A critical difference between Katrina and BP

[Empowerer]

Those who insist that this is "Obama's Katrina" are comparing apples to oranges. In fact. the two situations are completely different. The only thing they have in common is that they are both disasters.

Hurricane Katrina came with much warning and was not the first incident of its type. It was one distinct, finite incident that ended within hours, resulting in acute life-threatening emergencies to countless people who needed help immediately or else they would (and many sadly, did) die of starvation, dehydration, drowning, strokes, etc. and enormous long-term damage that needed thoughtful, sustainable solutions. While all manner of players could provide rescue assistance, only the federal government could provide it with the speed and scale necessary to save lives and staunch the devastation.
On the other hand, the BP disaster, while it is one distinct incident and will eventually be finite, is open-ended with no predictable or certain end. And, unlike Katrina, where only the federal government was equipped to provide the massive assistance needed, in this instance, only BP and their industry peers are capable of making it stop. And while it is causing tremendous long-term harm, this disaster is not prompting acute human life-threatening emergencies in the way that Katrina did.

Case and point: No one - NO ONE criticized George W. Bush - nor should they have - for not doing enough to deal with Katrina while the storm was still raging. The problem occurred after the storm had passed and the dire emergency situation was downplayed and, arguably, ignored. If Katrina had blown for 5 or 10 or 20 or 40 days, Bush could hardly have been faulted for not making it stop or not effectively dealing with the aftermath while the storm raged. If the BP oil spill was stopped within a day and Obama and the federal government had done little or nothing afterward to respnond to the fallout, he would deserve criticism and even scorn. But President Obama is trying to figure out how to stop the storm, how to clean up the mess and how get everyone who is being affected back on their feet and make them whole again - all while the storm is still going on.

And all the while he has to put up with a bunch of naysayers - most of whom have not a lick of responsibility for anything other than running their mouths and generating ratings or votes - telling him he's not doing enough, he's not doing it right, he doesn't sound mad enough, he doesn't look sufficiently upset, and on and on.

THEY are the ones who should be ashamed of their performance, not our President.

[Political Tiger]

1. Thank you for the much needed dose of common sense! n/t

[jenmito]

2. And while people were dying and screaming out for help, Bush was so unaware of it that someone

in his admin. made a DVD of the situation before he reacted to it. OBAMA was on the case from the first day.

[SharonAnn]

3. And this. Feds had FEMA, a department that is supposed to deal with hurricanes, etc.

We don't have a department that is supposed to deal with corporations fouling the world's oceans.

Maybe we should.

[Empowerer]

4. EXCELLENT point! nt

[Cha]

6. Perhaps deal with it before it could possilbly

happen again.

BP doesn't want to pick a fight with the White House about whose responsibility this is.

[MadMaddie]

7. Actually FEMA was that organization

It was a cabinet position under Bill Clinton, they reported directly to the president. They had professionals who are trained to react to disaster like this.

Then............

Junior came in and demoted FEMA from a cabinet postion......

Then.........9/11 happened

Junior and Skeletor cobbled DHS together and shoved FEMA into DHS. Skeletor also changed the mission of FEMA from Disaster Management to focusing on Terrorism.

FEMA needs to be pulled out of DHS and moved back to a cabinet position.

[BeFree]

5. Obama is acting

But it was a bit delayed. The problem is the players. BP being the numero uno was a problem from the start. Sure, BP is, by law, the 'responsible' party.

This crisis is like none other, right? It is special and it directly effects millions of people and will effect millions more as time goes on. There was no plan to deal with it as there usually is with hurricanes. BP's plan sucks black tide so no one wants them there except to pay the bills.

So we are left to depend on a federal action. And most people in the region do not think the federal action is up to what they feel is required.

And that is why you posted this OP. Which wasn't bad, until the end, when you started blaming the victims who want BP out and Obama to reassure them that they will not be screwed by BP again. Put yourself in their place and see how you feel. See if you don't start "..telling him he's not doing enough, he's not doing it right, he doesn't sound mad enough, he doesn't look sufficiently upset, and on and on."

