At least 10 Presidents better on environment than Obama

[Hawkowl]

I understand Pope wanting to give Obama a boost, just as the Nobel committee did, but the best since TR? Again, I'd have to say Nixon kicks Obama's ass. Granted IF Obama chooses, he could leverage this BP cataclysm into TR status. Maybe that is what Pope is hoping for. I however, am not holding my breath.

Please somebody name some accomplishments that indicate Obama deserves to be even mentioned in the same breath with the ten presidents at this link:

http://www.thedailygreen.com/environmental-news/latest/greenest-presidents-460808

[depakid]

1. Just wait until legalized whaling is announced later on this month...

We'll hear what a good thing that's going to be- and how this is "wiser" and "more pragmatic" than keeping his campaign promise.

Bank on it.

[HooptieWagon]

47. LOL! but so true, unfortunately.

[XemaSab]

2. Nixon was our greatest environmental president

Virtually every environmental law we have was enacted under his tenure.

[Art_from_Ark]

4. That's a bit of a stretch

Environmental law goes all the way back to at least the 1870s, when Yellowstone was designated as America's first national park.

And I would say that Lyndon Johnson was more of an environmental President than Nixon was.

http://www.nps.gov/lyjo/planyourvisit/upload/EnvironmentCS2.pdf

[XemaSab]

7. NEPA, the endangered species act, the clean water act, the clean air act, and the EPA

are the foundation of the modern environmental protection movement.

[Art_from_Ark]

8. The foundation was laid in the 1960s

Did you even look at the link I provided?

Nixon essentially built on what Johnson had started in motion, which itself was stimulated in large part by the publication of Rachel Carson's Silent Spring in 1962.

[XemaSab]

10. Johnson deserves a lot of credit, I concur

but Nixon brought it all home.

[Art_from_Ark]

12. Please take a look at that link

Johnson really deserves much more credit.

Also, Nixon was the best Republican environmental president since TR, I'll give him that, but to say that nearly all of our environmental laws are due to him is still a bit of a stretch.

[XemaSab]

15. I did take a look at it

Most of our laws were signed in in 72 and 73. Under Nixon.

(I write about this for a living. Trust me, I know.)

[Art_from_Ark]

16. I think maybe you should brush up on your research

Here is a list of major environmental laws that have been passed, mainly since 1970 (when the EPA was established). While many were signed by Nixon (after being passed by a Democratic Congress), many more have been implemented since then.

http://www.epa.gov/lawsregs/laws/index.html

I will give Nixon a lot of credit for taking an active role in getting the EPA started, in the aftermath of the 1969 Santa Barbara oil disaster

[Art_from_Ark]

17. I would also like to ask you to consider this

If the Santa Barbara oil disaster (which was in Nixon's home state) had not occurred, would he have been an "environmental president"? Santa Barbara started just 9 days after Nixon had taken office. Given the growing environmental movement at the time, there is really no way Nixon could have swept this under the rug. He had to embrace the environmental movement, whether he wanted to or not.

[XemaSab]

33. Presidents (for the most part) cannot control what happens under their tenure

Nixon was president during the oil spill, and his response to it put him on the right side of history. He could have blown off the environmentalists, stonewalled, made some noise about how environmental legislation would kill American industry, and focused on other things as president, but he didn't. He was the one who enacted all that legislation.

A president who had a dreadful response to a crisis was W after the terrorist attacks. It could have been an opportunity to aggressively combat international terrorism while building bridges overseas, but instead we're stuck over there. And he was going against the mood of the American people while doing it. Bush's response put him on the wrong side of history.

Right now Obama can respond to this oil spill crisis like a Nixon, or he can respond to it like a W or a Herbert Hoover.

[Art_from_Ark]

40. Nixon didn't exactly enact the legislation-- he signed it

The legislation was passed in both Democratic-controlled houses of Congress before it reached his desk. There was a groundswell of public support for environmental legislation in the wake of Santa Barbara, and later the same year, the Cuyahoga River disaster. There's no way Nixon could have ignored that.

