Van Jones: "Barack Obama volunteered to be the captain of the Titanic AFTER it hit the iceberg"

[impik]

"I Can't stand it and it's baffling when netroots bash Obama".


A-FREKING-MEN!


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/7/23/886878/-Van-Jones-is-talking-now

[NJmaverick]

1. K & R!

[MinneapolisMatt]

2. Quote of the century.

Seriously.

[impik]

3. No kidding. Quote of the century.

[Common Sense Party]

28. A quote of the century that doesn't stand up to 15 seconds' of critical thinking.

Low standards, I'd say.

[Tansy_Gold]

79. Let's see....

"He volunteered to be captain after it hit the iceberg, so it's not his fault that it's sinking."

"He volunteered to be captain after it hit the iceberg, so there's nothing at all he can do to stop it from sinking."

"He volunteered to be captain after it hit the iceberg, so nothing that happens afterward is his fault, even if he does things to make it sink faster."

"He volunteered to be captain after it hit the iceberg, so the only thing he can do is rescue the rich passengers who can reach the deck and get in the lifeboats, and let those in steerage fend for themselves."


Is that the kind of critical thinking you were thinking of?





Tansy Gold

[SunsetDreams]

80. you have quite an imagination

[Tansy_Gold]

83. The point is, Jones' comment was not logical and should not be

given credit for being "the quote of the century."

The Titanic sank and became one of the worst maritime disasters in history. There's very little ANYONE could have done to save her or her passengers after the encounter with the iceberg. Is Jones therefore saying we shouldn't expect Obama to accomplish anything at all, thus making ANY accomplishments, no matter how small, worthy of praise while we play "Nearer My God to Thee" and wait to drown in the icy waters of the north Atlantic? Even if those actions don't do anything to alter the ultimate outcome?

Understand that my comments are neither criticism nor praise for anything Obama has done -- I'm merely pointing out that Van Jones' comment, as the other poster wrote, isn't worthy of being called the quote of the century because under examination it really means the opposite of what people take it to mean.

Read my sig line.

"El ojo que ves no es ojo porque tú lo veas -- es ojo porque te ve."
The eye that you see is not an eye because you see it; it's an eye because it sees you."

In other words, things, including words, have their own identity. You can't call a chair a steak and have it be so. A chair is still a chair, a steak is still a steak. Van Jones' comment, regardless what you (or anyone else reading this post) wants to make of it, suggests that Obama voluntarily took the helm of a doomed ship, that there's nothing he can do about its fate, and that he bears no responsibility for that fate regardless what he does.

Think about it.



Tansy Gold

[Common Sense Party]

85. Well said.

[Paladin]

94. What Do You Use To Get Rid Of House Flies? An AK-47?

Think about it......

[judesedit]

105. Disagree. Unfortunately, that could have been our fate. And would have been if McCain/Palin got in

Van Jones said "after it hit the iceberg", not "after it sunk". Thank God for Obama, his intelligence, his rational thinking, his demeanor in the face of all that's on his plate through NO DOING OF HIS OWN, and his unhindered determination and persistence, there is still hope. He is doing everything possible to get this country back on track...improved. As it was in Clinton days. Remember the surplus? And it IS getting better. No, it was not perfect, but it was a hell of lot better than it was under the Bush/Cheney coup. And, personally, I blame Congress for letting it get to this point. The last administration should have been booted out immediately after finding it gained it's position unethically and illegally. Especially, after it was well know they were totally incompetent.

Once these tax cuts for the wealthy run out, we can make some progress funding the renewing of our nation's crumbling infrastructure and providing millions of jobs. Hopefully, many green jobs. I'm glad Obama is not a defeatist like you, Tansy. And the Pygmalion effect only holds true if you let it.

[judesedit]

104. Low? Definitely lack common sense.

So sad

[glitch]

93. We hired him to man the lifeboats, not replace the bandleader. IOW, too easy. nt

[babylonsister]

4. "we don't want to win the food fight, we want to end the food fight." ...

