Is the Obama admin lying about his 1996 gay marriage support, or did an aide forge his response?

[Very_Boring_Name]

Based on Dan Pfeiffer's insistence that a staffer forged his answers.

[Unvanguard]

1. When challenged at a recent press conference, the Press Secretary admitted that Obama signed it.

They're not lying (and Pfeiffer never actually said that he didn't sign it, just that he didn't fill it out himself, which is probably true.) They're just being evasive.

[Very_Boring_Name]

2. Semantics. Besides, I said "response" not "signature"

[Unvanguard]

3. You used the word "forged" and include a reference to his "signature" in your second poll option.

Writing up a series of responses for a candidate, which he then approves and signs, is not even remotely forgery. There is more than enough ground to criticize Obama on this issue without distorting what the Administration has actually said on the topic.

[Very_Boring_Name]

4. There are 4 possibilities, all of which make your argument irrelevent

#1- Obama wrote the response, and his aid forged his signature (in which case, the response was still written by Obama and clearly represented his view)
#2- An aide forged the response, and Obama signed it (in doing so gave his approval to the response)
#3- Obama wrote both the response, and signed it (self explanatory)
#4- An aide forged both the response and the signature (coincidentally the aide's handwriting matched Obama's to the letter)

[Unvanguard]

5. #2 is almost certainly the case, if you replaced "forged" with "wrote."

I'm not sure how that makes my argument "irrelevant." It remains the case that the Obama Administration has not lied (they have just stubbornly refused to admit what is plainly obvious but quite embarrassing for them) and your poll is extremely misleading.

Edit: #3 is also possible given that the White House said that Pfeiffer was mistaken (without clarifying how.)

[Vanje]

15. #5

Obama signed it with his right hand, while with his left hand, he crossed his fingers, nullifying the signature.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NorthCarolina]

7. Autopen maybe?? nt

[boppers]

8. Know what a false dilemma is?

Lets take a poll: Are frogs really A) turtles OR b) snakes.

[ZombieHorde]

27. What would be a more accurate assassment of the situation? nt

[Cali_Democrat]

9. I don't understand why Obama would want to lie about this

Wouldn't signing it be a good thing showing he supports gay marriage?

This is baffling to me.

[Unvanguard]

10. The problem is that he clearly supported gay marriage in 1996

but now refuses to say that he supports it, and has said for the past several years that he only supports civil unions and thinks marriage is between a man and a woman.

[Unvanguard]

11. Duplicate. n/t

[Hippo_Tron]

13. Because politicians don't want to admit they do things for political expediency

Voters always claim that they want "strong leaders" and people who take "principled stands". Of course they always seem to vote for people who say they are taking principled stands and coincidentally those stands are in line with the majority opinion at the time.

[Hippo_Tron]

12. I'd actually like to see Obama admit that he changed his mind for political reasons

Something along the lines of...

"Look, sometimes in a democracy elected officials have to do what the majority wants, or the majority will elect somebody else who will do it anyway."

But the fact is that people don't want politicians who admit they are followers. Of course, they don't want actual leaders either. They want people who claim to be leaders and somehow magically have the same positions as the majority of the country.

[girl_interrupted]

14. Think He's lying, however

he can claify his position when he comes to NY on Thursday. Either he's for it or not. Simple.

[Tx4obama]

16. Jay Carney already said that Dan Pfeiffer didn't have any knowledge of the questionaire in question.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/final-answer-president-obama-did-fill-out-1996-questionnaire-supporting-gay-marriage/

[AtomicKitten]

17. "longstanding controversy" = regurgitated horseshit

Seriously, who really cares about this minutia? Nobody, not really, yet stuff like this is regurgitated over and over again as a vehicle to kvetch and accuse and generally wallow in the SSDD.

[dsc]

19. some of us, those for whom this issue is important, would like an honest answer

as to Obama's position on this issue. Frankly we haven't been getting one and we deserve it.

[AtomicKitten]

22. Stop the pretense; he's given you an answer.

I understand you don't like the answer but you know where he stands on this particular issue. Civil unions - yes. Gay marriage - no, not yet at least. Advocate for it but stop pretending you don't know where he stands.

[dsc]

23. actually we dont know where he stands

and it is thanks to him "I am evolving" is his construct not mine. He wants to have it both ways instead of just being honest and saying drop dead it is civil unions or nothing. It is his insistence on having things both ways that has him in the mess he is in.

[AtomicKitten]

25. That's not both ways, it's an honest assessment of where he stands today.

If you feel more confident in his stated position of no to gay marriage, there's your definitive answer. Advocacy is hard work. If you choose not to be hopeful, that's your prerogative.

[ProSense]

18. Breaking

2008 controvery

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dsc]

21. this is a totally different questionairre

so your link is irrelevent.

[ProSense]

24. Nonsense

1996 questionnaire, staff filled it out, Obama signed. Same damn controversy.

It's like grasping at straws.

[dsc]

26. your article doesn't mention a single solitary word about same sex marriage

and the questionaire we have been discussing was issued by a different group of people (Chicago's gay news paper back in 96 and a group called Impact). This is by some reform group. It is a different survey, though the same dishonest excuse given as to why it wasn't true but a completely different survey. You are just plain wrong.