[XemaSab]

41. I think that today's politicians

had they known the huge effort on the part of business that environmental legislation was going to cause, would never have enacted the laws that were enacted in the early 70's.

[Art_from_Ark]

44. You might want to take a look at this:

"Despite these accomplishments, the White House gained nothing. Criticized by environmentalists, who wanted even more from him, and upstaged by Democrats in Congress, a frustrated Nixon determined to change strategy. Capitalizing on cleavages over the Vietnam War and racial issues, Nixon embraced a conservative domestic agenda, including support for industrial polluters and opposition to further reform. With his reelection assured, Nixon later sacked or reassigned most of his environmental advisors. Only Watergate blunted Nixon's conservative revolution."

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3854/is_200104/ai_n8929483/

[XemaSab]

46. So?

His administration still gave us virtually all our environmental laws.

Which presidents do you think were better, and what specifically did they do for the environment?

[tabasco]

29. LOL.

Just because you write about it doesn't mean you understand it.

[XemaSab]

34. And how are you an expert?

:shrug:

[Bryn]

32. Thanks for the link

I remember how much Lady Bird Johnson loved wild flowers. I am going to read this link you gave.

[Sebastian Doyle]

35. Well... that all depends.

I don't think either of them were all that kind to the environment in Vietnam. :hide:

[Submariner]

18. It took a river to catch fire to kick off the first Earth Day

Nixon had no choice. When the nation saw a waterway in flames on TeeVee, it was clear something had to be done. Tricky Dick was by no means worrying about biodiversity or some other noble cause, other than re-election.

The Cuyahoga River fire in 1969 Ohio was responsible for initiating the Clean Water Act and EPA. Nixon...not so much.

[Art_from_Ark]

19. Don't forget the Santa Barbara disaster

I still remember those images on TV of the oil-soaked beaches from January 1969, just a few days after Nixon was inaugurated.

[Bryn]

3. Republicans of 20-30 years ago ...

I think that democrats except for a few like Grayson, Kruinich, Sanders, etc. are farther to the right than republicans were 20-30 years ago. Nixon’s HCR was way more “liberal” than Obama’s plan.

An Eisenhower Republican updated on the social side *is* a flaming liberal by today’s standards.

[Hawkowl]

5. It is maddening, isn't it?

I tell people all the time that Obama is quite a bit right of Nixon and Eisenhower, and they look at me like I've grown another head. At least at first. It is important to have a historical perspective and be able to educate people on a one to one basis on how far we have drifted into the right wing spectrum.

Too many people think it has always been this way. I tell people under 30 that Reagan was a TERRIBLE president and they ask why? So, I tell them why; the way it used to be and how we need to get back to way things used to be. I guess that makes me a conservative? :shrug:

[pundaint]

42. Maybe a neo-reactionary?

[Hippo_Tron]

43. Nixon launched a secret war in Cambodia and used the FBI to terrorize peace activists

Obama isn't farther to the right than Nixon. The country simply had not yet bought into Reagan's greed is good philosophy at the time Nixon was President. I'll give you Eisenhower to some extent, although Ike was never really a huge conservative or Republican to begin with. He kind of picked his party arbitrarily.

[Raine]

38. True and given that ... I shudder to think

where our country will be in another 20-30 years. :-(

edit: changed one word

[treestar]

48. And?

It is 40 years later. That was before Reagan. Trying to pretend the right wing did not gain power in that 40-50 years is fruitless.

[NYC_SKP]

6. I'd say context has a lot to do with it, but this is a good read.

Nixon, for example, seems to get credit but was he an environmentalist, or just living in an era during which more people in congress were willing to accommodate the interests of the environmental movement?

Jimmy Carter was very good, and I wish he'd gotten a second term and had more support.

And FDR had a lot on his hands, but he also had three terms.

History will tell whether or not President Obama will make the list.

