I'm sick of this shit: If not Obama 2012, WHO?????

[Keith Bee]

Hillary Clinton? A year ago, I thought it possible. But she's too invested at this point.

Russ Feingold? I'll be glad to vote for him in '16, but not now.

Dennis Kucinich? Please just...just go away and leave me alone.

Hey, I've not been here all that long, but even my far-from-Einsteinian ass knows what happens when a serious primary challenge is mounted against a President. Do you really wanna help the Barbour of Yazoo, Half-Gov Youbetcha, or (Sweet Lo'dy Jesus Save Us!) Congresswoman Batshit into the White House???

:scared:

[pnwmom]

1. Just today someone here said that we should just retreat in 2012

and then aim for a comeback in 2016. Others agreed. So yes, some people here do want to help the Rethugs.

[CakeGrrl]

5. Retreat, as in "Sit back, let Obama lose and come back?"

if that's what people mean, then

:rofl:

I mean, just wow. That's some genius thinking: "Just let the Republicans** take things back for a while, then we'll recharge and get a REAL Progressive in the WH no problemo!"


**as in, the batshit-craziest crop of Republicans I've seen since about...EVER, who would probably send things into the shitter well past recovering in our lifetimes

[derby378]

47. If all those projections in 2005 of the country moving hard right are correct...

"Let the Wookiee win" is the worst strategy I've ever heard in my entire fuckin' life. This isn't Chewbacca or Tarfur we're dealing with here - this is a batshit crazy Wookiee who wants to wreck your refrigerator and play weird shit at full volume way past midnight.

[kjackson227]

80. Sitting back and not voting is a VERY, VERY DANGEROUS...

GAME TO PLAY. These Repugnants are not yesterday's repugnants, they're BEASTS on steriods. If the non-voters want to send years of progression down the drain and think we can come back and reinstate unions, Medicare, Social Security, public education, etc., etc. in 2016- then good luck with that!

[dhill926]

7. WTF??????

[SidDithers]

13. And last week, someone posted that they wish 2008 had gone the other way...

they actually posted that they would have preferred that McCain had won in 2008.

A DUer with almost 15,000 posts. The mind boggles.

Sid

[RichGirl]

16. Posts don't mean anything...

Except maybe that the person has too much free time.

[WiffenPoof]

29. You mean...

...they wanted the Republicans to win? I think they did.

-P

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

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[tavalon]

34. While I don't like that thought I can explain it to you

Sometimes it's actually better to have a clear enemy to fight than a person who pretends to be on your side. This administration has taken a liberal movement that was becoming cohesive and effective and has actively worked to make us non-cohesive and very ineffective. I remember that heady night in 2008 when all of our hard work seemed to have culminated in getting "our" guy in the White House. That said, I am neither blind nor stupid and have watched what they have done since with slowly dawning clarity and horror.

How many years have the left been set back by this seemingly friendly administration? What if we never got played but instead knew just as clearly as we did during the Bush years that we were dealing with a sworn enemy in the White House? See Wisconsin for a taste of what our movement could have been if we weren't derailed by "our" guy.

It's sad if, in fact, the left needs to be in the underdog position to truly show our strength, but I'm starting to wonder.

[RichGirl]

17. Single most insane thing I've every heard.

I don't care who said it...they are not a democrat.

If you look at what the republicans are doing now...with a democratic president...imagine how much damage they could do in four years. Look at what Bush did in eight. We'd be lucky to even still have a vote in 2016.

No democrat could be so ignorant as to think that it would be good stradegy.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

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[elocs]

2. Anyone with even only a tenuous grip on reality has to know it will be Obama.

That being said, DU doesn't really care much for reality.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

11. Obama's a lock in 2012. Feingold in 2016 is fine by me.

[elocs]

22. Being from WI, I would rather see Feingold run against & beat Walker in a recall election next year.

I don't believe he could win the presidency and I don't think he believes it either. He is loved by DU, but nationally he would be a lamb to the slaughter if one is willing to look at reality as it exists rather than living in a wishful fantasy land.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

40. Good idea. Time as Governor would give Feingold an opportunity to impress nationally.

[tblue37]

30. Feingold/Grayson, maybe? nt

[karynnj]

79. Feingold tested the waters for 2008 - and found them frigid

If he could not generate sufficient interest in the pre-primary of 2008 - when the party knew that the winner of the nomination was very likely the winner of the Presidency, I don't think there is a chance in any year that is less obviously a Democratic win.

