Glenn Greenwald "Obama and the Left: a problem for the WH?"

[MNBrewer]

<http://www.salon.com/news/politics/democratic_party/index.html?story=/opinion/greenwald/2011/07/26/left>

"Even small defections, along with pervasive cynicism, disappointment, and apathy, can sink Obama's campaign. Kilgore's underlying assumption is correct, and it's one I've argued many times: a political constituency that slavishly and unconditionally supports a Party will inevitably be ignored by that Party. That's just basic political rationality. The question is whether the clearly growing discontent on the Left will translate into anything more meaningful than impotent words. I genuinely don't know the answer, but the hubristic confidence on the part of the White House, as expressed by Kilgore, seems very unwarranted."

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"More than a third of Americans now believe that President Obama’s policies are hurting the economy, and confidence in his ability to create jobs is sharply eroding among his base. . . . The Post-ABC poll found that the number of liberal Democrats who strongly support Obama’s record on jobs plunged 22 points from 53 percent last year to 31 percent. The number of African Americans who believe the president's actions have helped the economy has dropped from 77 percent in October to just over half of those surveyed."

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Looks like Obama's hippy-punching and kow-towing to the monied interests is finally paying off (for the Republicans).

[ProSense]

1. "is finally paying off (for the Republicans)." Yup,

from the poll

Meanwhile, voters appear to be blaming both sides for the debt stalemate--though they blame the GOP substantially more. According to the poll, 77 percent of Americans say the congressional GOP is "not willing enough" to compromise with Obama on the debt. By comparison, 58 percent say Obama hasn't compromised enough.

...paying off!

Who did they poll, Boehner's base?

Greg Sargent:

<...>

Has the President been meaningfully rewarded for the focus on the deficit? Unclear. Approval of his handling of the deficit is up five points, but it remains mired at 38 percent, and disapproval of Obama on the deficit is running at the same heights it was a month ago, at 60 percent. (The numbers on the deficit were previously released, but are newly relevant.)

Yes, voters tell pollsters they care about the deficit. But tellingly, Obama’s disapproval numbers on the economy and deficit are almost identical — suggesting yet again that disapproval on the deficit may merely be a proxy for economic dissatisfaction.

* Obama’s numbers are still better than GOP’s: Still, the White House can take comfort from the fact that Obama outperforms the GOP on jobs (65 percent disapprove of the GOP, versus only 52 percent who disapprove of Obama) and even on the deficit (68 percent disapprove of the GOP).

* And public still blames Bush: No matter how many times the right tries to wish this one away, an astonishing 57 percent continue to say Bush’s policies made the economy worse — 20 points higher than the number who say the same about Obama.

<...>

[pscot]

8. The WH won't find much comfort

in the latest Wapo/ABC poll:

The Post-ABC poll found that the number of liberal Democrats who strongly support Obama’s record on jobs plunged 22 points from 53 percent last year to 31 percent. The number of African Americans who believe the president’s actions have helped the economy has dropped from 77 percent in October to just over half of those surveyed

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/more-americans-unhappy-with-obama-on-economy-jobs/2011/07/25/gIQABJ9sZI_story.html?wpisrc=al_politics

[Fire1]

37. Don't believe everything you read AND POTUS doesn't

watch polls.

[Name removed]

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[Tarheel_Dem]

2. Who coulda guessed that Glenn "I live outside the country" Greenwald..

would agree with Kilgore? :rofl: I think the bigger shock would be if he didn't. :rofl:

[Bluenorthwest]

3. Glen lives outside the country because this country discriminates

against GLBT people and will not allow his partner to immigrate to live here with him. I'm sure you know that. There are several DUers who live outside the country, some of the most ardent Obama supporters in fact. Shall we also rag on them for their residency or even citizenship in other nations? Of course not, because of discrimination, what is fine for some is not even legal for others.
I wonder if the expat ardents share your snark toward expats, particularly those who are forced to be due to discriminatory policies in place to please bigoted, backward idiots.

[Name removed]

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[MNBrewer]

10. That's close to an Ad Hominem statement

Because he had to leave his home country in order to be with the man he loves, you dismiss his statements? Nothing about his living in Brazil invalidates a word of what he said.

[boppers]

54. Something about living in another country...

You lose touch with the realities on the ground there.

