The bar has been set. Vitter didn't resign, so neither should Wiener. Plain and simple.

[RBInMaine]

Vitter shagged DC Madam prostitutes lord knows how many times. He broke the law. He dipped his wick repeatedly. Wiener did neither. Vitter apparently re-acquainted himself with Jesus, didn't resign, and has even been re-elected. Where was the clammering for him to resign? He did MUCH worse.

When people start shouting for Vitter to resign, then I'll listen to those asking Wiener to do so. Until then, Wiener should do as he and his family and his constituents see fit.

(* Others who did worse and didn't resign: Clinton, that SC Gov., the bathroom foot-tapping Senator from Idaho, Thomas Jefferson, and Ben Franklin. Others who had affairs but are doing just fine today in the eyes of history or today's public include John McCain, Newt Gingrich, JFK, FDR, and very possibly George HW Bush. And then there is also Clarence Thomas who certainly perjured himself in his nomination hearings and has been on the highest court in the land ever since even though he is a confirmed serial sexual harasser who talked at length about raunchy sexual topics including beastiality. Talk about "having issues".)

[baldguy]

1. +1000

[LAGC]

2. Since when do we lower ourselves to the bar that Republicans set?

Aren't we better than them?

[RBInMaine]

4. So you like bullshit unfair double standards? Also, Clinton didn't resign either. He's a DEM. This

clammering for Wiener to resign is total crap. If it is ok for MANY not to resign after having done WORSE, then NO, you don't set double standards.

[LAGC]

7. Part of the reason Gore lost in 2000 had to do with Clinton's stubbornness after caught lying.

Guilt by association. That's why Gore was so reluctant to trot Clinton out on the campaign trail.

That election should have never been close enough to steal.

[KeepItReal]

11. Wrong. Gore distanced himself from a popular President

Huge mistake.

Those Clinton haters were not gonna vote for Al Gore anyway.

[LAGC]

15. True, but many independents and seniors were turned off and simply didn't bother showing up.

For some people, politicians having ethics and not blatantly lying matters.

[bahrbearian]

12. I always thought it was because of Nader...

no one seems to mind the the Supreme Court stopped the count though.

[RBInMaine]

17. Hogwash. Gore was not Clinton and not as good a campaigner. If Clinton could have run a 3rd time

he'd have beaten W like a steel drum. Gore WON the election and lost the Republican SCOTUS vote. Enough said about that.

[baldguy]

27. Gore didn't lose in 2000.

And Clinton had a 63% approval rating when he left office. One of the main reasons why they were able to steal the election is because Gore didn't allow Clinton to campaign for him.

Remember: The Republican spin on every story is a lie.

[hack89]

29. What's wrong with high standards?

how is acting like Republicans going to make America a better place? Don't we represent what is good in America?

[RBInMaine]

46. How is caving and knuckling under and allowing yourself to be asswhipped with double standards time

and time again going to help America, and our party, and anything? How is allowing the corporate media to lead you by the nose and make you swallow double standards going to help the country? Go ahead. Let the Republicans win again. Let the corporate media win again. Let Republicans who do worse get off scot free while a Democrat gets beaten up with double standards. Now there's a good plan. Why don't you just bend over like the guy in Animal House and let the Republicans and corporate media pound your ass with a wooden bat as you cry out, THANK YOU SIR, MAY I HAVE ANOTHER.

[hack89]

49. I have just one standard - so should you

if America wants more Republicans, let them vote for real Republicans. I am a Democrat for real reasons - not just to "win".

[RBInMaine]

68. I have just one standard, so should you: what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

[bluethruandthru]

51. +10000

We need to accept the fact that everyone has "issues" and everyone has skeletons in their closets..and everyone is NOT perfect. I honestly don't care about a politician's sex life. I care about how they stand on issues...and whether or not they are owned by lobbyists.
If we shun everyone who hasn't led a squeaky clean life that can be scrutinized under a microscope from politics....who will be our leaders?
As long as the politician is representing the best interests of his or her constituents in congress...I don't care what they're doing in the bedroom/bathroom, whatever.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

23. What standard exactly do you suggest we set?

Eating our own at the slightest whiff of impropriety? If Weiner goes, then the next Democratic Congressman (or woman) whose private explicit/suggestive pics (or text or video) that somehow get out there somewhere on the intertubes (and don't involve any illegal activity) will have to go too, right- regardless of the opinion of his or her constituents? I'll stipulate that Weiner was a schmuck for doing what he did and he made a total mess of how he handled it but if we had anything remotely resembling a sane and responsible press in this country and did not allow itself to get "distracted" (and distract the rest of us) so easily, then we'd (hopefully) be back to talking about the economy and Ryancare and other things that are WAAAAAAY more important than what Weiner did.
:banghead: :puke:

[Myrina]

57. +1000

Exactly. Haven't we let the fear of the GOP dictate what we do long enough? There's an old saying: "You gotta stand for something or you'll fall or anything." The GOP is betting on the Dems never standing up to them.

