Abused Afghan women opt for suicide

[IndianaGreen]

Clearly, it is not the Taliban that is solely to blame for the plight of women and girls, it is the tribal culture present in even the few areas controlled by NATO and the illegitimate Karzai regime. Consequently, it is disingenuous at best to use women's rights or keeping the Taliban out on account of women, as arguments in support of continuing the war in Afghanistan.

Abused Afghan women opt for suicide (VIDEO at link)

For many women trapped in abusive marriages in Afghanistan, death can seem like the only way out.

In the northwestern province of Herat, doctors this year have treated at least seventy women who attempted to take their own lives by setting themselves on fire.

More than 40 of them died, in what doctors describe as a lingering and painful process.

Al Jazeera's David Chater reports from Herat where he speaks to one woman who said she saw self-immolation as a means to escape a lifetime of abuse.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/2009/11/2009112992816757297.html

Domestic despair in Afghanistan

By David Chater in Asia on November 28th, 2009

The last time I stood by the bedside of a woman who’d tried to burn herself to death was in Kandahar one year ago. She was screaming in pain and later died. It was not an experience I wanted to repeat.

But this week I found myself in the Burns Unit at a hospital in Herat watching a mother spoon feed her child some rice through lips that were horribly blistered. Yet another case of self-immolation and another image that will haunt me long after I’ve left Afghanistan.

Letifa was only 11 years old when her father told her she had been betrothed to a man who was more than twenty years her senior. One day she simply poured petrol over her head and struck a match.

The doctors say she has a fifty-fifty chance of surviving. The burns went deep.
There’ve been 66 such cases admitted to this specialized clinic so far this year. Forty one of them have died.

There are many other cases where the victims live in outlying villages and never reach the hospital. The official statistics probably give no real indication of the scale of this problem in Afghanistan.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/asia/2009/11/28/domestic-despair-afghanistan

[niyad]

1. k and r

[ProSense]

2. "Clearly, it is not the Taliban that is solely to blame for the plight of women and girls"

When did it become cool to use the plight of women as a political football? Abuse happens around the world. It's a huge problem in this country.

Try not to use the plight of women in your attempts to apologize for the Taliban.

[IndianaGreen]

3. Our government will use the plight of women to SELL the war to the public

They've done it before!

[ProSense]

4. Maybe you should stop putting words in the President's mouth

You have no idea what Obama will say on Tuesday.

[IndianaGreen]

5. He will use his rhetorical skills to sell the war to a war weary public

and that will include an appeal to our emotions, lest we start using our heads.

[ShortnFiery]

10. It won't work for many of us. Robert Greenwald, et. al., are getting the message OUT.

Bombs will Kill Women in Afghanistan!

False perception that women have been "freed" by the US Occupation.

Complete MYTHOLOGY! It didn't happen.

http://rethinkafghanistan.com/blog/?p=604

[Cha]

17. President Obama will tell it like it is and that you're are already

using your clouded cyrstal ball once again to predict what he's going to say isn't relevant.

Edit~Sp

[IndianaGreen]

18. Here is the first lie: U.S. says Karzai was legitimately elected

U.S. says Karzai was legitimately elected

WASHINGTON, Nov. 5 (UPI) -- Washington recognizes Afghan President Hamid Karzai as the legitimately elected president of the country, a U.S. State Department spokesman said.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/Special/2009/11/05/US-says-Karzai-was-legitimately-elected/UPI-39501257460933/

If you think Ahmadinejad was legitimately elected, you probably believe that Karzai is legitimate as well.

[Cha]

19. Good..stick to facts and leave the bullshit outside.

[Cha]

16. When Indiana Green says it is even though it is

one of the most blatant hypocritical angles put forth.

[Oregone]

44. Liberation was just a big lie

From the horses mouth (no political footballs involved):
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/afghanmission/article/727873---liberation-was-just-a-big-lie

[ClarkUSA]

6. So do abused Indian women. Brides are also routinely killed after their dowries are paid...

so the groom and his family can collect another dowry, especially in poor rural areas.

