Chris Matthews beleives the right-wing ginning up TSA wars

[veganlush]

I tend to agree. He talks about all the finger-pointing and second-guessing that will take place when a plane goes down. If it's true that the right-wing is ginning up this controversy, why are so many people here buying in? Why is so much misleading information about the screenings being propagated here? What's the real reason behind the hysteria? Don't tell me you really believe that checking people for bombs in accordance with your job duties and training makes you a molester. Don't tell me that you really believe that all fliers are subjected to the choice between scanner and frisk. Don't tell me that you really believe that a metal detector is good enough to check for plastic explosives.

What are the real reasons behind this hysteria? I know why the right is whipping this up, it's because they want to highlight the fact that we're not profiling, that we're not just subjecting people of color or middle eastern heritage to these screens as they would rather do, but why are so many people here at DU stoking this fake outrage?

As with any major undertaking, there are going to be anomalous occurrences to highlight, where stupid decisions are made by individuals such as may be the case in the example of the man with the urostomy bag but in the vast majority of cases people are going through the usual metal detector, etc. and getting on the plane. In some cases, where the metal detector went off or some other flag went up, some people will be directed to the scanner. If they don't like the cellphone style radiation they'll get there, they can opt for the pat-down. In this case they get a thorough handling by a same-gender TSA person looking for plastic explosives or weapons, etc.. This is what is happening at most big airports from my understanding.

What's the big deal?

[LawnLover]

1. I don't think this is a right wing issue

People on both sides of the aisle and between are pissed about this nonsense.

[icnorth]

5. Exactly.

This. Is. Bullshit. How in *&%# is this shit going to protect the travelling public when the next extremist wanting to hook up with his 72 virgins walks into an airport and trips off his package in a line up of three or four hundred people BEFORE he goes through screening. (Discussion on Olbermann last night).
:grr:

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

25. And yet, there's absolute silence when it comes to racial profiling!

The hypocrisy is quite simply astounding!!!

[Pholus]

26. What hypocrisy is that? You search one you search all. End of story.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

29. Who do you think I'm referring to? The left wing? Obviously not.

The hypocrisy is coming from those who feign outrage on this issue and yet argue FOR racial profiling.

But you're right: you pat down one, you pat down all. None of this selective bullshit.

If I'm going to be racially profiled as a black woman, I want EVERYONE to be subjected to the same humiliation! Perhaps then people will understand what it feels like to be violated.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

48. racial profiling, pat downs were part of the BUSH admin's program

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

49. Racial profiling has been around much longer than Bush. His administration

just "legalized" it.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

55. I guess they did, we didn't have a Patriot act before though

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

63. True that. n/t

[spin]

60. Racial profiling is worthless. Behavioral profiling could be useful.

The most effective check, as many analysts have commented, remains the human one, Israeli-style, designed to detect bombers rather than bombs. The system works: every passenger in the queue for the check-in at Ben-Gurion airport, or for any El Al flight elsewhere, is questioned, if only for a few seconds, by a trained ‘selector,’ who can basically conclude within a few seconds from someone’s reactions - body language and facial expressions more than verbal responses - to questions such as ‘Where did you come from just now?’ and ‘Did you pack your bags yourself and did anyone give you anything to take to someone else at your destination?’ who might be a potential threat from who is just the average tourist. This leaves time to ask people who might be a threat more searching questions before even considering whether to search them and their bags or not. As Daniel Pipes reminds us in an article almost 21 years ago, this is what saved an El Al flight from London in April 1986 from being blown up by the completely unwitting Ann-Marie Murphy, in whose luggage her Arab boyfriend had hidden a bomb.

***snip***

The most effective security measure at airports is not racial profiling, but behavioral profiling.

