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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 05:56 PM
Original message
Use Revenue from Top to Fund Stimulus

Use Revenue from Top to Fund Stimulus

John S. Irons

On July 22, 2010, EPI Research and Policy Director John Irons weighed in on an online debate about the best tax policy going forward. His response, printed below, can also be read on NationalJournal.com.

In the long-run, a comprehensive overhaul is necessary. But until that time, here’s the simple recipe:

  1. Permanently extend the tax reductions for low- and middle-income taxpayers.
  2. Repeal the tax cuts for the top.
  3. Use the increased revenue from the upper-bracket repeal for the next three years to help fund additional stimulus, including aid to state governments, unemployment insurance payments, and other job-creation policies.
Result: More jobs now, smaller deficits later (relative to a full extension).

Any questions?

(On #3, it appears that some continue to espouse the supply-side notion that higher tax rates for high-income individuals would result in lower revenue. In the past week, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell issued the remarkable claim that “there's no evidence whatsoever that the Bush tax cuts actually diminished revenue. They increased revenue, because of the vibrancy of these tax cuts in the economy.” His comments followed Senate Minority Whip Jon Kyl’s declaration that “you do need to offset the cost of increased spending… But you should never have to offset the cost of a deliberate decision to reduce tax rates on Americans.”

The reality is that Bush tax cuts resulted in a huge decline in revenue, and permanently extending the upper-income provisions would substantially worsen the long-term budget outlook. The supply-side argument rests on the notion that lower taxes would lead to an increase in economic activity so strong that it would lead to greater revenues. The economic evidence clearly shows this not to be true. For example, in a recent paper with Michael Ettlinger we find that investment, productivity, economic growth, income growth, wages, and employment did not fare noticeably better under supply-side tax regimes (following the 1981 and 2001 tax cuts) than under a non-supply-side tax regime (the 1993 tax increases). At equivalent periods in the business cycle expansion, the average annual GDP growth rate for each of these policy eras was 3.8 percent for the non-supply-side post-1993 expansion, 3.5 percent following the 1981 supply-side tax cuts, and 2.5 percent since the 2001 supply-side tax cuts.

Senators Kyl and McConnell’s claims were so egregiously unfounded that former Reagan economic adviser Bruce Bartlett felt compelled to clarify that top Bush administration economists consistently stated that the tax cuts reduced federal revenue, as was expected.

Another paper by Jeff Frankel notes that the two predominant conservative theories justifying supply-side tax cuts are inherently contradictory; the Laffer Curve, which states that tax cuts pay for themselves by generating a higher degree of economic activity, squarely contradicts the “Starve the Beast,” theory, which assumes that tax cuts increase the budget deficit and will thus force reductions in government spending. Examining the literature beyond the 1981 and 2001 tax cuts, Frankel concludes that marginal tax rates are nowhere nearly high enough for the Laffer Hypothesis to hold traction. As such, a further extension of the upper-income income Bush tax cut provisions will undoubtedly be associated with revenue losses.)


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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. Evidently, someone has a better idea. Care to share it? n/t
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. Prosense, do you advocate for additional Keynesian stimulus?
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. i'd like to know that as well
I'd prefer not to subsidize any more big bank buyouts.
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I'm more aptly referring to direct government spending on infrastructure and other programs...
Edited on Wed Jul-28-10 06:37 PM by Oregone
aimed at increasing employment (not bank bailouts)
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Why, is your responding to the OP contingent on my opinion?
Edited on Wed Jul-28-10 06:40 PM by ProSense
How long have you been wondering what I'm thinking?

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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. If you don't want to discuss the topic, why should anyone else?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. What's the topic: assuaging your curiosity?
:rofl:

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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. What do you want it to be?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. "Prosense, do you advocate for additional Keynesian stimulus?"
We have ways of making you talk!

Now, want to discuss the OP?

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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Yes or no is sufficient. Why won't you answer this question?
Are you afraid to take a stand now which may contradict the official position the administration may take at a later time?

