Ed Show bugged me: I may not sound very liberal right now or supportive.

[vaberella]

I am very supportive of the unions and what is going on in the state of Wisconsin and New Jersey and so on and so forth. But...I have to wonder. Why should I be angry for people in other states? How many of them voted for these Governors?! I mean fuckin' really.

Wisconsin: Walker won with 52% (6% difference)
Iowa: Brandstad won with 53% (10% difference)
New Jersey: Christie won with 48.5% (4.4% margin----this was moved to the independent candidate)
Indiana: Daniels won with 57.8% (over 17% of the vote)
Idaho: Otter won with 59.1% (over 20% win)
Ohio: Kasich won with 49% (only 2% against Strickland) <---However the Dems were killed everywhere here.

I mean really. Why should I feel sorry for these people?! I wonder how many Dems sat this out. How many teabaggers twisted this situation and now they, themselves will suffer from their misguided information---which was manipulated by the Republican party currently in power. Why are there Republicans who are now, in hindsight, willing to vote for the Dem in power or could have been in power? Why now?! It's not like these stupid Governors said anything different. This is what they always said they would do. This was their plan. You wanted less spending---this is what he's giving you. You get paid too much fools, so now I'm taking your money. Education? You care about that?! We're taking that away---we spend too much money on it. When you bitched that Obama was spending and the left was saying he's not spending enough---with Republicans feeding off all of this and said yes--he is spending too much. Let's reign that in, now you're paying the price.

Why am I seeing Republicans, Dems who said they wouldn't vote for any Dem or for Obama, now crying over this. This is what you wanted. This is what many of you voted and those of you who didn't vote for---ultimately enabled to win.

I want MSM to interview the Republican teachers who voted for the Repub and ask them what they were thinking. How do they feel now?

Normally I feel sympathetic and I do. But this other side looks at the situation and I'm like. This is not news. Not to mention in the case of Walker---this is absolutely nothing new. Were people so angry at Dems ---that they just didn't bother getting information? Where are the people from his district when he was Mayor (was it?) who could have stood against this and went on television to say this.

And I'm not talking about the Dems who did vote. The people who knew what was going on. But I'm talking about the people who voted for this. Ed asked one of the Dem reps from Ohio, "Is this what Ohio citizens voted for?" The response, "This is not what Ohio people are looking for."

He didn't even answer the question (most politicians don't) but because Kasich is Governor--this is in effect what they voted for. Lordy. I don't know. I realize that I'm going to be blasted here. But seriously---when I look at the voting numbers---all of them were saying the same thing. Why are seeing astonishment that they are following through with their warped plans. They have shown for the past 30-40 years a dislike, contempt, and almost megalomaniac need to control and dominate the American people and destroy what made us who we were. Why are we seeing shock and anger?!

People are ready to blame Obama for not walking the line with unions (who really don't even want him there---not that I would like to see him there since it would take away from the movement). And I respect this movement. But seriously---should the people not bare some responsibility because they voted for this. Obama could not stop it. The people voted for these repubs who were screaming less spending. They got it----the Dems spent to save them and they rejected it. Now the Repubs are following through...

~sigh~ I truly support the movement. And I respect it. I hope that this is remembered for the next couple of decades to ensure the position of democratic/liberal ideals. However, at the same time, I have to say that these people were elected by the citizenry.

**Edited to write the correct name of the Iowa Governor.

[Avalux]

1. All of that is irrelevant. It's time to support unions and our public school system.

That's the bottom line, regardless of whatever misgivings you may have about people in other states, who they voted for or those blaming Obama.

We have reached critical mass.

[vaberella]

14. This is not irrelevant.

This is cyclical. People have a short term memory and I find that they need to buckle down and pay attention to their government and those running for office closely. This happened because people are way to shallow on the issues and not taking the full picture in making decisions. This would never have happened if people seriously paid attention to their candidates.

[karynnj]

28. In NJ there is as much reason to blame the Democratic establishment

Governor Corzine, who was personally unpopular, opted to run a very negative race. I was told very early in the race by a local party person, who I don't think was an insider so it might have been his own speculation, that Corzine would likely go that way because a nasty race would lower turnout and the Democrats had a better get out the vote effort.