[Ex Lurker]

45. if not for Carter, we wouldn't be fighting over ANWR

it would have been pillaged decades ago.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pnorman]

11. NONE of those mentioned, had to start from the point where Obama did.

It wasn' t just eight long years of Bush, but it was 3 decades of what Reagan had brought our country to. Try to bear that in mind, while slamming him!

"There's Not A Dime's Worth Of Difference Between Obama And......"

[depakid]

13. Cleaning up the MMS pronto- given all that was known, was a no brainer

and- as we now see, ought to have been among the first orders of business.

[Cha]

51. Excellent Point, pnorman and one that won't

be recognized by the non reality crowd.

[villager]

14. this has made at least one apologist/unreccer very unhappy...

n/t

[Cha]

52. Yeah, probably into reality and didn't want

the garbage spread.

[ProSense]

20. Clinton? "also blamed for being unable to secure support for the Kyoto..."

During the Clinton years resource extraction on public lands proceeded at record pace. The administration is also blamed for being unable to secure support for the Kyoto Protocol or other major efforts to prevent global warming.

Seriously, look at JFK:

Like many Americans at the time, John F. Kennedy (1961-1963) was reportedly influenced by Rachel Carson's groundbreaking book Silent Spring. As a result the president established a committee to investigate the impacts of pesticides on health and the environment. The subsequent report was critical of the industry and lax government policies.

This investigation would help lay the groundwork for the establishment of the EPA and modern environmental protection laws.

This list is old, and will no doubt be updated.

President Obama, with only 16 months in office has already done far more.

[Go2Peace]

21. Nobody believes it when things are spun unrealistically

If someone is seen to be constantly pushing a rigid and unrealistic spin, wouldn't it make people less likely to actually read and digest their posts? Seriously, people will not bother to read the posts in such a situation after a while unless they already agree. Not to mention it gets people defensive because they feel that someone is trying to manipulate them.

I know for myself I would prefer to have *conversations*, because sometimes I might actually learn something I did not know. Just this morning someone posted about Obama's environmental record. And they did it in a more neutral and informative way, and they changed my view.

The nature of my exchanges with folks who are spinning is quite different. I find myself not trusting *anything* they post or say, because I cannot trust them to be honest with me. My exchanges with them are not satisfying because I feel that they will not be honest if it means backing off on a point. Like others I am human and will have a tendancy to dig in and fight for my voice. Then nether of us get anywhere?

[ProSense]

22. Thanks for sharing that.

It's good to live in a free country, good to be in control of one's own decision making and good to be able to accept or reject information based on merit. One may even choose to ignore the information.

[Go2Peace]

36. True. You can choose to be part of the problem or part of the solution

Spin, or the other world for it. PROPAGANDA, is part of the PROBLEM and an enemy of Democracy and humankind. We recognize that when it come to Republicans. It's unfortunate that in this way we become like them.

[Jennicut]

23. I think it all depends...those Presidents had 4 to 8 years to do something.

If Obama uses this oil spill to push for investments in renewable energy then his legacy will be very good.
If not, then he will not be on that list.

Nixon deserves a lot of praise, as does Carter.

[ProSense]

24. No doubt he has an opportunity to expand on what he has already done

American Recovery and Reinvestment Act Provides Measures to Sustain and Expand Wind Energy Industry Growth


A Breath of Fresh Air

Green stimulus and recovery

As the economic hurricane gathered force last winter CAP recommended that any recovery plan include $100 billion for clean-energy programs. The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, or ARRA, which became law on February 17, 2009, includes $70 billion for clean-energy investments in the Weatherization Assistance Program, energy- efficiency in government buildings, states’ efficiency and renewable energy programs, public transit, high-speed rail, advanced battery research, and other programs. ARRA also includes $20 billion in clean-energy tax incentives for residential efficiency measures, wind and solar power, and super-efficient cars. The New York Times called this program “the largest energy bill ever passed.”

The Department of Energy and other agencies adopted safeguards to ensure that these funds are well spent given the unprecedented size and scope of the programs. This took longer than anticipated, so a large portion of clean-energy funds have been allocated but not spent. DOE received $33 billion, nearly half of the clean-energy funds, and it has awarded $23 billion, or about two-thirds of these funds, to eligible states and other grantees. As of December 31, less than $2 billion—or 6 percent—was spent.