[Phx_Dem]

4. Greenwald is an emo and I wish he woludn't lump all Dems into

that small and whiny group

[KoKo]

7. Ahhhh.. Emo...is being spread around here like a meme, today.

interesting.

[Name removed]

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[KoKo]

21. Well....should be noted...it's kinda' weird...

:eyes:

[vi5]

48. I've heard a few people talk about this...

Mostly people making fun of others using the term. But thankfully I've now realized that most of the people using it are on my ignore list so I haven't had to be annoyed at seeing this latest talking point/marching order in use.

[sudopod]

56. If I wanted to be on 4chan right now

I'd go to 4chan. They're much better at it.

[MNBrewer]

11. you forgot something

this

:rofl:

seems that this emoticon and calling people "Emo" are all that some people have to offer these days.

[polichick]

16. Yeah, they can't argue the issues so resort to name-calling.

[KoKo]

23. But...(I looked it up on Google) Emo...is very cool in the Goth Spinoffs...

Check it out. But, it's sad that this is being used on this board "politcally." :-(

[Hawkowl]

30. It's their GOTV strategy!

It's google dimensional chess at its finest! Seriously, if anyone sane still believes that ridiculing voters is the best way to get them to vote for you, I've got some AAA second mortgages to sell you.

[KoKo]

36. LOL's...the thought occurred to me, also...but, didn't want to be too harsh..

:eyes: Sad...

[Name removed]

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[jefferson_dem]

13. You mean the Glenn Greenwald who automatically assumed the Oslo attacks were by a Muslim jihadist?

CATO stooge, supporter of Republican Gary Johnson for POTUS, and promoter of Matt Drudge's nauseating spin?

Fuck him.

[MNBrewer]

15. are you QUITE SURE about that?

that he "automatically assumed the Oslo attacks were by a Muslim jihadist?"

[jefferson_dem]

17. Yup...

And he procedes to jump to typically wild-eyed conclusions, supported only by his own shallow biases.

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/07/22/oslo

How anyone still sees Greenwald as a credible source is beyond me....

[MNBrewer]

18. To quote directly from your linked article

"The perpetrators of these attacks are unknown, as is their motives, though one self-described "jihadi" group claimed responsibility."

are you STILL quite sure?

[jefferson_dem]

19. Amazingly, he goes on to argue that jihadists would be justified in hitting Norway

with terror attacks because the country has supported some military missions in the past ... or something. Hideous.

[Name removed]

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[MNBrewer]

22. he said they're justified???

"This has nothing to do with justification, as these kinds of civilian-targeting attacks are, as I said, inherently unjustifiable (though if NATO declares the leader of Libya a "legitimate military target" and air bombs his residence, what's the argument as to why the office of the Prime Minister whose country is at war with Libya is not a legitimate target?). The point is that it's completely unsurprising that a nation at war -- whether Norway or the U.S. -- is going to be targeted with violent attacks. That's what "being at war" means, and it's usually what it provokes. And the way this fact is suppressed ("a coordinated assault on the ordinarily peaceful Scandinavian nation" = the post-9/11 why do they hate us?) highlights how we view violence as something only those Others commit, but not we."

[KoKo]

24. Jefferson Dem...Watch THIS: Glenn Greenwald...."Norway Attacks"

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/26/glenn_greenwald_norway_attacks_expose_us

[jefferson_dem]

26. Thanks for the link.

I'm familiar with Greenwald's latest position on the attacks (I do follow him on Twitter) and tend to agree with him.


...Only wish he wouldn't have jumped to his typically reckless, ham-handed conclusions four days earlier.

[KoKo]

35. Uh...Oh...Then why the "trashing?"

:shrug:

[Name removed]

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[Creideiki]

25. Barring a sea change, Obama lost my partner's vote

The easiest way to get my honey to growl now is to say Obama's name. He is one unhappy Cub.

[robcon]

27. It's not a problem for the presdient. The left will vote for him in '12.

The left will not vote for the Repug candidate, and they will not repeat the folly of 2000 by voting for a third party candidate.

As an incumbent, he'll get plenty of contributions from people other than the left. The left will not be motivated to contribute to the president.

I think the president will continue to (pretty much) ignore the left, and govern from the center.

He'll get re-elected easily in 2012.

[MNBrewer]

28. "I think the president will continue to (pretty much) ignore the left"

That WILL be a problem. If the left stays home....

