Enough. This is just insane!

[impik]

Do you people have any grasp of reality? Do you even remember where was this country 10 months ago? Do you even remember that the economy was staring straight to the abyss? Do you even remember what was done to this country in the previous 8 years? The horrible, horrible decade that is finally ending? Did you ever, in your lifetime, saw an incoming president having to face a pile of crap bigger than what waited to Barack Obama on January 20?

Do you even care about the fact that in 10 months this president has done things that no president did in 30-40 years? Did you bother to stop for a second and check the facts? The biggest investment EVER in clean energy, the biggest investment EVER in education, the biggest investment in infrastructure since the 50s, passing laws that were stinking in congress for years and years. Completely restoring America's standing in the world. Creating what is easilly the most open and transparent White House ever. Setting date to end the war in Iraq, exactly within the time frame he promised in the campaign. Getting closer than anyone ever to health care reform that as flawed as it will be, it's still a huge improvement over the current situation. Trying to close Guantanamo despite the cowardly congress. And doing all this while facing almost an unprecedented Right-Wing hate machine, and a stunningly bad congress. What did you think, that he'll fix 8 years worth of horrible damage in less than a year?

And now you have complaints about Michelle's dress at a State Dinner? Seriously? You complaint about the Obama's vacation?? What vacation? They took 10 days in August and spent half the time grieving over Ted Kennedy. This is the most hard working president i've ever seen. Is he perfect? Of course not. Who is? Did he make mistakes? Of course. Will he make more? You can bet on it. But he's doing the best job anyone could have under the crazy circumstances he faces, and he remains graceful, noble, cool, calm and collected. The only adult in the room.

The way the Left vilify this man after 10 months - Actually it started much earlier - makes me sick. Some of you deserve George Bush. But hang in there. In three years i hope that Obama just say "F*** it", take his family back to Chicago and leave the insane Right AND THE INSANE LEFT with what they deserve: Sarah Palin.

Flame, HR, spin, insist that you're only "criticizing" him when so much of it is pure hate and delegitimizing of this man - Do whatever you want. I couldn't care less. It's time that someone will tell the truth here.

Happy Thanksgiving.

[Jamastiene]

1. You sure have a funny way of wishing people Happy Thanksgiving. n/t

[roguevalley]

61. amazing. this sounds like another board where any kind of remark

that isn't worshipful is HATE!HATE!HATE!

Sad, sad, sad.

[johnaries]

122. Not "any kind of remark", just the really stupid ones. That's the OP's

point. It has gone way beyond any kind of useful or constructive debate.

[AllentownJake]

2. I might be living in a different reality than you are

And now you have complaints about Michelle's dress at a State Dinner? Seriously? You complaint about the Obama's vacation?? What vacation? They took 10 days in August and spent half the time grieving over Ted Kennedy. This is the most hard working president i've ever seen. Is he perfect? Of course not. Who is? Did he make mistakes? Of course. Will he make more? You can bet on it. But he's doing the best job anyone could have under the crazy circumstances he faces, and he remains graceful, noble, cool, calm and collected. The only adult in the room.

I read many critiques of this administration on DU. I rarely see what you are talking about.

I read people who think the Afghan escalation idea is misguided, I read people who believe the Wall Street policies are misguided, I read people who aren't happy with is increased efforts to privatize public education. I read people who are unhappy with the Health Care bill for good reasons.

I rarely have seen any talk about the dresses or vacations outside of the threads showing pictures of such things.

I think part of the reason there is a divide on DU, is because people are starting to imagine things other people are saying.

Happy Thanksgiving.

[jenmito]

14. You must've missed this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=16846&mesg_id=16846

[AllentownJake]

18. Ok that was insanely stupid and had no redeeming qualities at all

I did not see that. I don't know whether to thank you or curse you for making me read that.

[jenmito]

26. I know...

but it's reality on here nowadays. You should thank me. :)

[Chulanowa]

88. Did you also miss the thread slamming him for pardoning the turkey?

Or any of the other insane, drivel-filled threads? You really should seek them out and admire them, ATJ. After all, you and your motley crew of shit-throwing simians who have never, never, never once found anything remotely redeeming about this Administration, and who regularly attack, insult, and berate anyone who does, are the oens who made this insipid trash possible.

