why NO Public Option offered in the President's Plan???

[FrenchieCat]

Well, there are plenty of theories out there, one being that the President never really wanted a Public Option to begin with. Another is that the house's Public Option is weak. Another is that we weren't gonna get a PO, period.


I see things slightly differently from that, and I base it on facts and their timeline:

#1 fact: Bennet's letter went out on February 16th, and most were somewhat shocked that it would come from him of all Senators.

#2 fact: Coincidently (or not) Obama campaigns with Bennet in Colorado on February 18th,
just 2 days after the letter comes out.

#3 fact: White House states that Obama will sign a bill with a Public Option if Reid works it out with his fellow Senators, via a reconciliation or not.

#4 fact: Obama campaigns for Reid in Nevada on February 19th.

#5 fact: Reid comes out supporting the Public Option on February 20th.


What does this tell me if I'm paying attention instead of being pissed?

One, that Obama understands that if he comes out forcefully for a Public Option BEFORE the meeting on the 25th,
than the Republicans/Media will fixate on that, and nothing else.

....a losing proposition if he ends up providing a target for the opposition,
when his plans are for an entirely different target;
the Republicans lack of ideas and to showcase their bogus opposition.

The truth is that a Public Option cannot pass the Senate as part of the regular bill,
cause the bill already passed without a Public Option in it.

Obama understands that as long as there are 50 Senators to sign their support for a Public Option, than the Public Option can be added to a reconciliation bill which is the only way the Public Option can pass the Senate....so him including this bill in his plan would do little good in the real scheme of things, since it would be interpreted by our infamous Corporate media as starting over.

In otherwords, Pres. Obama to include the PO into his plan at this moment would do nothing except win some temporary brownie points with his "base" (but brownie points does not a bill pass).

What Pres. Obama does expect us to do (instead of us always talking about what we expect from him)
is to pressure those 50 Senators to get them to sign the public option letter.

He always has said he needed our help, and this is how we can help get ourselves what we want.
The point is that the people must want and demand and make noise. That's what community activism is
all about, and Pres. Obama understands this from his days as a community organizer.

Meanwhile, if Pres. Obama had included a PO in his plan, the Republicans would be screaming "do over" and "Hell No" non-stop while sucking all of the oxygen, microphones, and media ink out of the room.

Of course, we would be clapping wildly, AND sitting on our hands forgetting to contact our Senators because we'd consider it a done deal, when it ain't even close to that until there are 50 senators making this statement.

This also helps put those in the House who have insisted on a PO at ease to pass the Senate Bill
pretty much as is,
as most who needed to had already stated that as long as they could be assured that there would be a senate fix, they would do it....and a publicly signed letter pledging to support the PO by senators is exactly that; insurance/signed, sealed and delivered assurance.

The slow drip of PO support by Senators serves two purposes; helps play the PR media news war each day.....and encourages Americans who support a PO to contact our Senators........kind of like that domino thing-ie.

The beauty of it is that it's all quite doable......and actually is the only way to get a PO at this point.

so that's what we need to continue doing....writing, calling and phoning our Senators....
cause everything else will not get us a Public Option.

Keep in mind that the President could French kiss the Pubic Option right in the mouth on national television, but without the senate count of at least 50, it wouldn't matter....would be wasted tongue.

I think Obama is playing it right, and at the end of the day, it is exactly what democracy is
all about and how it is supposed to work.....we the people demand from our Senators what we want in order to get it, and then the President signs it into law.

[DebbieCDC]

1. His deals with Big Pharma and Big Insurance don't allow for anything for middle class America

It's that simple. There's never been anything for most of us in this deal -- just more for Big Pharma and Big Insurance.

[ProSense]

3. His

deals?

White House Health Proposal May Blow Up PhRMA Deal

[Schema Thing]

15. absolute bullshit

"There's never been anything for most of us in this deal " Horsepucky.


There is great stuff for most everyone. Especially for those of us w/o insurance.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

34. could you point me to some actuall *proof* of this deal, aside from

what some people speculate or think?

[vaberella]

51. Funny you should say that.

He supported drug reimportation publicly on December 9, 2009 and continued until the vote which was lost. This would have shat all over the supposed Big Pharma deal. Secondly his plan currently shits on Big Pharma deal again. You can read it at daily Kos, so I'm trying to figure out the dynamics of the Big PHarma deal which allows the President to shit on supposed deal.