I can tell you from phone banking that Corzine gave people little reason to vote for him. There was also no fear of Christie, who was seen as similar to past moderate Republican Governors - like Kean, who is still held in high regard. So, with no positive reason to vote for Corzine - and no negative reason to fear a Christie win, if it happened, people were unmotivated.

Christie did NOT run as the union busting bully. Nor did he run as a RW ideologue. In the Republican primary he was the moderate to tea partyish Steve Lonigan. Lonigan, from his constant ads, was anti-abortion, a global warming denier and he spoke of small budgets. Christie spoke of almost no specifics - in the primary or the general election. (In fact, a major complaint in the NJ local media was that neither Corzine or Christie were articulating any plan of what they would do on the key economic issues.)

Could it have been different?

In hindsight, the thing that could have changed the result would have been for Corzine to have used who he really is and what he had done. When the budget crisis hit, he cut the budget by nearly 20% and did it while continuing to give every town at least as much money as they got the year before and he increased NJ's SCHIP program's coverage. He also cut into the huge debt by eliminating a property tax rebate for those making over $75,000. I was at a meeting in my county with Corzine where he explained that to wealthy Democrats upset by it. Those rebates were a reason I heard from neighbors on why they supported Christie. There was also a "millionaire's tax" bracket that Corzine and the legislator added.

His answer was great - even if not what they wanted to hear. The budget did reflect his (and most or our) values. The cause of the shortfall was that economic crash hit NJ very hard - many NJ people work on Wall street and many have investments. In earlier years, the state revenue was higher because of the huge salaries and bonuses and all the capital gains. The state needed to cut spending and he did a very thoughtful job.

He should have made the CHOICES he made the issue - and he should have defended them.

Now, it is possible he still would have lost, but it would have been a loss where he ran on the real values -- not that Christie was "throwing his weight around". Had Corzine made the choices an issue, Christie might have been forced to identify what his choices would have been. Had this happened, then your comments would be true - people who didn't vote or voted for the independent or Christie, would have voted for what we now have.

At least, we have a solid Democratic majority in both Houses of the legislator. However, Christie has gotten a lot of positive press in the MSM - including a long cover story by Matt Bai in the NYT magazine that could be called fawning - even though he does grudgingly mention that Christie can seem to be a bully. (For about half of NJ, the NYT is a local paper.)

From, many accounts, Walker in Wisconsin never ran on attempting to bust the public unions. (I didn't follow that race, but in the Senate race there, Johnson refused to answer many questions saying that he was not yet in office.) People bought a pig in a poke.

[displacedvermoter]

47. The President said he wanted us all to "look forward' and that

meant not looking backwards at what was done by Bushco. No major investigations, no trials, congressional hearings. The President and the Dem leadership are as much to blame for people's "Short term memory" as the media and the GOP.

[totodeinhere]

49. Good point. n/t

[rury]

58. No, that's. a lousy point...

President Obama campaigned for Democratic gubernatorial candidates and screamed himself hoarse warning the electorate not to "give the keys back" to the Republicans.
Elections have consequences!!

[RBInMaine]

24. Irrelevant? NO WAY ! Grownups learn lessons. The lesson here is VOTE next time !

[YvonneCa]

60. That's a good lesson. But, in the meantime...

...we can't just sit by and watch unions go away without a fight. If we do, we'll be learning other sad lessons from that.

[patrice]

2. A vote "for the other guy" is often nothing more than a protest vote, not

a vote FOR specific policy details.

You're right though, it may take some suffering to get people to become more informed before voting.

[Sanity Claws]

3. Walker didn't run on a promise to bust the unions

Kind of a bait and switch.

[vaberella]

11. I never stated he did.

However he did run stating he would cut the budget and as a Mayor did the same thing he did as Governor. This is not new. He doesn't have to explicitly say anything. People are quick to read Obama's words as code for this or that. However when the Governor actually acts against unions---such as when he fired a slew of security guards to put in contractors---while he was a Mayor should have been fair warning.

[Tansy_Gold]

4. There's really no joy in

"I Told You So."


