People are talking about the lost decade. Nuts.

[Jackpine Radical]

It might be a lost millenium.

There are problems much larger than unemployment and the deficit facing us. Peak oil, global climate change, overpopulation, potential epidemics as a result of overpopulation, etc. We're not heading for a double-dip recession. We're heading for an interrelated set of catastrophes that beggar the imagination.

We have crossed the climate tipping point. Soon large areas of the planet will become unsuitable for food production. There will be no oil to fertilize crops, control pests, run farm machinery, or move things around. Your money will be worthless. Ultimately, I imagine the world population will plummet, in some very nasty ways.

Nobody is paying attention to this. The media are lying, disinformation is the norm, politicians campaign on rage and hate rather than on sensible plans to mitigate the onrushing disasters. The public has been trained to reject the warnings coming out of honest and competent scholarship in favor of comforting delusions pushed by the sinister Overlords.

It will take a thousand years for the earth to recover from the terrible damage we have already inflicted on it. With responsible leadership and planning, there are things we could do to soften some of the blows. But none of this is remotely on the public's radar screen.

[Lindsay]

1. Most of the time I just feel like a canary in a coal mine.

Reassuring to know I'm not alone, anyway.

[Kennah]

2. And we're the ones gasping for air

[whirlygigspin]

3. 1000 years...nonsense

300 years...tops, with our new Chinese overlords in control

thanks America! 我愛你

[Armstead]

4. Why do you hate Obama?

Seriously though, I think it is more managable for us humans to get preoccupied by immediate things than to speculate on the larger picture.

It's a shame, because if we had only taken the energy and environmental warnings that emerged in the 70's seriously and acted on it, we'd probably have spared a lot of the problems we are contending with today.

And the underlying issues in the debates that are going on now will have an effect on the future. But we keep it superficial, and as result people may be looking back on our present as the "good old days."

I got no answers to that, but it is worthwhile to think about and try to do something about.

[jimlup]

5. I tend to agree... this may well be the beginning of the big fall

Not fun but then we who know can prepare. I'm learning to garden and trying to get other stuff in order. I'm not assuming I'll have any services (electricity water etc.) in five years.

[denem]

6. The Lost Decade is Economic Shorthand for stalled, the opportunity cost nt

[Jackpine Radical]

9. Yes, I know. But

the world economy isn't going to get any better, and in any case economic measures don't really capture the real issues of quality of life.

[denem]

19. Given that jobs in 2001 = jobs in 2011, I think

that measure says something about the quality of life for those who don't have one.

One your wider points, I agree. It saddens me beyond words.

[Jackpine Radical]

22. I know, I was just trying to expand the perspective

beyond the Dow & S&P. I love those concepts like "jobless recovery."

[jefferson_dem]

7. Meh...

While things are not pretty right now...Let's not overstate the case.

It's just American politics.

Hang tough. All will be better before you know it.

[Jackpine Radical]

10. Yeah, suddenly we'll be back down to 350 ppm CO2,

the weather will return to normal, all those polar bears will be happily cavorting on the newly re-frozen polar ice, and we'll all be living on the Big Rock Candy Mountain.

[fujiyama]

8. I agree with you on some fronts

though on others, I am not so sure.

It's true that we live in a world of constrained and limited resources. I also think it's about time that we understand that due to global competition and increasing living standards in two very large and rapidly expanding developing countries (China and India), we aren't what we were. The resources that we consumed will likely be distributed more in the future. We won't be able to monopolize them. This of course means higher energy costs. The question is how are those prices going to be offset? More drilling? Or will we invest in other technologies? How much will those alternatives cost and how are we to produce them? What about the resources used to produce such technologies (mining them)? Here I am speaking of rare earth metals, largely found in China. Will we be dependent on them for those?

Overpopulation is another concept. Right now, our nation has a pretty consistent growth rate, of anywhere between .85%-.98%. I don't think this is excessive. I also don't think we want a negative birth rate like say, Japan - causing other potential demographic problems, where fewer workers can support a safety net for retired people. And the reality is that having more than one or two children nowadays is VERY expensive and most younger couples realize this. Birth control is less controversial than it has ever been and I think it should be noted that this administration has made birth control even more widely available by fully covering it. The religious right will always fight it though, but the reality is they've lost this battle and they look very ridiculous. As a free society, we should educate young people more about contraception, but ultimately I don't wish to see a "one child policy" implemented. The real problem with overpopulation is that in the developing world, and mostly among nations least able to afford to raise children. These are mostly failed states (Yemen, Pakistan, and several African nations) with way too much religious influence (mostly majority Muslim, but some are Catholic). Unfortunately with ever increasing debt problems among developed nations, contraceptive aid will possibly decrease to these places.

I do agree about climate change's impacts to ecosystems and environments everywhere. But don't bet for a second that governments won't ignore those effects, if it means tighter regulations and potentially higher unemployment rates. It will be a continuing challenge, requiring changes in lifestyle, but expensive investments as well.

[Jackpine Radical]

11. What color is the sky on your world?

[MrMickeysMom]

13. Paisley?

... with pretty ponies jumping through a giant rainbow....

[fujiyama]

16. It's kind of gray and overcast where I live

Were you being snarky or serious?

[MrMickeysMom]

12. JR, I hear you, but there is a movement that addressed this...

The fact that I cannot even mention it on GDP without it being removed is a shame. That that made a movie and follow up movie as their movement formed is something everyone should be able to discuss here.

So, if you've not figured it out the movie that begins with the letter, "Z", PM me and I'll link you.

As well, there are more conventional grass roots organizations who are trying to talk about Sustainability in our municipalities. Sadly, their efforts get little if any respect.

MMM

[Jackpine Radical]

14. I guess it's just the spirit of the times--like they say in German,

der Zeitgeist, nicht wahr?

[sudopod]

15. lol nt

[CBGLuthier]

17. Silly. We have not hurt the earth one little bit. Made it harder for some lifeforms

ourselves included but the Earth? The EARTH is doing fine and will do fine long after we join the dinosaurs.

[TheKentuckian]

18. Harder? We're talking mass extinction. We are making it harder for life.

Especially our kind of life. Will the 3rd rock from the Sun keep orbiting? Sure. Does that follow that it will be a cradle of life? No.

[blkmusclmachine]

20. Everything becomes clear...the moment you start believing in Rapture.

See, all better now. :evilgrin:

[Jackpine Radical]

21. Yeah, but I think that whole goofy Fundie rapture business

is just one more of the lies that the psychopaths in power use to delude the fools into doing their bidding, just as they use abortion & anti-gay politics. The greedhead manipulators don't believe in or care about any of that stuff. They also know the truth about GW.

They just don't care. They're out to grab it all.