Are you watching Rachel? Frank Schaeffer is scaring me

[CatWoman]

:scared:

Psalms 109:8, An Ugly Prayer for President

Any time the citizens of a state, particularly a democracy, invoke their faith to pray for the demise of those they oppose politically, we should be concerned. When the call for such prayers becomes one of the most popular Google searches in the country, we should shake, especially those of us who believe in God, prayer and the Bible. Psalm 109, verse 8, went viral this morning in just that way.

Among the world's top Google searches today are phrases that contain the words "Psalms 109 8", and "Psalm 109 8 prayer for Obama". For those of you who may not know that particular verse, it reads "May his days be few, may another take over his position." And before anyone excuses this toxic use of scripture as nothing more than the wish that President Obama not be re-elected to a second term of office, the next verse in the psalm reads, "May his children be orphans and his wife a widow".

http://blog.beliefnet.com/windowsanddoors/2009/11/psalms-1098-an-ugly-prayer-for.html

Schaeffer thinks it's open season on our president.

:scared:

[cliffordu]

1. I hope I don't see one of those. That enraged me beyond all reason.

Fuck the American Taliban.

Fuck them.

[Hissyspit]

17. VIDEO Here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=403386&mesg_id=403386

Working on the transcript.

[CatWoman]

96. thanks Hissy

I've emailed the link far and wide!!

[hlthe2b]

2. Wasn't that just incredible?

Damn... is there nothing we can do to shut this down? He left me terrified as well.

[glinda]

43. Thank goodness for him! Yes... truly horrifying isn't it.

[GillesDeleuze]

73. In-credible: Frank Schaffer

I have a hunch this guy is still working for the dark side. Gets their message across by "being against it." Fucking mole.

[Mosaic]

79. I agree with you, I don't trust him.

He reminds me of another "concerned" person, David Neiwert, who posts outrageous "info" on Crooks and Liars. These bozo's goal seems to be to spread hate propaganda by pretending to be liberals.

[undeterred]

87. I don't think so.

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

92. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hileeopnyn8d]

95. Seriously?

You used the "your mom" comeback?

[GillesDeleuze]

98. this is srs biznes!

[catbyte]

97. I disagree, GillesDeleuze & Mosaic

He seemed genuinely scared and I've got a pretty good bullshit detector. He didn't come across as insincere at all. What did he say that makes you skeptical?

Mr. Schaffer absolutely terrified me last night. I just sat there stunned. I hope I don't see one of those disgusting items because I know I won't be able to keep my mouth shut. A teddy bear, for crying out loud!

Fundamental Christians are one of the biggest threats in the world today. American Taliban was the perfect description for them, and he was absolutely correct to criticize moderate Christians for not speaking out against these freaks. His calling "moderate" Christians hypocrites for whining about "moderate" Muslims not condemning jihadists really needed to be said. At this point, I'm so turned off by religion that I doubt I'll ever step foot in another church again.

:mad: :scared: :puke:


Diane

Anishnabe in MI

[Fire1sKid]

105. Same here

I was briefly under the assumption that it was just me lol.

[Undercurrent]

3. Scary indeed.

He also begs Obama supporters to defend him, and for Dems to stop the snipping and freaking out that he is moving to slow.

I think of Obama's safety every day. The threat is very real.

[JDPriestly]

106. I pray for Obama's safety, but I still disagree with him about many things.

It is my responsibility as a citizen to state my opinion as clearly and fairly as I can. Obama needs to fire his economic team and distance himself from the banking industry. I am happy to see that he and Holder are courageously planning to hold Article III court hearings for the terrorists who committed crimes in the U.S.

We cannot be bullied. None of us can. The extreme right-wing extremist movement is waning.

Last summer I attended a meeting with my congressman which was also attended by some Tea-Baggers. Last Saturday I attended another such event. There were maybe five teabaggers. Their message did not resonate with the crowd. They were hushed by the vast majority of attendees.

Nevertheless, real change is needed -- real economic change. I seriously doubt that Obama's current economic team is up to the challenge of planning or instituting real economic change. If continued, our trade policy will cause serious, serious problems in the U.S. We have to change our trade policy so that Americans have jobs. Lowering the standard of living in our country will only feed the right wing. Obama cannot opt for that easy out. I will continue to speak out on this.