Obama supporting drug reimportation as proposed in the Dorgan bill which shat on any Big Pharma deal:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=47254&mesg_id=47254

Another one: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x46791

DailyKos account on his new plan which shits on Big PHarma:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/2/22/839389/-Obama-HCR-to-Include-DiFis-Rate-Control-BillUpdated-wWH-Proposal

Thread which mentions directly where Obama shat on any supposed big pHarma deal within his new bill:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=192687&mesg_id=192687

[Flying Dream Blues]

2. As FDR once supposedly told someone, "I agree with you. Now,

make me do it."

[DrToast]

30. And as someone else said...

"Some acting like a fucking child and do your job."

[FrenchieCat]

41. That would be the Senate's job......

To pass the law that the people want, last I checked.

Our job is to make sure they know what we want done....
and if they don't, to do what it takes so that they can figure it out.

It's called Citizen action.

"I know you didn't do this just to win an election and I know you didn't do it for me. You did it because you understand the enormity of the task that lies ahead. For even as we celebrate tonight, we know the challenges that tomorrow will bring are the greatest of our lifetime - two wars, a planet in peril, the worst financial crisis in a century.....

The road ahead will be long. Our climb will be steep. We may not get there in one year or even one term, but America - I have never been more hopeful than I am tonight that we will get there. I promise you - we as a people will get there.

There will be setbacks and false starts. There are many who won't agree with every decision or policy I make as President, and we know that government can't solve every problem. But I will always be honest with you about the challenges we face. I will listen to you, especially when we disagree. And above all, I will ask you join in the work of remaking this nation the only way it's been done in America for two-hundred and twenty-one years - block by block, brick by brick, calloused hand by calloused hand. " - Barack Obama, Acceptance Speech at Grant Park
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_pl135

"Today I say to you that the challenges we face are real. They are serious and they are many. They will not be met easily or in a short span of time. But know this, America — they will be met.

On this day, we gather because we have chosen hope over fear, unity of purpose over conflict and discord.

On this day, we come to proclaim an end to the petty grievances and false promises, the recriminations and worn out dogmas, that for far too long have strangled our politics.
snip
In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that greatness is never a given. It must be earned. Our journey has never been one of shortcuts or settling for less. It has not been the path for the faint-hearted — for those who prefer leisure over work, or seek only the pleasures of riches and fame. Rather, it has been the risk-takers, the doers, the makers of things —
some celebrated but more often men and women obscure in their labor, who have carried us up the long, rugged path towards prosperity and freedom.
snip
What is required of us now is a new era of responsibility — a recognition, on the
part of every American, that we have duties to ourselves, our nation, and the world, duties that we do not grudgingly accept but rather seize gladly, firm in the knowledge that there is nothing so satisfying to the spirit, so defining of our character, than giving our all to a difficult task.

This is the price and the promise of citizenship."

http://www.reobama.com/SpeechesJan2009.htm

[Go2Peace]

37. No, he did not mean this kind of situation. Obama knows what we want.

I have done my part and am sick of this game. At this point the President could have pushed the PO over, but his back and forth and continuing to put in writing is clearly indicating he doesn't really want a PO.

If the PO passes, in my mind the President gets no credit, if it fails, he has a good part of the blame. I have NEVER had my parties' President do something that feels so much like I have been "gamed" and manipulated.

[FrenchieCat]

42. It's not a "Game" although it is hard to tell considering the behavior

of Republicans and the News Media.

How are they doing in your book?
cause they are the ones we have to deal with....
them and the town cryers and the teabaggers.

Manipulation comes in many forms...
but seems like you can only point at the President
being guilty of something that even we, the people, play.

Why do you think they call us fickle? Must be our sheer impatience,
lack of memory, our knee Jerk reaction to most things,
our extreme high expectation of one person,
and our esire to get things done quick when our
political system is not set up for it.

Your game started the day you joined.
Hope you'll be done soon. :eyes:

[Go2Peace]

49. Of course I should expect that from you. No tolerance of opinions that aren't your own

I have a relative that described how people were so afraid in the Soviet Union that leadership would get wind they did not approve of them that even when they had no toilet paper and used newspaper they had to be careful to cut out the pictures of party leaders, lest someone find out they wiped themselves with it.

You have no idea how your opressive attempts to make others believe as you do carry some semblance to that. Get a grip. You cross the line and don't represent democracy well when you do this.