Brides who do not give birth to sons stand the biggest risk of being murder.

[IndianaGreen]

7. Our government is not using that as a pretext to invade India

but it will use the plight of Afghan women and girls in a shameless effort to sell this idiotic war to the public.

[ClarkUSA]

8. "but it will use the plight of Afghan women & girls in a shameless effort to sell this idiotic war"

And you know this how? Do you have an advanced copy of Tuesday's night's speech?

:eyes:

[IndianaGreen]

11. And come Tuesday, you will be among those defending the use of such emotional appeal

[ClarkUSA]

13. So you are making stuff up again. I thought so.

:)

[ShortnFiery]

12. They always do .. ANYTHING to gift more of our Tax Dollars to the mighty MIC. eom

[ClarkUSA]

14. Shortie, I respect your honest passion but I disagree with what's you're saying completely.

Let's agree to disagree, okay? :hi:

[ShortnFiery]

21. Yes, ClarkUSA. You are a thoughtful opponent.

And to level with you, I hope that I'm wrong. That my background has shaded my outlook so much as to make me ultra-cynical and suspicious.

I've lost my trust in the system. Agreed. We agree to disagree. ;)

[ShortnFiery]

9. True, the Karzai government is almost as patriaracal.

http://rethinkafghanistan.com/blog/?p=604

Bombs will kill women in Afghanistan

Self immolation is a method of suicide by lighting oneself on fire. According to the Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan, self immolation has never been such an epidemic in Afghanistan as it is today. This is one fact that leads people to the sobering reality that our efforts in Afghanistan have done nothing for the vast majority of women there.

Despite this, politicians, military leaders, and sadly even some misguided American feminist groups continue to use the plight of women in Afghanistan to justify more spending, more troops and more war. People who care for the people of Afghanistan have got to see this for what it is. Women never benefit from bombs and bullets.

When the U.S and its allies chose to put the Karzai regime in place, they conveniently overlooked the fact that it is overrun with the same patriarchal attitudes toward women as the Taliban. During my recent trip to Afghanistan, I saw the crushing poverty that Afghans must endure. A few brave women from RAWA and the Afghan Women’s Mission pointed out in a recent article that the military establishment claims that it must win the military victory first and then the U.S. will take care of humanitarian needs. But they have it backward. Improve living conditions and security will improve. Focus on security at the expense of humanitarian goals, and coalition forces will accomplish neither. The first steptoward improving people’s lives is a negotiated settlement to end the war.

[Odin2005]

15. That is horrific. Barbaric.

:cry:

[Sarah Ibarruri]

20. Afghanistan's cultures and the Taliban are a nightmare for women and little girls

From banning education for little girls, to all kinds of torture of girls and women, it's a nightmare.

[ShortnFiery]

22. Although women can hold office, Karzai's thuggish government is still oppressive of most women.

http://rethinkafghanistan.com/blog/?p=604

[Sarah Ibarruri]

23. These things happen at all levels over there, but the culture is well ingrained in

the hatred of women, and it's not the only Islamic culture where hatred of women is the very base.

[ShortnFiery]

24. True, But the Imperial USA can NOT go in there with lack of cultural intelligence

for all the tribal natures of Afghanistan.

We can only help "pave the road to Hell" with our SMART BOMBS and GOOD INTENTIONS. :(

[Sarah Ibarruri]

25. I'm all for being sensitive

However, when women and little girls are being massacred,, mistreated, tortured, humiliated, etc., I think sensitivity needs to be thrown into the toilet and flushed several times.

Women are already second class citizens on this earth. If we're going to fight for true equality, we need to begin to stop the more heinous of behaviors towards women, sensitivity, culture, or not.