This guy is good; some great quotes from that link. Thanks!

[liberalmike27]

91. He Ain't no Roosevelt

I wonder though, how FDR would do in these times, with a completely corporate sympathetic media.

Still, to me, Obama is a bit of a disappointment. If I wanted to remember something important to this argument, I'd have to point out that the real problem lies in the Senate, where intransigent Republicans, posing as democrats, foil many of the good attempts at legislation. The filibuster, what a nightmare that is, being used four times as much as it was in the 60s, even twices as much as recent history.

And the real source of problems, the corporate citizenry, and their being able to legally buy whatever laws, or politicians, or destroy whatever politician, they want. There's your problem, and mostly, the source of a hopeless feeling I get. What can one do? Fight Club scenarios? Great movie, but absurd to think you could actually pull that off, even more that it'd end up being a positive thing.

So you end up with bend over and take it, and that small bit of represetation you get every two years or so.

[Traveling_Home]

5. That's nice but I voted for him to be the President of the United States nt

[Radical Activist]

6. Most of our left pundits seem clueless about how to push a progressive agenda.

Constantly bitching about Obama and ignoring his progressive actions isn't how you do it. It doesn't help.

[alcibiades_mystery]

11. They have ONE MODE: critique

This has been the problem for the Left since at least the New Left. They are far better at griping about shit - a good deal of it legitimate - than they are in actually producing positive change when they have the capability to do so. There's some weirdo culture of critique that views it as an end in itself rather than as a means. If you read most modern Left philosophers, they are bemoaning precisely this posture by and large: how do we have done with critique, at least for a moment.

The reaction of the ONE NOTE CRITIQUE CREW has been an excruciating and embarrassing spectacle for quite some time, but really since the Democrats took the Congress, it's been mystifying, self-destructive, and pathological.

[Radical Activist]

25. They're stuck in a rut after 30 years of conservative Presidents.

I appreciate your comment.

I've gotten to the point that I want to slap anyone in a meeting who names "raising awareness" as a goal. Yes, it's an occasionally helpful way of reaching a goal. But it isn't a goal and it's almost never enough by itself. Unless your goal is to have a happy circle jerk that doesn't change anything.

[spoony]

19. It certainly isn't helping as much as your radical activism. nt

[Radical Activist]

24. No it isn't.

I actually do things in my community and am involved in movements that do much more than whine to big brother Obama.

[spoony]

27. Of course. Radical things. Active things. nt.

[Radical Activist]

30. Yep. How about you?

[FrenchieCat]

41. Spoony is busy spooning! Leaves very little time for anything else!

:rofl:

[spoony]

51. Lol, does that mean you're busy frenching? Or being catty? nt

[FrenchieCat]

54. Not a bad gig!

[frylock]

31. that was nice

:rofl:

[Fruittree]

63. I wish more people understood that.

[Cherchez la Femme]

67. "clueless about how to push a progressive agenda"'?

Oh, y'mean like the President and his entire staff?

BTW, first time I've ever seen an Authoritarian "Radical Activist"
However do you do it?

[Radical Activist]

103. Authoritarian

is whining to big brother Obama to pass a bill that solves all of our problems for us. That's not my style of activism. I believe in mass movements, not in begging authority figures for solutions. That's the problem with authoritarian left pundits.

[Cherchez la Femme]

70. Progressive?

Obama?!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

108. Well, it's nice to know who can't see reality when it hits them in the face. (nt)

[DrToast]

7. Nice analogy

Or metaphor.

Whatever.

[Clio the Leo]

8. I hope Ed Shultz was in the room when he said that. nt

[impik]

12. He was too busy rehearsing some new RW talking points

That idiot.

[Pirate Smile]

17. No kidding.

[treestar]

9. +1000

:kick:

[Peacetrain]

10. K&R Yes he did...

[gordianot]

13. Obama knew what had happened, but so did Franklin Roosevelt.

Better management and planning, less arrogance, filling all the lifeboats, even focusing on the rules of the day (women and children first), would have saved many on the Titanic. Even if more were saved on the Titanic historians would have focused on the lives lost, similar modern news media.

Never give up!

[impik]

15. Actually, Obama didn't know

how *really* bad the economy was. Go read Jonathan Alter's book. They were all stunned when they begun the transition and saw the reports and forecasts.

As for FDR, it took him years to get out of the depression, it didn't happen as quickly as people tell themselves. And, when he came in, he didn't have any wars. Not to mention that he had 4 terms.

[gordianot]

23. To this day I doubt anyone including Obama really knows how bad it really is on the long term.

I have read parts of Alter's book, in time we may find out from Obama what he knew in those days. Information was out there well before September and October 2008.

FDR may not have had any immediate wars but he did face a potential and almost immediate coup thwarted by General Smedly Butler at home (The Plot to Seize the White House, Jules Archer). There is still debate as to how or if Keynesian Economics really ended the depression. I have no illusions, our problems on this crash will be with us for a long time. Today's world is a much more dangerous place since the 1930's but FDR's time was not easy as events unfolded. At least Barack Obama is an adult and shows capacity to learn on the job. He is also burdened with the 48 hour news cycle something FDR never contended with in his day.

[avaistheone1]

61. How could Obama not know. Anyone widely read and paying attention knew.

Regarding Roosevelt, FDR took off like champ with his programs from day one of his administration and the economy showed significant results almost immediately. I refer to Krugman's chart "Full Employment Deficit as a Share of Potential National Product, 1922 - 1941".

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/08/new-deal-economics/





Roosevelt's "First 100 Days" concentrated on the first part of his strategy: immediate relief. From March 9 to June 16, 1933, he sent Congress a record number of bills, all of which passed easily. To propose programs, Roosevelt relied on leading Senators such as George Norris, Robert F. Wagner and Hugo Black, as well as his Brain Trust of academic advisers. Like Hoover, he saw the Depression caused in part by people no longer spending or investing because they were afraid.

His inauguration on March 4, 1933 occurred in the middle of a bank panic, hence the backdrop for his famous words: "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."<51> The very next day Congress passed the Emergency Banking Act which declared a "bank holiday" and announced a plan to allow banks to reopen. However, the number of banks that opened their doors after the "holiday" was fewer than the number that had been open before.<52> This was his first proposed step to recovery. To give Americans confidence in the banks, Roosevelt signed the Glass-Steagall Act that created the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC).
Dorothea Lange's Migrant Mother depicts destitute pea pickers during the depression in California, centering on Florence Owens Thompson, a mother of seven children at age 32, March 1936.

* Relief measures included the continuation of Hoover's major relief program for the unemployed under the new name, Federal Emergency Relief Administration. The most popular of all New Deal agencies, and Roosevelt's favorite, was the Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC), which hired 250,000 unemployed young men to work on rural local projects. Congress also gave the Federal Trade Commission broad new regulatory powers and provided mortgage relief to millions of farmers and homeowners. Roosevelt expanded a Hoover agency, the Reconstruction Finance Corporation, making it a major source of financing to railroads and industry. Roosevelt made agriculture relief a high priority and set up the first Agricultural Adjustment Administration (AAA). The AAA tried to force higher prices for commodities by paying farmers to take land out of crops and to cut herds.
* Reform of the economy was the goal of the National Industrial Recovery Act (NIRA) of 1933. It tried to end cutthroat competition by forcing industries to come up with codes that established the rules of operation for all firms within specific industries, such as minimum prices, agreements not to compete, and production restrictions. Industry leaders negotiated the codes which were then approved by NIRA officials. Industry needed to raise wages as a condition for approval. Provisions encouraged unions and suspended anti-trust laws. The NIRA was found to be unconstitutional by unanimous decision of the U.S. Supreme Court on May 27, 1935. Roosevelt opposed the decision, saying "The fundamental purposes and principles of the NIRA are sound. To abandon them is unthinkable. It would spell the return to industrial and labor chaos."<53> In 1933, major new banking regulations were passed. In 1934, the Securities and Exchange Commission was created to regulate Wall Street, with 1932 campaign fundraiser Joseph P. Kennedy in charge.
* Recovery was pursued through "pump-priming" (that is, federal spending). The NIRA included $3.3 billion of spending through the Public Works Administration to stimulate the economy, which was to be handled by Interior Secretary Harold Ickes. Roosevelt worked with Republican Senator George Norris to create the largest government-owned industrial enterprise in American history, the Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA), which built dams and power stations, controlled floods, and modernized agriculture and home conditions in the poverty-stricken Tennessee Valley. The repeal of prohibition also brought in new tax revenues and helped him keep a major campaign promise.
* Executive Order 6102 made all privately held gold of American citizens property of the US Treasury. The goal was to counter the



Honestly do you really think Obama's 100 days in any way measures up to FDR's?

[Cherchez la Femme]

71. Now you gone and done it

...messed up some perfectly good propaganda.

Damm you! *shaking fist feebly* :7

[uponit7771]

64. FDR had an 83% congress to work with, Obama does not

[Stoic]

82. FDR didn't have 83% Dems in Congress when he began

But when he implemented his "radical" policies in the first 100 days of his new administration he rallied the people behind him and by the next election had the super-majority he needed to build the New Deal reforms that protected us until Reagan and the Conserva-Dems began dismantling them.

Which is what I hoped President Obama had done when he first took office. Silly me.

[Stoic]

14. And he's doing an excellent job rearranging the deck chairs. n/t

[impik]

16. Heee. Whatever.

[spoony]

18. Uh huh, and Obama then said, "further into the iceberg, full speed ahead!" nt

[Name removed]

33. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tbyg52]

84. While the corporatists were hijacking the lifeboats. nt

[geek tragedy]

20. Ha. Don't expect the bashers to give what he says any credit. nt

[Common Sense Party]

21. And he keeps circling round and round the iceberg, trying to see

how many times he can hit it.


BTW, Mr. Jones, your analogy implies that our country is a hopeless cause and we will inevitably sink.

[spoony]

26. Excellent point, and in the same breath he wants us to hope.

If we're on the Titanic, hope in what? A not-too-painful and/or quick demise? So much for the 'brilliant analogy' people are praising.

[citizen477]

45. Well, the Titanic did have survivors who lived...

to tell the tale. The question is who will be the survivors of this particular sinking? Clearly, American society is declining, but it's going to take more than the President to prevent this disaster.

[Political Tiger]

29. Seems some people are hoping for it to sink. n/t

[spoony]

38. Yeah, Obama's fans. They keep saying they hope we're punished with a GOP presidency.

Because....because...we don't deserve heeeeeeeeem!

[JoePhilly]

43. Seems his detractors want a GOP President far more.

[deacon]

56. Thats for sure. n/t

[Cherchez la Femme]

73. Yup, yup,

his detractors, who would criticize anyone in the same position: D, R, or Other, as their conscience dictates
--and being progressives, to boot--
"want a GOP President far more."

Yep, your ability to tease out facts and come to a realistic conclusion remains unchanged.
Yup yup yup. :hi:

[Joe Bacon]

88. Millions of Christians want this ship to sink.

All of my brainwashed family prays for the removal of Obama. They rejoice with every failure he has had. Still remember when they boasted of how their whole congregation cheered when Chicago lost their olympic bid. They worship the ground Palin walks on and they're convinced that Jesus will rapture them in a week or 2.

Only makes me hate Christianity more.

[impik]

34. So Van Jones is under the bus too now?

Of course he is.

[spoony]

39. Oh, the bus. ANOTHER concept none of you understand.

Add that to woodchucks and my list above.

[druidity33]

22. It's a good line...

but it's just a line. Don't get excited, there will be plenty to bash about in the coming years if the first 1+ is any indication. It is, after all, a sinking ship.

:shrug:

[Lugnut]

32. K&R n/t

[Phx_Dem]

35. [phone]

[slay]

36. To bad he's not a very good captain

he's not and no amount of pro-Obama propaganda can change that fact. He's better than a republican, but that's about it. I see little to no progress on real health care reform, getting out of these pointless wars, seeing that people have jobs, etc. I know the congress is THE big problem, yet he COULD put forth a true progressive vision - but he has not and does not because he is not a progressive. He's a corporatist. The people he works for - the corporations - have done quite well under Obama. The average guy, not so much. Obama is caught up playing politics like it's a game, AND playing by Republican rules. It's not a game (even though many blue-dog Dems on here would disagree with me), it's about real people, with real lives, who are in real trouble.

Van Jones doesn't understand - we wanted a leader, we wanted campaign trail Obama minus the war shit - but what we got was a man who has betrayed liberals and progressives at every turn. And we're just supposed to shut up and tow the party line? Not likely Mr. Jones, not likely.

[cottonseed]

37. Van Jones is used to actually doing things. A much different perspective than the average DUer.

That's probably why he made the comment.

[Common Sense Party]

40. And a much different perspective than our President.

Talking and doing are very disparate things.

[BzaDem]

57. Yes they are. You talk, he does. n/t

[jefferson_dem]

75. "Talking and doing are very disparate things."

Indeed. The abject irony of your post is astounding.

[avaistheone1]

58. Ahh...do you really know the average DUer?

Doubt it.

[cottonseed]

60. The the hysterics I see around here. I doubt many are decision makers.

[avaistheone1]

62. Less hysterical and kneejerk

than the White House....particularly given the most recent flap.

[Cherchez la Femme]

69. Oh how sweet

so we're hysterical now?

You should be ashamed.

[Cherchez la Femme]

68. Right, cause Dem's don't work & are on welfare or Unemployment

Rush? Glen? BillO?

Right?

Right?!

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

110. No, because you're a fucking moron and think tapping on the internet is "doing something" (nt)

[Raineyb]

92. I'd say he as much about the average DUer as you do.

That is to say not a god-damned thing.

[WonderGrunion]

52. The 41 million Americans that no longer have to pay

for things like mammograms, diabetic tests, cancer screenings and the like disagree strongly with you that there is no progress on health care reform.

[Cleobulus]

65. Great, so they will know exactly what will kill them when they don't have the money to treat it...

that's an improvement.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

109. No, YOU don't understand that you got a leader.

Eventually, you might figure that out, but I won't hold my breath.

[Spitzbub]

42. Who the eff is Van Jones?

I like the president. I very much admire him. I worked for the man. But I'm ON THE SIDE of the working man.

When the president moves in a way that is against the interests of the working man, I will push him in the right direction, or I will oppose him.

Jones probably said many things and this statement is the one led with by the reporter. But no sir, I will not lie down. I will not march in blind lockstep like the Bush cult I so despised.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

111. Rotting tree sock puppet, eh?

You're in a cult alright...

[JoeyT]

44. So what y'all are saying is:

That it's more important to have perpetual echo chambers than it is to have people voice dissent?
Yay! Cheer! Best quote evar!

When you're THAT wound up in the personal life of a politician, you're trying to create a cult of personality, not a support group.

[girl gone mad]

46. Just like on the real Titanic, the rich were first on the lifeboats...

while steerage was left to drown.

[laughingliberal]

78. Now, that's the perfect analogy and, perhaps, a clue to the divide we see here.

Those of us down here is steerage where the water is still rising are hoping for lifeboats we haven't seen yet. Those who have already been safely rescued are quite content.

Did you see the news yesterday that Wall Street expects a record bonus year?

[fascisthunter]

86. .

how dare we huh?