With the exception of John Kerry, President Obama is the left most Democratic nominee three decades. If you consider this graphically - looking at the number of Democratic primary voters across the political spectrum, Obama's position near the center, but in the left half means that even if you ignore his personal popularity, there are not enough voters who would be closer ideologically to your hypothetical progressive liberal.

[LoZoccolo]

3. Realize this: there is little percieved disincentive to carry out that kind of street theater here.

People raise that kind of a ruckus because they think someone might be listening, and they that there are no consequences to it, especially if few (if any) other people on the Internet know who they are. (In real life there's always the risk of making statements which look silly and getting in arguments with people who really do have an effect on your life.) It's also seen as easier than actually going out and getting people to support what you support and all that.

I believe that's at least part of the reason why Obama's liberal polling is a lot better than you would expect by reading the comments on this or other liberal sites.

I would argue that there are consequences to this charade because it can tie up the time of a lot of people who actually accomplish something politically, and distracts people from information about how to be effective in our political system.

But you and I don't have to get tied up like that.

[femmocrat]

4. No one will challenge him in the primaries.

All of this speculation is just that.

My crystal ball tells me he will be re-elected with a comfortable margin. If they stood half a chance, the repukes would be forming exploratory committees by now. None of them wants to be the sacrificial goat.

[rury]

9. Sacrificial "goat"

:rofl: :rofl:
I totally agree with your point...but I have only heard the term sacrificial lamb, and goat just sounded hilarious to me.

[lib2DaBone]

6. How about Marcy Kaptur and Pete DiFazio.. good strong Progressives...

Real Progressives.. not Blue Dogs....

Oh.. I forgot.. the system won't work unless Goldman-Sachs controls the process... carry on...

[sharp_stick]

8. Do you want to know why they can't do it?

I have no idea who the hell either of them are and if I don't know who the hell they are I'll bet you $1,000 that 98% of the people in this country have no idea who the hell they are.

[lib2DaBone]

14. Whose fault is that? That you don't know what is going on?

Nevermind.. Moot Point....

[sharp_stick]

42. The point being

that people in general don't vote unless they have a clue who the hell they are voting for.

If I have to hunt and peck through all kinds of searches to figure out why exactly your favorite people are progressive champions they either aren't interested in running or they aren't being well represented.

[krawhitham]

10. How about you name somebody that stands a chance

[OhioBlue]

26. you do know that Marcy is against a woman's right to choose

don't you? I love Marcy on economic issues... not so much on social issues.

[JTFrog]

76. Not much progressive or liberal about that now is there? n/t

[frazzled]

12. Get prepared for a full year-and-a-half of it

I mean, do we really have to be discussing anything about an election this far out at all? Once people realize there will be no primary challenger--no, not even Russ Feingold: a twice-divorced Jew from the left who lost his last election is not going to run for president--perhaps they will focus on the Republican primary circus. Or, they will continue to post polls such as "Why do you think Obama will not win in 2012?" for the next 18 months. I may have to go to Costco to buy the supersized bottle of Advil.

Or, maybe I'll go over to the new national campaign office at 1 Prudential Plaza, and see if they need any help.

Or maybe they'll do Elizabeth Taylor week on TCM and I can at least escape a week of this nuttiness.

I honestly don't think I can stand this for 18 months.

How bout them Bulldogs?

[LoZoccolo]

15. Actually, I have it on good authority that Democratic campaigns need database people.

I don't like to give out too much information online about people I know in campaigns and stuff but if you have database or IT skills it seems they really need people, and even if you don't, they still need people because this person was also talking about the things they do to maintain volunteer lists and stuff and it seemed like they put a lot of effort in getting people involved.

What's funny is that I told the person who told me this about what kind of shenanigans happen on liberal websites with relation to elected Democrats and he didn't know much about it; maybe some good hard campaign work does help get your mind off this stuff!

[frazzled]

19. I'm no computer genius, but I can input data

I've spent many election cycles working phone banks and canvassing. I'd really like not to do that anymore. Young people, please step up.

That's why I might put my hat in the ring early, if my schedule permits, so maybe I can get some desk work instead. I have had zero time to do electioneering this past fall (senatorial and other elections) and winter (our mayoral and aldermanic elections) because I've been working 18 hour days for the last six months. But things are dying down a bit, and it will get me away from my computer at home.