Although, as commentators have pointed out, not all Muslims are terrorists, unfortunately all the terrorists involved in recent outrages against Western targets - the USA, Britain, Spain and so on -- have been Muslims. Not everyone with an Arab name is Muslim - many are Christians, Druze, or from other backgrounds. Similarly, not every fanatical Muslim is dark or wears Arab robes: some of the most fanatical members of the jihadi movement are light-skinned converts who may have blond hair and blue eyes, and who for the purpose of carrying out an attack will wear Western clothes and use the names they bore before converting to Islam

***snip***

Whatever name, religion, skin colour or clothes you bear passing through airports and their security checks, your behavior is the most telling. If you are planning to blow yourself up together with two or three hundred other people, you are anxious that you are going to succeed without first getting caught, and concerned that Allah’s heaven will match the glowing descriptions on which you have been fed by your instructor or imam: the stress does show -- which is why there is a good chance that you will get caught.
http://www.hudson-ny.org/1088/behavioral-profiling-detect-bombers-not-bombs

[Whisp]

81. And I don't think there is a left wing media.

If the talking heads on the tv are all blustered and outraged over this, I suspect it right there. The liars never stop lieing.

[MadMaddie]

2. I would say the big deal is the U.S is 50 years behind Israel

on airport security.

- The Machines being used are heavily invested in by Chertoff
- The TSA has said that they were concerned that the terrorist were going to use prostetics for attacks..
- On this issue I would say WTF? They are just now concerned about potential terroristic activities and they are just now implementing these practices.
- Israel starts their check way before the cars get near the airport
- They use psycological observation
- They implement other practices that have enabled them to avoid having another attack. We will hear the excuse that Isreale is small and the U.S has many airports. Since when is the U.S so feable and unable to take on a challange?

Is the training that the TSA employees receive adequate? Are they smart enough to understand a colestomy bag and it's attachment to the human body?

If they are concerned with folks with prostetics why not figure out a way to treat them humanely and with dignity?

My final question is the machines that they are using why is Chertoff invested in the company that makes the machines?

[Phx_Dem]

Israel passengers have to show up 4 hours before flight time

so they can be "interviewed." (can't find the online link, but it wasin today's NY Times, page A18)

You think the American public are pissed now? Just wait until they have to arrive 4 hours head of flight time. Progressives would be whining about being "interrogated" and "profiled."

[golfguru]

22. It is 2 hours now in US, so 4 hours is not so bad

if no X-ray radiation, no groping our junk, no removing shoes, no ban on
shampoo or soda brought from home, no ban on scissors to trim mustache or beard,
and 100% success!

[dionysus]

52. this is just my experience, but i showed up 2 hrs early for the flight, security took 10 minutes,

and i sat reading a book for an hour.

i don't care much either way about the scanner, put the patdowns (which i didn't see in my trip) seem excessive in the high profile cases we're reading about.

[Phx_Dem]

67. 2 hours is bad enough, 4 is absurd. For an 8 am flight, I have to get up by 2am

to get to the airport by 4am so I can sit for 4 hours.

Pat me down please!

[global1]

3. The RW Is Ginning This Up To Put Obama In A Pickle Again.....

if he backs down from this or if his administration didn't institute such methods - they'd say he's soft on terror. Same thing they would say if we experienced another attack of this type and we didn't have these measures in place.

But because they can gin up feelings about this by using terms as 'groping', 'naked pictures', 'molestation', etc - they have again successfully used what they would be giving Bush accolades for if he were doing this.

Like Potter admitted about the insurance industry and how they went after Michael Moore - they have successfully turned the American public against our best interests again - with this ginned up controversy.

What was it Bush said? "Fool me once.........

[Frustratedlady]

9. I agree. It had a RW smell to it from the very beginning. eom

Just listen to RW commentary on profiling. That's the talking point for the last day or so.

Listen for the talking points.

[Fruittree]

38. I agree...

I am so sick of yet another manufactured controversy. With all the horrible things we could be subjected to in the world - this seems fairly mild. Is it totally effective? I don't know and maybe it needs to be modified or replaced with something else but are we as a people totally incapable of a reasoned discussion? Do we always have to fly into hysterics and name calling?