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. What's the administration's official position?
• Short-term stimulus/long-term deficit reduction: This is where Brad DeLong, Paul Krugman and most of the White House's economic team sits. This group sees a massive gap between what the country could be producing and what it is producing, near-10 percent unemployment, and record-low interest rates that both suggest deficits are not worrying the market and make borrowing remarkably cheap for the federal government. Stimulus is not only necessary, but feasible, and both fiscal and monetary tools should be employed.


So to answer your question Yes.

Now, am I answering based on my knowledge of their position? You will never know will you?

Now, care to discuss the OP?

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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Wow...that was difficult
:)

Ok...we should form a group together...me and you, and force this Whitehouse & Congress to engage in more fiscal stimulus. Glad we are agreeing here!


"Now, care to discuss the OP?"

How about a big no shit? Of course these cuts which barely stimulate the economy should be repealed and put into real stimulus (as well as shoring up lagging state budgets).

I probably disagree a bit though, because I think they should just dump them all. Trying to pander to the middle & lower will inevitably lead to some amount of capitulation to those up top, resulting in less stimulus money available which is far more needed at the moment. Let them die, all together, and use all that money more efficiently now.

If tax fairness is still an issue, work on *raising* taxes for the top.
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backwoodsbob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
10. it isn't enough
jingle the amount recived from the tax repeal vs the yearly deficit....it doesn't come close
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Nearly $700 billion isn't enough? n/t
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backwoodsbob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. no
not when we are running 1.5 TRILLION dollar deficits
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Huh?
Stimulus isn't about reducing deficits. Often, stimulating will increase short term deficits. What its meant to do is bridge the output gap by replacing the withdrawal of private capital in the economy, and thereby stimulating demand (creating incentives for private investment).
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. I don't agree.
Right now the discussions have been in the range of $100 to $300 billion in additional stimulus.

In all likelihood, there will not be another $700 billion stimulus package, but dedicating this to spending would have a significant impact.



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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. no
Edited on Wed Jul-28-10 07:03 PM by Oregone
It probably wont close the output gap, depending on the final multiplier (since some will go to state budgets and it wont all be infrastructure). Also, I think you need to subtract ~$.30 cents injected per dollar for taking the stimulus away that the cuts probably already provide.

Besides, why not target a useful number, such as what is needed to repair the nation's infrastructure ($2.1 trillion prior to last stimulus)? Then you kill 2 birds with 1 stone. Hell, they gotta eventually spend that money anyway.
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backwoodsbob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. yeah keep saying that..one day you will believe it
the spending spree to corps has to end
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 07:05 PM
Original message
Huh?
Government infrastructure projects are now spending sprees to corps?


Now, while there will be some amount of sub-contracting, let me know if you have any better ideas.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. "$2.1 trillion prior to last stimulus"
Most economists, including Krugman, were calling for a $1.2 trillion package.

Look, a package the size of the repeal tax cuts for the rich will have a significant impact. Remember the stimulus passed last year only allocated about $550 billion to projects.

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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. I was referring to the amount required to repair infrastructure
Its necessary, in the context that people need sound infrastructure. Its gotta be done. Its probably overkill in the stimulatory sense. But isn't now as good as any time to do it?


"Look, a package the size of the repeal tax cuts for the rich will have a significant impact"

But will it close the output gap? Thats the real question here. Why let pain linger longer than necessary?
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
21. Generally correct, with a quibble
"Use the increased revenue from the upper-bracket repeal for the next three years to help fund additional stimulus."

Since the tax cuts are low-grade stimulus themselves the revenue cannot be used for additional stimulus. I can be used for dollar-for-dollar more effective stimulus. (Which includes including aid to state governments, unemployment insurance payments, and other job-creation policies.)

If the proposal in #3 is literal that's particularly good: "to help fund additional stimulus"

"Help" seems to suppose a level of stimulus above the increase in revenue.



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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. I noted something earlier that a few people might want to consider
If the cuts are providing about .30 cents of stimulus per dollar cut, and their multiplier as a stimulus would be $1.3 per every dollar spent, then they are only really putting an additional $1 dollar for every dollar spent into the economy than the status quo. Something to consider when comparing the total amount against the output gap.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Except the job creation was negligible related to the amount
So targeted effectively, $700 billion could create at least as many as the first stimulus, possibly more.



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