Obama seeks highest base defense budget since WWII.

[Vattel]

The FY 2012 base defense budget proposed by the Obama administration would grow the base defense budget beyond its FY 2010 peak to the highest level in inflation-adjusted dollars since World War II, exceeding the previous peak in defense spending in FY 1985 of $531 billion (in FY 2012 dollars). By the way, he's asking for $553 billion.

[ClarkUSA]

1. Link?

[Vattel]

2. Sorry, forgot to put it in.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/60350193/6/Iraq-and-Afghanistan

[Cali_Democrat]

5. The "base defense budget in the FY 2012 request is the highest level since World War II"

[Vattel]

8. Doh! I fixed it. Thx.

[Cali_Democrat]

9. Well....in World War 2

We were actually in a real World War against major industrialized countries with many millions of people mobilized in our military infrastructure.

You would imagine that the base defense budget request would be pretty high :hi:

[lumberjack_jeff]

3. link

http://www.csbaonline.org/publications/2011/07/analysis-of-the-fy2012-defense-budget/

The FY 2012 budget requests a total of $676 billion for the Department of Defense (DoD). The base budget for DoD includes $553 billion in discretionary funding and $5 billion in mandatory funding, and an additional $118 billion is requested for the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. The budget request also includes $19 billion for defense-related atomic energy programs and $8 billion for defense-related activities in other agencies, bringing the total national defense budget to $703 billion. Separately, the budget includes $129 billion for veterans’ benefits and services through the Department of Veterans Affairs.
The FY 2012 request grows the base defense budget by 3.0 percent in real terms from the level enacted in FY 2011. The war funding requested for FY 2012 is 27 percent less than the amount enacted for FY 2011, bringing it to the lowest level seen since FY 2005. The Future Years Defense Program (FYDP) submitted with the budget projects continued growth in the base defense budget through FY 2016, albeit at a slower rate than previously projected. The Department’s cumulative base budget over the FY 2012 FYDP is $78 billion less (in then-year dollars) than planned in the FY 2011 FYDP, a 2.6 percent reduction. While still allowing the base budget to grow, this represents the first significant reduction from one year’s FYDP to the next since FY 1996.

Adjusting for inflation, the level of funding proposed for the base defense budget in the FY 2012 request is the highest level since World War II, surpassing the Cold War peak of $531 billion (in FY 2012 dollars) reached in FY 1985. However, total national defense spending as a percent of GDP (measured using outlays rather than budget authority) is 4.7 percent in the FY 2012 budget request, below the post-World War II average of 6.3 percent. When measured as a fraction of overall federal government spending, national defense funding is 19 percent of the FY 2012 request, compared to an average level of 21 percent since FY 1976. Together, these three metrics indicate that defense spending is at a high level by historical standards but is affordable given the size of the U.S. economy and is consistent with modern-day norms as a portion of overall federal spending.

[Vattel]

7. Thanks.

Personally I just don't see the relevance of defense spending as a percent of GDP. People use that measure only because it makes it seem that we are spending less on defense. It is also worth noting that estimates of defense spending usually omit things like veterans affairs even though that is essentially paying for past defense activities. And the analysis you quote doesn't include as defense spending things like Obama's FY 2012 request for $55 billion to fund our national intelligence programs. (If the CIA and the NSA aren't being used for national defense, then we are in real trouble.)

[Mimosa]

4. This is why we can't have good things. n/t

[awoke_in_2003]

6. democrats are warriors too...

:sarcasm:

[boppers]

12. FDR and JFK and Clinton, yup.

I think the last Democratic president we had who *didn't* go to war over something might have been Carter. He just invaded countries without their permission.

[awoke_in_2003]

20. JFK was ready...

to pull advisors out of Viet Nam. He was killed, and LBJ went at it balls to the wall. And do not begin to compare Obama and Clinton to FDR- FDR fought for the little man, unlike O and C.

