There is a simple solution for "denial of coverage" without mandates

[Armstead]

This is so straightforward I'm surprised it has not been part of the "debate" over health care the last year.

Okay, the Democrats want to protect the precious insurance companies from having to shoulder the burden of covering people who actually need healthcare. So they are allowing the insurance industry to impose mandates on everyone to buy insurance.

Technically it's a government mandate -- but without public coverage, it is a mandate to buy private insurance.

Well, here's an alternative that would protect the dear insurance companies without the enforced corporate socialism of mandates.

Make it possible for anyone who is denied coverage for a "pre-existing condition," or who has their rates jacked up for medical reasons or their insurance taken away, to be eligible to buy into Medicare.

In other words, you can't get private insurance because of your health -- or potential health problems? Then you can sign up for Medicare at a reasonable rate, regardless of age.

Seems like this would have been one compromise that would have made sense. Not a total answer, but it would address one specific aspect of this, without strengthening the hold of priovate insurance over everyone else.

[Warren Stupidity]

1. That would wreck medicare.

It would drive all the high cost sick people into medicare as insurance companies would be free to continue to discriminate against them. Medicare would be bankrupt overnight.

[DrToast]

7. Exactly. There's a reason nobody ever proposed this

It wouldn't work.

[SharonAnn]

8. That's what they did in Tennessee for TennCare. It almost bankrupted the state.

Because insurance companies really cherry-picked, there were few rules they had to follow, and a rejection letter from them permitted an individual to buy into TennCare (Medicaid).

Of course the insurance companies got insanely rich and the state almost went bankrupt.

The rules were significantly changed in 2002 when a Democratic governor took over. So now, insurance companies can deny you and you have nowhere to go.

[Armstead]

14. The only thing that will work is forcing everyone onto private insurance eh?

Christ this place feels more and more like the forum for the US Chambwr of Commerce.

[Warren Stupidity]

23. Completely missing the point. nt.

[Armstead]

13. Using your logic, let's throw all those damn old people off Medicare

Using hard nosed business logic, there is no reason Medicare should have those nasty old people who cost so much money enrolled in it. They're going to die soon anyway.

Take off your damn green eyeshades and stop thinking like a Republican for a few minutes.

[Warren Stupidity]

22. Medicare is indeed expensive because of the people it serves.

However the way to solve that is not to toss all the rest of the people too expensive for the private insurance cartels to bother with into medicare too, it is to put everyone into medicare.

Look, I'm sure your intentions were in the right place, but your scheme is massively flawed. Deal with the issue I raised, that your plan would in fact dump all the expensive sick people into medicare. How is that to be paid for? Your plan would increase the profits of the insurance cartel - now free to kick all the unhealthy to the curb. Great plan. Go ahead and flame me for pointing out what a crappy idea it is, but at least try to deal with why it is crappy.

[sandnsea]

2. Or create state-run Medical Insurance Pools

Oh yeah - THEY'RE TOO FREAKING EXPENSIVE.

Good lord. NONE of this will work without subsidies. People don't have coverage because they can't afford it. PERIOD.

The mandates were to satisfy people like Krugman to begin with. The left. NOT the insurance companies.

The mandates are to bring everybody in to have the best opportunity to REDUCE COSTS so that universal health coverage has a prayer in hell of working in the long run.

[Hello_Kitty]

4. I'm so glad that millionaire Dr. Krugman is satisfied. eom

[sandnsea]

5. Read the entire thread

And then try this novel idea - THINK.

[stray cat]

6. I'm not concerned about most blog posters opinions either

or the right wing. However, there are some knowledgeable people I am willing to hear out.

[Armstead]

19. Subsidies are just circular money -- Where do you think they come from?

[Gman2]

3. You will then create recission/only healthy clients on steroids.

The ins companies already get rid of all those sickos. the old. That would allow them to recruit all young, well heeled. And leave all the potential sickos to the gov, so that they can point their crooked finger to the gov not being able to run a juice stand.

[Armstead]

16. You would rather they continue to have Godlike command over life and death?

I say let the f' government have the role it should of ensuring that all Americans have access to coverage, and let the insurance companies play in their private enterprise sandbox.

They can make as much damn profit as they want to in my opinion -- as long as they are not allowed to continue to hold us hostage for the sake of their profits.

[vaberella]

9. I think your plan will result in a potential mess.

Isn't this what Grayson is doing? I appreciate his effort...but his 4 page bill has a lot of revamping and cleaning up to do...seriously. Because you don't thrust millions of people in the messed up plan. That's why I said his bill would have to be added alongside HRC.

[HughMoran]

10. "the Democrats want to protect the precious insurance companies"

FAIL.

Unrec & hide this garbage. Try not to tilt the argument so much - you might get a tiny bit of respect.

[Armstead]

12. Why the hell else are they SO RESISTANT to even a mild public option?

This whole fricking health care "reform" is ALL ABOUT perpetuating the present private insurance system.

Make it a little bit "kinder and gentler" but God forbid anything should be done that would actually remove the monopoly the insurance companies have over the system.

It's bullshit and if you are honest with yourself, you know it is. Otherwise WHY NOT create a public insurance program or even a little bitty public option?

Because they want to keep the system as it is -- That's why not.

If you objectively look at what has happened that is the only logical conclusion.

[HughMoran]

15. "they" is just a few cowards on our side

Let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater, please!

[Armstead]

17. They is anyone who has the power to stand up and fight and is not

[HughMoran]

20. That too

I don't disagree that the Dems are also cowards when it comes to fighting for a public option. It's rather annoying at this point that they continue to string us along with these letters and bills, but if anybody isn't cynical at this point, they aren't human.

[Armstead]

21. So if you sort of agree why call the OP "garbage"?

Call me naive, or overly demanding of a principle.

But my point was that they are scared to death of doing something that the insurance companies don't want them to do. That is the ONLY explanation, because we know that a majority of them would prefer to have a public coverage program.

I am just sick and tired of political machinations and ass covering getting in the way of something so fundamentally needed and obvious as actual health care reform that gets people out from under the bootheels of private insurance pirates, and a profit-driven coveragesystem that is KILLING PEOPLE.

[Warren Stupidity]

24. Your plan to let the insurance companies deny coverage

without restraint in exchange for allowing those denied the option to buy into medicare would increase insurance cartel profitability while bankrupting medicare. You have enshrined cherry picking as 'reform'. The only major part of this really bad bill that is real reform is that it ends denial of coverage. But to do that you have to have everyone in the insurance pool, the sick and the healthy.

How is medicare supposed to care for all the sick people? Where is that money coming from? Medicare is already struggling to cover senior citizens, as they are not exactly the picture of low cost good health. Every person who looks like they might get something expensive will be curbed by the private insurers straight over to medicare. It is an insurance cartel's dream: no liabilities.

Are you going to deal with the flaw in your proposal or just continue to attack everyone pointing out why it is unworkable?

[bornskeptic]

11. It's never been a question of the insurance companies having to shoulder the cost.

You're missing the whole point. If pre-existing condition exclusion is ended,the insurance companies will only pass the additional cost on to the current policy holders. That's the way all insurance works. Without a mandate, everybody's premiums go up. Young and healthy people drop out, which, of course, causes premiums to go up more,and the cycle repeats over and over. It would work exactly the same way if the insurance were provided by the government. The insurer will always set premiums to at least cover cost.

[Armstead]

18. All the mlore reason for the government to so it -- At least they are...

theoretically accountable to the public.

And their role in providing services is theoretically to provide those services -- unlike private insurance whose job is to NOT provide services.