Okay, they fucked up. They didn't vote and they got stuck with these assholes. Are you gonna sit back and be all sanctimonious on 'em? Or are you gonna tell 'em, "Yeah, you fucked up. You admitted it and you're not gonna do it again, so let's get out there and TOGETHER we'll kick the bastards out once and for all."



TG

[vaberella]

13. Talk about selective reading.

Never did I say, "I told you so." Nor do I think I implied it. I stated very clearly that I support the movement and I hope they get everything they are asking. However, I also have to say that this is a direct mark that we have a group of people who are not educating themselves about the candidates they choose. These Repubs aren't doing anything they didn't say or haven't done in the past and the key thing is that people in their anger, ideology, frustration, or just ignorance are now paying the price because of knee-jerk reactions and not really at what these people are really saying.

[Critters2]

5. Who's Reynolds? Branstad is the governor of Iowa. Still a repuke, but the correct Repuke. nt

[vaberella]

9. Kim Reynolds was Branstad's running mate. Thanks...I'll fix it. n/t

[Marblehead]

6. not to mention

election fraud

[vaberella]

10. I don't know if that's the case for those with a 20% or 17% difference or Ohio's situation. n/t

[TheWraith]

7. 30% of the public will almost always vote Rep. 30% will almost always vote Dem.

And to be frank, the 40% in the middle can be damned stupid, fickle, and shortsighted. They'll vote the opposition in to punish the guys who were in power for 18 months for something that the opposition was responsible for in the first place. They'll vote for somebody who has good hair despite him being a fucking moron.

That's not to say that they can't or don't get things right. They got Obama right, they got 2008 and 2008 right, but they can turn around and give us 2010 just as quickly. But there are literally people out there who voted for Gore, then Bush, then Obama, then for a Republican House, as if they had absolutely no idea what the fuck political beliefs they held, if any.

Don't expect overmuch from the hoopleheads--they can make bad mistakes at times.

[Armstead]

8. Lack of a coherent Democratic message doesn't help

There are right-wing blockheads that will vote against their own interest simply because they are blockheads. Can't reason with 'em, can't get them to even admit that the other side might be partially correct, can't see beyond black-and-white. They can't be won over.

However there are a lot of other people who are at least open to common sense and common decency. They are persuadable, even though it takes work.

The problem regarding them is that they see the Democratic Party in nebulous terms. And much of that is due to the lack of a coherent message or a sense of conviction from too many Democrats....Democrats who are afraid of being clearly liberal and progressive. Democrats who echo the same ideas as Republicans. Worse, democrats who actually ought to be Republicans.

So on one side, you have the GOP, bloated with corporate money, experts at distorting the truth, passionate and looking strong.

On the other side there are....well, too often, non-descript Democrats who do not challenge the funbdamental flaws in CONservatism, who allow themselves to become too beholden to the same oligarchs as the republicans, and who are never going to get to the roots of the problems.

The only way to change that is for the Democratic Party to actually stand for something -- something more than just "We're not the Republicans."

There ARE many Democrats ho do have a great and clear liberal and progressive message, who do stand for principles and are willing to fight for them....Those are the ones who will be capable of turning the tide and getting through to voters.

[applegrove]

12. I'm sure the GOP would be pleased to see us slice and dice up the country so we

don't learn from what is going on elsewhere. Come on! The USA is already isolated from the world (and the way things are done in other Western nations by American MSM) and now you want us to not learn from what the GOP/Teabag/neocons are up to within the USA? I mean look at the police in WI. They see the writing on the wall as unions are attacked and have come out in solidarity with protesters. And right next door in Canada, turns out the RCMP, were put under the neocon 'creative destruction' gun by the civilian appointed by neocon Prime Minister Stephen Harper. Would you not like police around north america to not learn from that fallout (as to what the neocons have in store for police...the civilian neocon police commish just resigned by the way). We should all be learning from other jurisdictions to find out what the cons/repubs/teapartiers are up to. To ignore what is going on in the world immediately around you is to be ignorant. And we cannot have that. Not when the rich & the selfish want to be our overlords.