Somehow I don't think you see yourself this way. You spend a lot of time on this site. Internet debating can grate on you. Maybe you need to take a day or two and rest? Because everyone who thinks differently than you is not "an enemy".

[FrenchieCat]

53. You don't have to believe a doggone thing!

That's the beauty of political forums.
We can debate, and then you can walk away.
There are more folks than just you reading this...
and although to you it is entirely possible that I come across as dogmatic,
perhaps you were only looking for a choir or something? :shrug:

If so, the Choir went thisaway.....

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Fire1]

96. That doesn't sound like he can win with YOU, either way!

Not surprising.

[Cha]

4. Yes, President Obama is

a hellava lot smarter than the opinions on the internet.

[ZombieHorde]

5. Interesting argument, I look forward to seeing what happens. nt

[FrenchieCat]

17. Me too!

:hi:

[ohiodemocratic]

6. Do you think the PO is necessary? n/t

[FrenchieCat]

8. I think that yes, we need it much more than we don't.

[Oregone]

7. Super Secret 3D Chess

[FrenchieCat]

9. I didn't unearth any secrets, I simply thought about what was going on.

Grey matter doesn't equal a secret.....

But if you want to believe that there is no strategy at play,
well, you can do that. I'm not sure if you would be correct
though. :shrug:

[Oregone]

16. It seems that at every point...

People have presumed they are privy to strategic bouts that have corresponded to some grand plan the administration has in mind (what a long path they took to get here today, but everything is for the Best in the Best of All Possible Worlds). And all such strategic moves are decidingly in their favor from the benevolent masterminds in control.

If it makes you feel better to think of it this way, then you are welcomed to that. Almost anyone can convince themselves of this reality in a variety of terrible situations, I presume.

Of course there is strategy in politics. But to assume its always in your favor and part of some cohesive masterplan, that is all unfolding perfectly (despite what appears to be happening), is a bit naive. Cute, but naive.

[FrenchieCat]

20. It would seem that at every point

you have been against this President and just about anything he's done or was going to do.

I've used plain old facts and a timeline which supports my opinion....
you've used nada to attempt to wish what I am saying away.

Fact: The Senate Bill has already passed without a PO.
Fact: House members stated that they needed assurance of a Senate Fix to come afterwards,
to pass the Senate bill as is.
Fact: A letter publicly supporting voting for a PO is public, and leaves little room for an exit, therefore assuring what the house wants as long as 50 sign on.
Fact: The media was salivating at Obama including a PO in his bill, and he didn't do it; hence
low key reporting of his bill, i.e., lack of any real controversy.

I'll certainly agree that you may be right in that there may not always be a strategy....
but to assume that there is never one is just as naive, if not more so.

[Oregone]

26. "you have been against this President and just about anything he's done or was going to do"

Pretty much. I think his general approach of letting the Senate & Congress fuck together a bastardized piece of shit while making ambiguous (and sometimes contradictory) statements about what he prefers they come up with, has been...lets say...lacking. And that goes all the way back to the stimulus bill. Certain approaches the administration has taken have been complete repudiations of many socialistic solution needed to address these rather radical times. Obama is treading the perilous pathway of the Third Way; trying to make everyone happy while not realizing a single misstep will result in political disaster (and potentially economic and social disaster for the country). He is tiptoeing around a minefield when he could have taken the straight-ward path on the left to address many of the problems the country faces.

Obama has been great at mending and improving foreign relations. Aside from that...from health care, economic stimulus, war, and even the cap and trade bill, well, there is quite a bit to be disappointed about. Honestly, on almost every account, he has met my direct expectations. I didn't expect a miracle in America, and surely, they didn't get one. It would just be nice if people living there, on all sides of the isle, realized that.

I'm not here to "bash" Obama. I rarely ever mention his name. Rarely. Mostly, I talk about policy. And sadly, its just been lacking on many accounts, in many instances. And despite this, there is a frothing band of people who will eat up ANYTHING that the administration says. Everything is justified as being part of some convoluted plan, or otherwise, the fault of forces beyond the infallible presidents reach. To me, thats just a tad too far.

At the end of the day, I'm proud to say I don't just follow along, and bend my logic and thoughts to support belief as truth. At the end of the day, I'm the type of person who can criticize policy for not delivering social justice, and unabashedly say, "I welcome your hatred".