Also, our Constitution does not permit government surveillance of our private lives to the extent that the Bush administration instituted. Finally, torturer is a crime, and those who are involved in it should face prosecution. I'm not talking about soldiers who lose their cool and treat a prisoner unfairly in a minor way. That should not happen, but it will happen in a time of war. What I believe should be punished is the systematic use of techniques to force prisoners to provide information. We guarantee the right to remain silent. Also, since George Washington, we have a deep tradition of treating prisoners of war with utmost respect and humanity. That is how we have made so many friends out of enemies. I had a lot of experiences in Germany with former prisoners of war who were so grateful to the kindness that Americans showed them during their imprisonment in WWII.

These are my issues. I will continue to criticize Obama to the extent that he does not do what I believe is right in these areas.

[Kutjara]

4. It never ceases to amaze me how attached "Christians" are...

...to the pre-Christian parts of the Bible. Genesis, Leviticus, Psalms. All the "jealous God" smitey bits.

There's a word for people who consider the Old Testament to be their sole holy book: Jews. Except Jews generally tend to have a more sane interpretation of those scriptures.

[mopinko]

10. right?

i have made that same comment several times.

[rockymountaindem]

14. "Except Jews generally tend to have a more sane interpretation of those scriptures."

Thanks for noticing :rofl:

:toast:

[the other one]

28. just so you know

The Jews don't consider their Scriptures to be called "The Old Testament," because there is no "New Testament."

The Hebrew Scriptures are called The Tanakh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_Bible#Meaning_of_old_in_Old_Testament

[Kutjara]

33. Thanks. I know.

I was just trying to frame my comments in the context of the Bible.

Your comment is well taken, however.

[villager]

36. Yes we do. Plus we have commentary, Midrash and Talmud

so the tradition is *not* to take the text in Torah/Tanakh (a.k.a. "The Old Testament") *literally* but to "wrestle with God." The way, you know, Jacob did.

[Kutjara]

37. The talmudic tradition has been a major source of cultural strength....

...down the centuries. The ability to stare one's faith in the face and ask it tough questions is an admirable trait. It also shows a great deal of confidence that the faith can sustain questioning without risk of collapse. I often think of this when I encounter rigid ideologues who treat their faith like precious crystal, that will shatter at the first breath of a contrary wind.

[villager]

90. Well put, Kutjara!

Thanks... ;-)

[Recursion]

102. Pre-Reformation, Christians did too

One of the big complaints by the church against Luther giving the laity access to the Bible was along the lines of "You can't let people just read this stuff! They might take it literally!" Actually the medieval period had a lot of brilliant scriptural commentary among Jews, Christians, and Muslims -- in many ways more nuanced and forward looking than the stuff today.

[catbyte]

99. "Smitey bits"

:rofl:

Thanks for the laugh...I needed it. Mr. Schafer completely freaked me out. I've always wondered the same thing--why all the emphasis on the Old Testament? I guess Jesus was just to hippy-dippy, peace/love/dove for the fundie crowd. Bring on the fire and brimstone!!! The pathetic part about this is probably most of these bible-thumping Old Testament-spewing nuts are anti-Semitic.

The evil coming from the Right is just stunning.

Diane

Anishnabe in MI

[Cleita]

5. I've been fearful that he knows he's a bigger target than any

previous President since Kennedy. That's why I believe he is being so cautious and reaching out to the Republicans. I don't think it will help. They don't care about how far to the right he pulls. They want him gone, no matter what. I wish there was a way for all of us to protect him somehow.

[juajen]

20. Honestly, I believe in Angels, and I think we should all be asking

for guardian angels to watch over him night and day, for we are helpless to defeat the idiots that disguise themselves as Christian, when they are similar in every way to the Taliban, and fundamentalist muslims in their maniacal belief in their own superiority.

I remember the horror we all felt when Kennedy was felled; the tears on millions of faces in every walk of life were a running river of desolation, and it didn't end with JFK's assassination. We lost so much more than a President that day, for every man, woman and child in this country knew real fear and the disappointment in our country was palpable. This black part of American history tells its own story. We are no better as a country than those we feel superior to. To end bigotry of every stripe must be a part of our lives so that true compassion for our fellow man must be a daily part of our lives without exception.