[boppers]

21. As long as the "little man" wasn't Asian?

FDR was a racist piece of shit.

How many US citizens have Obama and Clinton put into camps? A hell of a lot less than FDR.

[ClarkUSA]

10. How much does the estimated projected annum price of fuel figure into these numbers?

A sizable majority of fuel used by the U.S. is not by civilian consumers, but by the armed forces.

Also, considering BushCo was known to fudge their defense budget numbers (as they did everything else), I'd take the "highest" designation with a grain of salt.

[Cali_Democrat]

13. Don't you think the FY 2012 defense budget request is too much?

Especially within the context of the debt ceiling debate?

[ClarkUSA]

16. Unlike those who do otherwise, I'll wait until I see the final budget details.

[Cali_Democrat]

19. You didn't answer my question. I wasn't referring to the final budget which obviously isn't law yet

I'm referring to the request itself from the Obama Administration.

details here ---->>> http://www.scribd.com/doc/60350193/6/Iraq-and-Afghanistan


Do you think THE REQUEST is too much?

[ClarkUSA]

22. Why should I? I'm not a defense expert like you obviously are.

:sarcasm:

Besides, I have yet to hear an answer to my original question: how much does the estimated projected annum price of fuel figure into these numbers?

[Cali_Democrat]

26. According to this article.....

The Pentagon spends roughly $16 billion annually on fuel ---->>>>http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=5934795

Also according to the article, the surge in fuel costs may add $1.5 billion to the total if oil prices maintain their current level throughout the 2011 year. That would mean about $17 billion for 2011.

Compare that figure to the other costs in the defense budget and we're looking at about 2-3% of the total budget spent on fuel annually. Keep in mind that much of the fuel costs go to maintaining forces in Iraq and Afghanistan (they call it Overseas Contingency Operations) as Obama has chosen to maintain forces in those countries.

Now what about my question? Do you think the Obama Administration's 2012 defense budget proposal is too much? I know you won't answer my question directly, but I think I've proven my point.

Thanks for playing :hi:

[ClarkUSA]

27. Like I said before, I'm not a defense expert like you obviously are, so my opinion is irrelevant.

Unlike some people, I don't feel comfortable offering an opinion if I don't know what I'm talking about. If you have a complaint, take it up with the Pentagon. Be sure to tell them what you think they ought to do in your learned opinion. :sarcasm:

[Cali_Democrat]

28. I was interested in your opinion on the FY 2012 defense budget proposal

What do you think about it? I'm curious.

Do you think it's excessive? We're looking at $703 billion in total costs.

[ClarkUSA]

29. Here's my opinion of your nagging me for an opinion. ---->

:boring:









:rofl:

[Name removed]

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[ClarkUSA]

17. WTF are you talking about? Quote me. Do you normally speak in non-sequiturs?

[A Simple Game]

31. Your exactly right. We should be questioning many of these costs.

What with the cost of fuel significantly lower and the greater dependence on drones which have a much lower fuel requirement.

Not to mention less training for the pilots. I could imagine a middle school student being able to pilot a drone. I mean who is more proficient at video games.

You are exactly right, the total request should have been much lower! Good job for pointing that out! Thank you.

[Lorien]

11. Disgusting. nt

[girl gone mad]

15. They get champagne and caviar, we get catfood and peas.

Awesome.

[Name removed]

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[boppers]

24. Spoken like somebody who's never lived on military "food".

Who is the "They" in your statement?

It sure as hell isn't the troops.

[Wait Wut]

33. Low grade.

My son says the caviar is dry and the champagne is watered down. I guess that's what you get when you package it in an MRE.

[Name removed]

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[boppers]

25. Define fraud, please.

If you accuse, try to use correct terms, and make sure others know exactly what you mean.

How is the budget fraud?

[villager]

30. Define "change" please

Because I don't see it in a rightwing wet dream of a budget with record defense spending and the trial ballooning of the "need" for "sacrifice" with the social safety net...

[Name removed]

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