[Mojorabbit]

78. No, the old type of pat downs

which I experienced during the Bush admin were bad enough, what put things over the edge was the new enhanced patdowns which are even more intrusive. Gloved hands inside underwear and the groping of the genital area. A line in the sand was reached. I am as left
as they come and I was mortified when I flew and was searched twice in one trip during the Bush admin. I was yelled at like I was a criminal to keep my legs spread while I was groped. It is a human thing, not a right or left thing. Unfortunately, our reps are on the wrong side of yet another issue. THis is not a ginned up controversy.
On edit, I am thrilled that the public is pushing back finally against this.

[Pholus]

4. Oh yes, I am part of a vast right-wing conspiracy. :eyes:

Point by point.

> If it's true that the right-wing is ginning up this controversy, why are so many people here buying in?

Guess that might mean that the right-wing is NOT ginning this up? I don't take Matthews as an expert. Do you?

> Why is so much misleading information about the screenings being propagated here?

So what is misleading exactly?

> What's the real reason behind the hysteria?

Discussed to death, but apparently you haven't been following this.

> Don't tell me you really believe that checking people for bombs in accordance with your job duties and training makes you a molester.

To go Godwin on you, job duties are NEVER an excuse. Sorry. The TSA people hate this too, and more than one has questioned the need for it.

> Don't tell me that you really believe that a metal detector is good enough to check for plastic explosives.

Nope, that's what chemical swabs are for. Why should I take a additional radiation exposure when that is only 50% effective by some accounts? Furthermore, why is the TSA NOT taking rational steps (that might inconvenience business) to close off secure areas at airports?

> What are the real reasons behind this hysteria?

Repeated lies and evasions from the TSA when asked for the details of the scanner pictures, the ability to store the pictures, the radiation exposure, the punitive aspects of some searches, and generally the anti-American nature of the entire endeavour.

> As with any major undertaking, there are going to be anomalous occurrences to highlight, where stupid decisions are made by individuals such as may be the case in the example of the man with the urostomy bag but in the vast majority of cases people are going through the usually metal detector, etc. and getting on the plane.

Yup. But this is not about process, it is about the entire misbegotten tactic.

> In some cases, where the metal detector went off or some other flag went up, some people will be directed to the scanner.

Wouldn't that be nice. But the scanner or the freedom pat -- those are your choices in the endgame.

> If they don't like the cellphone style radiation they'll get there, they can opt for the pat-down.

Ummm, you don't really know much about the various types of radiation, do you?

> In this case they get a thorough handling by a same-gender TSA person looking for plastic explosives or weapons, etc.. This is what is happening at most big airports from my understanding.

Ummmm, it starts to ramble here but okay?

> What's the big deal?

Depends on your worldview. Sadly I bought into that cold-war propoganda that said certain rights define what it is to be an American. Finding out that we were lying makes it a bit difficult for me to turn my head and cough on command.

Here is MY question.

Why do YOU have a problem with my being upset about this?

[Pholus]

6. Furthermore, the choice to use backscatter X-ray instead of safer microwaves is political/financial.

We're being sold an expensive bunch of garbage in the name of safety. That kind of ticks me off too.

[arcane1]

7. The hysteria has smelled of rat to me since day one

Especially since 1) it's being propagated across all media lines, and 2) because there have been cases of people lying about their experiences.

I have no idea what the rat's nature is, but I smell him!

(edit for spelling)

[patrice]

31. Move toward Privatization? - and/or - Are TSA personnel AFSCME?

[treestar]

8. Rec'd good point. I think it is a media creation.

If someone sets off the regular x-ray machine, the only solution would be they can't fly. Is that what they'd rather have?