The rate of spending, job creation, and energy savings will accelerate in 2010 after the awarded funds are spent. On January 8, for instance, President Obama announced the award of “$2.3 billion in Advanced Energy Manufacturing Tax Credits,” which should leverage another $5 billion in private investments. These funds will go to “One hundred eighty three projects in 43 states will create tens of thousands of high-quality, clean-energy jobs and the domestic manufacturing of advanced clean-energy technologies including solar, wind, and efficiency and energy management technologies.”

Vice President Joe Biden released an analysis in December showing that just two ARRA programs—investments in renewable and smart manufacturing, and smart grid technologies—would create more than 800,000 jobs. And based on past experience the $5 billion ARRA investment in low-income home weatherization projects could create another 160,000 jobs.

[Jennicut]

25. I agree. This is the main part of environmental policy that needs to be addressed.

Clinton gave us more protected wetlands and forests, but he didn't do a huge overhaul.

[treestar]

49. Furthermore, they had the times they were in.

It is silly to pretend Obama did not inherit the situation from the most right wing administration, spurred on by 911, ever.

It's not as if the right had not already made great gains under Reagan and Bush I. Then they used 911 for all they were worth to claim their agenda was necessary for "National security."

[Donnachaidh]

26. K&R. n/t

[ecstatic]

27. Really ugly post. Congrats nt

[Dawgs]

28. Uh, you can't compare 4/8 years of another president with 1 1/2 of Obama's.

Unless you're a Republican or someone with an agenda.

[Hawkowl]

39. Or Pope?

That was my point. It is ridiculous to claim Obama is the best environmental president since TR. Ludicrous.

[Cha]

53. Pope was looking at the President's record so far..

This president has to do a lot more to get it on a better track than the other presidents.. as was pointed out in the thread.

janx (1000+ posts) Sun Jun-13-10 11:05 AM
Response to Original message

30. Glad to oblige...but these are just during the first 100 days:

* Worked with Congress to pass the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, a $787 billion economic stimulus package that includes nearly $100 billion in green spending to help get the economy back on track and to create millions of clean-energy jobs.

* Outlined a "clean energy" vision for America.

* Appointed an outstanding “green team” of top advisors, federal officials and cabinet secretaries.

* Sent Congress a proposed budget that makes clean energy and the environment top priorities and includes funding for energy and environmental programs throughout the federal government.

* Declared carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases a threat to public health and welfare, setting the stage for regulating greenhouse gas emissions that contribute to global warming if Congress fails to pass legislation to address the issue.

* Protected more than 2 million acres of wilderness land and several rivers with the Omnibus Public Land Management Act of 2009..

* Re-established the United States as a leader in international climate negotiations.

* Restored critical protections under the Endangered Species Act, which had been removed by a last-minute rule change in the final days of the Bush administration.

* Ordered the Environmental Protection Agency to reconsider its decision to deny California a waiver under the Clean Air Act, which would have enabled California and 17 other states to impose stricter-than-federal limits on greenhouse gas emissions from motor vehicles.

* Reversed the Bush rule that opened the door to mountaintop removal coal mining and canceled several individual mountaintop mining permits.

* Put offshore drilling and oil shale exploration on hold and restored protections for public lands.

* Announced a new initiative to lease U.S. coastal waters for the purpose of generating electricity from wind and ocean currents.

* Repeatedly reaffirmed science and the rule of law as the standards by which federal environmental decisions shall be made.

"It is difficult to overstate the tremendous progress President Obama has made in just 100 days,” said Sierra Club Executive Director Carl Pope in a statement. “He has moved swifter and smarter than any president in recent memory. While naysayers warned of doing too much too quickly, President Obama maintained his resolve and his boldness is backed by overwhelming majorities of the American public.