[firedupdem]

47. K&R n/t

[Diane R]

48. Agree wholeheartedly.

[npk]

49. And like the real Titanic

Only the wealthy will get off the ship with their lives intact.

[Bette Noir]

50. That's a very gallant thing for him to say, given that he was fired on Fox's orders.

Mr. President is learning, though-- he un-fired Ms. Sherrod as soon as he could.

[ejbr]

53. If Obama pushes for Elizabeth Warren,

then we're having a conversation.

[Cherchez la Femme]

74. I'll agree with that...

After almost 2 years, at least it's a start!

[deacon]

55. He's kick'n ass. n/t k + r

[marlakay]

59. I guess thats the best way to put it

As much as I hate a bunch of crap going on now, I wouldn't want to be in charge of this mess or trying to get our congress to do anything.

[uponit7771]

66. VERY accurate

[DCBob]

72. Excellent analogy..

except in this case the ship has not sunk.. yet.

[judesedit]

76. Absolutely right on!

Van Jones: "Barack Obama volunteered to be the captain of the Titanic AFTER it hit the iceberg"

Put that sign in your car window along with any other truths you feel strongly about. We cannot let the GOP mafia take over this country ever again. And I repeat... "EVER"!

Make some bumper stickers. Do everything you can to stop these GOP crooks from brainwashing average Americans. Be as repetitious as necessary. Time to fight fire with fire.

[RedCloud]

77. Nobody forced Obama to surround himself with right wing zealots in his cabinet.

Imagine if Ralph had gotten involved in the greening of America.

[SunsetDreams]

81. K&R, so true

[Fire1]

87. Van's attitude is quite commendable under the

circumstances. Hopefully, I'll be like that when I grow up. Class Act.

[pansypoo53219]

89. the far left forgot the reality they live in.

i grudgingly accept i will never have what i want, unless i move to sweden.

[aquart]

98. I haven't forgotten a thing. Silence is consent.

You "grudgingly accept"? Well, how nice for you. I don't accept. I will keep bitching, thank you. They want praise for inadequate crumbs? Not from me. The last thing the left needs is for the Democratic Party to take our votes for granted.

Let our party leaders and our elected representatives worry every damn day of their lives that we will be so disgusted with them we might well stay home. Let them fear losing us MORE than they fear losing the so-called independents.

They abandoned single payer BEFORE they began discussing healthcare. I am never going to forgive that.

A rich man has only one vote unless you give him yours. Let's not keep doing that, okay?

[Name removed]

90. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DFW]

95. Well, technically, McCain volunteered, too.....

The difference is that Obama knew that there had been a collision with an iceberg.

McCain would have said,"What iceberg? And, come to think of it, what's an iceberg?"

[aquart]

96. Brilliant analogy.

[LiberalLovinLug]

97. The story so far....

The black cabin boy who worked his way up to ship crew status was smarter than anyone else on the boat and jumped up right after the ship hit the iceburg and shouted, "Elect me your captain and I'll do things differently to get you out of this mess"

So in spite of the good amount of racists and traditionalist rich aristocracy on board who voted against him, the majority prevailed and Obama became captain.

He immediately backed the ship up as much as was still possible. Then with a nod and a wink to the old guard crew that were still loyal to the previous captain, he ordered the ship forward again. "Full steam ahead! Only this time we will hit the iceburg just slightly to the left of where we hit it the last time!"

Later as the last of the ship was going under, the Captains best mate Jonesy shook his head and whispered his exasperation. "If only all those folks that voted for you had supported you more, then you'd not be in this mess"

the end

[RagAss]

99. That is Campaign 2012 ..Right Fucking There !!!!!!!

[Bobbie Jo]

100. File this one under...No Shit.

K&R :kick:

[Scurrilous]

101. Kick

:kick:

[Ross K]

102. Good quote!

[Spagettio]

106. Van Jones deserves a position in our government

Go Van!

[Skittles]

107. um, we voted for him to be PRESIDENT

a DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT