" Saying "It ain't gonna happen" does not answer that question.

"Get the "drift" before you shoot your mouth off." WTF does that mean, other than I've touched a nerve?

[MADem]

64. Oh, horseshit.

How fat is Santa? When did you stop eating dog snouts for breakfast?

There are some questions that are absolute CRAP, that cannot be answered in the childlike way you desire, because they don't exist outside a naive or immature mind.

Obama will not be primaried. There's no unicorn for you.

Grow up.

You haven't touched a nerve, but you have exposed yourself for precisely what you are. It ain't pretty.

[jefferson_dem]

8. Uncrec due to false premise.

None would be viable, even if they wanted to run.

[Cronus Protagonist]

21. Thanks for the bump

I don't care about recs or unrecs - surely this thread is not the best that DU has to offer. Interesting though, that your own premise is the one that, in fact, is false.

[jefferson_dem]

22. Really? So you think there are plausible primary opponents to Obama that would be viable.

Who might they be?

[Cronus Protagonist]

25. Get back to me in 2012

I see a rising tide and I bet that floats quite a few more boats before the election season really gets under way.

[jefferson_dem]

27. Oh.

Lame. So you don't have anyone in mind.

Fact is, any opponent who even hopes to be viable would have to get in there like now. You do know the Iowa Caucuses are set for February 2012, right?

[Cronus Protagonist]

31. I have TWO people in mind

I won't name them, though. And I'm sure I can think of several others. Let's talk when Obama does his next 10 Republican Giveaways, and I'm sure there will be more serious candidates coming out of the woodwork.

[CakeGrrl]

80. YOU have two people in mind. More important:

Do THEY have a primary challenge in mind?

Have you lobbied them?

Have they shown any interest?

[RaleighNCDUer]

46. Gore won the general election in 2000. Kerry won the general election in 2004.

They are still out there. Not saying I think they WILL primary Obama, but that they COULD primary him. There are a great many who have national recognition, many of whom have been in national elections before.

Not probable primary opponents, but certainly plausible.

[jefferson_dem]

61. I guess it's all in how you define "plausible".

In my view, Gore and Kerry are only plausible in an imaginary world. Not this one.

[Safetykitten]

9. No, we are on a rocket sled to failure now. Slowing it just causes more anxiety.

[MADem]

10. Why don't you jump off while there's still time? NT

[Llewlladdwr]

13. Some of us are thinking about it.

I find it hard to understand why so many Democrats are willing to blindly support a re-election bid by a President who is looking increasingly like a loser. I'm certainly not suggesting we stop supporting the President's agenda while he's in office, but that doesn't mean we can't look at other potential candidates as well.

[MADem]

17. Do send me a message pointing me to your GBCW farewell opus!

It's getting close to time for folks to shit or get off the pot, I'm thinking.

Lead, follow, or get outta the way.

I think you need glasses--Obama is going to win reelection handily. That may not suit your gloom-and-doom philosophy, but that's the bottom line.

[Llewlladdwr]

18. Oh, I have no intention of leaving.

But I disagree that Obama is a shoo-in for re-election.

If he is though, he should be able to easily defeat any challengers in the Democratic Primary, right?

[MADem]

33. Well, what was the point of your "Some of us are thinking about it" post?

Don't dance for my benefit.

As we begin the hard work of a national election cycle, trying to hold and make gains in Congress, and reelect our Democratic President, people who constantly criticize and tout gloom and doom will not be missed, so it's no threat if you decide that the Democratic Party or its candidates are not a good fit for you. If that's the case and you can't support the nominee, you probably would be happier at Green or Socialist Underground--if there is such a thing.

There will be no primary challenger. Disabuse yourself of that flamebaitish/naive notion, and don't waste time with "What if Santa did exist?" type questions. You want another candidate? Try the Greens, they usually put up someone the bulk of the population has never heard of, who has a few good though sometimes unsustainable ideas, but could use a deluxe Dale Carnegie course. That candidate will not win, but at least your glass can, for a brief and shining moment, be half full...for a change.

[Llewlladdwr]

53. Just to point out that not all Democrats are enthralled with the current President.

I'm talking about jumping off of Rocket Sled Obama, not Rocket Sled Democrats. If Obama is the Party's choice, then he's the Party's choice. But are you really that certain that there's not a better Democrat out there?

But go ahead and keep working to make sure that a Primary opponent doesn't arise. Continue to support the President as if he's the only choice. Keep telling yourself that anyone who thinks maybe we should explore our options is just looking for Santa.

And please, keep telling everyone who disagrees with you to leave the Party. That certainly helps.

[Name removed]

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[Tarheel_Dem]

16. I voted "Yes". Hope that helps.

:spray:

If a bear farts in the woods, and no one hears it, did it really happen? Let's take a DU poll. :rofl:

[styersc]

28. Those voting no had better come to grips with a reality.

We have almost 10 months until the convention with no positive change in sight.

There will certainly be a primary challenge. The money is going to dry up going to the campaign and the challenger will gain momentum. This may cause Obama to begin to pay attention to the base, but the reality is, hell or high water, we are going to have a Democrat enter this contest.