[FrenchieCat]

29. You have a right to your opinion, but it simply doesn't make you right.

It's good that you don't follow along, cause neither do I.
I'm just as special as you and I think about what I say, before I say it.

As for this hatred you speak of,
I'm sure Pres. Obama welcomes your....

and as for me, I have better things than worrying about hatred...
if I did, I wouldn't post here any longer, cause certainly I have
my share of folks that cannot stand me and accuse me of "bend my logic and thoughts to support belief as truth" every chance they get.....

[Oregone]

32. Ditto

And I have no hatred for Obama as a person, despite your unfounded insinuation. Its not even about him--its about policy. Its sad some cannot see that still.

I think you missed my historical reference regarding 'hatred', but thats fine. I think there is just an entirely different Democratic party that I associate with, and its not this one. I trust you can put two and two together.

[FrenchieCat]

33. You are free to think what you want.

period.

[inna]

35. Good post, Oregone.

"I'm the type of person who can criticize policy for not delivering social justice"

- Kudos to you. And it's just mind blowing that so many people even on this board (let alone the rest of the country) are not able to do just that.

[FrenchieCat]

36. Yep....Oregone is really, really special!

and You too!

Mostly everyone else stinks.

:applause:

[inna]

43. LOL, you really can do better than this. nt

[FrenchieCat]

44. I'm good, thank you!

and how are you, Inna? :pals:

[spiritual_gunfighter]

88. What he said was special

agreed.

[Go2Peace]

40. +1

[saracat]

46. great post +1000

[area51]

66. +1 (n/t)

[pecwae]

76. Good response.

In the threads where I've seen you take part you haven't done any "bashing", but have made observations and offered your criticism of policy. The problem here is that many times even the mildest critique is seen as "hatred". Doesn't make for much of an environment for actual discussion or debate.

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FrenchieCat]

79. Never mind...

simply not worth a response....since the poster is so off topic doing nothing more than trying to ridicule others, as opposed to having anything substansive to say about policy or strategy.

[freddie mertz]

82. Thanks for one of the best posts I have ever read anywhere on the interwebs.

The context is a bit tragic, of course.

I am afraid that your correspondents will not be moved what you have to to say, and will never understand your main point, which is predicated on a worldview that does not have Obama as the sun, the moon, and stars, the Alpha and Omega, the Pantokrator and lord of the universe (except in those cases where he is absolutely powerless, of course, like when dealing with the Senate)...

People need to try and understand that for many of us, these issues have occupied our thoughts and motivated our actions for decades now, long before the current POTUS came of the scene.

And the struggle continues, no matter who sits in the WH, or which party is in office.

That is how it always is, and the advent of a new president cannot , and most assuredly in this case, HAS NOT, changed that basic equation.

Thanks again, Oregone!

[spiritual_gunfighter]

90. It was a great point

These issues for me and for I am sure you and many of us go way back before Obama and even transcend his Presidency. The ones who claim we are "haters" fail to understand that and assume we are attacking Obama as a person. It is much bigger than that and the struggle will continue long after Obama is out of office.

[freddie mertz]

92. It's a lifetime commitment.

We saw RFK and Dr. King shot and killed, and had to go on after that.

Not easy.

We shall transcend this moment too.

Thank the Gods of Olympus.

[HughMoran]

21. Common sense

One thing we see very, very little of here.

[vaberella]

54. ~sigh~ So right. n/t

[Beetwasher]

10. I Can't Wait To See All The Heads Explode Around Here When The PO Is Passed Through Reconciliation

Yup, you heard it here first. Beetwasher is going on record. The PO is going to pass through reconciliation.

Oh, and yes, of course my dear FC, you are correct in your astute assessment of the politics involved. The "slow build" to climax is better than than the "wham bam, thank you m'aam" any day (well, most of the time anyway! ;)).

[FrenchieCat]

11. Some call it the "Long view".....

and those with knee jerk patience call it failure....

There's a large difference between the two....
as we all know, this country has been going in a knee-jerk
direction for years now. The media is that way as well.
I think this White House understands this more and more,
and how this knee-jerk can be used to gain a win from that kind of a mindset.
It doesn't take a brain surgeon; just some patience and tolerance for
high level noise.

Of course, it ain't over till it's over....
and I think we should all agree about that,
by now, if nothing else.