[lostnfound]

10. So if you're a women who is bleeding profusely worried about the long lines followed by

someone feeling around your underwear and your sanitary pad in a public place, does that make you right-wing or experiencing 'fake outrage'?
Personally, it seems like a completely practical problem, actually. Not fake at all. Especially if you've got a little kid traveling with you, too. Gee whiz, how awkward. That's all. How "frustrating". In my opinion, people who think this should be the new America are seriously lacking in perspective.

[flyarm]

11. Bullfuckingshit Chris..I am not right wing, and I am against these machines and pat downs

Oh and Chris, I am a retired 33 yr flight attendant. In 2001 I was chosen by my peers and supervisors and Flight Service as flight Attendant of the year for the NY Base of one of the 2 9/11 airlines!

Stop the propaganda Chris Mathews ./Just stop the shit! Oh and Chris , I remember your pushing a Right wing Governor who was a groper for the governorship of California...in fact you almost came all over yourself when you talked about him and pushed him on the people of California!

Enough of your shit Mathews.
This is not a right or left wing anything, this is against all of our constitutional rights!

We are nt guilty before innocent! We are Innocent before guilty.

This is fascist.

Every American ought to be against these machines and screaming about our rights under our constitution being robbed!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you are not complaining and screaming about this breach of our Constitution, I just wonder what kind of American you really are!

[Pholus]

14. Now now, we mustn't get hysterical. The president might look bad. ;)

As if THAT was the only thing behind this.

[flyarm]

16. I am not hysterical. I do not get hysterical. I get factual. eom

[Pholus]

20. I figured that out. :) I was saying that for the benefit of a few other kind of hysterical types.

I mean, really. It's all a RW conspiracy that I don't appreciate all of this.

[Whisp]

85. you sound like a very unhappy person.

sorry about that, but I don't think it's Obama's fault.

[krabigirl]

87. Agree with you. But since "team blue" is in charge, progressives don't give a crap.

[jefferson_dem]

12. Anyone who's been paying attention knows this is true.

Sludge has been whipping up the hate and hysteria for weeks. Right wing blogs have been tossing around these pathetic "no context" youtube clips. Hate radio jocks are now encouraging people be belligerent against the "TSA-hole flunkies" (yes, that's what Boortz is referring to them as).

[flyarm]

17. Bullshit! that crap won't fly! eom

[jefferson_dem]

33. Truth...

Your exclamation is impressive... but perhaps you haven't been paying attention.

Matt Sludge has been routinely running sickly suggestive stories on this topic for weeks.

Look it up. Or, click here - http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/dsp/links_recap_picture.htm

Sorry.

[Pholus]

34. If only your worldview wasn't as dry drunkenly black/white as Bush's.

So what if Sludge is talking about this. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Unless you think the world is "with ye or agin' ye". In which case you're a fool.

Then again, the way you're all over this topic, I'm wondering if you work for Rape-i-scan incorporated or if you just own stock...

[jefferson_dem]

35. Your post reeks of irony overload...

Getting all sanctimonious about me being (supposedly) black/white

while associating me with Bush and suggesting I work for the scanner manufacturer simply because I haven't gone all unhinged. HaHa.

[Pholus]

36. I'm just saying -- I'm entertained by watching you get worked up over the CONCEPT that I'm upset.

[jefferson_dem]

39. Then why not just say that?

You're a real hoot. I hope you post more.

[Pholus]

40. I'm glad you approve. I'm not nearly hysterical. But I am P/O'ed, ignore at our party's peril.

[flyarm]

54. I pay a damn lot of attention,,I was a flight crew for 33 years ..it has been my business to pay

ATTENTION!

Today I take people internationally as a tour guide.

So please save your bullshit for someone who doesn't know the truth about all this shit!

And it is shit..it is pathetic kabuki theater!

[flyarm]

72. i could seriously question your idea of truth...but i will let that rest. eom

[ProSense]

13. He's not the only one

Kevin Drum points out that the RW's hypocrisy.

