"the first president in four decades with a shooting war already raging the day he took office,"

[babylonsister]

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2010/08/29/life_as_a_wartime_president.html


Life as a Wartime President


The New York Times has a compelling look at President Obama's steep learning curve on national security as "the first president in four decades with a shooting war already raging the day he took office," and his attempts to juggle two wars and a full domestic agenda.

"Along the way, he has confronted some of the biggest choices a president can make, often deferring to military advisers yet trying to shape the decisions with his own judgments -- too much at times for the Pentagon, too little in the view of his liberal base... A year and a half into his presidency, Mr. Obama appears to be a reluctant warrior. Even as he draws down troops in Iraq, he has been abundantly willing to use force to advance national interests, tripling forces in Afghanistan, authorizing secret operations in Yemen and Somalia, and escalating drone strikes in Pakistan."

NYT article here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/world/29commander.html?_r=3&pagewanted=1&hp&adxnnlx=1283097651-QpKFVlu/vO14O5VxwoKusA
For Obama, Steep Learning Curve as Chief in War

[jeanpalmer]

1. "appears to be a reluctant warrior"

doesn't appear to be reluctant really. He appears to be a full blown warrior. Where did the NYT come up with this reluctant bullshit? Did they watch the escalation? How can you reluctantly escalate a war from 30,000 soldiers to 100,000. How can you even be fooled by that crap? Just accept the obvious, he's trying to win an unwinnable war. Remember, the NYT put Judith Miller on its front page pumping the Iraq War. It has no credibility. It has never apologized for or retracted its lies. Hopefully, it goes out of business.

[babylonsister]

3. Oh, jeannie, jeannie, jeannie...don't you remember when President

Obama was making a decision about what might happen in Afghanistan, it took him months and weeks of intelligent consideration with those people who knew more than he did, and how pained his decision was?

Yea, I didn't think so. But that was reluctance personified, even if you don't care to acknowledge it.

[jeanpalmer]

5. Uhh, sending more troops is not intelligent

It may be calculating, but not intelligent. It took him months to decide what should have taken minutes, or seconds. And then, after months of deliberating, he made the wrong decision.

What's there to say about someone who makes the wrong decision, after months of deliberating?

[babylonsister]

6. It wasn't your call, you were not privy to what he was privy to,

and you have no idea why he made the decision. So pack sand, jeannie. You may not have liked the decision, and I wasn't thrilled with it, but he had his reasons WE weren't privy to.

And ps, you're very cavalier about what YOU think is right vs. what happened because no one consulted you. :rofl:

Ugh. You ain't that important, jean. I'm not either. :fistbump:

[jeanpalmer]

8. "i'm not either."

That part I can agree with. :rofl:

You don't need to consult the Oracle of Delphi to know this war is wrong, and should be ended. For someone with a conscience, it shouldn't take three months. I know what he was privy to -- a bunch of bullshit from the generals, and his political consultants. I'm not buying his line. And no real Democrat would either

He has to shape up, and start acting like a Democrat, or he and we are toast.

[Pirate Smile]

12. Oh, so you "know" what the President did was wrong AND you can define who is a

"real Democrat" too.

Wow. If only everyone else knew everything like you do. You should run for President. I'm sure you could do everything much better.

[frylock]

13. you were not privy to what he was privy to..

yeh, that's what they used to tell us about bush. you remember him?

[babylonsister]

16. I remember him well. Isn't that the guy who made snap decisions

without consulting anyone vs. taking weeks/months to consult experts, like our current President has done? Do YOU see a difference, and which approach do YOU prefer?

:eyes:

[frylock]

19. i really don't care if it takes a split second or months to reach the wrong conclusion

[Xipe Totec]

2. Sure beats having a Warped Resident don't it? n/t

[babylonsister]

4. No kidding. I welcome this thinking man. nt

[Pirate Smile]

7. Any guesses regarding who this "former adviser" is?

A former adviser to the president, who like others insisted on anonymity in order to discuss the situation candidly, said that Mr. Obama’s relationship with the military was “troubled” and that he “doesn’t have a handle on it.” The relationship will be further tested by year’s end when Mr. Obama evaluates his Afghanistan strategy in advance of his July deadline to begin pulling out. As one administration official put it, “His commander in chief role is about to get tested again, and in a very dramatic way.”

The military tries to fuck with him & box him in and he tries to avoid their traps. He & Gates are trying to change some of the funding for the "Military Industrial Complex" and the MIC is doing everything they can to avoid that from happening.

[babylonsister]

9. McChrystal? would fit all the qualifications. I don't know otherwise.

But what a job this is; I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy (well, maybe my ex-, but he's too stupid:)).