Yeah, I know. Some say that hey, the deaths of some women and little girls will happen along the road of cultural understanding. Cultural understanding my @$$, if kids and women are being hurt.

[ShortnFiery]

26. That's the point. We don't respect their culture and Karzai is no less patriarchal.

Newsflash: The women of Afghanistan HATE the invaders MUCH MORE than they are capable of hating their own people.

The WOMEN don't want us there and we are NOT making women's lives better in ANY AREAS outside of the very rigid population centers.

http://rethinkafghanistan.com/blog/?p=604

[Sarah Ibarruri]

28. Someone who has their eye poked out for wearing lipstick prefers the Taliban?

A mother who had her daughter stoned to death prefers the Taliban over invaders? A woman who had acid thrown in her face for studying prefers the Taliban over invaders?

Oh please. How clear it is that YOU are living well here in the Western world.

[ShortnFiery]

29. And you BELIEVE that you know their culture? That's insane to pull out single examples

as a RATIONALE to KILL MORE people who had NOTHING TO DO WITH 9/11. So you believe in vigilantism or propping up a corrupt and illegitimate leader because, you hope, maybe he won't become as crazy as SOME other ME Dictators? Like Saudi Arabia ... our buddies?!?

I was born in the ME of American Parents. Further, I'm not ARROGANT enough (see Ugly American) to believe that I know what's best for a woman within Afghanistan save for the fact sending Combat troops in to BOMB more of the nation will not come out well.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

52. Single examples? Women and girl children are massacred in Afghanistan

But since they're women, to you that's less significant than to be sensitive to the men.

[IndianaGreen]

50. How little you know what is going on in Afghanistan!

[Sarah Ibarruri]

53. I can read. I don't need you changing history for me to swallow a new (your) version

Thanks anyway tho.

Where women are being massacred, and little girls, by the males in that culture, I refuse to listen to anyone.

I particularly find amusing those who tell me that allowing the inhumane treatment of women and little girls as a "NECESSARY" evil in the process of "RESPECTING" the male culture in those countries.

Uh... NO.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

54. Until I see women and little girls NOT being treated like cockroaches....

Until then, I will ignore all semblance of the male culture in a country.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

55. Cultural intelligence? Where people are being murdered, SWAT teams do not worry about

cultural intelligence. I think that's a good tactic to use.

That cultural intelligence bs got old already. Where women are treated like shit, I wipe cultural intelligence from my mind. I don't think the males of a country should be respected as long as they're treating the women and girls like insects.

[quantass]

27. Maybe i missed the reasoning but Why burning themselves when they can take pills?!?

I definitely empathize for these women but i am puzzled as to why such a horrible way out when one could take sleeping pills which has a higher probability of achieving ones goal, and carries no pain. But as i write this i think of their culture, like virtually all religious mythical-based cultures, pain seems to be an important display. To me this way out is a clear sign of a cry for help. Poor people.

[Lyric]

31. Have you noted the lack of pharmacies, grocery stores and 7-11's

in rural Afghanistan?

:shrug:

[Hekate]

32. Pills from what doctor? which pharmacy? A woman here may have pills easily...

... while an Afghan woman is likely to have neither the pills nor the access to them. They use what is to hand.

Hekate

[alittlelark]

35. Good point - given the availability of opium (not pills)

I would seem a more logical choice.

[Quantess]

51. That was my first thought. Don't they have heroin on the streets?

I imagine a heroin OD would be a painless way to go.

[Aramchek]

30. yes indeed, Tuesday is going to be a good day for DU

[IndianaGreen]

34. It will be another bad day for America

Another bullshit call for more war!

[Aramchek]

36. was the surge in Iraq a bad thing, since it has let us begin to leave?

crawl down from your Ivory Tower and consider the real repercussions of immediate withdrawal.

you always avoid that.