[Imajika]

15. It is really amazing to see how many on DU...

...completely agree with the far right on this issue. I just don't get it. It seems so obvious to me the right wing is making a big deal about this to hurt the Obama administration, yet so many people here are just as outraged as the average Tea Party halfwit.

Matthews, Schultz, etc are claiming it is just the right wing that is angry about this, yet right here on DU people seem whipped up in a frenzy to match what you'd likely find on Free Republic.

WTH is going on? I still can't figure out what the outrage is all about. So you get scanned and patted down to enter a plane. Inconvenient? Yes. Some horrendous violation of our rights? No. The goal is to make the average American confident in our transportation system. Even if the steps we take are largely useless, the point is to avoid racial profiling and make the general public feel safe.

Geeze, just deal with it. How is this such a big deal?

The Republicans are using this to push racial profiling and privatization. Don't fall for their garbage.

[flyarm]

18. Seems the opposite to me, it seems some are trying to put the blame on one group when it is

Americans who give a damn about the Constitution that are upset and angry about this.

Stop trying so hard to pass the buck onto others!

By doing so , you are practicing Propaganda!

[shimmergal]

80. Ed Schultz really was dupllicitous

yesterday. He posed the choice in a poll between "safety or racial profiling." Not a word about the possibility of behavioral profiling, dogs, or the fact that all the near-misses so far have been from people who got on, and presumably cleared to fly, at foreign airports. Worse, he kept referring to right-wingers being willing to profile "brown people" as opposed to, presumably, lily-white Americans.

What a bunch of nonsense. Not holding any brief for RW attitudes, but the "brown people" meme is just stupid. Lots of people from the Middle East are just as white as the average "Caucasian" American. And how do the Israelis tell the difference between an Israeli and a Palestinian? Cartainly not by skin color. Usually I like what Ed says, but he was way off base this time.

[bushisanidiot]

19. MSM/Right wing fake "concern" just like the tea baggers

and no one even suspects that maybe, just maybe, the President of the United States and his National Security Advisors might know something we don't know. President Obama is no AWOL Bush. He doesn't ignore national security concerns to the point that airplanes are flown into buildings. He is actually taking threats seriously and being a President. Sworn to serve and protect.
And he hasn't had to start ONE war to do so!

[Uzybone]

21. 'liberal' fools on the internet eternally swallowing RW propaganda.

[former9thward]

28. Some of us are concerned about civil liberties.

That used to be a liberal principle. I guess not so much now.

[krabigirl]

89. Not when "our team" is in charge. so sad.

[patrice]

32. There are people who get a buzz out of posing. nt

[krabigirl]

88. You are the fool if you believe this.

[Pholus]

23. Actually I find it amusing. At some point before 2012 we're going to have to come together.

Yet you guys start a thread claiming that people like me who don't like this ISSUE are somehow being suckered, fooled or are RW tools.

Really? You cannot figure this out?

Here's some advice.

You want us to win as a group in 2012 you had better start thinking about this issue long and hard and try to understand EXACTLY why your fellow D's might not like this invasive and un-American thing. We agree on everything else -- you are going to split us apart on this?

I bet if this were still Bush's watch you'd understand a bit better.

You should -- he started this crap.

But you seem to be wearing some blinders at the moment.

[catgirl]

41. Un-american?

Now where have I heard that one before? Yes- when I was accused of being un-american when I spoke out against
the Iraq war- by a republican. That term is such a generalization that has no clear definition. What makes someone
"american"?

[Pholus]

44. Yeah, I got accused of the same thing. Your point? It's HARDLY a republican "magic word."

[catgirl]

46. Never heard it from a reasonable democrat

Not accusing you of anything, but it is used by repugs.

[Pholus]

58. Perhaps that is exactly why the liberal=un-American meme gets traction.

If you don't call the Republicans on their own violations of our nation's ideals, most people probably get the wrong idea about where you're coming from.