[jaxx]

29. You're running too?

That makes 2 in this thread so far.

[Cronus Protagonist]

30. Non Sequitur

Tells us more about you than you're saying about them.

[styersc]

34. Hell yeah, If I'm forced to run to put at least one Democrat in the

race, sure I'll do it.

[jaxx]

35. Ok. Now for your name, rank and serial number.

Full disclosure.

[MADem]

63. Don't forget the financial disclosure forms, and the SF180 for military service, as applicable! nt

[quakerboy]

89. Just wanted to say

Your sig pic speaks volumes

[MADem]

40. ...

:rofl:

[MADem]

37. Those voting yes need to pull their heads out. Anyone who isn't "in the mix" now will never be.

The reality is that your hypothesis is crap. No one is so stupid as to believe that a candidate can run a campaign on fairy dust blown up their ass, are they? Campaigns take money. Where are these mythical challengers going to get the money? From the Magical "I Hate Obama" Gnome? From the "little people?" Please.

Save your money and spend it on drugs, if that's what you're imagining--that'll bring you a tad closer to that "reality" you're on about.

The reelection war chest continues to grow. It's fed by long-term donors, large and small, new donors, those hated corporations, and PACs, PACs, and more PACs. No Democrat will challenge Obama, and if you think that's going to happen, I've a bridge for sale--cash only, and cheap! Stuff the envelope full and send it my way!

:eyes:

[BzaDem]

91. Edit

nevermind.

[Life Long Dem]

32. Doesn't matter.

Let Hillary throw her hat in so we can have some fun. Once again that is. :rofl:

[great white snark]

36. Wishfull thinking from the very far left.

Feingold and Sanders support our President. There are no credible candidates left.

[MADem]

45. So far left they're coming round to far right.... nt

[JoePhilly]

38. Generally speaking, I think one should never masturbate in public.

There is no viable primary candidate.

Sure you can fantasize about one. But it is not happening.

Just as the college freshman nerd fantasizes about 2 hot cheerleaders who knock on his lonely door on a Friday night, asking him to tutor them. And then, when he lets them in, he has the most amazing sexual adventure of his life.

Great fantasy. Not happening.

[blkmusclmachine]

41. If we do find a Primary Opponent to Obama,

can we be certain (s)he's not another DLC DINO like Obama? One DEM Party-killing Candidate is enough, thank you very much.

[Peacetrain]

48. How do I say this nicely?.. HELL NO!

Best I could do

[yurbud]

56. a more realistic proposal: figure out how to block corporate Dem nominee in 2016

[Recovered Repug]

67. In theory - Yes.

However, the lack of a viable candidate(s) renders the question moot.

[Cronus Protagonist]

71. Moot now, or moot forever?

I say let's wait and see what arises - we're still a long way away. Stranger things have happened in politics.

[Phx_Dem]

68. You guys are just dying to primary him. Why don't you save yourself the trouble and just

vote for Rick Perry. You'll get the same result and save yourself alot of time day dreaming.

[GoCubsGo]

69. +1

Thank you. This primarying shit is getting really, really old. It ain't gonna happen, so why do people keep bringing it up?

[Cronus Protagonist]

70. That almost doesn't merit a response

The purpose of a primary is to select and put up the strongest candidate. Your claim makes a mockery of the legitimate process.

Your argument comes down to a claim that if we don't run Obama, we will lose to Perry.

What a steaming pile of BullCrap

If someone ran Democratic on a populist, job creating platform who actually would govern that way, Obama would be toast, he would win both the primary and the national election.

I have no doubt that either Obama, or a replacement candidate with better cred can also beat Perry, so your claim is without grounds.

[Bobbie Jo]

88. +2

[FrenchieCat]

72. I say let's do it!

:bounce:

But answer me this; when the Republican is sworn in, who's fault will that be then,
and how will they be held accountable for what will happen
to many people over that next four years?

[bigwillq]

73. Every incumbent should face a primary challenge

on every level. That's the democratic way!

[jefferson_dem]

75. So who do you recommend challenge independent Bernie Sanders in VT?

[bigwillq]

81. ME!

:bounce:

[ClassWarrior]

76. Simple answer. Hypotheticals are nonsense.

NGU.

[Tx4obama]

79. Take the 'best dem candidate' challenge on the link below :)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=761518&mesg_id=761518

[NYC_SKP]

82. IMHO, a "Viable Candidate" would have to be Filthy Rich to run a campaign...

...which would, almost by definition, be a dis-qualifier from the get-go.

For me and for most progressives.

I can't think of anyone with the right mind and with the funds to back a campaign (or access to them).

:donut:

[BlueIris]

85. Impossible for me to believe he's reelectable at this point, so yes.

If for no other reason than a renomination = GOP presidency.

[joshcryer]

87. This question is not very useful without a candidate, imo.

ie, I think I would be more prone to vote 'yes' if I was given a potential candidate and a question as to whether they should primary challenge, etc. Otherwise without such a candidate I'm unable to think of one, so it would be folly to say primary Obama with an unknown.