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Cali_Democrat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 08:36 PM Original message |
Poll question: Would DADT have still been repealed if Obama never compromised on the tax cuts? |
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onehandle (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 08:42 PM Response to Original message |
1. No. Because although we hold The White House, the GOP gets final say. |
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phleshdef (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 08:43 PM Response to Original message |
2. Not a chance in hell. |
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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 08:46 PM Response to Original message |
3. What's certain |
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AtomicKitten (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 08:51 PM Response to Original message |
4. You have not proved any correlation between the two much less quid pro quo. nt |
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Pirate Smile (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 08:57 PM Response to Reply #4 |
6. I don't think there has to be a quid pro quo. I do think we can accept that Republicans would |
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AtomicKitten (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 09:05 PM Response to Reply #6 |
9. The Rs could not be trusted to fulfill their part of any quid pro quo bargain. |
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kath (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-19-10 03:04 PM Response to Reply #9 |
67. EIGHTY-SEVEN filibusters! |
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Cali_Democrat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 09:00 PM Response to Reply #4 |
7. Look at it like this..... |
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AtomicKitten (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 09:12 PM Response to Reply #7 |
11. Because of the Rs' squirrelly behavior, it's impossible to predict what they would do. |
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Pirate Smile (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 10:42 PM Response to Reply #11 |
18. Frankly, it is amazing how much they did pass considering that they needed a super majority for |
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AtomicKitten (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 10:52 PM Response to Reply #18 |
24. The Senate is broken with the abuse of the filibuster. |
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Pirate Smile (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 11:47 PM Response to Reply #24 |
46. The horrible irony is that if they change the filibuster in January, there is not a chance in hell |
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AtomicKitten (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-19-10 12:19 AM Response to Reply #46 |
56. Changing the rules is always a crapshoot. |
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karynnj (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 10:38 PM Response to Reply #4 |
17. The op has not proven it, but an argument can be made |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 10:46 PM Response to Reply #17 |
20. Correct, until taxes were passed they were deadlocked, and will likely have been... |
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karynnj (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 10:52 PM Response to Reply #20 |
23. small change - the tax compromise made DADT repeal POSSIBLE |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 10:55 PM Response to Reply #23 |
27. Fair enough. But they would not have HAPPENED otherwise. |
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karynnj (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-19-10 11:09 AM Response to Reply #27 |
65. absolutely |
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AtomicKitten (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 10:55 PM Response to Reply #23 |
28. The Rs certainly threatened a log jam until the tax compromise was passed. |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 10:49 PM Response to Reply #4 |
21. Such a correlation is obvious. |
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AtomicKitten (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 10:57 PM Response to Reply #21 |
29. It was an implication, any correlation certainly speculative. |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 10:58 PM Response to Reply #29 |
30. Deductive logic is not speculation. |
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AtomicKitten (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 11:01 PM Response to Reply #30 |
31. The Rs are completely unreliable and thus unpredictable. |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 11:05 PM Response to Reply #31 |
32. They were not relied upon to pass it. |
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AtomicKitten (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 11:12 PM Response to Reply #32 |
33. Whether they would filibuster or not was always uncertain; they had the votes to pass it for weeks. |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 11:20 PM Response to Reply #33 |
34. Wrong, they had no reason to filibuster it after the tax cuts were passed. |
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AtomicKitten (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 11:28 PM Response to Reply #34 |
36. They have continued to filibuster the Dream Act and the 9/11 First Responder's bill |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 11:36 PM Response to Reply #36 |
38. Neither of those bills are cut and dry. |
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AtomicKitten (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 11:38 PM Response to Reply #38 |
39. The Dream Act was separated out and they still filibustered it AFTER the tax compromise. |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 11:39 PM Response to Reply #39 |
41. Irrelevant. The Dems had the votes on Dream, btw. |
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AtomicKitten (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 11:42 PM Response to Reply #41 |
44. Again (good grief!) DADT cloture vote passed, Dream Act cloture didn't, both post tax compromise. |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 11:44 PM Response to Reply #44 |
45. Again, the Dems had the votes for DADT and Dream Act. The Dems voted down Dream Act. It wasn't GOP. |
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AtomicKitten (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 11:54 PM Response to Reply #45 |
50. It doesn't matter if they had the votes to pass it if they didn't have enough votes for cloture. |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 11:55 PM Response to Reply #50 |
51. Uh, the vast majority of the R's never actually play nice. It's whether or not we can get a few. |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 11:22 PM Response to Reply #33 |