Try walking in their shoes, and on their shores, and in their now useless boats, and see if you think you should STFU.

[Mimosa]

8. Exactly right.

Nobody wants to bash President Obama.

But the ruination of the coastal environment and the loss of hundreds of thousands of interrelated jobs is more important than politics.

[secondwind]

9. KATRINA COULD BE SEEN FROM OUTER SPACE, FOR PETE'S SAKE! PLENTY OF WARNINGS!!

[MindandSoul]

10. Excellent and absolutely true! Thank you!

[Usrename]

11. The only difference is that Bush fell behind the public on the outrage.

Obama seems to be keeping up pretty well with the public outrage. As the public becomes more and more aware of how horrible the situation really is, in spite of Obama's (and BP's) constant attempts to downplay the severity of the damage, he changes his tempo slightly to match the general pubic's level of concern.

I think another poster said it pretty well. The actual victims of this Apocalypse are sick and tired of being dealt with in this manner. They understood very early on exactly how bad this situation is, and exactly how bad their lives were going to be affected, and they are sick and tired of all the phony media bullshit. And Obama hasn't done a thing to step up and tell the public exacty what is happening to the planet.

I still think he is playing for the other team. He's an enabler. He could lock these bastards up today, if he wanted to.

[girl gone mad]

12. Wasn't the administration warned that these rigs were unsafe?

Weren't they told that the MMS was corrupt and inept?

What did they do with this information, and why did Obama come out just weeks before this disaster and state that deep water drilling accidents were a thing of the past?

So many questions. Seems they triangulated to appease their corporate sponsors and right wing critics and they gambled with the Gulf's future. They lost and, more importantly, we lost. For all of our sake, we need real answers, not political spin.

[babylonsister]

13. Why are you constantly anti-Dem admin? So many questions. nt

[girl gone mad]

14. This isn't about me.

I know you guys always want to play these dumb "attack the messenger" games because you lack the intellectual capacity to talk about ideas and policy and the consequences of Obama's weak leadership, incessant compromises and selling us out cheap to corporate interests.

FWIW: Lifelong Democrat, decades of liberal activism to my credits, donated thousands of dollars to Democratic politicians, donated the maximum to the Obama campaign, supported him early in the primaries.

If you ever get bored with childish insinuation and decide you're ready for real, grown-up debate, let me know.

[babylonsister]

16. Nah, sweetie, your anti-Obama rhetoric gets old.

I could give a shit about your past; your present is what disturbs me. I spent years railing against Bush and you were no where in sight. All of a sudden, voila, here you are. Makes me wonder what your constant anti-Dem agenda is really about.

And your insults make you look more foolish than anything. I'm used to them, especially from the likes of you. Keep it up, have fun, this is a discussion board, keep discussing. I will, too.

[girl gone mad]

18. "I spent years railing against Bush and you were no where in sight"

I'm the same person I've always been. A liberal Democrat.

Maybe if you weren't so self-absorbed, you would have noticed me before you decided to make me an object of your worthless derision since I don't fall into lock-step behind the corporatist, neo-liberal crew that pulls this administration's strings.

I noticed you. Even took the time to wish you well during your highly publicized personal issues.

Right now, you're not discussing anything. You're trying to insinuate that I'm a Republican, which is not only a petty, pathetic little cheap shot from a person who can't debate facts, it's also against the rules here.

[Hippo_Tron]

15. Should he have suspended all offshore drilling?

And how well do you think that would've gone over with the American people since the price of gasoline would've likely skyrocketed.

[girl gone mad]

19. That's a fat straw man you're building.

How about something somewhere in between "suspending all offshore drilling" and declaring offshore drilling to be completely safe and expanding permits?

Is that too nuanced for you? I'm sure it's a lot more fun to argue about the world coming to a complete halt after Obama suspends all drilling than it is to talk about things like stepping up inspections, cleaning out the MMS, listening to the concerns of whistleblowers and smart environmentalists and not caving in to the demands of conservative half-wits and corrupt corporations.