[vaberella]

16. What are you talking about?

My whole point is that WI and the massive elections all over show a massive ignorance into what the two parties stand for and this sort of knee-jerk reaction to vote for the other party because you think the party in power is ineffective. Then you sign on for seriously detrimental actions and want what they had previously. At this point no Dem would have done what the Repubs are doing now to their constituents. We need to take responsibility for our own ignorance----I respect the fight currently. But I'm thinking about how we were lead to this and I am also seeing how can happen again in the future.

[TheKentuckian]

50. You ignore a principle flaw in the two party system.

If you are dissatisfied then the only option is to vote for the opposition and play the "throw the bums out game", especially in cases where the party crushes primary opposition to prop up a floundering incumbent.

Non-partisans will never buy the less bad argument for any prolonged period.

Voters came our way strong for two cycles and we maintained the status quo so the other guys promised "change" and lots of folks swapped horses and others said fuck it which led to TeaPubliKlans riding the corporate media back into power.

You simply cannot defend or support the current system and turn around and expect "good" decisions over any length of time.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[vaberella]

17. Do I know you or something?! n/t

[ClassWarrior]

18. Probably not. Why do you ask?

NGU.

[vaberella]

36. You talk as though you know me. n/t

[Union Scribe]

19. hahahahahahaha

:D

[Jakes Progress]

20. Find a union member. Ask them what solidarity means.

[vaberella]

21. Did I not say that I am supportive of the movement?

Or do I not make sense here? Did you just read the first part of my statement and thought you understood what I said? My point is about how this sort of situation erupted and how do we keep it from happening again. There's a significant lack of understanding or just a sort of knee-jerk reactions when people feel they are not getting what they want. I'm talking about the people who voted for these Republicans and we get this sort of situation that erupted. Or for those who did not vote. There is a point where some responsibility lies with the citizenry since these people are voted into office and by pretty large margins. This can happen again and again.

[Jakes Progress]

33. I didn't say you weren't. I said ask what solidarity means.

Try a couple of history books. Not the ones the the corporations fund - like school books - but something that discusses how solidarity was the only thing that worked.

A few films: Norma Rae. Matewan. Bound for Glory.

It's not a matter of just supporting those that you like or that agree with you. Solidarity means support. Period.

[RichGirl]

22. Bottom line...if Unions go it hurts all of us.

So saying they deserve it serves no purpose. It's like when a family member screws up. You can be angry at them, but ultimately you help them out any way you can.

Having said that....I think they need to do whatever they can to recall these governors. That would send a powerful message and they could go from complete failure to being heroes.

[YvonneCa]

61. I like your thinking. n/t

[RBInMaine]

23. I have made the SAME observations. Elections have consequences. Not happy? Vote for D's next time!

[RichGirl]

25. EXACTLY!

When are people going to get that!

It frustrates me when the democrats I know personally are constantly looking for that candidate who thinks exactly the way they do! Even though none of us agree 100% on everything! If you want a president who agrees with you on every point, you are going to have to run yourself...it's that simple. If you're not going to do that...then you have two choices. You pick the one who you agree more with more than the other.

Sadly, those who think that Obama is no different than a republican, need to have a crazy governor ruin their lives before they figure out...yes there is a distinct difference.

In my state...we voted for Obama. Then in the governors race our candidate was very conservative. He said he would opt out of the public option...so many dems stayed home. We now have a republican governor. Hope we don't have to pay the price for that.

[seaglass]

44. How simplistic! We voted for Deval Patrick and he is now trying to fuck the unions over.

You better believe elections have consequences. Hope he's not planning to run for any other office in this state.

[Arkana]

62. Deval Patrick? Or Mayor Menino?

Cause to me it seemed like it's a lot more on Menino than it is Patrick.

[seaglass]

65. Why would it be more on Menino if Patrick proposed it? I am

speaking of taking away/diminishing collective bargaining rights in reference to public unions joining the GIC. And yes, I believe Menino is on board with this as are other D's in the Legislature.