We must all remain on guard. I always have an answer ready, that I hope is non-inflammatory to combat the idiocy that comes out of everyday, normal-looking individuals when a discussion is begun about politics. I believe it would have been just as bad if Hillary had won.

May God bless our elegant new President and his charming First Lady, and may Americans of every stripe remain vigilant in their determination that we will not have another President of these United States assassinated.

[Cleita]

41. Oh, I've been on it and not the little guys but the big ones, the

Archangels, Cherubim and Seraphim.

[Mopar151]

49. Just don't call on my wife's guardian angel!

His name is Murphy, and he drinks.....

[rwheeler31]

6. He is right these creeps are inciting violence.

[Raster]

7. We should ALL be scared. American theo-facism is alive and well.

[glinda]

44. my neighbor is one and he refuses to acknowledge my husband and I anymore.

[Bitwit1234]

8. Have you ever in your life seen

such despicable people that belong to the republican party. We live in America but you have to think that most of the people in the rest of the world are more honest, compassionate and intelligent than this party. Instead of being christians we all know what they are and when THEY meet their end of life we know where they will end up. Burning in hell forever...

[movonne]

9. I hope there is a u tube done on this segment ...we must stand

up and defend our president...

[Pirate Smile]

11. Reminds me of Friedman saying it feels like it did in Israel before Rabin was killed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/30/opinion/30friedman.html

I appreciate the fact that he mentioned that people need to support him because he has a lot of enemies. Sometimes it feels like he is being attacked from all sides almost all the time.

[Sukie]

15. That is what pains me the most. I truly believe that Obama

wants only the best for this country. For his own children. He has put his life in jeopardy because he believes he can accomplish getting this country on the road to recovery, but he thought he had so much more support than he seems to get. I don't know. Maybe DU is not our best tool in measuring that support. Maybe we just have a lot of unhappy liberals here who rant a lot, but much of the stuff I have read here lately just doesn't seem helpful.

[Angry Dragon]

12. I said it before on here and I will say it again

the Catholic Church has declared war on this country by ignoring the Constitution of this country. They are a foreign city, a foreign state, a foreign government. If any other government did that we would not allow it. They hide behind god.

The other right leaning churches are just following suit. Why not no one says anything to them for fear of them just yelling that someone is attacking god.

Until the churches that believe in a god of love, compassion, tolerance, and try to separate church from state, stand up and say something it will not change. What I see is a bigger fight over religion in this country than a fight between the political parties. You may say that the out of hand ones are on the right and you may be correct but they still are attacking the other churches that are silent.

[gateley]

27. I don't think the Catholic Church has nearly the power it once had --

it's becoming pretty impotent IMO.

But I'm with you on their (all churches) teaching God Loves You, BUT... They're just into controlling people.

[glinda]

45. That's why Pope "evil eyes" is teaming up with Evangelicals. He wants more power.

[gateley]

48. They all want more power. Always.

Hadn't heard Pope evil eyes -- that's funny! :hi:

[glinda]

78. At Pope John Paul's funeral, when people chanted "Sainthood", Bennie turned his head

and looked backed, paused, and GLARED. I swear it. GLARED. I was taken aback at seeing this. He also touts "Evangelizing" big time now. I am deeply saddened, as I grew up Catholic and although have left the Church, had hoped for better from them. His marketing schemes appear to want to pull in as many people as possible and the super extreme turn to the right politically shows his greed, weakness and hostility toward others. That is why I call him "Evil eyes".

[vaberella]

58. It's not JUST the Catholic Church. The Christian group is made up of many crazy zealots. n/t

[ChiciB1]

101. I MUST Reply To The Comment About The Catholic Church... I Myself

was ONCE a very devout Catholic, but left a long time ago for my own reasons. I have FIVE sisters and love them all, but the ONE that scares me the most regarding politics is the one who lives in Texas and IS NO LONGER A CATHOLIC HERSELF. From what I can gather she became a Presbyterian, but my other sister told me she was a "fundamentalist one." Whatever that means.