[Hippo_Tron]

20. And how would that have prevented this particular disaster?

Cleaning up the MMS and stepping up inspections takes time to yield results. Unless you knew in advance when and where this was going to happen, the only way to have prevented this disaster was to suspend offshore drilling.

[Arkana]

17. Thousands of people died during Katrina.

An entire city drowned.

The President of the United States had ample warning that this (or something like this) might happen, and made no contingency plans to help New Orleans brace for impact--instead, he went to Arizona to eat cake and strum a guitar with John McCain.

None of these things are true of the current disaster--which, by the way, IS STILL GOING ON. Katrina at least blew out after a while.

[ProgressOnTheMove]

21. Amen to that post. +1

[jeanpalmer]

22. The similarities are

that the government planning and response in both cases was inadequate. I would say that there's more fault with regard to the oil spill because at its source it's a very localized problem susceptible to being contained with proper planning and government supervision. In both cases, the government could have and should have anticipated the problem and planned for it.

The lack of planning for the oil spill goes back many years, but Obama is involved there. It's clear his administration has done nothing to plan for something like this, or to reform the MMS. And don't you think that would true if this catastrophe had occurred on his watch in 2012, 2014 or 2016? He has shown no inclination to really regulate offshore oil drilling in any way different from the way his predecessors had. He was willing to take on even more risks by opening up drillling in more areas.

Any President who supported offshore drilling clearly foresaw the risk of this kind of disaster and freely took on that risk. No one put a gun to their heads and said they had to take on the risk. They freely assumed the risk. And Obama falls into this group also.

[BeFree]

23. That's the truth, jeanpalmer

The very idea that "they couldn't imagine this happening" is the lie of the century.

Anybody propping up that excuse is not to be trusted.

All the money in big oil, along all the known inherent problems and all we hear is "oops", and "we'll do better next time".

Screw those making excuses. They are the fantasy fuckheads who enable us being raped by all this big bidness claims of "Back off, we got this".

People, you are being lied to by big business and the government: Grow up.

[ProSense]

24. Why BP is the Anti-Katrina

Why BP is the Anti-Katrina

— By Kevin Drum

<...>

This conflates two very different things. Katrina was an example of the type of disaster that the federal government is specifically tasked with handling. And for most of the 90s, it was very good at handling them. But when George Bush became president and Joe Allbaugh became director of FEMA, everything changed. Allbaugh neither knew nor cared about disaster preparedness. For ideological reasons, FEMA was downsized and much of its work outsourced. When Allbaugh left after less than two years on the job, he was replaced by the hapless Michael Brown and the agency was downgraded and broken up yet again. By the time Katrina hit, the upper levels of FEMA were populated largely with political appointees with no disaster preparedness experience and the agency was simply not up to the job of dealing with a huge storm anymore.

The Deepwater Horizon explosion is almost the exact opposite. There is no federal expertise in capping oil blowouts. There is no federal agency tasked specifically with repairing broken well pipes. There is no expectation that the federal government should be able to respond instantly to a disaster like this. There never has been. For better or worse, it's simply not something that's ever been considered the responsibility of the federal government.1

In the case of Katrina, you have the kind of disaster that, contra Levin, can be addressed by the federal government. In the case of the BP spill, we're faced with a technological challenge that can't be. They could hardly be more different.

But there is one way in which they're similar. As Levin says, Katrina would have been an immense disaster no matter what. But it was far worse than it had to be because a conservative administration, one that fundamentally disdained the mechanics of government for ideological reasons, decided that FEMA wasn't very important. Likewise, the BP blowout was made more likely because that same administration decided that government regulation of private industry wasn't very important and turned the relevant agency into a joke. If you believe that government is the problem, not the solution, and if you actually run the country that way for eight years, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. But we shouldn't pretend it's inevitable.

more

The comparisons are moronic.

[Mimosa]

25. This is FAR WORSE than Katrina

Somebody wrote 'thousands died during katrina'. No, the death toll was less than 1,300. That's bad enough.

This disaster wasn't caused by nature. It may destroy the vital coastal marshlands, turn the Gulf of Mexico into a toxic dead zone and ruin the livelihoods of a million people.

This is worse than Katrina by at least 50 times.