[inna]

38. Are you high? Public Option is not even under consideration right now.

Oh dear. :crazy:

[FrenchieCat]

39. Really?

You think?

I beg to differ.

It may not be signed into law with this specific bill that
has already passed both houses, but if I were you,
and as I have recommended to the media, don't call anything dead
until we are at the cemetary and the dirt has been shoveled over the grave....

till then.

[inna]

45. You can believe whatever you want, but PO at this point is extremely unlikely.

PO is a distraction and a bait-and-switch, anyway, as was explained many times on this board and elsewhere.

What needed is.... see my signature. Good night.

[FrenchieCat]

47. Nite-nite!

:hi:

[Beetwasher]

78. You Don't Pay Attention:

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/02/how-outside-groups-and-vulnerable-dems-gave-the-public-option-a-new-pulse.php

[vaberella]

62. If a PO is passed it will be seen as not enough and a compromise.

I remember when the PO had potential many on here was accusing it of not going far enough or far reaching. So in the end no one will ever be satisfied no matter how you do things. It's the same thing if Medicare for all was instilled. If there were new criteria's imposed and set ups then it would not be enough for some and for others too much. There is never a win here. People will complain no matter what and mainly because it doesn't match their vision, even if it's unlikely to work as they picture it, if it's not functional as they see it, or they model it after an entirely different country with a different set up. So all in all there is these major rifts and this is why I don't understand why there cannot be some understanding.

First of all the PO for me was not the end all be all. It would be great and wonderful if it was added. But I'm not expecting it as the panacea to end all things. We have issues medicare/medicaid that needs to be addressed, we have quality of life things to be addressed, money and funding for community health clinics, we have refinement of regs for children and mothers, we have extending health care to young adults...I mean so much more and so many things that the PO doesn't necessarily address.

Not to mention, lowering costs and opening clinics for people who already have insurance, and to open it to people who need insurance. I mean if we take into consideration all of these things. PO is just a small fraction of what we need to be done. Health reform is a massive and sweeping legislation of 2000+ pages for House and Senate bill that addresses so many things. So when I see people bashing or saying kill it or saying it's not enough. It will never be enough no matter how some look at it and compared to what we have now it does so much.

Ugh...it's like they want to maintain the status quo until it meets their quota but even if we get to where some of them agree there probably will be some dissension as to what is being done and how. A good example is the LGBT community which needs massive change in the form of repealing bills and implementing more human rights protection laws and extending their rights as citizens. You have some that applaud the Presidents efforts, they say it's not enough but see some marked change or movement towards something and are hopeful for more. Then you have the others who say Obama has not done a thing...and they stand by him not making any steps.

[grytpype]

12. Because he's a corporatist meanie!!!!

:cry::cry::cry:

[FrenchieCat]

13. Plus it allows us to see which Senator is which......

and before, it wasn't all that clear....because we can believe it or not,
but the PO is in the Senate's hand, and has been ever since the House passed
a bill with a PO.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

19. Again, I agree. Who will be the Democratic Senators obstructing what the people want?

Yeah, call them out!!!

whipcongress.com

[Clio the Leo]

14. exactly what I've been thinking...

... but I AM fatally optimistic. :)

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

18. I agree with you Frenchie. There's a "meet me half way and demonstrate desire for public option"

strategy at play here. I totally agree. It shows that both branches of government are working on this issue. The meeting ground will be the public option. All the Senate has to do is garner the votes. The president will meet the challenge.

[Dinger]

22. Deleted Message

Figured I'd save the embarrassment and do it myself.

[FrenchieCat]

23. I'm glad folks are Unre'ccing.......

as there is no need to signal any of this to asshole Republicans and their ilk.

So thanks! :hi:




:rofl:

[vaberella]

55. Another good point. But it shows...how silly the left can be when it comes to politics.

I'm sure if the right saw your post, they'd agree with you. They learned to never underestimate the Pres unlike many DUers.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[vaberella]

63. Admittedly true. I can't disagree with you.

I'm the Independent who loves big government social programs---and just all social programs and who doesn't mind high taxes to pay for such programs. While we have my Socialists friends, semi-socialist friends. Then there are the Dems---who lean more towards Bayh. Then there is the straight Repubs in my eyes who vote Dem since they fear what the repubs in power will do. :D

Ugh, When I saw some posters here bashing the stimulus and yet the stimulus is getting some serious praise----well I don't know. It's like the many on here who wanted the car industry to fail.

[QC]

83. Perhaps the Left should spend more time watching West Wing. n/t

[freddie mertz]

69. You really think they come here looking for talking points?

That's rich.:crazy:

[tabatha]

24. I am so glad that some people think a little deeper

than a bumper-sticker superficial whine.

I had some of those thoughts, but hate to commit to paper so as not to jinx it all.

One fly in the ointment, though, is Rockefeller.

[Kalun D]

25. Something

Obama has to do something about his plummeting approval or he's not going to get re-elected.

helping solve one of working class America's biggest problems, poor health care coverage, would turn around his approval overnight.

[FrenchieCat]

28. LOL!

50% or even near it with nearly 10% unemployment rate,
and a kiss-GOP-ass corporate media leading the gullible by the nose,
seems pretty remarkable.

13 months in, and with 35 months left to serve on this term
I think this Pres. Obama is doing quite well.

[hay rick]

27. Rec

Sounds like wishful thinking, but I hope you're right.

[FrenchieCat]

31. The facts are there, and so there are no real Wishes in what I've said......

just hard work from us convincing at least 50 senators to sign onto a letter.

Is there something I'm missing? :shrug:

[vaberella]

48. Why does this thread have one rec, well with mine 2. It should have more.

I agree with you 100% Frenchie. I think you nailed that on the head. The Republicans would have destroyed the PO before it even got started. I can see why some progressives wouldn't agree with this because they just want the President to appear at fault for everything. But seems more along the lines of how he works. Behind the scenes and with very little fanfare to get shit done.

[FrenchieCat]

50. Cause a logic based theory with a timeline and obvious evidence as back up

is scary? :scared:

[vaberella]

52. Ugh DU...full of punks. Great work Frenchie b/c I found it very insightful.

You'd think by now people would get that the Pres is not about fanfare or grandstanding. He's trying to get things done the best way he can't. And if someone sees the timeline there is no 3-D chess, it's basic political maneuvering. I used to watch The West Wing---that's enough insight on how bills get passed and deals are being made. Especially considering the Repubs will find any way imaginable to destroy this---and I'm talking about health care reform in general not even the PO. So, your post nailed it for me.

[FrenchieCat]

56. Well putting together a Summit and then sabotaging it

by making it about something other than what you want it to be about
would be rather silly.....

And I don't consider this President to be silly.

[QC]

74. "He's trying to get things done the best way he can't." n/t

[damonm]

60. Scares hell outta the haters,

because it shows they're wrong. They've got FAR too much emotional energy invested in their anti-Obamaness (since alienation is cool for the Stupid) to stand for facts, logic, etc.

[freddie mertz]

86. In order to solve a mystery or predict an event through evidence like a "time line"..

You have to approach the possible answer with a reasonable measure of OBJECTIVITY.

That is what I see lacking in your effort here.

You start with a PRESUMPTION: that the president actually cares about a public option and wants to help it get passed.

Problem is, he hasn't even HINTED about anything like this since July 2009.

And when he HAS spoken about it, it has always been in terms of minimizing its importance, or denying he ever "campaigned" on it.

In other words, the central evidence for his INTENTIONS in this case all points, not to his enduring support, but to an ever-increasing indifference to the public option.

In other words, your reading of the "facts" is not convincing as an analysis, since you leave out important information that doesn't square with your apparently pre-determined narrative.

It is, in that sense, utterly ILLOGICAL.

[NYC_SKP]

57. Rec and Kick...

I'd rather see your post at the top of "New and Hot" than mine.

:P

[damonm]

59. HAH! Another rec - good work, Frenchie!

But yer just too damned sensible for DU...:toast:

[FrenchieCat]

61. Ooh....now see, that's sexy.....

calling me sensible and shit! :loveya:

[damonm]

93. I have many other such adjectives...

and :loveya: right back atcha...

[dkf]

64. So the people have to lead, not the President?

Is that his entire plan? To not suggest popular measures and then expect US to get it done? Hmm. I'm not sure if that is what we expect of our President. It feels like the way Obama expected the Senate to get a decent bill together and followed them around until the whole thing fell apart.

[lamp_shade]

65. Thank you Frenchie for putting your thoughts so clearly into words.

I've drawn the same conclusion and hoped that somebody here would put them on paper. I should have known I could count on you. You're the best.

