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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 11:03 AM
Original message
Today's GDP number is better than it looks.
Edited on Fri Jul-30-10 11:37 AM by Kurt_and_Hunter
First, anything below 8% (annualized) for a quarterly GDP number is bad right now. We need a string of 4-8 eye-popping quarters to even begin to eat away at unemployment. Coming out of the last 10% unemployment downturn (1981) we ripped off a year and a half of 7-9% quarters and only reduced the unemployment rate by a couple of points in the process. The Clinton era saw a lot of 7%+ action which is what it took to have a good jobs situation. (And is what balanced the budget. Boom-level growth means more taxable income and transactions and less safety-net demand... strong GDP fixes the federal alance sheet all by itelf.)

In a recovery 2-3% is tragic stuff... treading water at best.

That said, in the interest of intellectual consistency I must say that today's GDP number is not (quite) as bad as painted.

We came in at 2.4% versus 2.5%-2.7%, so the headline number fell short of expectations.

GDP includes the trade gap. The US always imports more than we export so the trade gap is a net drag on all GDP quarters in good times and bad.

When the economy fell of the table in late-2008 we put up a GDP quarter of, IIRC, -2.5%. At the time I wrote that it was much worse than that because the figure was boosted by the fact that the trade gap narrowed a lot in that quarter. Minus the 'improved' trade gap that quarter was down 4%, not 2.5%.

Since America always imports more than we export a total collapse of the US economy will improve (reduce) the trade gap. The more economic activity here the greater the trade gap will be. (I joked at the time that if America was destroyed by an asteroid we would post our best trade-gap quarter since God knows when.)

So that -2.5% quarter was adding 1.5% of supposed 'growth' that was actually a side-effect of the collapse of consumer spending during the quarter.

So today we have a GDP number that is disappointing because the trade gap was bigger than expected because American businesses were buying more stuff than expected.

That's a good thing, not a bad thing. When American businesses buy stuff (from any nation) they are expecting economic activity. They are building inventory of products or buying capital equipment. Those are good signs, not bad.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
1. Just a note on the 'trade gap'

It concentrates on the trading of 'hard' product.

It never has been an accurate picture of real trading activity and it is growing more irrelevent every day.

Take the IPOD or IPAD for example. The trade figures count the relatively low value of the manufacturing of the physical product and do not count the relatively high value of the intellectual content of the software.

Taking entertainment, as an example, the trading figures will count the delivery systems, movie projectors,Game consoles, TVs, DVDs etc. It doesn't cover the much greater value of the entertainment product, TV Shows, Movies, Electronic Games, Software.

Asian economists using a more comprehensive definition for what should be included in trading figures, including repatriated profits, argue that these models show that the US continues to sustain an export advantage.

Of course these is little compensation to the workers of the manufactured 'hard' product who are not equpped to compete for the new jobs.
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. All true.
Your comments about services, intellectual properties and royalties have always been spot on.

But increased activity in 'hard' product is a good unto itself, also.

The GDP minus relative trade features should have been our baseline throughout this crisis because it is a demand crisis fist-and-foremost, and because a tremendous amount of the US economy is based on import value-added. Walmart is probably the best single corporate indicator of American consumer activity but the trade gap goes up every time a cash register rings at Walmart. (Not literally, of course... but every time Walmart replaces a product sold.)

In current circumstances I am fairly unconcerned with relative trade however measured and quite concerned with total global economic activity--on the assumption that the world's largest economy cannot possibly recover in isolation.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. I agree except with the comment about "every time a cash register rings at Walmart".

This is where it gets complicated. If the worker in those factories gets more disposable income, takes his gf to see an American movie and buys an American electronic game then those dollars will have come back.

And now we get to the big question.

The question that no one, including Krugman, ever addresses.

Going back to the period of 1890-1930 the US went through a seismic economic change. At the begining of this time approximately 80% of the population was involved in agriculture and 20% urban. Tremendous increases in agricultural production started changing these ratios. The number one factor in increasing agricultural production is, oddly enough, transportation. The railroad allowed the terra firma to be more rationally used in the market. The reason that Teddy Roosevelt went to the badlands was to see cattle production. The railroad made it possible to raise cattle in the interrior of the country for free on unused grazing land and then take the cattle cheaply to cities for slaughter and distribution. Refigeration assisted. The average caloric intake of the urban worker increased and greater urban populations made possible (in the same way that irrigation created Angkor Wat a thousand years earlier).

The collapse of the 30's occurred during a time when millions were entering the cities, some from immigration and some from rural areas.

The industrial demands of WWII transformed the manufacturing base, both in size and efficiency of the country. The actions of the war eliminated the industrial base of Europe and Japan. After the war the US emerged as the primary manufacturing source for the world. In order to facilitate distribution of our products and establish political stability we assisted in rebuilding these other countries.

By the end of the 1960s the economic transformation was complete and 80% of the country was urban/manufacturing based and 20% (if that) was directly or indirectly involved in agricultural production. Direct agricultural production now claims about 2% of the population.

Of the 6 billion people that now inhabit the planet about 1 billion live in developed economies that mirror the US.

The other 5 billion are in economies that mirror the US from 1890-1930 with approximately 80% agricultural and 20% non agricultural.

For the last 20 years those ratios have been shifting. Eventually they will all flip and it will be 20% agricultural and 80% non agricultural.

That means that there will be approximately 3 billion people moving from subsistence agricultural to urban/manufacturing jobs.

The reason that Americans (and others) are having to work twice as hard to make half as much is that there is this surplus of unskilled labor. Increased supply overwhelms demand meaning that inevitably wages are under pressure.

Added to this the ironic fact that corporate interests are able to benefit from things like repatriated profits outside the US means that there is a growing division of wealth in developed countries, in the US where there is limited social services these effects are being felt more forcefully by the average family that now faces the haunting specter of not having access to medical services.

No one is talking about this surplus of 3 billion workers that is flowing into urban areas around the world. Of course China is the largest example. You could close every factory in China and not a single low skilled low capital job would return to the US. They would go to other markets llike SE Asia which are marginally more expensive than China but still have large excess workers. Also when Burma, N Korea become regularized politically tens of millions of workers willing to work for pennies will be added to the market in the same way that E Germany swamped the labor markets of West Germany.

When other areas like Bengladesh, Africa and middle Eastern countries become more integrated more unskilled workers will enter the market. China will then find that it is facing competition and its low income wages will stagnate as well.

It seems clear to me that second only to global warming this transition of rural to urban jobs of approximately 3 billion workers is the most important global problem we face. We need to have a working wage job not only for Frank Jenkins in Detroit but also for Xuan Ng in remote China.

Marx envisioned a completely fungible employment market. Worker one day, manager the next.

While obviously wide of the mark the fact is that increased computerization is putting more and more people into a 'fungible worker category', the same skills in Long Beach and Shanghai can accomplish the same job and must compete with each other.

We need a national policy that aggressively developes 'non fungible jobs'. Not every manufacturing job is worth fighting for. Low skill, low capital jobs are not in our competitive wheel house. We should be pursuing a mixed strategy that focuses on high skill/low capital jobs, high skill/high capital jobs. We should also, obviously, be aggresively pioneering new green industries. There are other non fungible jobs that the US should be pursuing aggresively, the best example is tourism. It is a market sector that cannot be taken elsewhere. The US remains one of the cheapest tourist destinations in the world. You can reasonably stay in a motel in the US for $ 50 per night while the rest of the world (including Asia) is going to cost you two or three times that. We also obviously have a tremendous tourist infrastructure.

The big big issue that will have a telling impact on all of our lives for the next 40 years is the transformation of other economies from primarily rural/agricultural to primarily urban economies. It means that the world is growing together into a single economic system rather than having wars in competing systems.

Somehow we need to arrive at a point where everyone who wishes to work can be guaranteed employment. Like 'warp' speed on Star Trek we know they were able to get it by having a system where everyone works and is productive, we just can see how they got there.
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Silly Grancart... what do you think wars are for?
I'm sure it will work itself out somehow...

:eyes:

Joke aside, your comments are a great post.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
2. Chicago PMI shows expansion in July

Chicago PMI shows expansion in July

by CalculatedRisk

From the Institute for Supply Management – Chicago:

The Chicago Purchasing Managers reported the CHICAGO BUSINESS BAROMETER rebounded, marking a tenth month of growth.
The overall index increased to 62.3 from 59.1. Note: any number above 50 shows expansion.

Employment improved to 56.6 from 54.2 in June.

The new orders index increased to 64.6 from 59.1.

Overall this was a positive report. The national ISM manufacturing index will be released on Monday.


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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
3. I'll take any good news you can dish out. Thanks! nt
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
4. Good explanation. I had not thought of that way..
Regardless, to me, any positive GDP should be considered a good sign compared to where we were and what could have been.
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earthside Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
6. Just like a CNBC pundit ...
... Good news is good news and bad news is good news.

Just as long as the suckers just keep on buying and selling.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Except this is not bad news. It's mixed: a little lower than expectations, but still growth. n/t
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-30-10 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. No, I am one of the greatest pessimists on DU
But having written extensively last year about the false GDP growth represented by reduction of international economic activity I am obliged to note that when the opposite happens it is equally false as GDP shrinkage.

In both cases, in a global demand-collapse crisis total economic activity is a more pressing concern than which countries are swapping what with whom.

It is, all things considered, good that imports rose more than expected last quarter.

As detailed in the OP, 2.4% is weak and isn't going to fix anything.

But the headline "Imports slow second-quarter growth" is a problem, in the same way "Reduced imports give unexpected boost to growth" was in 2008-2009.
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