McChrystal didn't know how to zip his lip, so it could be him.

[Pirate Smile]

10. This part is interesting:

Hungry for Information

Mr. Obama has made a point of seeking his own information, scribbling questions in memo margins and scouring the Internet. At one meeting, he surprised the generals by citing a study of post-traumatic stress disorder among soldiers serving repeat tours.

“He reads a lot,” said General Jones, the national security adviser. “He studies issues before he comes to the table. That’s another thing the military mind, if there is such a thing, appreciates. When he sits down to talk about an issue, he’s done his homework.”

Facing relentless and elusive foes, Mr. Obama has turned increasingly to the sort of strikes he authorized in Yemen and the drones in Pakistan, a form of warfare with little risk to American lives even though critics question its wisdom, effectiveness or even morality.

But Mr. Obama also confronts the consequences of the direct combat he has ordered. Last year, he flew to Dover Air Force Base in Delaware to greet soldiers’ coffins. During a later meeting with advisers, Mr. Obama expressed irritation at doubters of his commitment. “If I didn’t think this was something worth doing,” he said, “one trip to Dover would be enough to cause me to bring every soldier home. O.K.?”

[babylonsister]

11. I know this President aches at what is going on.

I think he's given everyone 18 months, and hope he sends the message to get the hell out ASAP. I don't see many positive things; I'm so sick of war, as are most thinking people.

But the decisions Obama makes are not made lightly despite some clowns who think otherwise.

Thanks for reconfirming what should be obvious with this guy: decisions are not made lightly, and he's constantly thinking about the ones he has made.

[jeanpalmer]

14. Why the drama

He's THEIR commander, they're not his commander. He tells them what to do, not the other way around. That's the way it's set up, that's the way it works. He is a total pussy if he takes orders from them. My god, no wonder we're getting our asses kicked. There's no one in the WH who has a set of balls. Why do people want to make excuses for him, and give the impression he is at the generals' mercy. HE is the COMMMANDER-IN-CHIEF. If he allows himself to be "tested" by these assholes, he has only himself to blame.

[babylonsister]

15. Yea, you must miss idiot son. While Obama is thoughtful

and accepts advice from those in the field who have more info and experience than he does, you'd prefer the 'bull in the china shop approach'. THE COMMANDER RULES, PERIOD. Sorry, I don't think so, but...

That explains a lot...about you.

I for one enjoy the fact that this President listens to people vs. making hasty, ill-advised, independent decisions. Funnily enough, that's what advisors are for.

[jeanpalmer]

17. Which would you rather have

a hasty decision to end the wars? Or a drawn out "thoughtful" decision to escalate?

[babylonsister]

18. Again, I'm not privy to what he's hearing, I am not as smart

as you apparently are, and certainly not as smart as the Prez and his advisors.

I would like the war to end, period. But I'm not second guessing this guy who has all the facts at his disposal. He gave it 18 months. I'm holding fire to see what happens.

You do what you want in your infinite wisdom, and hold on to that anger instead of being thankful we have a president who doesn't just do shit and think about it later.

[jeanpalmer]

22. Keeping secrets from the people

undermines our system of government. It results in our being ruled by the elites who make the decisions based on secret information. If he has information we don't have, he has an obligation to share it with us. We deserve to know. I'm not buying the government/Obama knows better line. No blind faith in any politician.

[rpannier]

24. Actually, he has no obligation to do so

I spent time in Military Intelligence
If the information is of a sensitive nature then his obligation is to keep it out of the public sphere because it would compromise the mission and the safety of all people involved.

[babylonsister]

25. You're full of baloney. Do you honestly think we are told

everything that goes on in the WH? Sorry, they are not obliged to share everything with you, and it has nothing to do with being ruled by elites or anyone else.

You do like to trash this admin, don't you, even when you sound foolish doing so.

[Steely_Dan]

20. Yeah...I gotta agree...

However, I might have chosen different words.

-P

[opihimoimoi]

21. President is not a perfect human but he is the best we Dems have..Far better than Idiot Son

who drove the National Bus into the fucking swamp

[rpannier]

23. I'm recing this

I have had my beefs with many things the President has done, but the bold type does pretty much sum it up well.

I also agree with you (your reply to the first response) on him being privy to stuff we're not and I do like that he took his time to decide what to do, instead of running off at the mouth and making the situation worse.

[Amonester]

26. Sorry to say, not ending that unwinable war (every day) is making

the situation worse, even if some here don't like to face the (hard) truth.

[totodeinhere]

27. And the last president before Obama to be in that situation was Nixon.

And we all know how that turned out. I hope history doesn't repeat itself.