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Purveyor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 12:14 PM
Original message
Hoyer: Dems Didn't 'Give Away The Store'
By Mike Lillis - 08/01/11 09:52 AM ET

House Minority Whip Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) on Monday defended the White House debt-limit package from liberal attacks, arguing that both sides were forced to make concessions.

"I don't think we gave away the store," Hoyer told Bloomberg News.

Liberal Democrats have slammed the debt-limit package as a giveaway to the wealthy at the expense of the working class because it includes hundreds of billions of dollars in domestic spending cuts but no tax-revenue increases.

"Spending cuts but no revenue increases? My constituents called, e-mailed my office asking for balance," Rep. Emanuel Cleaver (D-Mo.), chairman of the Congressional Black Caucus, tweeted Monday. "Democrats got nothing in this deal, and if we did, someone please show it to me."

MORE...

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/174665-hoyer-dems-didnt-give-away-the-store

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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. there were no gains, but no loses either..
Ending the W tax cuts would have actually been a major gain and would have benefited to chopping down the deficit. If repukes and their teahadist pals are were really serious about the deficit, then ending those cuts should have been a given.

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Phx_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
2. TPMs provides a look at the bill. It's not bad.
Would have been better if we had some revenue increases, but when the other side is willing to take us all over the cliff, you get what you can and we didn't do badly with this bill. The fact that emo progressives and teabaggers are pissed is good. When both of those two groups are unhappy, you know you're on the right track.


SILVER LININGS

Backloaded

Most economists would agree, now is a bad time to cut government spending. We're already seeing the contractionary effects of the end of the stimulus, and this just reinforces those. The good news is that the near term cuts are quite small. Only about two percent of the nearly $3 trillion in savings outlined in this plan occur in the first year, and they don't all come from social programs. They also come from defense spending and other domestic programs. So its near-term impact on the economy will be pretty small. Of course, if the economy doesn't recover soon, the out year cuts will turn out to be very painful.


Enforcement

As explained at length on Sunday, most of the projected savings from this plan will come from a new Congressional committee, tasked with finding at least $1.2 trillion in deficit reduction, either from entitlement cuts, or tax increases or both. If that committee gridlocks, or Congress doesn't pass its recommendations, or President Obama vetoes that package, it will trigger automatic, broad cuts to both defense and domestic programs. Most of that will come from defense spending and from Medicare providers. The bad news is, there's no tax revenue in the triggers, so no guarantee anywhere that the truly wealthy will have to contribute to deficit reduction. The good news is, the breakdown of this enforcement mechanism is fairly progressive, given that it's all cuts. It amounts mostly to a two percent cut for Medicare providers, and a whopping $500 billion in defense cuts over 10 years. Programs for the poor and for veterans and Social Security and Medicaid are all cordoned off. The added bonus here is this means influential defense hawks, and the interests that back them, will do whatever they can to force the committee to pass a bipartisan fiscal plan, even if it means picking a fight with anti-tax Republicans. The other added bonus is that these "sequestered" cuts won't take effect until 2013 -- the same time the Bush tax cuts are scheduled to expire.


The Bush Tax Cuts

This plan contains zero guarantees that taxes will be raised -- more on that below. But it's unexpectedly compatible with the White House pledge to let at least some of the Bush tax cuts expire, particularly those benefiting the wealthiest American. Here's why: When the new fiscal committee convenes, it will have free reign to look at both entitlement cuts and tax increases. The problem is that tax increases are scored by the Congressional Budget Office against "current law," which assumes the expiration of all the Bush tax cuts. So if the committee tries to end the tax cuts for the top earners, but make the rest of them permanent, it will score as a big tax cut and thus a budget buster. Not something a committee tasked with deficit reduction will want to touch. But that means the committee will have to look at other revenue raising options -- loopholes and expenditures that have nothing to do with the Bush tax cuts, say, or a new millionaire's tax bracket. But that also means the Bush tax cuts will survive this process in a way that almost guarantees they'll be set to expire at the end of 2012. That gives Democrats a lot of leverage if they want to pick a fight over those cuts with Republicans next year. History suggests they'll chicken out. But perhaps they won't.

<SNIP>

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/08/the-four-big-problems-with-and-four-silver-linings-around-the-debt-limit-deal.php?ref=fpa
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. There needs to be a millionaire's tax or increase the number of tax brackets
Lower income tax brackets should have a lower tax rate. Maybe 8 or 9% but not necessarily on all the taxable income at the current 10%. Possibly parts of the current 10% at 2 or 3 different rates.

There should also be a minimum tax on those above $1 million, $2.5 million, $5 million, etc. that cannot be reduced by exemptions or deductions.

If they really want to increase revenue without increasing taxes then get rid of religious deductions.
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HowHasItComeToThis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
3. TOO BAD WE NO LONGER HAVE A PRESIDENT
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
4. Hoyer is a sell out dammit !! /sarcasm (yes, that's needed around here)
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dbackjon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
5. No, but they took the locks off the door
So Republicans can steal at will later.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
6. He's right. So far we only gave away the inventory
Next time we'll likely have to take out a second mortgage on the store at a high interest rate. After that the store gets foreclosed on.
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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
7. I wrote to my (D) Gang of Six senator and got back a standard reply
Edited on Mon Aug-01-11 12:33 PM by spooky3
with no responses to questions about why the top tax rate was lowered (in the Gang of 6 plan) and urging both revenue increases and certain defense cuts. And it sounds as if the "deal" is even worse.

From Rep. Cleaver's comments, it seems I said the same things that many of his constituents did.

We really are being tyrannized by the minority.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
8. If he doesn't know for sure, and has to insert "I don't think"
then count on the fact that the store is being given away... In some super secret back door deal...
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okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
10. the complaints are ok with me, but why just complain do something
march on dc. hell march in your neighborhood, get out there and let them know your pissed off. me I think president obama is ok, not great, but not as bad as some around here make him out to be.
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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Haven't you heard, there is a high unemployment rate
It costs money to march on DC and a lot of us are barely staying afloat, thanks to the Corporate fat cats.
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okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. so the teabaggers are the only ones with jobs? n/t.
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-01-11 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
13. A ten year program of spending cuts, beginning after the Bush tax cuts expire
...and the deal pretty much finally guarantees that the tax cuts will expire, as their expiration is figured into the revenue figures it uses. If they are somehow extended now, that will be counted as an new expense, which will have to be offset by new revenue - see?

So there are no actual spending cuts until after the tax cuts expire.
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