During Bush's terms, the debt limit was raised 7 times.......

[FrenchieCat]

with many, many Republican votes.....



As ThinkProgress pointed out, during the Bush presidency, the current GOP leadership team voted 19 times to increase debt limit. During his tenure, the U.S. national debt doubled, fueled by the Bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003, the Medicare prescription drug plan and the unfunded wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. And Mitch McConnell and John Boehner voted for all of it and the debt which ensued because, as Orrin Hatch later explained:

"It was standard practice not to pay for things."
http://crooksandliars.com/jon-perr/10-inconvenient-truths-about-debt-ceiling




Why aren't Democrats (including us)spreading that fact to everyone and their mother,
and contacting the media to ask them why this fact isn't part of their debt limit refrain,
and attacking Republicans hard and forcefully on these facts 24/7?

Is it really up to someone else, but not us? Cause that's what it feels like! :shrug:

Do we really have anything better to do besides working hard to
make sure public opinion understands the history of the bullshit
we are currently witnessing from Republican asshole Hypocrites?

Personally, I don't think so.

[hedgehog]

1. Sad to say, the Republicans would use that fact to prove that we need to draw a line

on borrowing any more money. It's hard to argue with the reality impaired.

[FrenchieCat]

2. So I suggest that we give the counter argument

that being a blatant hypocrite who chooses to makes new rules
that are politically convenient even if it means
that our country goes down in flames does not a patriot make!

[hedgehog]

5. I think that calling them out on this is a way to reach the great middle

too busy to pay attention to what's going on.

[Frustratedlady]

6. You said...

"if it means that our country goes down in flames does not a patriot make!"

I've tried to come up with what this GOP Congress has been since Obama took office, but some words don't cut it. They are far from patriots, for sure. Traitors? Treasonous? Hmmm! Right on the tip of my tongue.

Then, I got to thinking about one of bin Laden's statements about sitting back and watching us bankrupt our economy and I thought...BINGO! What's the difference between the GOP legislators and bin Laden? A few years? Bush almost did bin Laden's job for him, then handed the debt over to Obama to clean up...hoping everyone would forget he got the ball rolling. Don't forget the banks that almost collapsed before Obama won the election.

Are their actions that much different from bin Laden? We have people terrified of losing their homes, can't feed their families, don't have health care. What's the difference? No suicide bombers? Yet?

Think about it!

[Sheepshank]

3. I asked some Republicans this very same question. Their response?

"We don't raise it NOW, because NOW we have to reign in spending" And they don't see anything wrong with that response.

[Ganja Ninja]

4. And he didn't have to cut spending one bit to get it done.

Why can't Obama and the rest of the Democrats understand that? The Republicans are bluffing. They need to call their bluff. In fact they need to do more than that. They need to make the GOP raise the debt ceiling all by themselves or with only a small minority of Democratic help. The GOP is playing chicken, make them chicken out by not allowing any short term extensions and not helping to pass any long term extensions unless it's with only a very few Democratic votes. The GOP is not going to let the bankers down.

[FrenchieCat]

7. So what are we doing about it?

is our only job to criticize Democrats within our quaint echo chamber and nothing more?
How does that make us better than Obama and them that you so rigteously criticize?
He asked for our help more than once....
and I don't think he meant simply pointing the finger at him all of the fucking time!

[Ganja Ninja]

9. What does he need? Can I loan him a spine?

I voted for him. I contributed to his campaign. What else does he want from me? Am I suppose to sit here all day like some people and troll on his behalf? Should I go break Mitch McConnell's legs? What exactly am I suppose to do for Obama that will make it possible for him to face down the big bad GOP?

[Igel]

8. What's missing is the comparison.

Usually high (R) votes meant 1-2 (D) votes--thus allowing the countercharge that (D)s really didn't like debt ceiling increases. The real correlation is that (R) like supporting (R) presidents, and (D) like supporting (D) presidents--members of one's political tribe are cut a lot more slack than members of the enemy tribe.

When the number of (R) votes was low--2007, for example--you get a lot of (D) votes, as well. There's a drop-off in 2007 and 2008 as the debt increased. Then again, that was also when the Senate changed hands, IIRC, so in this case the Senate had fewer (R) but also required some crucial (D) votes.

I think it's worth noting that there were 7 increases in 8 years, with a couple of those involving recession stimulus and another involving TARP. Their average was about $0.77 trillion. That's a lot. $5.37 trillion in 8 years.

The current proposal is for around $2.4 trillion, enough to last through 2012. You'd think. But it pushes the average of 4 debt ceiling increases since the last inauguration up to over $1 trillion each--and that's 4 in 3 years. $5.38 trillion or so in 3 years (let's make it 4 years, rounding up to a whole term, and since the bill's not actually passed not get picky about whether the actual number is 5.32 or 5.42--it's just pretty close to the same). In other words, it looks like the rate of indebtedness will double, but double the horrendous rate under * is now quite acceptable under Obama.

Even with inflation, that's quite a change, just not one I hoped for. Lack of an approved budget and out-of-control deficits were a selling point for (D) in 2006 and esp. 2008. It's one I liked.

[Logical]

10. So are you OK with Obama giving the GOP what they want to raise it???

[bigwillq]

11. Rachel Maddow showed the first chart

on her show the other night. Interesting chart.

K and R