[Pholus]

45. An understanding that I have a Bill of Rights protecting me. That's American. Or do you disagree?

You think these scanners are great? Fantastic. I saw lots of good republicans claim that if I had nothing to hide it was okay for Bushco to record every email, call and web search. You can pride yourself on your similarities as well.

[catgirl]

47. There are no similarities between myself and repugs

None, whatsoever. No, I don't think scanners "are great", I'm just not freaking out over it.

[Pholus]

56. How'd you feel about "1st amendment zones" back in the day?

Were they worth freaking out over? After all, Bush let you exercise your free speech but not where it would be inconvenient for him. Man that kind of bothered me. But perhaps I shouldn't have freaked out.

What about the Iraq war? Was that worth freaking out over? Man, it was infuriating seeing story after story from the administration shot down by people working hard to uncover the truth only to see the story change. But was it worth worrying? It didn't affect me personally, so I suppose not. But I did.

What about Bush's tax cuts. Was that worth freaking out over? I got mine. So, "why worry" then... But I did!

What about the right to marry? I'm hetero, so perhaps I shouldn't have gotten bothered about that. I did though. But perhaps there was no need to freak out there!

Then there was the domestic spying. Unless you were plotting sedition, I suppose your reaction should be that it isn't worth worrying about, right? But it bothers me that my country distrusts everyone. It just doesn't seem right.

So here we go with a violation of the 4th amendment. As part of my "freaking out" as you say, I have been watching the TSA's statements as they introduced these scanners. They lied their asses off repeatedly and demonstrably. They lied about the effectiveness of the scanners. They are still trying to lie about the resolutions. They are not honest about the radiation dosages and will not release any solid numbers. They lied about the capabilities of the machines and their supposed inability to store images UNTIL someone dug up the actual specifications showing that TSA specifically REQUESTED the ability to store and transmit images. Then they changed their story.

So WHY CONTINUE TO LIE if the truth is in your favor?

Some scientists at Livermore came up with a pretty reasonable compromise between security and privacy -- distort the images. You'd still see the returns, just not in clinical detail. TSA didn't like that, not one little bit. Of course, being the TSA they don't have to give a reason. They're above accountability.

And by now I guess I sound "hysterical" to you. So be it. The technology is crap, it isn't even designed to work perfectly. Then again, the TSA isn't designed to work either. They scan the passengers in reaction to the underwear bomber, then leave big gaping holes in other aspects of the airport security because the terrorists haven't hit them there yet. Nope, what we see here is a political calculus that you HAVE TO OVERREACT or if something bad happens you'll get blamed. It's the heart of this VERY THREAD that insinuates that even voicing my concerns is somehow betraying the Democratic party and the President.

Sorry, it's not worth my hide getting irradiated to protect some politician's job, even if the doses statistically are ONLY as dangerous as the terrorists themselves. . I will freak out over this so that I don't see these crappy machines appear at every hospital, school, courthouse, mall and stadium in the country like metal detectors did.

A

[Cosmocat]

66. So ...

the wingers suddenly have found jesus on the issue, and it is democrats dividing democrats?

Look, I would hope that all democrats get the points being made about it being a civil liberty issue ...

But, the only reason it is getting any air right now is that it is seen by repubican and the MSM as being something that is damaging to the sitting president ...

Pile on all you want, but, you are piling on Barrack Obama on this, and there are VERY gleeful republicans in the pile with you ...

[Pholus]

73. Yeah yeah, I got your translation. Sit down and shut up for the good of the party. Sorry, no.

[Cosmocat]

74. LOL ...

Well, the good news from that principled stand is that we all will be in agreement in standing against Mitt Romney starting in 2013 ...

If airport security was conducting full anal probes on every man, woman and child who flew from 2001 to 2008, there is not a single R in the country who would not have said it was our patriotic duty to bring the vasoline ...

There is something that lies between that and getting in line with them to undermine Barrack Obama on this issue ...