"President Obama has done more to lay the foundation for the clean energy future in three months than has been done in the previous three decades,” Pope continued. “His economic recovery plan, the budget, and a sweeping set of executive branch actions amount to a huge down payment on a cleaner, more prosperous future.”

http://environment.about.com/od/environmentallawpolicy/...

__________________________

I posted this yesterday in another thread.

You might also want to check out "Off to a Green Start: A Roundup of Obama's Environmental Progress"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frances-beinecke/off-to-a...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=336801&mesg_id=336992

Carl Pope doesn't give "boosts" when they're not warranted.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=336801&mesg_id=337024

[Hawkowl]

55. "Previous three decades"

I completely agree with the more in three decades bit. I think he just got carried away with the greatest since TR bit. Thirty years takes us back to beginning Reagan, so yes, Obama is easily, hands down the best environmental president since Carter.

[janx]

30. Glad to oblige...but these are just during the first 100 days:

* Worked with Congress to pass the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, a $787 billion economic stimulus package that includes nearly $100 billion in green spending to help get the economy back on track and to create millions of clean-energy jobs.

* Outlined a "clean energy" vision for America.

* Appointed an outstanding “green team” of top advisors, federal officials and cabinet secretaries.

* Sent Congress a proposed budget that makes clean energy and the environment top priorities and includes funding for energy and environmental programs throughout the federal government.

* Declared carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases a threat to public health and welfare, setting the stage for regulating greenhouse gas emissions that contribute to global warming if Congress fails to pass legislation to address the issue.

* Protected more than 2 million acres of wilderness land and several rivers with the Omnibus Public Land Management Act of 2009..

* Re-established the United States as a leader in international climate negotiations.

* Restored critical protections under the Endangered Species Act, which had been removed by a last-minute rule change in the final days of the Bush administration.

* Ordered the Environmental Protection Agency to reconsider its decision to deny California a waiver under the Clean Air Act, which would have enabled California and 17 other states to impose stricter-than-federal limits on greenhouse gas emissions from motor vehicles.

* Reversed the Bush rule that opened the door to mountaintop removal coal mining and canceled several individual mountaintop mining permits.

* Put offshore drilling and oil shale exploration on hold and restored protections for public lands.

* Announced a new initiative to lease U.S. coastal waters for the purpose of generating electricity from wind and ocean currents.

* Repeatedly reaffirmed science and the rule of law as the standards by which federal environmental decisions shall be made.

"It is difficult to overstate the tremendous progress President Obama has made in just 100 days,” said Sierra Club Executive Director Carl Pope in a statement. “He has moved swifter and smarter than any president in recent memory. While naysayers warned of doing too much too quickly, President Obama maintained his resolve and his boldness is backed by overwhelming majorities of the American public.

"President Obama has done more to lay the foundation for the clean energy future in three months than has been done in the previous three decades,” Pope continued. “His economic recovery plan, the budget, and a sweeping set of executive branch actions amount to a huge down payment on a cleaner, more prosperous future.”

http://environment.about.com/od/environmentallawpolicy/a/obama-first-100-days.htm

__________________________

I posted this yesterday in another thread.

You might also want to check out "Off to a Green Start: A Roundup of Obama's Environmental Progress"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frances-beinecke/off-to-a-green-start-a-ro_b_171108.html

[Cha]

50. Rec this Post....Thanks janx, for this major reality check in a thread

that just arbitrarily says Carl Pope is wrong and the anonymous op is right. yeah.

[AtomicKitten]

54. +1

:yourock:

[janx]

31. ..."wanting to give Obama a boost..." ?

I don't think you know who Carl Pope is.

The Sierra Club and other major hitter environmental groups, those that have been around for decades, sent this letter about the oil catastrophe very early on:

http://www.nwf.org/News-and-Magazines/Media-Center/News-by-Topic/Wildlife/2010/~/media/PDFs/Global%20Warming/Letter-to-president-May-19-2010.ashx


I posted it when it happened, but the post was largely ignored.

[Raine1967]

37. Well if that is the case, at least 33 were a lot worse.... eom