[RBInMaine]

69. 10-4 ! Spot on perfect. THANKS.

[DCBob]

3. That's not the bar Democrats want to set.

If GOPers want to that's their business.

[RBInMaine]

6. No, Dems should act like cowards and take ass-whippings with double standards, AGAIN. BTW, CLINTON

didn't resign either. He's a DEM last I knew.

[DCBob]

9. Not the same situation at all.. and you know it.

[bahrbearian]

Your right it was about actual sex, adultery and lying.

[DCBob]

16. Actually most people can relate to affairs and adultery...

but what weiner did seems bizarre and obscene and perverse.

[RBInMaine]

21. Clinton and the bj's, stains, and cigars not perverse? Thomas and beastiality talk not perverse?

The SC gov making up some nutty story about being on the Appalachian Trail when he was way down in Argentina humping his mistress not bigtime weird? Vitter shagging DC hookers serially not perverse? The Idaho foot-tapper seeking gay sex in a bathroom not "perverse" in the eyes of MANY? John Ensign didn't resign for a long time after he had an affair with his own good friend's wife then did payoffs to cover it up. Not perverse and weird?? Give me a break.

[DCBob]

22. There are no comparisons to what Weiner did.. its a quite unique situation.

[RBInMaine]

44. Oh horseshit. "No comparisons."???? Bullshit. What a caver you are.

[RBInMaine]

14. That's right. Vitter and Clinton both actually dipped their wicks. Wiener didn't. Yes, Wiener lied

So did Clinton. Vitter lived a lie for god knows how long, and as a hooker John broke the law. Wiener did not. Tell me how what Wiener did is so much more "evil" that what so many others have done. The SC gov LIED about his whereabouts and what he was doing. The foot tapper LIED about the foot tapping.
Thomas LIED to the judiciary committee. You are riddled with double-standard-itis.

[DCBob]

19. what Weiner was doing is not seen by most people as normal sexual exploits..

at least not yet.. maybe someday it will be. I guess Weiner is just ahead of his time.. a real "progressive"... in all manners.

[RBInMaine]

63. And vitter, as a Congressman, was just "normally" shagging DC Madam hookers?

[Dawgs]

75. Uh, what he did is fairly common. At least among men.

And, it certainly was harmless - and consensual.

[rhett o rick]

20. I agree on one condition, that the Dems call out the bastard Repubs that dont resign.

What I mean is that Dems should use "Family Values" and flaunt that they insist that one of their own resign while pointing out the other side doesnt.

[DCBob]

25. I think they do up to a point but..

I think most congressman see it as each party's leadership responsibility for disciplining their own.

[HockeyMom]

5. Having lived in his district (Queens part)

I would have said, no, no, no don't resign.

[RBInMaine]

8. Please email him and/or call and ask him to stand firm. Thanks.

[Bryan]

31. Why should he have to be asked to stand firm?

Why should anyone do for him what he won't do for himself? Why isn't Weiner getting in front of every mic he can find to assert that he's being treated unfairly and spitting fire at Breitbart, the press, his caucus, and everyone within range instead of dragging his ass to a press conference and pretending to be the picture of tearful rectitude? No Democrat should be burning credibility on getting the back of this mendacious candyass.

[SpiralHawk]

10. Vitter had the Republicon Diaper Lobby backing him up

So that eliMINated a, um, major load of, um, pressure.

[kayakjohnny]

13. ....

:spray:

[Scottybeamer70]

18. Thank you

rec.

[femrap]

24. I hate Vitter.

Hey, just a thought. Dudes just can't seem to control their 'minds' so possibly they should be delegated to heavy physical labor while the women do the mindful work of gov't, finances, policy, etc.

Psychologists have determined that males think of sex every 7 seconds....not someone a rational person would want leading a nation or running a bank.

[Jakes Progress]

26. President Obama disagrees with you.

Whoops.

[frylock]

30. yeh, that must have a lot of heads around here exploding

[Jakes Progress]

34. That's what people get for having an opinion

before they get permission.

[RBInMaine]

40. He said he would resign if it was HIM, but he also said Wiener and his constituents and family had

to make the final decision.

[Jakes Progress]

56. Spin Dizzy?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

28. For me, again, if his constituents want him to stay--just as Americans wanted Clinton to stay--

then he should stay. And that's that!