[robcon]

46. The left will not stay home. They'll vote for Obama.

They are vitally interested in politics, and the idea that they will not vote is absurd, IMO.

[Creideiki]

29. What's the roadmap to 290 electoral votes?

I can't see it.

Cut the Big Three and Florida's gone.

The Upper Midwest is likely stable, mostly because the uber-rightwing nutjob Governors overextended so, so badly.

The Intermountain West? Colorado, New Mexico, Nevada? I can't see those going His way. Bennett barely squeaked out a Senate win in 2010, but well..

[Hawkowl]

40. Pennsylvania is gone as well

No way he gets Indiana again. Ohio? With the unabated job loss? No way.

[Creideiki]

45. Might get Ohio. Kasich completely overextended.

[Name removed]

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[Number23]

38. WHY do people here insist on using the phrase "hippy punching?"

Do people here not realize that 90% of Americans either don't know anything about hippies or could not care less about them?

Do you think Obama spends time thinking about hippies, let alone "punching" them?? If there was ever a phrase that conjured up delusions of grandeur combined with an epic lack of current understanding, it would have to be "hippie punching." Every time I see someone use that phrase, I just go why the hell would anybody think that ANYONE still cares or thinks about hippies??!

[TipToeTulips]

39. I believe it is a figure of speech

Dont think he literally punches them!

[CakeGrrl]

41. I don't get why people are so eager to use it for self-reference

It just has that "poor me, I'm being picked on" feel to it. I myself would prefer to be in a fighting spirit.

[Number23]

42. That's what I'm saying

And it doesn't just have a "poor me" feel to it. The fact that anyone would still consider themself a "hippie" in 2011 and that people are "hippie punchers" is just absolutely bizarre to me.

There is something surreally out of touch with people using the phrase "hippie punching" in the 21st century. I can't think of a group of people more last century than hippies.

[vi5]

50. People don't actually consider themselves hippies...

..it's a figure of speech. Just as things don't literally "jump the shark".

It's more mocking the Democrats who feel it's their job or that it provides them some sort of credibility to go against or piss off the base of liberals. It's more mocking them for still viewing things through this outdated lens of the battles of the 60's.

[Number23]

53. That actually makes sense

Thanks for posting that.

I still think that it is an expression that makes the person using it (and ONLY the person using it) look like a decaying dinosaur, but your explanation is really interesting.

[Safetykitten]

43. I think it's hysterical.

[vi5]

49. Yes, it's outdated because that's the thinking....

The problem is far too many people in Washington (particularly Democrats) , and far too many in the DC media are still viewing things through this prism of the 60's. They can't not support wars......can't be too environmentally supportive....any number of positions that far too many Democrats feel they can't be vocally and adamantly behind because it brings up too many memories of how liberals were perceived back then. This fear of the 60's and Vietnam is pretty much what got us into Iraq.

So when elected Democrats stop being afraid of being too liberal and being called hippies, maybe people will stop using the expression for what they are doing.

[Fly by night]

44. I'd love to know how much support Obama has lost by doubling-down on the dumb-ass drug war.

Around here, it is 100% among liberal, moderate and conservative Democrats and 100% among liberal, moderate and conservative Independents in my social circle -- all of whom know that the drug war is and always will be a complete repudiation of science, common sense and compassion.

In fact, if Obama had instead taken the advice of everyone (except the drug-worrying farces of evil) and reclassified medical cannabis to make it more available and out from under the DEA's ass, he would have picked up at least three Republican votes in that same social circle.

Pity that someone who was ushered in with such good hopes could do such a good job of dashing them. Hope? Change? Bull. Shit.

[robcon]

47. I think the drug war is not a vital issue to the vast majority of Democrats.

I think he's lost no support because of it. Democrats will vote for the president in 2012.

[Fly by night]

51. You could not be more wrong.

Over 75% of Democrats in opinion polls agree that it is long overdue to end the drug war. Anyone who is actually paying attention would know that.

[Mimosa]

55. True. How many young Americans -minorities esp- get criminalised for no reason?

I don't do drugs. But I have seen the lives wrecked by the stupid war on drugs. Even conservatives like William F. Buckley repeatedly said the war on drugs was pointless and destructive. I guess in the lack of *real jobs* somebody is making money on it. *grrr*

[Name removed]

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