Give yourself a big round of applause, ATJ, you're a leader of DU's very own Teabagger and Moran Brigades.

[AllentownJake]

91. LOL

I'm now responsible for stupid posts on DU about Turkeys and Evening Gowns?

Please tell me which other post I'm responsible for that I didn't write?

[Chulanowa]

103. You're inspiring!

Go ahead, step up and take your bows, man

[AllentownJake]

105. Amazing

My plea for people to hear the President out on Tuesday, I see I got kuddoos from the Peanut Gallery from that...wait no, I got bashed even more by the same peanut gallery.

Maybe you just didn't read it like I didn't read the fucking Turkey and Evening gown thread or maybe you are like the Obama supporters I had to deal with the General Election when the Hillary people came aboard.

[AllentownJake]

108. Oh here is a link for you

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=18559&mesg_id=18559

Why don't you go on in and join the peanut gallery and further discredit my appeal for people to listen to the President, you supposedly are trying to support.

[Lilyeye]

60. He was also called an asshole for making a joke about eating a pardoned turkey

[mopinko]

66. the turkey joke comments put it over the top for me.

i don't care what these people think any more.

[shadowknows69]

107. Hell my dad hates Obama and he loved the turkey joke,

[ClarkUSA]

112. WTF? I missed that insanity. Is DU becoming a stand-in for The Onion?

:rofl:

[mopinko]

116. i only wish it was funny.

poutrage over how coarse his "i was gonna eat that sucker" joke was.
seriously, he is being jimmy-carter-ized. these people will not be laughing when they wake up to the next st ronnie of raygun.

[ClarkUSA]

120. I know... I would have been disgusted, too. I'm only glad I missed that piece of Outrage Idiocy.

I don't fear his being diminished, however. He's much more personable and charming than Jimmy Carter was, as
well as being better suited to wage legislative battles with the Congress.

The Bitter Haters here who whine with FauxRage 24/7 are part of the fringe 9% of self-identified liberals who
strongly disapprove/hate Obama. They don't make an impression on the vast majority of Democrats or independents.
Nor do they have any influence outside of DU because the hateful noise they make is indistinguishable from that of
teabaggers. The WH, most liberals, and other Americans sure as hell could give a shit about the petty malice that
defines "these people". I sure don't to be them. It must suck to be so resentful and warped.

I'm glad we're us. :fistbump:

[dionysus]

48. nice try jake, but all of that has been said and then some. you've done it too.

[OneGrassRoot]

76. +1. There is no imagining going on. Lots of hateful things...

have been said by more than one or two people. And hateful things way beyond disagreeing with policy. It is very disheartening.

Most of us are angry, frustrated and upset, but the POUNCING that has taken place when it comes to the Obama Administration...by the left...is quite a stunning thing to behold. Even though the words say they regret feeling disappointment, have tried to be patient, etc., it's as though there is a sense of delight in tearing him down and for every reason TO tear him down.

[AllentownJake]

92. Yes I enjoy tearing a man I practically worked a second full-time job to elect

Oh and the money I gave to him, that was an investment in future flame wars.

Yes, that is what is going on right now, suddenly everyone on DU is fucking jumping for joy over the idea of taking down a democratic President.

We are going to get slaughtered next year, because the policies were weak and some were bad, and you people are going to go on a witch hunt trying to blame people who pointed that out this year instead of asking yourself if there should have been better policies.

It is the democratic party way!

[OneGrassRoot]

93. I think posting to DU is your full-time job now.

You're all over these threads.

That said, I wasn't specifically talking about you in my post. It isn't about what one person or another person posts, even repeatedly. It's more of a collective thing I personally am witnessing that I speak of.

And objecting to policies is fine -- which is what I indicated in my post. It's the non-policy comments and the hatred contained in them of which I speak. I think the prevalence of those posts -- the Freeper Lite posts -- that has some of us shaking our heads.

It really doesn't even matter though....

[AllentownJake]

99. I got laid off in July

Have a little time on my hands...btw I wonder if you would have said that full-time job insult when I had a weekend to relax over the Summer of 08 or had a day off.