[Pholus]

75. Before this issue I WOULD have said that is what makes us better than them.

Now? Not so clear anymore.

[Cosmocat]

82. They have NO moral compass ...

Look, I can appreciate the point ...

I do ...

But, the "game" has changed ...

Maybe 20 years ago, you could afford to hold your team accountable on the margins, because there were some folks on the other team that did the same ... It evened everything out ... Also, there was not these complete and total disconnect with the R party and reality ...

But, the republican party of today has absolutely ZERO interest in governance, and absolutely no postion other than the most extreme corporate/ultra rich advocasy meshed in with an out and out attack on government as an institution ...

So, the difference between even a "blue dog" democrat and ANY R at this point is miles and miles apart ...

At the same time, the zombies follow them through thick and thin ... They listen to Rush/Beck or whoever and get in line, and they move the goalposts without even the first concern for intellectual honesty ... And, the people calling the game, the MSM, is in the tank 100 percent ...

[krabigirl]

90. Yep. Ignore this at your peril..

[woo me with science]

92. Damn straight. nt

[sally cat]

24. My right wing next door neighbor informed me that the left is behind it! Everyone has an opinion.

[elizm]

27. Loving this thread....been thinking the same for days now.

Obama would be against this TOTALLY if it were not necessary...get a clue, folks, he is NOT a fear monger like the Republicans were. Those on the right saw this as an opportunity to slam Obama once again AND get unassuming/naive folks on the left to jump on board. The right wing nuts are playing the left like a fiddle.

[intheflow]

30. You're so right.

Liberals are just whiny sheeple who don't understand the 4th amendment doesn't apply to citizen's bodies. :eyes:

[stray cat]

37. If so the left sees it as a bright new shiny object to chase

[2Design]

42. not a rw issue - everyone issue - they may be spinning it different

I am against these further invasions and they don't work other than intimidation
I don't believe in molestation and sexual assault to fly

If it is not a big deal to you - fine but don't put down those who it is a big deal to

They will continue on this slippery slope if allowed to continue and I don't care who is in the WH it looks like that does not matter with wars, abuse, Torture or anything else

[CreekDog]

43. I get my Gin from a different source, thank you very much

i hate agreeing with Rush and company, but that's not my fault. the alternative would be to support an unconscionable policy in order to support Obama. i would do that if it did no harm --but it does.

that's a trade i can't stomach.

[Mojorabbit]

79. +10000 nt

[wisteria]

50. Yes, he is right. Just list for one day to all the RW talking heads and it is obvious they are

ginning this up. Why? I think they are pushing for anti-American profiling of any person who looks like a dark skinned terrorist.

[Pholus]

57. Given how inept and political TSA is, they'll probably profile too.

(especially since if they do, they leave even MORE nice big security holes).

But nothing new there.

[athena]

51. Cellphones do not emit X-ray radiation.

The wavelength of the radiation emitted by cellphones is not enough to break chemical bonds. This is why, no matter what anyone says, you will not get cancer from talking on a cellphone. It's physically impossible. As for the airport scanners, they are of two types: millimeter-wavelength and X-ray backscatter. The millimeter-wavelength scanners cannot cause cancer, but the X-ray backscatter scanners can. The dose is low, but the wavelength of the radiation is enough to break chemical bonds, which is why there is necessarily a risk, albeit small, of getting cancer from these machines. There is a reason doctors don't give you X-rays unless one is really required.

[dionysus]

53. thank you for a fact based post

:)

[sally cat]

59. The first one so far.

[burning rain]

61. Conservatives develop a civil libertarian streak when the president is a Democrat.

Remember when Bill Clinton was in the White House? Republicans were yelling and crying about the awfulness of the BATF, wiretaps, Janet Reno, Waco, and what-have-you in a way to rival the ACLU, but as soon as they got their boy George W in, no amount of oppressive federal law enforcement was enough.