[retread]

26. Schadenfreude.

[flpoljunkie]

27. Voters in Wisconsin also 'threw the keys' at R's hoping for jobs, jobs, jobs.

What they, and the rest of us got, was Republicans hell bent on winning in 2012 at all costs--and, who are perfectly willing to stall our economic recovery, toward that end. Remember what Boehner said about the possibility of lost jobs with their budget cuts, 'So be it!'

[seaglass]

29. Conveniently Deval Patrick is missing from your list. n/t

[vaberella]

39. Conveniently? He's doing the same thing?

I'm talking about the states I've heard mentioned on MSNBC where there are political uprisals from the people. I didn't know Massachusetts was having one as well or I would have mentioned him as well. I'm talking about predominantly republicans but I have no problems with Dems added to the list. Something is going on in Rhode Island---but it's a bit more complicated so I omitted it from my list.

[seaglass]

43. Yeah, Deval has proposed taking away collective bargaining rights

for public employees.

My husband is a Firefighter. We voted for Deval. Blame us!

[vaberella]

51. Again...you're not gathering my point.

I realize a good number of people were misled. Someone told me about what went on in New Jersey. I'm speaking about the people who had enough information. Again as I said. In Wisconsin---what Walker is doing is not new. He did this before on several occasions. And such a case---many of the people sat out for voting--considering Obama won the state of Wisconsin before---and a few of the other states listed--but now we have Repubs destroying livelihood. I made it a point to remove several groups of people from the list. Obviously not all of them.

Additionally in my research there is nothing that suggests he's anti-collective bargaining or proposing removing collective bargaining for union members. Can you pass a link in which he talks about it or it has been proposed? I have read many union people don't like what he's doing in regards to charter schools---but that would be a great way for union members---particularly teachers to take over certain schools instead of outside entities. I'm on the fence about charter. In any event, if you can show me some of the articles where he is doing something similar or just like Walker, it would be helpful.

[seaglass]

52. One of your points was Dems who didn't vote enabled the war against unions.

My point is that I am a Dem who voted for a Dem and STILL enabled war against unions.

Did you google Deval Patrick + collective bargaining?

[Arkana]

63. What's happening in Massachusetts is nowhere near what's happening

in Wisconsin.

Patrick has given some lip service to a plan that would give cities and towns more control over municipal employees' health insurance plans. GIC, the Group Insurance Commission, already exists--but costs have gone up because no one's joining it. The plan used to be really good--my parents have it.

[seaglass]

69. So it is OK to take away *some* collective bargaining rights - just not all?

Doesn't really matter if the GIC is good or not, that's not the point.

[GTurck]

30. Always remember...

that it is not total voters but the percentage of those who did vote. A better question would be: How many stayed home because they were mad at Democrats (as the party was reported on by the media) and gave the smaller party the edge? That seems to be the dynamic.
A great many people feel so disenfranchised that voting does not seem worth the effort. Those of us still engaged must give them back the reasons to participate.:*

[DemocracyInaction]

31. Our Tea Party Gov. Won With Only 38% of the Vote---explain that

We had a Dem, an Independent and two other assholes on the ballot and BINGO, Tea Party LePage won with only 38% of the vote---62% did NOT vote for him. The Koch brothers know well how and where to strike. Don't blame the people.

[vaberella]

38. What are you talking about?

What Government---Wisconsin or the US? Can you be a bit more specific.

[rug]

32. Walker won with 52% of a 50% of voter turnout.

26% of eligible adults.

What's going on in Wisconsin has more to do with an assault on the working class than electoral politics.

Campaigns and elections are small and often ineffective measures of political acts that affect people.

[vaberella]

37. Actually...it does matter.

In 2008 around 1,670,000+ people voted for Obama. In the 2010 gubernatorial race---670,000+ were MIA. If that number had voted this time around we'd have a Dem in power. As I stated in my post, this has a root cause. The cause is about the actions of the politicians in power. If there was research done---we'd be aware that Walker did this even when he was Mayor in Wisconsin BEFORE he was Governor. This is really the major problem. Yes, it's an assault on unions---but there is also this sort of disconnect that there is some responsibility to bear when elected officials are put in power. They are not put in power out of air. They just didn't happen to become a Governor or a Mayor. They were voted into power.