You gave a +1 to that insult on me.

and for every dumbass post about a Turkey or an Evening Gown, there is an equally big dumbass post comparing people to left wing tea baggers, calling people opposed to the war left wing pacifist appeasers, saying that the left wants to have a gay rights parade in front of the capital culminating with a large marriage cermony to piss everyone off etc.

However, like always, one side is pure and white as the driven snow and the other side is out to do something evil.

I will also say this, about a week ago, when someone who is normally very positive was depressed and getting negative, I did more to have the person critically think what was going on than any of the people who want to sit here and bash me personally. Their response was Fuck you...which is the constant song of the Peanut gallery. Seemed a little less concerned about one of their own than posting righteous indignation.

[OneGrassRoot]

114. While I'm sorry for your circumstances....

you are taking everything very personally. Good luck with that, especially at a message board such as this.

[treestar]

118. If you worked that hard for him, you wouldn't have given up yet

Or you are admitting to terrible judgment about who to support to work so hard for someone who managed apparently to completely fool you about what he would do once in office.

[AllentownJake]

90. Provide me one link of me getting angry over a fucking evening gown?

I swear, even when I post something nice, you fuckers jump all over me. I post a thread asking people to hold down their bile till after they at least hear the man out and one of you has to jump in and start acting like an ass.

Get over your fucking selves.

[bjobotts]

94. What the hell are you talking about? Either U don't read enough or read right wing crap

[bjobotts]

95. We give DU credit here and criticism when justified...not hate andcondemnation

[bjobotts]

96. and one or two posts do not a site make.Here we are concerned about improving the nation not egos.

[bjobotts]

97. and btw...u have several facts wrong on just what has been accomplished and what hasn't

[bjobotts]

98. Not doing what Bush did is just normal.Tell Pharma about transparency

[bjobotts]

102. Or a president that comes up with Preventive detention, forgetting Bush torture, and adapting same p

policies as Bush that he and us railed against when Bush was pres.

I thank Obama for the stimulus package but not the tax cuts it contained. It pulled us back from a great depression, but continuing the bank /Tarp fiasco was just wrong.

I suggest you use your own critical thinking to separate truth from nonsense without lumping it all together to hit people in the head with.


Even if someone mentioned Michelle Obama's dress, why heed it or repeat it when it probably doesn't even deserve a response.

[babylonsister]

3. I tried to rec'd, but got overtaken by an unrec., not surprisingly.

Thanks anyway for your attempt at reason.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[impik]

7. They can unrec this 2000 times

It's more or less the last thing i care about in the world.

But thank you anyway for the effort. :)

[goclark]

71. I applaud the poster as well

The poster is Brave to know that those words will not gain respect at DU/RU.

It is such a shame to have to listen to the anger here.

It is not a supportive friendly place anymore IMO.

There should we DU Rules that discourage this mess.
Unrecord/Record doesn't seem to do it at all.

[Jane Austin]

4. I wish you a Happy Thanksgiving, too.

I read a thread here complaining about their throwing a state dinner last night and got so disgusted I stayed away most of the day today.

It's just not enlightening to read the outrage of people who don't have a clue about how foreign relations are conducted.

[spoony]

5. After two months you've just HAD ENOUGH. lol

Thanks for setting us straight!

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

8. Best thing about the OP is that it's so original!

It's almost like hearing those creaky talking points for the very first time.

[ruggerson]

9. so who'dja used to be?

n/t

[Life Long Dem]

10. Being held accountable is one thing.

Complaining before Obama can be held responsible is another thing.

:patriot:

[liberal N proud]

11. We live in a society of instant gratification

America has become a me, now world.

The commercials that ran until recently that proclaimed "I want it all and I want it now" was nothing short of the truth.

This is not just for material goods but every need Americans think they have. So it stand to reason that no one has the patience to see the recession through and is very willing to blame the President. After all, it's all his fault now.

My brother retired from military intelligence thinking he could get a civilian position doing the same thing. The job didn't pan out and he was out of luck, who do you think he blamed? Obama of course, everything is his fault now.

People in the country need to learn a few things, patience and thinking!

[Deja Q]

39. With Tens of millions jobless,

who are either needing relatives to stay alive or are rotting in the streets, for once "instant gratification" becomes nullified.

[RepublicanElephant]

12. k&r nt

[LWolf]

13. Actually,

if, in some ludicrous fantasy world, Obama packed it up and went back to Chicago, Joe Biden would be in charge.

