Keith's Special Comment just now: DON'T Fire McChrystal

[jenmito]

It was unexpected (to me)-Don't accept his resignation if offered, but thank him for it, put it in his drawer, and tell him he's got to go back to Afghanistan and finish this war. Don't let him get out of this war strategy HE wanted.

He should tell him to stick to the date of the draw-down or get the troops out even quicker. He, unlike Bush, should listen to his commanders on the ground and then order him to do as he says. Then, nobody will be able to attack Obama for getting rid of him.

I disagree with him, but it's something to think about, I guess.

[babylonsister]

1. Another thread here-all food for thought:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8615562

and I agree, it's something to think about, unexpected by me also.

[jenmito]

3. Thanks. I'll join that discussion. n/t

[Cleita]

2. KO is not the President.

I'm sure President Obama will do what he thinks needs to be done.

[treestar]

4. What would we do without Keith to tell us all what to do

And he didn't even have to run for and win the Presidency to get to tell us all!

If it weren't for Keith and Rachel, no President would know what to do!!! :sarcasm:

Presidents need to create a Secretary of Pundity and Comedy, so that the comedians can allow us to benefit from their incredible wisdom!

[babylonsister]

6. Can I just say... Keith gave valid reasons for

McCrystal to stay on board that no one else has broached. I like hearing both sides of an argument, but Obama will make the ultimate decision after weighing the pros and cons of keeping him.

I do fear a summer of 'incompetence by the Obama admin-just ask McCrystal', but that will happen regardless of what is decided tomorrow.

[vaberella]

7. I haven't a clue. But many came to his support when he was going nutty on Obama's speech.

I can't for those same people to hear this. I doubt they'll come to his defense now.

[elleng]

27. The old Court Jester.

[Berry Cool]

36. What would Keith do without you to tell him what to do

And you didn't even have to get hired to host a show on MSNBC!

If it weren't for DUers, no TV pundit would know what to do! :sarcasm:

TV pundits need to hire Keyboard Commandos from the Internets, so that we can allow them to benefit from our incredible wisdom!

[treestar]

50. I could do it as well as he does

I just don't have the friends in high places.

But I have a more useful job. One that is needed in society.

No one really needs these entertainers. There are plenty of sources of entertainment.

[TwilightGardener]

5. I just disagree with this. Obama will essentially lose all respect by the military

if he lets this go, AND allowing McC to go back to work like nothing happened will send a very bad message to the troops over there (message being, "Your CiC is an ineffective wimp, and I told him so--his policies and staff are harming you. Good luck out there, stay safe").

[MadMaddie]

17. Yep! Insubordination is not acceptable.

McC would demote or fire someone below him for the same behavior.

[gateley]

8. Just looked at the thread babylonsister linked to - I LIKE the idea of demoting him him.

and having him pushing papers in some snoozy locale.

[dave29]

9. Keith does not understand this is not just a political calculation, it's a safety issue for our

troops, and on top of that, one that echoes through history either way. Presidents fire generals. Sometimes it is for the best.

[TwilightGardener]

12. Yes--thank you. This would have HUGE implications for discipline

within the ranks, and also diminish civilian leadership over the military. There are other officers who can and will take command, Obama needs to find one and move on. Plus, anything like making McC his "bitch" or trying to shame him or demote him while keeping him in command is just silly political payback garbage that will not help our efforts in Afghanistan.

[SaveAmerica]

47. YES, YES, YES!!!!!!

[ClarkUSA]

10. No, it is basically Biden's war strategy. KO started out as a TV sportscaster and it shows. n/t

[babylonsister]

14. What is basically Biden's war strategy?

I don't understand, but this I do. And ftr, it seems mccrystal and Biden do not get along, as witnessed by the disparaging remarks that were made in the RS article about Biden:

McChrystal’s counter-insurgency plan is failing. It’s failing not because some of his aides said mean things about Biden, and not because he’s got a long-running spat with Karl Eikenberry, our Ambassador to Afghanistan. It’s failing because the Special Ops guys, whom McChrystal led killing bunches of people in Iraq, are not hard-wired to win hearts and minds. It’s failing because both the tools at McChrystal’s disposal (a bunch of JSOC guys) and the conditions on the ground mean counterterrorism, not counterinsurgency, is the best approach: precisely what Biden argued during the Afghan policy review.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x351043

[Jennicut]

33. Counter insurgency, not COIN. Targeting Al al Qaeda, not the entire Taliban.

And using Pakistan as a partner. Limited strikes, pullback of forces.
Counterinsurgency is very, very difficult to do in an area dominated by tribal Taliban leaders. And it would make the country more dependent on the US, not less. COIN means to people like McChrystal basically staying for an unknown time, because it is so hard to implement there. Draw down the troops, train some Afghanis, work out some deals with certain Taliban leaders, go after some big name Al Qaeda members and then leave. No other option exists there except pulling back and eventually getting out.

[ClarkUSA]

40. Biden favored a lighter footprint which favored targeting terrorists w/predator drones.

The Rolling Stone article, which quoted several McChrystal aides anonymously, portrays a split between the U.S. military and Obama's advisers at an extremely sensitive moment for the Pentagon, which is fending off criticism of its strategy to turn around the Afghanistan war.
It quotes a member of McChrystal's team making jokes about Vice President Joe Biden, who was seen as critical of the general's efforts to escalate the conflict and who had favored a more limited counter-terrorism approach.

http://www.acus.org/new_atlanticist/mcchrystals-loose-lips-may-sink-afghan-ship

Just as he had done in the spring, Mr. Biden expressed opposition to an expansive strategy requiring a big troop influx. Instead, he put an alternative on the table — rather than focus on nation building and population protection, do more to disrupt the Taliban, improve the quality of the training of Afghan forces and expand reconciliation efforts to peel off some Taliban fighters.

Mr. Biden quickly became the most outspoken critic of the expected McChrystal troop request, arguing that Pakistan was the bigger priority, since that is where Al Qaeda is mainly based. “He was the bull in the china shop,” said one admiring administration official.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/06/world/asia/06reconstruct.html?pagewanted=all

In September, the conservative pundit George Will published an influential column in the Washington Post, “Time to Get Out of Afghanistan,” arguing that “America should do only what can be done from offshore, using intelligence, drones, cruise missiles, air strikes and small, potent Special Forces units, concentrating on the porous 1,500-mile border with Pakistan, a nation that actually matters.” Vice-President Joseph Biden reportedly holds a similar view.

Read more: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/10/26/091026fa_fact_mayer#ixzz0rdlYuwAn

The Obama administration has more than doubled the number of drone strikes. Some influential policymakers, including Vice- President Joe Biden, advocate relying even more heavily on drones to fight al-Qaeda and the Taliban, to keep US soldiers out of battle.

Read more: http://coyoteprime-runningcauseicantfly.blogspot.com/2010/06/predators-warriors-and-ravens-cia.html

I suspect that this difference of strategic opinion is the source of Team McChrystal's disdain and dislike for VPOTUS.

[babylonsister]

41. Thanks. I misunderstood your post, because it sounded like

you thought Biden's and McCrystal's were one and the same.

[Berry Cool]

37. Ah, once again the old "He used to be a sportscaster, so he must be stupid" canard.

Nothing like judging people based on their past careers or assuming that all people with an interest in sports are stupid.

[Stuart G]

11. If Obama clarifies that he will definitely draw down,

troops when he said he will. Then when Mc Chrystal's strategy fails, as it will, then the nightmare will be over. Out of Iraq, and out of Afghanistan.

Ending this nightmare sooner, will probably be impossible. If we end it when it was promised, with no time after that. that is ok with me.

Just end this.
End it now, but that is impossible. So end it after 6 more months. Whatever is the shortest possible time. Let this jackass take the fall.
........... Mc Chrystal deserves as much..

[Vattel]

13. Olbermann doesn't seem to understand the situation.

McChrystal is a repeat offender. He was given a second chance and he failed. He has to go and he will. The only possible good reason to keep him would be if geting rid of him would undermine our war effort in Afghanistan. I don't see that getting rid of him will have negative political consequences for Obama. Not getting rid of him would.

[Phx_Dem]

18. He's a loose cannon who undermines everything, and you're right

this is not his first offense. And this offense wasn't a single utterance, but many over a period of weeks.

This guy is bad news and he's got to go.

[senseandsensibility]

21. He understands.

Jonathan Alter was on his show right before he gave his special comment. He gave Keith the FULL story of all the General's transgressions going back to November 09 and before. Everything. Keith heard every word. Those that haven't heard Alter's interview should listen. It was the most cogent and complete assessment of the situation imaginable.
edited to add that I am having a brain freeze and can't remember if Alter was on Keith or Hardball or Shultz. If anyone can correct me on this, I'd appreciate it.

[Mr. Sparkle]

15. I think we should bare in mind that they are going to attack Obama no matter what.

So that should not be used as an factor when deciding what the best thing to do is.

The main thing to consider is, if McChrystal is competent and whether or not he is doing a good job, imo.

[Phx_Dem]

16. I have feeling that's the way Obama will go. I hope I'm wrong.

If McChrystal has no faith in the strategy (his strategy, btw) and no faith in his superiors, then how are the troops supposed to have faith in him or the strategy?

[babylonsister]

19. Maybe the troops will have faith in their president.Just a thought. nt

[Phx_Dem]

22. I hope they already do, but McChrystal would be their direct commander

and the person directed to implement the very strategy he disavows.

[babylonsister]

26. He's disavowing it because he hasn't competently carried it out.

IMO. I have no idea how this will shake out, but as I've said elsewhere, I would love this to go away so rethugs don't have the ammunition of McCrystal to use against the Dems.

Lots of strategy involved, and I am pissed at McCrystal, too. But KO gave me another POV to think about. The President will have quite a day tomorrow. McCrystal? Meh. Who cares.

[senseandsensibility]

23. I have the same sinking feeling.

:-(

[jenmito]

29. So do I, since today he said that the most important thing is doing what's best

for the troops. I hope that means getting rid of him, but if he doesn't have a great replacement, he probably won't do it.

[Robeson]

35. I, too, hope you are wrong.

[flyarm]

20. Why Keith?? how many special commentaries did Keith do about this scum bag??

How many times did Keith do special commentaries about Sy Hersh's reports about this scum fucker??????/

How many times did Keith say this guy was a war criminal when he worked for Bush???????????


What is Keith worried about????????NOW????????

Perhaps this will become common knowledge Keith??????????

Hersh: U.S Executing Afghan Prisoners

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=126589§ionid=351020403

As the Afghan occupation continues to prove troublesome for the Obama administration, a report says US-led troops torture and execute prisoners in the country. Seymour Hersh, an investigative journalist with the New Yorker, made the revelation during the Global Investigative Journalism Conference in Geneva.

"I'll tell you right now, one of the great tragedies of my country is that Mr. Obama is looking the other way, because equally horrible things are happening to prisoners, to those we capture in Afghanistan," Hersh said. He also alleged that US forces were engaged in 'battlefield executions' and other heinous offences, Raw Story reported. "They're being executed on the battlefield. It's unbelievable stuff going on there that doesn't necessarily get reported. Things don't change," Hersh noted.

Hersh who worked for many years at The New York Times also helped break the story that detainees at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq were being tortured by their US jailers. The report comes as the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) has recently confirmed reports about the existence of a secret detention facility at a US airbase in Bagram in Afghanistan.

Human rights groups say Bagram and other US-ran jail facilities have remained US torture centers since the toppling of the Taliban regime in Afghanistan nine years ago. However, US officials claim that all inmates in the facility are treated humanely.

[northernlights]

24. I respectfully disagree

It doesn't matter whether anybody attacks Obama for getting rid of him. What matters is undoing the effing mess he's made of Afghanistan. From the Rolling Stone article, it looks like the new strategy is to revert to the "Bite Me"...I mean Biden strategy that McChrystal sneered at a year ago.

At this point, I for one don't give a flying fuck whether or not somebody launches a political attack on Obama. People's lives are at stake here. Our entire fucking economy is at stake here. McCrystal's strategy has been an enormously expensive FAIL. Costly in lives. Costly in treasure. Costly in everything. And unmitigated disaster that was foreseen by a lot of overlooked generals and war strategists.

Fire him. Get the fuck rid of him. This time, though, think about who you choose, Mr. President. Please. Your appointments have been one disaster after another. Get this thing on the right track now. Pick somebody who will get us the fuck out of Afghanistan. Now.

[Justitia]

44. + 100

[Clio the Leo]

25. .... was stupid. nt

[Unvanguard]

28. I think Olbermann is probably correct.

Don't let McChrystal and his supporters blame Obama's decision to fire him if our efforts in Afghanistan fail. Make him responsible.