[BlueIris]

18. It can and should be anyone else.

He does not deserve renomination.

[CakeGrrl]

20. So what are you waiting for? Go find and support "anyone else".

On edit: Yet another non-answer to a plainly-put question. WHO is this more deserving candidate going to be? Realistically?

Still waiting for a reality-based answer.

[kstewart33]

21. Why waste energy on pure fantasy?

To anyone who is trying to pump up a Dem challenger to Obama, please go gin up another fantasy.

You don't like him? Before trashing him, take a look at his entire record. And then compare what you don't like with what he said during his campaign. Yes, he broke some promises, but he kept far more than he broke.

I like intelligence, discipline, and courage in the office. And he fits.

Like Mr. Bee said, any challenger increases the odds of a Repub winning the office. Think Gore 2000 and the damage that Nader did. And what it cost this country.

[provis99]

23. Senator Ben Nelson from Nebraska.

Because he's more conservative than Kucinich, which should please you.

[Keith Bee]

25. Hmm.....

Most of the replies seem to be in general agreement with me, yet...

Hey, I guess Sylvia was right: No recs for newbies! ;-)

[CakeGrrl]

27. You're being unrecced, IMO, because

there is a significant number of people on this forum who don't want to see President Obama re-elected in 2012 yet they can't answer your question.

[Keith Bee]

28. I think you're exactly right.....

...but isn't "not answering questions" a GOP thing? I mean, you know, ACCEPT TRUTH AS IT IS GIVEN TO YOU, AND SHOOT DOWN THOSE WHOSE OPINIONS DIFFER!

Have I inadvertantly logged on to Freeperville?!? :tinfoilhat:

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ReturnoftheDjedi]

51. indeed, there are a significant number of douchebags around here.

[guruoo]

32. k&r nt

[tavalon]

33. I'd like to reframe that one for you

Do you want a corporate tool who pretends to be on the people's side or a batshit crazy corporate tool who makes no such pretensions toward giving a damn about the electorate?

At first, the answer seems easy enough but then if we look at how liberals were becoming cohesive and successful at their grassroots efforts until Obama was elected and now we're in a shambles and a fair amount of that can be laid at the feet of the Obama administration for squandering their grassroots support and even attacking us in subtle and not so subtle ways. And the abyss we were seeing and trying to avoid when the last batshit crazy corporate tool was in, is not only still there but we're further in but much less vocal about it. After all, "our" team is in the white house, right? Right?

[Keith Bee]

35. You've bought in.....

...

[tavalon]

36. To what?

I agree I bought into Obama but I've had buyers remorse. Probably more than if I had voted third party.

[jimlup]

37. I agree that Obama is the only game in town

But seriously, you are over reaching a bit. As the sig line says ... "Chill, I got this"

[polichick]

38. Some of us are "sick of this shit" too - that's why we'd like a primary challenger...

...who would actually fight for Democratic principles and put the people first.

If there isn't a populist progressive challenger, we'll have more of this shit until people wake up.

[Keith Bee]

43. That's a nice thought

And that's all it will ever be. Do you honestly think that anybody can be elected to the Presidency without selling at least a part of their soul? Power costs, be it ancient Rome or 21st-century America.

[polichick]

44. After a lifetime of Democratic activism, I'm not interested in a party that...

...thinks having a candidate who puts the people ahead of corporate rule is "a nice thought and that's all it will ever be."

If this is where the party stands, it has outlived its usefulness.

[onenote]

46. so where is your populist progressive hero?

Why is that no one has stepped forward? Maybe because they don't view the situation the way you do? In which case, I ask again: where is your populist progressive hero that is willing to step forward and help the people "wake up."

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

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[Scuba]

39. This guy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFabLp-Jcbg

[JoePhilly]

59. Just as soon as the aliens give him the go-ahead.

[creon]

41. Good post

I am glad that it is here.

It is very important to vote. No matter what you think of Obama.

It is very imprtant to have a Democratic majority in Congress and in the state legislatues.

That is where budgets and laws are passed!

[Lindsey]

45. IMHO - President Obama for 2012- people need to get a grip...

I mean really, really?

[creon]

68. yes

They do need to get a grip.