[NorthCarolina]

32. What Vitter did was illegal, so there IS a difference. nt

[Freddie Stubbs]

33. Look at how well that worked out for Republicans

Republicans lost 21 seats in the House and 8 in the Senate the following year.

[RBInMaine]

41. That had nothing to do with it. That was about anger with Bush and the economy. Get real. Do you

actually think a year and a half from now this incident is going to determine the outcome of congressional elections all over the nation? Please. This will be old news in two weeks.

[Freddie Stubbs]

54. It contributed to the impression of a culture of corruption of the GOP

Nancy Pelosi, Chairwoman Wasserman Schultz, and now President Obama recognize this story will go away a lot faster if Weiner goes away. But so far he has been too selfish to do what is best for the party.

[Kaleva]

35. Don't enthrall yourself to the actions of the Repubs. Be bigger then them.

"When people start shouting for Vitter to resign, then I'll listen to those asking Wiener to do so. "

[RBInMaine]

39. I'm not "enthralling" anything. Kindly get the point. I'm saying NO to the double standard. Double

standards do not cut it. Yes, Wiener used very poor judgement. But this was also private behavior, he never had actual affairs, and he didn't break any laws. If you want to sit there and knuckle under to double standards go ahead. I won't. We have a US Senator from Louisiana sitting there who had multiple encounters with DC Madam hookers, and you don't bat an eye. But then you want to crucify Wiener. SHAMEFUL.

[QC]

36. K&R

[boppers]

37. None of those others sent unclothed cock shots while sitting in office.

He did something new.

[RBInMaine]

42. And Wiener didn't hire the DC Madam to arrange liasons with hookers. That was new too.

[Chef Eric]

60. And Wiener didn't shoot a man in the face while on a weekend getaway with his girlfriend. nt

[karynnj]

38. Because Vitter staying was in the interest of the Republicans., Weiner resigning is in our interest

Why?

Had Vitter resigned, the law in LA for the Senate seat is that the then Democratic governor would have named a replacement, who then could run in the next election as an incumbent.

If Weiner resigns, the law in NY for a House seat is a special election that a Democrat is likely to win (even though it is one of the more conservative NYC districts.) It also is likely to be a district that disappears in 2012 with redistricting.

Giving up a Senate seat for any length of time was too high a coat. So, they took the hit and the jokes about Vitter.

[RBInMaine]

43. You miss the point. If it was fine for the voters in Louisiana to decide there, then the same in NY.

NO DOUBLE STANDARDS, PERIOD !

[DCBob]

45. Wow, you are the one missing the point entirelly.. reread karynnj post..

carefully, without blinders.

[RBInMaine]

47. I read the post and disagree with the premise of the post. This is about principles and saying no

to double standards regardless of political expediencies.

[DCBob]

48. You disagree with the facts?

[DCBob]

50. To put in the most blunt and harshest of terms.. Weiner is expendable.

no Democrat in congress will ever say that but I think that is what the bottom line is.

[karynnj]

53. Thanks for saying in 3 words what I failed to get across in long paragraphs

Weiner is expendable.

[RBInMaine]

66. Yeah. Obviously. My point is that I don't give a shit whether or not he's politically "expendable."

That is not the point here. It is about saying no to double standards, corporate media nose-leading, and allowing the democratic process to prevail. Vitter, whose act was far worse, did not get nearly this much corporate media attention. The RePUKES just said, "Pray for his family and let the voters decide." And the voters DID decide and they re-elected him. What don't you get? You can't have two standards. If that approach worked for Vitter, then the same must be allowed Wiener.

[DCBob]

70. We are talking about politics here.. not some utopian fantasy..

and noboody gives a shit what you think is right or wrong... there are political realities to deal with. What dont you get about that??

[karynnj]

52. I was not writing of standards at all - just what was in the PERCEIVED interest of each party at

the time.

What is clear is that NO ONE can make someone resign unless they go through the ethics process and vote to throw him/her out. This almost never happens - no matter what party. There is little likelihood that Weiner will be forced out in that sense of the word.

As to people in power in your own party suggesting you leave - in this case including the President, that is based on the interest of the party.

Now, it is possible that Weiner will ignore the calls of his peers to resign and he will win re-election. Because of re-districting, they can make it harder for him by eliminating his district because they have to eliminate one. There is one other source of pressure. They can threaten that it might impact his wife's high powered career.

I did not miss the point - you missed what another poster posted - which was that it was Vitter, Foley, Duke Cunningham etc that allowed the Democrats the opportunity to run on Republican corruption in 2006. I think Iraq was the bigger issue, but both were big and the centrists in the party thought corruption the bigger issue. At any rate, the Republicans lost big in 2006.