Sarah Palin isn't anywhere down the line.

I don't have a problem with the dress. It was lovely.

It wouldn't bother me to see Obama go back to Chicago, if he promises to take Duncan with him.

I'd rather see him make a sharp left turn.

[jenmito]

15. K&R. Thank you. Happy Thanksgiving to you, too.

AND our president. :hi:

[HopeOverFear]

16. PREACH!

tell 'em off good, honey!

[HughMoran]

17. Don't sweat it

Human life starts out as nothing more than an unrecognizable blob of cells. Some will come around when the zygote starts to become recognizable, others will abort. Telling people the blob will become a baby is not likely to be very satisfying.

[alcibiades_mystery]

19. They didn't believe the economy was really on the brink

They believe this to be an invention of the "banksters." These people are fucking idiots.

[AllentownJake]

20. Apparently either did the Federal Reserve or the Administration

Judging by their unemployment projection in September 2008, October 2008, December 2008, January, and March 2009 for the end of the year 2009.

Oh and I know the President wasn't sworn in till January 20th. I was in Washington that day.

However, only one Federal Reserve Character changed...he got a promotion.

[alcibiades_mystery]

24. 10% unemployment is not over the brink

We're talking about Road Warrior over the brink.

As insufficient as the TARP was, it at least prevented that.

[AllentownJake]

28. How about Waterworld

I'd like to have gills.

The Postman would be cool too.

On a side note, I just found a book I'm going to read.

http://www.amazon.com/Liberation-Adventures-Collapse-United-America/dp/0765320460

Fiction book based in a reality with what you are describing.

[alcibiades_mystery]

31. Like I said

Plenty of people have no clue how close to the brink we were.

[AllentownJake]

32. I'll remain skeptical

unless you can show me pictures of the Wall Street crowd getting their private jets ready.

[OhioBlue]

51. Kevin Costner fan are we?

lol - I like those movies too.

I think we were very much on the brink. I remember before the election I had the honor of having lunch with Steve Hildebrand (it was a group of NTLs in Central Ohio)

This was right about the time McCain called for a suspension of the campaign and Obama had skillfully said a President has to be able to do more than one thing...

Anyway, he described the conversations he was having with people. Economists, developers, bankers, trade unions, etc. He saw the ripple effect, he saw the potential disaster of doing nothing. I think the TARP was done wrong, but I also think doing nothing would have led to a Depression rather than a recession. We wouldn't even be talking about hopeful signs of recovery such as Dow upticks or consumer spending confidence.

[tblue37]

21. ?? Who complained about her gorgeous dress?

Never mind--I saw the link to the post.

The president and his wife are representatives of the nation on the world stage. Dressing up for a state dinner is a way of doing honor to the guests. It also is a way of presenting the country in an attractive way. I do not begrudge the first lady the right to wear a beautiful dress when serving as one of our primary representatives on the world stage.

[AllentownJake]

22. Go see the response below mine there is a link

I missed that episode of DU stupidity somehow.

[Clio the Leo]

23. lol, Happy Thanksgiving impik. NT

[dalaigh lllama]

25. Yes!

Thank you! It's bad enough worrying about the teabaggers without reading all the negativity here day in and day out. That complaining about the state dinner thread was just about the last straw.

[Number23]

41. You ain't seen nothing. People are now complaining about his pardoning of a turkey

and his use of the phrase "I was going to eat that sucker."

There are people here seriously bitching about this. For real. No, I'm not playing.

[Cha]

109. dennis kucinich vegans?

I'm vegan but I don't care what anyone else eats..that's their business.

[rebel with a cause]

27. I tried to recommend this also

but don't know if it was counted, but I did finally gain 3 ignores on my list which may soon be joined by others if I stay on this site long enough. This is getting ridiculous with all the finding fault and nit picking senselessly. I just donated and now I almost regret it because I feel like this is not where I feel comfortable anymore.

[jefferson_dem]

47. You've done the right thing.

Ignore the serial whiners. Half are so far out on the left fringe, they've lost all touch with reality. The other half are only pretend lefties who are trolling DU in order to stir up shit. They are a tiny minority but a very loud one. Dismiss and moveon.