Electing Democrats to Congress and state legislatures is critical.

[GeorgeGist]

49. Slim Pickens

[Enrique]

50. Mitt Romney

the guy who invented Obamacare.

[ReturnoftheDjedi]

53. why even pretend to be a Democrat?

[Enrique]

54. I ask that about Obama all the time

but not here at DU, because it's against the rules.

[ReturnoftheDjedi]

55. Obama is the Head of the Democratic Party. Who are you?

[Enrique]

56. just some guy that disagrees with you about something

and who just alerted your post.

[ReturnoftheDjedi]

57. so let me get this straight. Obama is not a Democrat, but you are??

[Enrique]

60. we're both democrats, as are you

you didn't like what I said about Romney and Obamacare. Ok, I get that. But don't attack me for it.

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

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[elleng]

58. Thanks, Keith. Nothing like a little reasonable thinking to brighten the day!

:thumbsup:
:hi:

[Keith Bee]

73. Go Mountaineers!

(I hope I spelled that right.) ;-)

[TheKentuckian]

61. I think your entire thought process puts the cart before the horse.

If enough of a vacuum is created then someone will fill it.

It wasn't that long ago that a young black man with a name like Barack Hussein Obama would not be seen as "viable" in beltway circles either.

I'm a we create the future type soul, I don't subscribe to the slave of destiny school of thought.

We make our own paths, even when we must use the shovel, the pick, and well placed dynamite to clear it and level the ground.

I'll work for my rep as usual, I'll support local Democrats, but I'll write in Donald fucking Duck before I vote for Obama in a Democratic primary again.
He got it once to repudiate the Third Way but he embraced it and has increased the power and influence of that failed, ill conceived, and largely wicked school of thought.

The best I can offer is a openly resentful vote to repudiate the most absurd of the TeaPubliKlan ideology with a desperate not too much hope that he won't initiate half of it with his insane predilection to chase the mad hatters down the rabbit hole. I can't even promise that but I haven't ruled it out.

Obama's failed ideology will lead us to the same passes as the TeaPubliKlan failed ideology but not as rapidly. It is the direction that I bitterly oppose.
I see the Third Way a whole lot more as Imperial Japan than even the Russians if we make this a WWII analogy. Japan may be better than the Nazis but still completely unacceptable.

We don't need a standard bearer, we need to take up the cause and a front man (or woman) will emerge. If one doesn't then it will demonstrate the scope of the fix.

[Betty Karlson]

62. Obama should be re-elected for positive achievements

Not out of fear for much worse. Are you seriously implying he is the lesser of two evils? If so, than the only difference between you and the Primary Challenge supporters is: the effect expected from a primary challenge, not the assessment of Obama.

[Exilednight]

63. If it's only two people running, then yes, it's the choice of lesser of two evils.

Obama has made small amounts of progress, but he is far from transformational or progressive.

[Betty Karlson]

64. I agree.

My remarks were directed at the OP.

(The slogan "Vote Obama, because the GOP has gone nuts and the independents are irreliable" won't work, I think.)

[ProudDad]

67. "Maybe he'll do the hopey, changie thing after 2012"

Hmmm, that one needs work too... :rofl:

[ProudDad]

65. Forget the Federal Govt.

Relocalize and Secede...

[wndycty]

69. K, I tried to R but its too late

:kick:

[ProudDad]

70. Alfred E Newman

again...

Or his older brother?

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

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[ProudDad]

72. Ya get's no bread with one meat-ball

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mE_xaE6sUK8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV6WpUz4ick

[rpannier]

74. Me

I heard some guy in Texas died and is leaving money for ANYBODY who will run against Obama.
I don't know how much it is, but I can always use a few extra bucks

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

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[karynnj]

77. Obama is a Democrat - and if you split the party in half he would be near the center - likely in the

left half. Look at the Republican response to any of his programs. Saying he is a "a Republican" is as wildly inaccurate as saying he is a "socialist" as many Republicans do.

[Silent3]

78. Because Republicans who call themselves Republicans are WAY further right...

...than people who call themselves Democrats but who act like the kind of moderate Republican that hardly exists any more?

Of course, honest labeling is THE most important thing for the future of this country, so let's gladly welcome the national equivalent of Scott Walker as President so we can have the satisfaction of seeing a correctly-labeled leader. :eyes: