I just got a "Robo Call" from Gen. Wes Clark here in NC asking me to vote for Cal Cunningham!

[KoKo]

Cal Lost in the Primary to our former Sec. of State Elaine Marshall...and he should have dropped out of the race.

Cal is sending me "Glossy" 5 by 10 photos of himself and how he's "NOT Elaine Marshall."

But, I am a supporter of Elaine Marshall..and yet the Dem Party says it's Neutral in this race. So why is Wes Clarke supporting Cal Cunningham who lost to Elaine Marshall in the Primary and where is Cal getting the money to send out "Glossies" and to get big wigs like "General Clark" to support him?

Is this the DLC doing this support for "Cal Cunningham" quietly AGAINST Elaine Marshall?

Elaine is only surviving on small donors like me....but CAL CUNNINGHAM has folks like WES CLARK supporting him?

RESULTS OF PRIMARY:

http://www.buzzbox.com/news/2010-05-13/elaine-marshall:north-carolina/


Politics Daily — Elaine Marshall, who bested Cal Cunningham in last week's Democratic Senate primary by 36 percent to 27 percent, now finds herself in a tie with him as they head towards a June 22 runoff.

:shrug:

[demhistorian]

1. eeeeeek!

The DLC! Under my bed, in my closet, staring back at me in my cheerios every morning.

[KoKo]

4. Lot's of DU'ers felt that Gen. Clark should have been Pres Nominee..this doesn't look good for him

that he would support a DINO that the Dem Party claims they are neutral on...but he's sending ROBO CALL AFTER ROBO CALL and GLOSSY BIG PICTURE STUFF against ELAINE!

If the DEM Party isn't supporting "CAL" then WHERE IS THE MONEY FOR HIS BIG CAMPAING COMING FROM?

I know for a fact that Elaine's campaign is surviving on little folks like me giving her a few bucks !

[demhistorian]

8. which has what to do with DLC-phobia?

[karynnj]

29. Even in the non- netroots, there was a huge suge of interest in Clark in 2004

The initial media was impossibly positive, knight in shiny armor type stuff. There were elements that diminished the "themes" of all the main candidates. He, like Dean, could claim to have never supported the war - which in reality was true for Dean, Clark and Kerry - all of whom were publicly against the invasion (but Kerry's vote made things muddy in his case). Like Kerry, he had both military and foreign policy experience - the two issues that were top on people's lists.

He had little public record, so I think people were able to see what they wanted. Nothing that Clark did here, or supporting Lincoln, or supporting Hillary Clinton takes anything away from the man he was in 2004. He did argue against attacking Iraq. He did run on an otherwise standard Democratic platform. Had the 2004 campaign not quickly been won by Kerry - and been more like 2008, it is likely that people would have seen that Clark was not a flaming liberal, but a career military man, who likely on other issues was more conservative than his supporters.

The sad thing of the 2004 general election was that the most liberal viable candidate won - and many liberals did not know that. Clark himself did a very good job as a surrogate - good enough that I would bet that Kerry would have found a place for him had he won.

[brooklynite]

2. Why is a Wes Clark endorsement a violation of Democratic Party neutrality?

Wes holds no office in the Democratic Party. He's entitled to endorse anyone he wants and you're entitled to consider and/or reject his endorsement.

[KoKo]

5. Somebody PAID for WES's ROBO CALL to ME...WHO WAS IT!

Don't tell me he doesn't expect payment for his endorsements... You must think I'm an Idiot!

[brooklynite]

7. Just a shot in the dark but...

Cal Cunningham?

(PS - no need to SHOUT)

[KoKo]

9. Yeah...so who is supporting Cal Cunningham that he has money as a "losing Candidate?"

:shrug: WHO?

[Dr.Phool]

43. Check with your Democratic State Chairperson.

Normally, no one will make the robo-call without the State Chair calling and asking them to.

I went through the whole process to get Max Cleland and John Edwards to do calls for us in '86.

[karynnj]

30. Well I guess I am an idiot- I don't think a serious political person accepts money for endsorsements

The payment would have to be in FEC records and it would become public - and would destroy the reputation of the person accepting money.

[elleng]

33. Wes Clark does NOT expect 'payment' for his endorsements,

and you're foolish if you think he does; not an idiot, but ignorant of Wes as a person. His support is based on substantive matters related to each candidate.

[elleng]

36. Washington Democrats

will be watching Tuesday's results carefully. The campaign committee recruited Cunningham .

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/06/20/north-carolina-senate-runoff-could-test-washingtons-reach/

[Ken Burch]

3. Why would Clark be that deterimined to take out Elaine Marshall?

What did she ever do to HIM?

:wtf:

[KoKo]

6. Who runs Wes that paid him to do the "Robo Call" is what I want to know....

:shrug:

[elleng]

34. SHE may not be the issue.

'As General Clark points out, Cal would be the very first veteran of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan elected to the U.S. Senate. Cal was awarded both the Bronze Star and the General Douglas MacArthur Leadership Award for his service in Iraq prosecuting rogue contractors who were harming our mission in Iraq.'

http://www.bluenc.com/general-wesley-clark-endorses-cal-cunningham

[DFLforever]

10. Does Clarke have a history with Cunningham?

Did he support Gen Clarke when he was running for Pres in 2004? I suppose you could argue Clarke was the DLC candidate in 2004, put in to siphon off support from Dean.

Maybe Cunningham is paying for the robo calls. If he is the 'official' candidate, he could be getting money from a lot of sources.

[KoKo]

11. Elaine Marshall WON the Primary...and Cunningham didn't drop out...so DNC/DLC should be supporting

Marshall...but instead the loser in the Primary has Wes Clark (GENERAL WES CLARK) supporting him?

WHY?

DNC came our for Joe Lieberman when he lost Dem Primary in CT...and ran as an INDEPENDENT! NOW...former Secretary of State for NC for 8 Years, Elaine Marshall WINS the DEM PRIMARY IN NC...but Cunningham refused to drop out and now WES CLARK is ENDORSING HIM?

Think! "Military Industrial Complex"...i.e. former General Wes Clark is supporting unknown doofus Cal Cunningham (watched both NC Debates and Cal LOST the Primary because he's an "Empty Suit) and yet a former GENERAL supports HIM?

Elaine Marshall is a true Progressive and want America OUT OF THESE TWO WARS...but Wes Clark wants to endorse Cunningham...WHY...Because Cunningham will vote to KEEP us in IRAQ/AFGHANISTAN!

[demhistorian]

12. The DNC supported Joe Lieberman in the 2006 CT General election? Really?

[Ken Burch]

15. I think the poster meant the DLC did

(if they didn't officially, a lot of DLC heavy hitters, like William Galston and Ben Wattenberg, did so. I think Al From did so as an individual as well.) And the DLC wing of the Democratic U.S. Senate caucus(Blanche Lincoln, Prior, I think Mary Landrieu as well)betrayed the party they are a member of and backed Lieberman in the fall, despite the fact that Ned Lamont had done nothing to earn their hostility.

[demhistorian]

17. the poster is speaking of the two entities interchangeably - "DNC/DLC"

The poster either doesn't know the difference or believes there is no difference.

[Ken Burch]

19. In the Clinton/Gore era, it was hard to tell the difference

The DNC didn't do a damn thing for progressive Democratic candidates then...it only backed right-wingers liked Landrieu and Prior.

And the fact that the DNC, even today, backs "moderate" Dem incumbents against progressive primary challengers(instead of doing what they're supposed to do and stay neutral in primaries)contributes to the confusion.

[demhistorian]

21. 2006 was hardly the Clinton/Gore era

[Ken Burch]

22. I know that. But that's probably where the confusion of the two groups started

in the minds of a lot of progressives and Democrats. Neither the DLC NOR the DNC cared about the actual principles of the Democratic party in that era, and it's not clear that even the DNC has changed in this regard.

[demhistorian]

27. so the OP hasn't had his/her confusion cleared up in over 8 years?

"principles" of the Democratic party? WHAT principles are you referring to? Who wrote them down? Is there a book you can refer me to that contain the official Democratic party principles?

[Ken Burch]

13. In the South, runoff primaries have almost always had a negative role

In earlier times, they were used by whites to keep African-Americans with plurality leads from ever winning a primary(Andrew Young's runoff victory in Atlanta was a one-time fluke and has not been repeated elsewhere in the South, to my knowledge).

Now, they're used by right-wing Dems to keep progressives with plurality leads from winning Southern primaries.

In both cases, runoff primaries are about stopping change.

[KoKo]

16. There wasn't a "runoff primary." It was the Dem Party Official Primary & Marshall Won It..

but Cunningham didn't drop out and instead is sending out big glossy mailings trashing Marshall. Then I get a "RoboCall" from General Wes Clark urging me to vote for the Candidate who DID NOT WIN the OFFICIAL DEM PRIMARY?

Give me a break. Who is funding Cunningham? Marshall won the Primary officially...why is the DNC not giving HER BIG BUCKS to send out GLOSSIES twice a week...and paying folks to ROBO CALL in support of her?

Dem WINS PRIMARY and has to beg for money? How can that be. She couldn't have won without her little donors but the Candidate WHO LOST has MEGA BUCKS and BIG DEMS doing ROBO CALLS?

:shrug: WTF is wrong with this picture. The voters are not important in elections? They can be "end run" by folks who lost but are still trying to pretend they won? The "Losers" can get Dem Party Funds to go against the VOTERS who VOTED FOR THE WINNER...and NOT...the LOSER? But, the LOSER wins it all?

:eyes:

[DFLforever]

14. Don't you have to gain 50% to be a winner of a NC

primary? Aren't they in a runoff because there was no actual winner?

[KoKo]

18. Yes...and that is why there is a runoff June 20th..but it wasn't close ..look at results

Politics Daily — Elaine Marshall, who bested Cal Cunningham in last week's Democratic Senate primary by 36 percent to 27 percent, now finds herself in a tie with him as they head towards a June 22 runoff.

[WI_DEM]

41. 36-27 that's well below 50% for both candidates, so what's the big deal? there is a run-off.

[Freddie Stubbs]

25. Anything happening on June 22?

[karynnj]

32. The DNC supported Lamont in the general election

The primary did NOT have a winner. Just as Lincoln was not the winner before the runoff was complete in AR.

[WI_DEM]

40. NC law allows run-offs if nobody gets 50% and Marshall got 37% so there is a run-off--get a grip

people.

[karynnj]

31. I think you are on target

I think that Clark was intended to siphon support from Dean and he succeeded in NH. Dean peaked in NH in fall 2003. Given the timing of when he entered, the target had to be Dean. He immediately raised a HUGE amount of money for a basically unknown candidate just entering the race. (It was also clear from that early press that the view was that Clark's military background left Kerry, who was far behind Dean, with no reason to be selected.)

Where Clark may have had an impact is NH. Dean's numbers in NH fell after Clark entered the race with a splash of incredible media coverage. As Clark stumbled as a candidate - which he had never been before, he lost support in NH and most of it migrated to undecided with some going to John Kerry. Although no one published any transition matrices that would show all the movements, it does not look like many who left Dean for Clark returned to Dean. At the point of the Iowa caucus, it left Dean still about 10 points ahead of Kerry. Kerry, almost immediately picked up a large part of Clark's support and undecided. It might have been that without Clark, these same people would have moved directly from Dean to Kerry.

[KoKo]

20. Any Progressive NC'linians who want us out of Iraq/Afghanistan should vote for Elaine Marshall and

not DLC Waffler, Cal Cunningham who is supported by US Chamber of Commerce and "others" like the "MIC" who is funding Cunningham by having former "General" Wes Clark Roboing for him!..Aside from the HUGE GLOSSIES Cunningham is sending saying Elaine is going to CUT SS!

It's Cunningham who will vote to get rid of SS and to keep us in America's ENDLESS WARS. He's got the funding and endorsements to prove it!

[depakid]

23. Clark's backing of Blanche Lincoln destroyed any credibility that he once had

Wes should stick to corporate boards from here on out.

[jonnyblitz]

26. I never liked him because of his support for the "school of the

americas". he denies they do torture. he's a fucking tool.

[Hippo_Tron]

24. If there is a runoff why should he have dropped out of the race?

[karynnj]

28. She is not the Democratic nominee yet - would you have said the same of someone supporting Halther

Linclon "won" the primary 45 % to 43%?

I don't know enough to justify having an opinion on the NC race, but I don't see a problem with various Democrats endorsing either in this race. It is well within their rights. From the little I have seen, Marshall seems the choice of the netroots. One impact for Clark, is that the fact that he is supporting Cunningham here, Lincoln in AR, Hillary Clinton in 2008, and the mainstream democratic position on Iraq (instead of Kerry/Feingold) in 2006, might lead netroot Clark supporters to develop a more complex picture of who he is. It does appear that he is solidly aligned with the Clinton wing of the party on many issues. He is a good person - I wish he had run against Lincoln.

[elleng]

35. For everyone's information:

The results of Elaine Marshall vs. Cal Cunningham will reach all the way to the Democratic establishment in Washington, which has taken a side.

In the May 4 primary, Secretary of State Marshall finished first with 36 percent of the vote, shy of the 40 percent needed to prevent a runoff, which was called for by Cunningham, the 36-year-old former state senator who is backed by the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee. He finished second at 27 percent.

After a mixed record in the primaries – a success with Sen. Blanche Lincoln over Lt. Gov. Bill Halter in Arkansas but a defeat of chosen candidate Sen. Arlen Specter by Rep. Joe Sestak in Pennsylvania – Washington Democrats will be watching Tuesday's results carefully. The campaign committee recruited Cunningham -- his military background and youthful profile no doubt seen as a plus – and bypassed Marshall, who finished a disappointing third in the 2002 Senate primary. Marshall campaign spokesman Sam Swartz said, "I think they've misread what the people of North Carolina want." >>>


http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/06/20/north-carolina-senate-runoff-could-test-washingtons-reach/

[KoKo]

37. Good read, Elleng...thanks! n/t

[elleng]

38. You're welcome, KoKo.

[WI_DEM]

39. Isn't this a run-off?

[elleng]

42. NC Senate Democratic Debate, C-Span now.