[Catherina]

30. Not accurate. That was not McChrystal's strategy

They've been pursuing Biden's strategy down there. McChrystal was against Biden's strategy from the start and that's where the trouble really started. Gates and National Security Adviser James L. Jones publicly admonished McChrystal last year for making a public comment about that. McChrystal told the Obama administration that there was no way he could do what they wanted in Afghanistan unless they sent him 40,000 more troops. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/06/world/06gates.html?_r=1

Within 24 hours of the leak of the Afghanistan assessment to The Washington Post, General Stanley McChrystal's team fired its second shot across the bow of the Obama administration. According to McClatchy, military officers close to General McChrystal said he is prepared to resign if he isn't given sufficient resources (read "troops") to implement a change of direction in Afghanistan:

Adding to the frustration, according to officials in Kabul and Washington, are White House and Pentagon directives made over the last six weeks that Army Gen. Stanley McChrystal, the top U.S. military commander in Afghanistan, not submit his request for as many as 45,000 additional troops because the administration isn't ready for it.
In the last two weeks, top administration leaders have suggested that more American troops will be sent to Afghanistan, and then called that suggestion "premature." Earlier this month, Adm. Michael Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said that "time is not on our side"; on Thursday, Secretary of Defense Robert Gates urged the public "to take a deep breath."

...

In Kabul, some members of McChrystal's staff said they don't understand why Obama called Afghanistan a "war of necessity" but still hasn't given them the resources they need to turn things around quickly.

Three officers at the Pentagon and in Kabul told McClatchy that the McChrystal they know would resign before he'd stand behind a faltering policy that he thought would endanger his forces or the strategy.


"Yes, he'll be a good soldier, but he will only go so far," a senior official in Kabul said. "He'll hold his ground. He's not going to bend to political pressure."

On Thursday, Gates danced around the question of when the administration would be ready to receive McChrystal's request, which was completed in late August. "We're working through the process by which we want that submitted," he said.

...

Today, the military is perceiving that the administration is punting the question of a troop increase in Afghanistan, and the military is even questioning the administration's commitment to succeed in Afghanistan. The leaking of the assessment and the report that McChrystal would resign if he is not given what is needed to succeed constitute some very public pushback against the administration's waffling on Afghanistan.

Read more: http://www.longwarjournal.org/threat-matrix/archives/2009/09/mcchrystal_to_resign_if_not_gi.php

It's an immoral, impossible war. Get out of there.

McChrystal is not an honorable man. The bipartisan wars against Iraq and Afganistan based on a pack of lies are not honorable. There's no honor in killing hundreds of thousands of women and children and creating millions of refugees. Get out of Afghanistan now.

[caledesi]

31. Well said! nt

[Catherina]

32. Thank you Caledesi. I added a few more sentences at the end

This war upsets me to no end. We have no business there killing innocent people and lusting after their oil, pipelines and mineral deposits. Thou shalt not covet they neighbor's goods.

Thank you

[caledesi]

52. You are very welcome. I hate war too. nt

[Robeson]

34. Olbermann was wrong...

...IMHO. And - unusual for him - he really didn't make a strong case for his point of view.

[Berry Cool]

38. I thought he did.

YMMV.

[Robeson]

39. Well, we all view the feather differently.

[ProudDad]

42. Who cares?

One torturer or another, who cares?

Innocent folks will die and nothing will be gained...

Except the heroin trade -- it'll roll right along...probably with CIA/USMilitary help again...

[Justitia]

43. BZZZZZZZZZT! Sorry Keith - wrong answer!

I love Keith, but he is wrong sometimes and tonight he is VERY WRONG.

He'll figure it out, ha.

[AtomicKitten]

45. After watching KO and Rachel, it seemed obvious to me

that Pres Obama should call McChrystal's bluff and agree with his assessment that the war is un-winnable with the resources available and the time lines drawn in cement. He should announce withdrawal from Iraq, accept McChrystal's apology, and charge him with withdrawing the troops.

That's what I'd like to see happen.

[SaveAmerica]

46. First time I've EVER disagreed with KO, save the date, Mcchrystal has to go

It is clear he has his own agenda and his insubordination is wrong on many levels, how can you teach young troops to stick with their brothers and follow their CiC's orders if this fool isn't?

Obama shouldn't have to tell this man to stick to anything, he should do it automatically, sir effen YES SIR!!!

AND SCREW anyone who wants to attack Obama for getting rid of him. We have a plan, we need to stick with it and get these guys home.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

48. For many months, I've argued that Keith, Rachel, Tweety and sometimes Ed get on my nerves.

And now they're getting on my FUCKING NERVES!!!!!

WIth these people, who needs Faux News? They are doing Faux's job for Faux. :puke::puke:

[treestar]

49. I'll let the President decide, thank you, Keith

He has access to the information. You're just a blowhard.

[emulatorloo]

51. 1. Obama has a deadline of June 2011. 2. McChrystal wants to be there forever

So this isn't like Bush firing "truth-tellers"

Honestly I think Olbermann has been behaving pretty erratically recently. I still enjoy his show, but I am not going to take his opinion as a commandment to follow.

[vaberella]

53. Exactly. n/t