When we have our yearly reunion we DON'T talk politics but there are times comments are made. But the one in Texas is constantly sending me awful email about Obama. I have learned to ignore it because she knows that I'm THE ONE in the family who is very politically active, on the other side. She's a die hard Bushite!! We get along very well, but the lines are drawn about certain things. She knows my very strong views and I know hers and of the 6 of us we had always been the closest. Now that we're older we have all kind of blended together

Now to the Catholic side of my sisters... THREE of them ARE Democrats and voted for Obama, and they are still VERY CATHOLIC, one extremely so and is also Pro-Choice! One sister is sort of Catholic but doesn't attend mass and is pretty much a-political, probably an Independent but I can't say for sure because she kind of doesn't pay much attention one way or the other. She's always happy go lucky! Go figure! Maybe that's a good thing for one's psyche!

I know my Catholic sisters aren't filled with the kind of hate we have been seeing and NONE of them would condone this type of action. In fact they have made comments about how crazy they are.

So what I'm saying is, there are Catholics and there are Catholics, so as with anything all can't be lumped together. However, I will agree that too many Christian types think they have ALL the answers and the "word of God" rules all!

That's why I guess I'm either an agnostic or atheist, not sure which... I believe in what used to be called Karma and what I can see and feel. I can see the sun, the moon, the stars, the trees, the animals etc. I KNOW they exist and I know sometimes things seem to have some type of intervention when someone or something is spared a disaster and others meet a tragic end. I DON'T have answers, but I'm not sure where the answers come from. I know in my heart I try to help others less fortunate, and animals make my heart melt. I don't HATE, but severely disdain INJUSTICE and will stand up for anyone who really needs help.

I did see Rachel last night... the 2nd time around and it made me think a LOT! Though I didn't get to vote for Kennedy I do remember the "times" and all that came after! I have been upset with some decisions of Obama's but the comment was made last night that those of use who disagree should try to stick together for his sake. I do support him, but some things have bothered me and I still feel I must stand for what I believe in. I WISH him no HARM and know he has a heavy load to carry. But so do we ALL!

You know that saying "things happen for a reason" and usually I think it's true, but I don't always know what the reason is! That's not to say that I think harm will come to him or his family... I don't know, but there IS REASON to be FEARFUL of the CRAZIES!

Went on much too long... sorry!

[NYC_SKP]

13. Kick and Rec... nt

[Cha]

16. Thank Goodness we have

Frank Schaeffer who's exposing these hypocrites for what they are.

The worst form of hypocricy..using "prayers" to get the president killed by their evil cult.

[Lint Head]

18. I know these people.They are most definitely Fascist Theocrats.

They believe non-Christians should be subjugated or eliminated.
They are threatening me and you. They are dangerous and should be tried for inciting violence and
threatening mob rule and attempting to take over our precious country.

If these fascists attempt to take over my country with violence I will be a true patriot and defend it to my death. Our democratic republic, our Bill of Rights, or Constitution is too precious to let ignorant fascist theocrats destroy it. We must not be cowards when it comes to protecting what soldiers
die to protect for us on a daily basis.

This is not funny. This is as serious as it gets.

[Mopar151]

50. The Rapture is a revenge fantasy. n/t

[Lydia Leftcoast]

67. And they include liberal Christians as "non-Christians"

Their version of Christianity is as narrow and rigid as Saudi Arabia's version of Islam.

[bluescribbler]

70. It's not just non-christians

"They believe non-Christians should be subjugated or eliminated."

They also don't like "the wrong Christians". During the priamry campaign, a cow-worker was parroting the RW talking point that Obama was a Muslim. When I pointed out that he was a member of the united Church of Christ, he said, "That's not a real church." :mad::wtf: :crazy:

[get the red out]

19. These people are about nothing but violence

They glorify only war and suppression, they might as well be worshipping some ancient god of war for what they are about. The President is in danger and the country is in danger from these people.

[FrenchieCat]

21. This makes me question this country and what it is really all about.....

The man isn't even allowed to be a President like others were, and it simply because of his skin color.....cause he ain't "done" nothing that warrants folks praying for his death. As for those Democrats who want him to get angry, order up what he wants, bipass congress and all of that; you all are fatal fools.

[Sinti]

110. I promise you, many more of us

pray for his well being daily. We are grown folk who understand that he doesn't have a magic wand. I feel horrible for his wife and children though. It's outrageously unfair the huge mountain of @$%*&! he has to deal with. Yet he still smiles pretty brightly, you must admit.

[Clio the Leo]

22. Here, this will make you feel better.....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x5928

[Lint Head]

24. There very few threats against JFK before he was assassinated.

He road in an open car and shook hands with people openly. So did RFK.
The threat level means nothing. It just takes one nut to carry a threat out.

[Clio the Leo]

30. Emphasis on the phrase, "he road in an open car." NT

[Lint Head]

39. That's because there were no real threats made on his life.

He was murdered because there were not a high number of threats and the security team was not on high alert. That is the point. Obama is being threatened and someone is trying to make the point that the threat level is low as if to say there is no need to worry. Riding in an open vehicle, from a horse buggy to an automobile, was common for all Presidents until then. We are a more violent society now.
The Old West has nothing on the AK47s of today.

[NoSheep]

65. Thank you for that.

[Gregorian]

23. He knows the enemy.

I'm very impressed with him. He's believable because he was one of them. But no longer. What I find so important about his words is the vision from where they come. He isn't willing to sit and wait and watch. And we need to support Obama. He is our best hope. And this is why the hoards are being directed to act like such beasts.

The megaphones have been handed out to the brainless. We must be vigilant and stand together. It all sounds so silly to me, but it is true.

I don't know how many of us realize what we're up against. It's not just idle talk. This is a kind of war. And we are not armed. I mean, they have the media's attention, and we don't.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

63. Gregorian,

you have it right:
"He is our best hope. And this is why the hoards are being directed to act like such beasts."

and the media attention = their chief weapon... I've been ranting about this forever; we need to arm ourselves.

[Gregorian]

75. There would have to be some huge changes for us to regain the media honesty.

Either the huge megacorporations would have to split into smaller pieces, and or new news outlets would have to start up. And judging from the startups like Linktv that haven't received the attention they deserve, I just don't think it's possible. The cost of frequencies is impossibly high, and limited. And the big corps are not going to split.

The truth made way for profit. It's sickening, and dangerous.

I suppose it takes another world war for people to realize the fruits of their efforts. We aren't much smarter than monkeys, I fear. Sorry to be so wordy, but I'm pre-coffee. :)

[quiet.american]

25. How is it that marketing this slogan doesn't qualify as hate speech? nt

[liberalmuse]

26. Holy SHIT!

WTF is wrong with these people? They are wishing death on an innocent man. If there is a god, may he or she help them.

[jwirr]

29. The rw has given permission to target him just as they did Tiller. Damn

them.

[MadMaddie]

31. Schaeffer is right and many have known the risk all along

here's the thing.....O'reilly, Limbaugh, Palin, crybaby beck, the Party of No and all of their fascist radicals better be sure that they want to continue down this treacherous path. They love money more than they do the United States and The Constitution.

I believe that they think this a ratings game and they are going to try to seperate themselves from any violence that is occurring or may occur...

We will hold them accountable for any threats and violence against our elected officials.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[rebel with a cause]

32. My one sister (a devout christian) and I were talking the other day..

I can talk religion to her because I keep it general. Anyway, we were talking about what a Christian is.

A Christian is one who strictly follows the words/teachings of Jesus.

A Christian does not hope for the ending of the world because they do not want anyone to go to hell and they believe there might be a chance to save others. They do not want Armageddon simply because they think it will be glorious for them personally.

A Christian does not wish the death/destruction of another person, not even their enemy.

A Christian does not judge others because the bible says "judge not that you be not judged."

A Christian does not pray to god for the death of another because this is considered a big sin, one against god.

A Christian lives a life to show others an example of what a christian should be, Christianity is shown with action and not just with empty words.

A Christian is modest and does not sang out their own praises.

A Christian does not strive for riches here on earth, but provides for his own and shares what extra he gains with others.

The list can go on forever but I will stop here. I don't claim to be a Christian because I am not good enough but I follow more of these rules than some of those screaming from the pulpits in too many churches and on too many tv shows. See I tend to still "judge" some right wingers a bit.

O8) :rofl:

[Lord Helmet]

34. Damn skippy it's scary.

Schaeffer also commented on the left ripping him and that people should stand with him to counter the craziness. Made me think of some people here who are on a mission to post all the negative shit they can dig up on him.

[Cha]

38. I know..

it's hard not to think of that.

Gotta love Frank Schaeffer.

[Drunken Irishman]

35. I'm scared too, CatWoman.

I've been scared since January. :(

[undergroundpanther]

40. assemblies of god

and other right wing christian fanatic groups regularly use the bible,and expand on hate language in the bible to curse people they don't like, disagree with,or oppose.I was in a cell church situation with assemblies of god and cursing people in the name of the bible god is an everyday thing with evangelical types.I heard prayers for gays to get aids,for businesses they didn't like to fail,for people to suffer torments until they convert and worse. This type of christian has no moral conflict with repeatedly and regularly cursing people.They call it "spiritual warfare".

And there are very nasty things in the bible those 2000 year old words of hate are glorified by groups like AoG and denied by people who want the bible god to be a big warm fuzzy .I think the bible is the most evil propaganda ever written.But than again I am a gnostic mal-theist. Go figure.
Anyway the evangelicals love the blood and carnage of the bible,and more 'moderate' christians don't say much because they know these assholes are accurate biblically and the bible has huge moral contradictions and ethical loopholes to make any sociopath smile..And no christian wants to offend the bully god abuser the bible depicts god and it's 'son' as because what if the fanatics are right? The bible is so unclear on what is required to be saved,faith, works or doing that little take jesus in your heart ritual,or baptism in water or tongues.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

42. Rachel's show tonight hit the trifecta

Frank Schaeffer, Jeff Sharit and Naomi Klein. In their segments, these 3 brilliant people told the story of how the corporatist/religious powers are threatening our country and President. The entire show needs to go viral.

K&R

[bullwinkle428]

52. It was a fantastic show! One of her best ever, and that's high praise

indeed, coming from a cynical old fart like me!

[OneGrassRoot]

59. Wow, I'm going to look for the video now. Sounds awesome. n/t

[DCBob]

46. Don't worry, President Obama has the best security on earth now..

Actually he was more at risk during the campaign. There will always be dangerous wackos around no matter who is President. It goes with the job.

[Douglas Carpenter]

47. again here is the video THIS ABSOLUTELY MUST GO VIRAL!! for the safety of the world

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x403386#403430

thanks to Hissyspit for posting it in the Video Forum

[DCBob]

51. I am sure the Secret Service takes all this very seriously...

but Schaeffer makes some good points such as why aren't the moderate Republicans speaking out against these wackos in the same they have criticized the moderate Muslims for not speaking against the Islamic extremists. Also I liked his comment that all Democrats, including the hard left, need to be supporting the President now even if they think he is not moving fast enough on their specific issues.

[democracy1st]

53. K & R

[impik]

54. So good that Obama's supporters are sticking with him, right?

Yea, right.

Don't say the writing wasn't on the wall.

[RepublicanElephant]

57. exactly! these wingnuts are just waiting for enough people to turn on obama,

drive his poll numbers down, make him look so bad that they'll feel even more emboldened to act.

obama critics need to keep these things in mind.

[Lilith Velkor]

108. His admin should have fucking well thought of that before taking a dump on those who voted for him

At this point, another ration of shit - being blamed for something wingnuts might do - won't make a difference.

Do you seriously think Obama is so stupid that he didn't know the risks when he decided to run for President?

[Rupert Notmurdoch]

55. We SHOULD be Scared!

People who Know That God is On Their Side have been responsible for most of the bloodbaths of history!

[Rhiannon12866]

56. Just because it's hard for us to believe, doesn't mean it isn't true.

Scares the hell out of me. We know that there are lone crazies, always have been. But the fact that they're organized should scare everybody in this country who is marginally sane. :scared:

[TomClash]

60. You should be scared

I am. I have met a few of these people. They are Christians who hate Christ.

[rasputin1952]

61. Here we have one of the few rational Christians that gets air time...

While I avoid radical RW "christians" like the plague, I think I'll go through this man's book. He should get more air time, but I have to admit, he doesn't have the charisma of a "televangelist". What he does appear to have is a thought provoking expertise on Christianity and where a part of it has landed.