35. In any event, you are deflecting. Repeal would not have happened without tax cut compromise. |
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AtomicKitten (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 11:34 PM Response to Reply #35 |
37. Deflecting what? Your insistence that the Rs would play nice after the tax compromise?!! |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 11:39 PM Response to Reply #37 |
40. Irrelevant to what actually *happened*. |
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AtomicKitten (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 11:41 PM Response to Reply #40 |
42. Tax compromise passed followed by DADT cloture vote successful but Dream Act cloture vote not. |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 11:42 PM Response to Reply #42 |
43. DADT = simple legislation. Dream Act = major legislation, which the Dems had the votes for. |
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AtomicKitten (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 11:50 PM Response to Reply #43 |
47. Your argument is what is irrelevant but you're doing an excellent job moving the goalposts. |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 11:52 PM Response to Reply #47 |
49. I don't think you understand. Both votes required only a few R votes. BOTH VOTES GOT THEM. |
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AtomicKitten (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-19-10 12:04 AM Response to Reply #49 |
52. Good grief, another civics scholar! Invoking cloture with 60+ votes breaks a filibuster. |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-19-10 12:09 AM Response to Reply #52 |
54. The 5 Dem votes were enough to break it. |
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Pirate Smile (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 08:51 PM Response to Original message |
5. Republicans would have filibustered and then they take over the House plus more R's in the Senate. |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 10:51 PM Response to Reply #5 |
22. I think some of those were mob mentality votes, others were diehard anti-Obama votes. |
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liberal N proud (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 09:02 PM Response to Original message |
8. The GOP knew they could stall on anything and everything |
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rucky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 09:09 PM Response to Original message |
10. It wouldn't have passed without the Pentagon study & Gates' support. |
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mtnsnake (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 09:16 PM Response to Original message |
12. Why not just celebrate the repeal of DADT without attaching it to the divisive tax issue |
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vaberella (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 09:35 PM Response to Reply #12 |
14. B/c of the political climate--one probably insured the other's success. n/t |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 10:52 PM Response to Reply #12 |
25. Why not appreciate what politics is? |
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vaberella (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 09:33 PM Response to Original message |
13. It would not have been repealed now. It's a straight trade off. n/t |
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Bluenorthwest (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 09:55 PM Response to Original message |
15. I reject the attempt at connecting the two issues |
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BzaDem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 10:28 PM Response to Reply #15 |
16. Just because you reject reality doesn't mean reality isn't reality. |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 10:54 PM Response to Reply #15 |
26. What deal? It's logic. GOP + no tax deal = deadlock. New House = no chance for repeal. |
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vaberella (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-19-10 08:11 AM Response to Reply #26 |
60. Logic doesn't work when people want to wallow in their misplaced indignant anger. n/t |
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vaberella (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-19-10 08:10 AM Response to Reply #15 |
59. By doing that you ignore the political climate we're living in and Obama is dealing with. n/t |
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Ozymanithrax (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 10:42 PM Response to Original message |
19. Republicans in the Senate connected all issues together.., |
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andym (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Dec-18-10 11:51 PM Response to Original message |
48. If the GOP Senators had carried out their threat to filibuster everything |
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Milo_Bloom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-19-10 12:06 AM Response to Original message |
53. Of course. |
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jenmito (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-19-10 12:13 AM Response to Original message |
55. Nope. The Repubs.' votes were contingent on first finishing the tax bill... |
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Clio the Leo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-19-10 08:02 AM Response to Original message |
57. You cant have watched the news for the last two weeks and think otherwise.... |
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vaberella (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-19-10 08:09 AM Response to Reply #57 |
58. Now the question is. Do people respect him when realizing what he had to do for DADT repeal? n/t |
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Clio the Leo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-19-10 08:46 AM Response to Reply #58 |
62. lol of course not .... |
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mkultra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-19-10 08:46 AM Response to Reply #58 |
63. lol. They will chide him for the tax bill and turn away from him on DADT |
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Amimnoch (377 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-19-10 08:14 AM Response to Original message |
61. This thread will make baby jesus cry. |
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ClarkUSA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-19-10 10:43 AM Response to Original message |
64. I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories. Nate Silver has a more logical reason for those 11 GOP votes. |
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vaberella (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Dec-19-10 02:42 PM Response to Reply #64 |
66. Iffy considering these guys voted against the Dream Act. |
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