Additionally I actually have a problem with the Dems on the run. Yeah, it's a great stance. But I hope when they come back that they are willing to stand there and say they are going to take a pay cut for all the days they did not work. Why? Because this is almost akin to the Republicans shutting down the government. We mock the Republicans who are trying to shut down the federal government and scoff at them in disgust. But this is similar----yes the actions other governmental bodies want to do are disgusting and abhorrent. But there is a political process at hand. Due to what's going on...the government of Wisconsin is relatively shut down.

[totodeinhere]

46. Yes, of course it's an assault on working people. But the GOP won the election.

It doesn't matter what percentage of eligible adults voted. The GOP own. Elections have consequences. If we don't want this kind of thing to happen then we pro labor people need to win those elections. Because if we lose, as happened in Wisconsin, then the winners get to pass the laws whether we like it or not.

[bergie321]

34. I believe

That (as long as the country survives) this will be for the best. The backlash against the far-right fascists will be so great in the upcoming elections, that we will be able to elect some real progressives in areas where the best we could do was a blue dog before.

[vaberella]

35. High-Five!! That's exactly what I'm looking forward to, as well.

I just hope that more progressive officials are running and I want people to ask specific and clear questions to ensure that they are progressives and not wolves in sheep clothing.

[totodeinhere]

48. I have been hearing that for years. But the voters have very short memories.

You better believe that the GOP will be winning more elections in the future. They might not win next time but they will win again at some point. Look at how much shrub screwed things up. People right here at DU were saying the GOP would never win another election. But only two years after shrub left office the GOP took the House and a majority of state governorships and they control a majority of state legislatures. It didn't take the voters long to forget what shrub did. And it won't take them long to forget Wisconsin either.

[ieoeja]

40. I may not sound very liberal right now or supportive.

I am very supportive of the union and what is going on in New Orleans, Virginia and down the Mississippi River. But... I have to wonder. Why should I be angry for people in other states? How many of them want slaves?! I mean fuckin' really.

Georgia: 88% favor slavery
South Carolina: 93% favor slavery
North Carolina: 67% favor slavery
Alabama: 81% favor slavery

I mean really. Why should I feel sorry for these people?!


Sure, it's a good bet the slaves were overwhelmingly opposed to slavery. But then, it's also a good bet that the gov't unions voted overwhelmingly in favor of Democrats. According to your logic, that doesn't matter. Since they are not the political majority within their state, we shouldn't care.

[vaberella]

53. I see this as a strawman.

First off slaves weren't even allowed to vote, since they weren't even counted as human beings to have a vote---for a good couple of decades---century, even? Secondly, there were far more white settlers in America than there were slaves in actuality. I mean to this day Blacks in general make up 11% or so of the population. And further more---minorities in general make up 34% of the population. So I don't know what that has to do with my statement. Rather, I have to question the logic your using in order to counter my point.

Secondly. I never stated that we shouldn't care. Did I not say I'm strongly supportive?! Shoot, I'm getting some of my NGO friends in New York to figure out a way to unionize Non-profit workers. We're not unionized and I have always wanted us to be. So I'm 100% for the union. However, we can see that in a state that Obama won---something went wrong. Some people definitely voted for the Republican because they thought he could do a better job or they just didn't vote at all. Allowing this state to fall into this mess.

My worry is not that we shouldn't care. But I have to wonder if this will be a lesson learned. If people will start making a lot more informed decisions in regards to their political leader or will we fall back to the same mess, time and time again. In WI, the actions of Walker is not new---he did something similar as the Mayor.

[Citizen Worker]

41. This is what happens when there's a dearth of political choices. Build an alternative political

party or prepare for more of the same. Both political parties are beholden to the same sources of money. When a democrat is in power the right rants and raves and moves farther to the right creating political space for the democrats to move ever rightward while telling the working class, "where else are you going to go?" When the republicons are in power taxes are slashed for corporations and the rich with nearly full cooperation from the democrats and we move ever rightward. Both parties favor endless war and Obama demonstrated that when he expanded the war into Pakistan.

It's well past the time we should build a political party that works for the working class.

[Jennicut]

42. Hence, people learn their lesson. At least, I hope they do.

This is what happens when Repubs get in power. Or stay home.
Do I feel bad for the people in these states? For their ignorance, yes. But most of those protesting in Wisconsin probably did vote Dem to begin with.

[vaberella]

54. Exactly. Repubs are just a bad vote ALL the time. n/t

[CitizenLeft]

45. but please feel sorry for those of us who DID vote and got stuck...

...with complete assholes like Kasich. There's a Dem in my office, huge complainer - bitches about everything 24/7 (literally... 24/7. Really). She didn't bother to vote, even though I nagged her. If she says ONE f###ing word in complaint about ANYTHING that goes sour in Ohio, I'm going to smack her upside the head with a "Kasich for Governor" sign. I'm going to make one up just for her. Pisses me off.

:)

[vaberella]

55. Hiya...

I did post clearly that you guys are not the ones I'm speaking too. I know you are paying the price for something beyond your control. I never counted you guys in my statements. But we can't deny there were some Dem voters who just didn't vote even thought they were capable too, for one reason or another. And there was a lack of enthusiasm to vote. Or they didn't vote in order to "punish" the Dems or the President. I mean Ed Schultz is a perfect example of a buffoon doing exactly what I'm talking about. Actually he's advocating it. And yet he wants us to rally for their rights. When you're not supporting the people out there supporting the unions in the first place---what do you want. I can understand being disgruntled but I have yet to see anything significantly negative from Dems or it's leadership against unions. And this sort of mentality by Dems and by Independents is a bit unnerving. Now we see this happen. And even republicans, those who work in the unions must see something is horribly wrong here. But they were willing to go against what might have been better because they're so dead set on ideology, or color of the skin or something.

And the co-worker you're talking about is a perfect example of the people I'm talking about and hence my post. However, I know that many of my fellow liberals who voted the right way or the better way I should say---are also paying the price and I really hurt for you guys. It's unfair. Hopefully from now we'll have people who are more politically aware, more focused on the issues and not shallowly reacting to so much misinformation that this doesn't happen again.

[CitizenLeft]

70. amen

And I can't watch Ed. I can't. He sees no gray area in any argument. It's black and white and that's it.

And hiya back! :hi:

[cooolandrew]

56. This union opposition of Walker is big and has to be suppported to the fullest extent....

Who won and lost is old news right no. Supporting the unions means everything right now.

[quakerboy]

57. On the one hand, sure.

People get what they vote for, excluding any shenanigans(which is far from unlikely in my opinion).

On the other hand, is there enough of our freedom left to survive the results of sitting back and letting people reap what they have sewn?

[ladym55]

59. Let's look at Ohio and Wisconsin

In Ohio, Kasich ran a feel-good, I'll bring jobs back to you campaign .... NOTHING ABOUT UNIONS, NOTHING ABOUT RICH PUBLIC SECTOR EMPLOYEES. He rolled up his shirt sleeves and talked about getting Ohio back to work. Frank LaRose wrapped himself in his military service (and was bankrolled by the federal Republican Party. Cindy McCain came to fund-raise for a STATE SENATOR). They brought this high-price campaign into a state with close to 10% unemployment. I worked phone banks for Strickland and heard over and over. "TED DID NOTHING TO HELP ME!" Trying to reason with them just wasn't working. They were scared.

Wisconsin was the test case for Citizens United. My son lives there and said the outside funding of ads was overwhelming and took out Feingold and Barrett. Walker did NOT run on what he has done. Again, in a high-unemployment state, he promised JOBS, lots and lots of JOBS. And desperate people bought the snake oil.

Truthfully, I'm pissed as all hell that these frightened people voted stupid because their stupid is damaging my life and my son's life.

[sudopod]

64. if you don't want to give a fuck about people being stripped of their rights, then fine.

But don't expect everyone who does to validate your feelings.

[lunatica]

66. Evidently busting unions was never mentioned in their campaigns

Not that politicians lie or anything.

[mochajava666]

67. I'm hardly surprised that you don't get it

[Bluenorthwest]

68. You never sound liberal nor supportive to me.

Why post the obvious?