[freddie mertz]

68. It's chess!! And he's "playing it right!"

:nopity: :hangover: :freak: :shrug: :spray:

[Armstead]

70. My opinion -- No Po because he's a weenie.

Yes I said it.

Even if your logic and analysis are correct, he is being a weenie.

Right NOW is the time -- if ever there was one -- for him to stand behind those Senators and House members who want a public option.

He could make the difference in convincing the wavering ones that it is safe to jump and do it.

ANY health plan is a target for the GOP, public option or not.

Why doesn't he just come out and join the push fir real reform that includes the beginning of a public health insurance program?

Only two possible answers. Either A)He doesn't really want that or B) he is afraid to actually take a stand and exercise leadership -- in other words, weeniedom.

[MadHound]

71. There are going to be some really disappointed people around here when the PO is officially dropped

People have put so much emotion and faith into Obama that when reality finally sets in, they're going to be lost.

Or perhaps they'll simply continue the spin, finding justification after justification, or worse, resort to telling anybody who will listen just how great the "victory" was and how this gift to the insurance industry is actually in our own best interests.

Interesting times, yes indeed.

[QC]

72. The new spin is already starting to appear--the PO is a dreaded "market solution"

and thus no good at all (even though it was good enough to campaign on), while regulating premiums will save the day.

[pecwae]

75. When the denial EOBs

start piling up I wonder how happy everyone will still be with their regulated premium? Health insurance doesn't equate health care.

[QC]

84. It will be someone else's fault. n/t

[AllentownJake]

73. LOL

So President Obama is willing to put his ass on the line for Insurance mandates, not popular, but won't for the public option, very popular.

What level of chess are we playing these days.

[freddie mertz]

80. The level where we, the American people, are the losers.

The president has absolutely no interest in an actual public option.

It was nothing more than political rhetoric.

To put it charitably: he has a credibility problem on this issue.

[FrenchieCat]

81. I've heard this from you many times.......

over and over again.
I hear you, but I don't agree with you.
The losers are those who complaint about the same thing constantly,
just because they can.

[Bobbie Jo]

85. Day, after day, after day, after day, etc.....

It's a continuous loop. :crazy:

[freddie mertz]

87. Just like the main narrative here?

[Bobbie Jo]

89. What "narrative" would that be?

[freddie mertz]

91. Have you read the OP? I posted some detailed critiques of that narrative further up.

My point was and is that the fundamental preconception of the OP narrative, namely that the president is committed in any way at this point to a public option--is not supported by any evidence.

[Bobbie Jo]

94. I wasn't referring to this particular OP, but in general terms....

the narrative you seem to be pushing day after day can be summarized in one word: FAIL.

Obviously I disagree with your "narrative." With few exceptions, 99% of your posts center around your disappointment with one thing or another in varying degrees. Perhaps its unfair to claim that this attitude is indicative of your demeanor in general terms, but when this is what you put out there day, after day, after day, one starts to recognize a pattern.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

95. There is NO way he's going to put a PO in *his* plan

Otherwise, the summit on the 25th is going to be a total bust and the Repubs are going to be out in full force (with the help of the "liberal media") complaining about Obama not being "bipartisan" and, unfortunately, we probably won't win the spin and it will make it more difficult to steamroll the Repubs. Putting a PO in *his* plan at this point would almost be like Obama sticking a white hot poker in the Repub's eyes and, while the Repubs deserve it and such an action would undoubtedly excite "the base", it will probably doom the possibility of either reaching a sensible REAL bipartisan compromise agreement on HCR with the Repubs (if that's even possible) or simply embarrassing the Repubs again. I've heard nothing to indicate that Obama would absolutely refuse to sign legislation creating a PO assuming one could get through Congress at some point but it would seem that he's not going to refuse to sign legislation that doesn't have a PO either- which is sensible IMHO. If Congress wants one bad enough and passes one anyway, we'll get it either in this legislation or separately. HCR seems destined to happen one way or another and all signals seem to suggest that this the Repubs' FINAL chance to be a part of the process instead of roadblock to it. A lot of people here scoff at the idea that Obama is "playing chess" (i.e. having a long-term strategy) but it's impossible for me to believe that he doesn't have a long-term strategy for winning in the end and that he is simply making things up as he goes along. It's just not the "in- your-face" approach advocated by many people here, however, which is clearly NOT Obama's style (in case we haven't figured THAT out yet).