It's nothing but opportunism: no concern at all for the good of the nation. And if there's a domestic terrorist strike, they'll take advantage of that opportunity to make political hay, as well.

[Pholus]

62. And, sadly, it appears that some "liberals" embrace the police state when a D is in the white house.

I wouldn't have thunk that one. After all, personal rights have always been a *liberal* value. Or at least it was when Bush was shoving "free speech zones" down our throats and recording all our communications for later use. Are you saying I made a mistake presuming that the outcries there were anything other than opportunism?

[MadHound]

64. This isn't a right wing issue, this isn't a left wing issue, this is an issue of human dignity and

Our civil liberties. It is a very bipartisan issue and to think otherwise, to try and say it is right wing or left wing, or to defend it on the basis of who supports it is just absolutely nuts. Not everything in this country is left or right, sometimes matters are truly bipartisan.

[Richard D]

65. If we turn this into a right/left issue

or if we allow it to be turned that way, we're groped.
Popular opinion is against this on all sides.
It's a bad idea done in a bad way for all of the wrong reasons.

[flyarm]

83. + 1 MILLION!! well said and stated! eom

[DemocraticPilgrim]

68. They'll do anything for political advantage on the right let's just not fly if it's that bad but it

is unfortunately necessary. If Pres. Obama did nothing the right would do all in their power to make something happen. That's the cold hard reality not Pres. Obama setting out to be oppressive that's ludicrous.

[woo me with science]

69. THEY WANT TO PAINT DEMOCRATS AS DEFENDERS OF GROPING. nt

[LittleGirl]

70. Stop. The. Pat Downs.

Listen, Please take this with best intentions: unless you've been through one of those pat downs, I don't think you are allowed to opine that they are not against our civil liberties.
Been there.
Done that.
Humiliated!
I wasn't given a choice, that pat-down was a violation of my dignity. Call it what you want, but I'm going to label it molestation.

Carry on.

[RZM]

71. My first thought thought when I heard this story last night

Was that clearly Matthews does not read DU :)

[MrsCorleone]

76. Dear Tweety,

Duh!

That being said, thank you for stating the obvious.

[Vinca]

77. Until they check the cargo, it's just Homeland Security theater.

As Thom Hartmann pointed out today, Janet Napolitano says the public has to "feel safe," not that the invasion of privacy is making us safe.

[TheKentuckian]

84. I don't poll the Reich wing before deciding what is right and wrong.

The big deal is that computer assisted strip searches and groping our bodies without any basis of suspicion is a violation of our basic rights, just like if Bush was in office.

This bullshit like the Patriot Act and FISA are not some shit we used to fling at the Republicans for ammo in partisan battles.

I will not be supporting the police state because "our guys" run the apparatus. It is about as big a deal as something can be.

[krabigirl]

86. LMAO..typical. So typical.

So tired of this "team red" vs "team blue' mentality. Authoritarians and their followers are in both parties, and they both suck.

[Honeycombe8]

91. I'm not hysterical. I'm also an independent thinker. I think the scanners & searches are stupid.

I mean, they let in all that cargo without scanning it, for gosh sakes. And then they want to put their hands between the legs of a 12 year old boy or girl, for the sake of security?

Please. That's so stupid. And unnecessary. And in violation of the most personal privacy of us, the citizens. Are we really prepared to sell our privacy for the sake of fear?

What were your thoughts on the Patriot Act? The govt can spy on its citizens at random, without subpoena, and not even keep a record, for the sake of security. Since records aren't kept, you will never know if you were spied on.

This is a similar thing. In both instances, I for one think the terrorists have won, when we give away our privacy rights - the most precious right we have in this country - in order to try to catch one person in a million who might want to harm us. Rather than them looking for THAT person...they decide to violate anyone's privacy rights.

Follow the money. TSA got billions of dollars to buy those scanners. They haven't spent much $ on training the TSA workers.