[IndianaGreen]

37. The Sunni Awakening preceded Petraeus surge by months

and we paid lots of cash for that! We are going to spend $1.3 billion in buying those Taliban willing to be bought, with no guarantee that they will take the money without changing their opposition to us.

[Aramchek]

39. there was no guarantee in Iraq either, yet it worked

[IndianaGreen]

40. It wasn't because of the surge!

[Aramchek]

43. you avoided answering the question. why will cash not work in Afghanistan?

you complain that it's going to happen, yet you admit it was the reason for progress in Iraq.

face it, you just want what you want. you're not actually considering reality.

[IndianaGreen]

45. Here is the bottom line: you can have your bloody war, or you can have health care reform

Here are the people we are supporting in Afghanistan. Bin Laden is in Pakistan. Why are staying in Afghanistan?


Karzai with his vice-presidents, Qasim Fahim (L) and Karim Khalili (R), both criminal warlords.

You might say that if US leaves, the Taliban terrorists may take power. We request you, please don’t pity on us. If US would have been an enemy of Taliban and their ideas they would drive out all Talib ideologues from US and their educational centers and place them right with Noriega. People of Afghanistan, just like other nations, want freedom, democracy, justice and welfare. Majority of our people connect the Taliban with the Middle Age and are not ready, at any cost, to accept their rule. Taliban are an inerasable and shameful scar on humanity and have caused tremendous ignominy to our people. It was US’s wish to replace the rascals of Northern Alliance with them through Pakistan.

http://www.rawa.org/rawa/2009/05/13/the-warlord-mafia-regime-of-karzai-would-not-be-uncontaminated-with-criminal-fahim-flushed-down-the-toilet.html

[Aramchek]

48. HCR will be passed and Obama will pursue his new strategy in Afghanistan

He can do more than one thing at time, even if you can't fit that in your brain.

[IndianaGreen]

49. We can't afford the war, either in treasure or in lives!

And the Afghan people don't want us there!

[Aramchek]

56. when did you become the spokesman of the Afghan People?

[avalonofmists]

57. We do not have enough cash to beat the Drug trade. Simple as that.

[Aramchek]

59. we don't have to.

[DesertRat]

33. Heartbreaking...k&r

[Duende azul]

38. The only hope was shattered when the last secular government was toppled by US funding of jihadists

to lure the Soviets into their Vietnam.

[IndianaGreen]

41. They were financed by Saudi Arabia

People forget that the Taliban are Wahhabis. Saudi Arabia funds a global network of Wahhabi schools.



http://www.rawa.org/rawa/2009/10/03/afghan-women-resist-occupation-and-fundamentalism-rawa-tour-usa-2009.html

[Duende azul]

46. You are right, there were more players involved.

But the US had their hand in it, Brzezinski bragged about that trap they sat for the Soviets.


Clinton copied that model by inviting jihadists to help in the breakup of Yugoslavia.

[IndianaGreen]

47. Clinton hired Al-Qaeda to bring fighters into Kosovo

until the entire scheme was exposed in the British press and they were decommissioned.

[VMI Dem]

42. Rec.

[newspeak]

58. I've said it more than once on this forum

When the Taliban was ruling Afghanistan, they had the highest rate of female suicide in the world. It seems nothing has changed--and no matter how * attempted to make women's issues as another reason for the invasion-I knew it was BS. Karzai is an oil man doing his oil corporate master's bidding--they could care less what happens to women in Afghanistan.

And, I'm going to say something that will probably get me flamed-when we were supporting the most fanatical fighters against the Soviets-Afghanistan women were given liberation under Soviet rule--access to college, working outside the home as teachers, flight attendants, etc.... There was an article in the The Nation about the plight of women in Afghanistan at the time. The truth is that our policies are about lucrative corporate domination and has nothing to do about democracy, or rights. We'll go for any depraved dictator that will bend in favor for corporations over their people. And once, they are deemed to be a liability or no longer going along with the program--we take them out charging them with their depravity and offer another puppet in their place.