The Democrats were finally getting some real traction on Medicare - and the media noticed after NY26. That turned to the permanent Weiner show. You can say that the Democrats are throwing Weiner overboard because he is a net liability, rather than trying to help him through this - as we did Clinton. But, he is no Bill Clinton - he is not President or a leader in the party. His district is also pretty close to 50/50 on this. He is also not innocent. His behavior crossed a line of what is expected of Congressmen.

[RBInMaine]

67. Jesus, as if I didn't "get it" the first however many times. Can you please get the point of this

OP. I am speaking in terms of principles. You are speaking in terms of political expediency. Sure, he could resign and that would make the issue go away faster and a Dem would be appointed and then re-win his seat, and that would be good and better politically... Fine. But the frigging point of the post is to expose and attack the hyprocritical fact of a double standard in how we view this incident. Let the facts be clear as crystal. The Republican Vitter placed his penis inside hookers however many times after soliciting them via the DC Madam. It was illegal. It was vile. It was highly unbecoming "what is expected of a Congressman." Yet there was not nearly such a media feeding frenzy. RePUKE leaders said "Pray for his family and let the voters decide." He re-found Jesus and just got re-elected. Wiener broke no laws, did not actually place his penis inside anyone, and yet all these massive clammers to resign and this media frenzy. Not "pray for his family and let the voters decide." What is the REAL "difference" with Wiener? PICTURES got out. But for the pictures, this would be little more than a passing cocktail party joke. It was private behavior.
I am speaking on principle and don't give a damn about the so called politics of it, as if this one guy controls the fate of the entire party throughout the country and will determine the results of the 2012 elections. Even with all of today's media nonsense, this will fizzle in a few weeks. People will get sick of it. I think it's starting to die down already.
This guy deserves the same ability to make his own decisions, to make amends, and allow his voters to decide, SAME as Vitter and others in scandals who didn't resign.

As to Clinton, I don't think he should have resigned, but he did worse and LIED and I don't give a damn if he was President. A president isn't above the law, and he isn't above social standards. Clinton received bj's next to the Oval Office for pete's sake time and time again and said hell knows what that if had been on tape would have made the devil blush. God knows what he did with those cigars. He ejaculated on the girl's dress. And this girl was what, two decades younger? Say all you want about how he was the President. If there had been a picture of this, you'd be saying the same thing you are now about Wiener. You are stuck on the photo factor. And Vitter and Foley added minimally to the culture of corruption narrative. And 06 was not driven by that narrative anyhow. It was driven by anger with BUSH, plain and simple. 08 was about anger with BUSH and the economy. You are placing WAY more weight on Wiener's wiener than is warranted. As to the Dem leaders saying he should resign, they are doing so to go on record to cover their asses politically. Privately, they don't like it, but they'd just as soon have the voters decide too. In any regard, a month from now people won't give a shit anymore.

[treestar]

55. I have to agree

Though you've sifted out for me part of the Republican's hypocrisy - to them, it makes sense because of Christ's forgiveness, which those godless libruls don't have.

[mstinamotorcity]

58. Happy to

concur!!!

[Ter]

59. Let's talk some common sense straight talk here

Neither did impeachable offenses, so let's get that out of the way. However, both did highly inappropriate things, and both should resign. They don't have to, but things like that don't belong in politics.

[Kaleva]

61. +1

[RBInMaine]

64. Then Clinton should have resigned as well? You're prepared to go there? Be consistent now.

[Ter]

71. Or course he should have resigned

Gore would likely have done better running for re-election in 2000 as well. I'm very consistent. I don't care at all if something comes up that happened before your term in office (like getting arrested for drunken driving or using drugs 20-30 years before you were elected, like Clinton and Bush II). But if you're in office and it happens, resign.

[Phx_Dem]

62. Yeah, we definitely want to hold ourselves to the examples set by Republicans.

If Republicans ignore the pervs, liars, adulters in their party, we should to.

:sarcasm:

[RBInMaine]

65. No, we should bend over and get ass-slapped with double standards and cave to them again. You just

don't get it. It is about saying no to double standards and corporate media nose-leading.

[DCBob]

73. Actually the media would love for this scandal to go on and on and on.. it sells..

If Weiner resigns that gravy train is over.

[cali]

72. this is so ridiculous: "mommy, johnny did it, so why can't I?"

[Sienna86]

74. So we lower our standards to match theirs?

Weiner needs to resign. We can't control how the Republicans discipline their members, but as Democrats, we should hold our elected Democratic officials to certain standards. Even if you believe this is personal behavior, outside-of-work - that we should ignore, you cannot ignore the fact these acts of poor judgment will affect Weiner's ability to get the job done.