He is absolutely correct in saying this was trolling for an assassin...and those that use this bit of the OT for their own purposes; if there is a hell, I hope they wear their flameproof thongs, cause there's going to be some serious BBQ'ing of souls going on.

[NoSheep]

66. His book, Crazy for God, is a must read.

[rasputin1952]

68. I'm going to see if the library has it...

I'm in NE, and the local library has a pretty hefty "religion" section. Much to my chagrin, most of it is zealot garbage, but they have a few decent tomes on the subject of rational religious aspects.

Another good thing about the local library, they have a huge history section covering an amazing amount of historical items...something I am instantly drawn to...:D

[johnlucas]

62. This is a surprise to you?

The 1st Black President in United States history, a history and present-day chock full of ethnic hate, was obviously going to have people of that hate react like this.

In the campaign when they had crosshairs on the magazine cover over Obama, it was no surprise how it was goin' down.
Those racist McCain rallies weren't an accident.

It's the only thing that gives me pause when I feel Obama is being too timid & not as thorough with his objectives.
He knows that he has to walk that fine line in order to not give fuel to the racists. It frustrates me endlessly but what he does has to work or else it could be the end for the Black Equality movement. This movement tied into the equality of all kinds, economic, sexual preference, etc.

But I feel Obama's not going to make it unless he moves boldly.
He just can't be any old President, he has to be one of the greatest Presidents of all time.

Like most Black people he's gonna have to go above & beyond the mere standard. He can't just be good, he must be excellent.
Once he does that, he destroys a great big part of that historic hateful legacy that still controls this country.

He must get reelected in 2012.
He must unequivocally get behind the Homosexual Equality movement & make history.
His plans must return the economy to health.
And he must successfully end these wars while setting a new stage for diplomacy & peace.

The fence-sitters will never listen to those racists again if this country significantly improves under Obama's Presidency.
And the Southern Strategy will finally collapse ending the Conservative/Republican power structure & sending them to the marginal fringes of political society.
John Lucas

[xxqqqzme]

84. Thought provoking overview

These points seem to have been rambling around for a bit. Excellent starting point for discussion.

Welcome to DU.

[JDPriestly]

107. Above all, he has to find a way to get real jobs for people in America --

not just government make-work, but real industry and real jobs. That is an enormous challenge because the Republicans and Clinton spent most of our money and sold us out.

[jberryhill]

64. Unfortunately, he is correct

Having spent time in that culture when Francis Schaeffer was pretty much the closest thing that this branch of Protestants ever had to a Pope, I agree with his assessment here.

These folks are resistant to reason from any voice not in their own community. In fact, they are taught that any product of human reasoning is inherently suspect and likely evil. They are obsessed by their own doubt of salvation, and will push themselves to increasing extremism to attempt to prove to themselves that they believe.

If I saw such a bumper sticker, I'd give consideration to taking them out.

[paparush]

69. Yet another reason to end religious tolerance.

There is no room in this world any longer for monotheism.

We're not living in caves.

Religion is an embarrassing condition that feeds and seeds distrust, discord, and fear.

[Douglas Carpenter]

71. Frank Schaeffer is still a church-going Christian. He has disavowed fundamentalism and the

fundamentalist right which he and his much more famous father, Francis Schaeffer helped found.

I certainly wouldn't want to silence his voice - one of the most effective voices against religious extremism.

His most recent books on the subject are

Patience with God: Faith for People Who Don't Like Religion (or Atheism)

amazon link:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0306817500

and

Crazy for God: How I Grew Up as One of the Elect, Helped Found the Religious Right, and Lived to Take All (or Almost All) of It Back

link on Google Books:

http://www.google.com/books?id=mJIKlq2v6WAC&dq=Frank+Schaeffer

.

[paparush]

72. Sorry, but I'm solidly in the Sam Harris camp.

Not only does such faith lack a rational base, he argues, but even the urge for religious toleration allows a too-easy acceptance of the motives of religious fundamentalists. Religious faith, according to Harris, requires its adherents to cling irrationally to mythic stories of ideal paradisiacal worlds (heaven and hell) that provide alternatives to their own everyday worlds. Moreover, innumerable acts of violence, he argues, can be attributed to a religious faith that clings uncritically to one set of dogmas or another. Very simply, religion is a form of terrorism for Harris. Predictably, he argues that a rational and scientific view—one that relies on the power of empirical evidence to support knowledge and understanding—should replace religious faith. We no longer need gods to make laws for us when we can sensibly make them for ourselves.

http://www.amazon.com/End-Faith-Religion-Terror-Future/dp/0393327655/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1258558210&sr=8-1

[GillesDeleuze]

74. this is why i think schaffer is a mole for the fundies

gets their message across by softening it, "being against their violence", all the while easing the divisions between Good Scotsmen and bad.

[xxqqqzme]

86. Well if he is, I hope there is an emmy for

'best portrayal of a convert in a news analysis program'. He will easily win.

I have waivered on the mole role but ultimately rejected it. He is the recovering alcoholic, smoker, whatever addiction you name. The passion for the addiction morphs into the passion for the rejected. I am persuaded by his dedication and willingness to share his insights into that world of hate and fear.

[undeterred]

88. It never helps to meet intolerance with more intolerance.

All Christians are not right wing crazies. It is irrational to hate progressive Christians who share the same values you do.

[paparush]

91. I don't hate Christians. I think we have evolved beyond the need for the emotional comfort of

organized religion.

[live love laugh]

76. What is the difference between these people and terrorists? Why isn't this

considered a terrorist act?

[HopeOverFear]

77. Just watched it. He had me clapping at the end.

he's a good man.

[Zoeisright]

80. I reported that site to the FBI.

And then wrote and told them I did that. Hope they shit in their pants.

[keepthemhonest]

81. So who is the original cheerleader of such a prayer?

There must be a priest or someone who got these nuts all excited about doing away with Obama.Someone got this ball rolling garuanteed.In their minds he is a evil baby killer so they don't see it as doing wrong.

[Vinca]

82. And we're supposed to only be afraid of the Gitmo terrorists?

[Stellar]

83. An eye for an eye....

I heard people say this if anything happens to the President. It's a whisper campaign. I remember when Martin Luther King was assassinated. I hope nothing happens to the President and I'll continue to pray for him.

[Beacool]

85. There are some scary people out there.

One thing is disagreeing with someone's politics, another thing altogether is wishing that person dead. That is beyond sick.

:-(

[butterfly77]

93. He just said what a lot of us have been

saying and thinking all along. Seems as though as soon as Obama won the Dems lost their damn minds and started asking for everything at once and they pretend not to know what the situation was when he took office. Dems don't stick together.

[AntiFascist]

94. Religious extremism breeds terrorism.....

this isn't the first time right-wing extremists have tried to terrorize others with their religious beliefs.

[paparush]

103. Religion Breeds Exclusion and Contempt nt

[ProgressOnTheMove]

100. Let's look on the positives the last time they prayed for a negative the RNC got floods. It may

turn out they might not get what they bargained for, if that trend follows and it flips around on them. If there is a God he clearly doesn't reward praying for bad things.

[hileeopnyn8d]

104. I watched it,

and it is indeed scary.

Meanwhile, the rest of the media is still droning on about bow-gate, that is when they're not discussing Sarah Palin, her book, or whether or not the Newsweek cover of her was appropriate.

[swilton]

109. People will buy his book if he scares them

The religious right has been a phenomenon of American culture since the settling of America and the evangelicals turned away from the Puritan intellectuals who founded the New England universities. This 'plague' has continued to contaminate American society through the 1930s with the Scopes monkey trial, et. al. This was recognized in the 1960s when Richard Hofstadter wrote Anti-Intellectuaism in American Life. I don't think this is new - more dangerous yes due to the proliferation of more lethal weapons and the hopelessness now apparent with America's economic decline.

[RagAss]

111. Pray for a Hard-On,...... you Fat Fucks !

[defendandprotect]

112. Religious fanatics count on creating fear in their opponents . .. let's do something

real about the religious right --

Let's stop subsidizing religious organizations --

Let's laugh at people who support organized patriarchal religions -- !!