[cherokeeprogressive]

29. You hope that in three years, Obama bails out and we have Sarah Palin as president? Really?

Seriously?

[Go2Peace]

36. Actually, after seeing how quickly people compromise, I am afraid it may HAVE to happen

before we can actually really "change" and become a just and sustainable society. It is not what *I* want, but I think it is what may happen, we just aren't motivated enough to keep it from happening.

Obama is a good man, but this approach is like having an uncle who beats you as a child, and he goes on vacation for a while and you get a reprive, and you just get beat again when he gets back. That uncle needed to be put in jail and his friends need to be shown that behavior will not be tolerated. Otherwise nothing changes.

[Cha]

53. Stupid fucking hyperbolic analogy.

[Go2Peace]

57. Glad you like it Cha ;)

[Cha]

85. I like that it's your problem.

[CJCRANE]

81. The old "you have to destroy the village to save it" canard.

That won't help anyone except for maybe the super-rich. That's exactly what the neocons want.

[Chulanowa]

104. Well, it's pretty clearly what a sizable number of DU'ers want

"Anyone but THAT ONE!" seems to be the course of the discussion these days.

[firedupdem]

30. Rec'd...Happy Thanksgiving to you as well. n/t

[DCBob]

33. I starting to feel the same as you. America does not deserve Barack Obama.

The crazy extremists, left and right, can have this f'ked up country.

[Go2Peace]

34. Actually, Obama is about on Par with Clinton. Trouble is, we know where that ended up

I know the meme has been change, but really, it is a serious stretch to make it sound like like so far this is a "change" presidency. Carter was more of a change agent than Obama, and I know we haven't seem everything yet, but I think we know where he is heading at this point. And it is fairly mediochre and not even substational compared to liberal administrations in the past.

Energy? Carter was more radical
Social Welfare? Kennedy, Carter, and Nixon were more transformitive in this manner.
Justice? Clinton had a more open government and more progressive administration.
Executive staff? Clinton and Carter were far more change agents, their cabinets were full of University level thinkers.

[avaistheone1]

35. Clinton did not take us into a war where we lost American lives, or that significantly impacted our

Treasury.

Afghanistan is a whole other animal.

[Go2Peace]

37. I agree. He will compromise one of his strengths by continuing to use the "machine"

There is only one approach to resolving the issues in Afganistan, and that is to convince the entire world (well much of it) that we ALL need to go there and fix the country together. And even then we have to partake it carefully. We simply cannot do it unilaterally.

[winyanstaz]

83. Why dont we just leave there and let them "fix" their own dang country?

We have no damned business even being there.

[ProSense]

40. No Americans died in Bosnia and Somalia?

Really?

Also, those were launched by Clinton, not wars he inherited.

[avaistheone1]

42. Well Clinton's number of causalities were few:

Bosnia 12
Somalia 43

I have to hand in to Clinton (and if you read my posts I am no big Clinton fan). He did a phenomenal jobs managing wars with so few American casualties in both Bosnia and Somalia. I don't think we will come out any where near as well in Afghanistan or Iraq judging from these numbers to-date.

Afghanistan 928
Iraq War 4365

[ProSense]

43. "He did a phenomenal jobs managing wars with so few American casualties"

Clinton launched those attacks. Somalia was a senseless disaster.

Obama inherited these wars, and the casualties you cite are primarily from the Bush years.

[avaistheone1]

58. Bosnia certainly wasn't a senseless disaster.

And both wars kept American casualties to an absolute minimum.

Obama does not have to inherit Afghanistan. He does not have to escalate the war there, and from all the military leaks that are flooding DC that is exactly what he plans to do. That is his choice.

He certainly can pick up the pace in Iraq too. That baby is his now. Iraq will be chaos if we leave next year or in ten. Better to leave now.

[ProSense]

79. "Obama does not have to inherit Afghanistan." So it was over before he took office?

What the hell kind of dumb point are your trying to make? Clinton started two wars. Obama started none. Period.

[OhioBlue]

52. Clinton wasn't handed an Afghanistan.

President Obama hasn't taken us INTO any wars.

[Chulanowa]

106. Neither did Obama

That was Bush. Unfortunately, Obama can't "just leave" the mess Bush left him, no more than any responsible pet owner can "just leave" a pile of catshit on the carpet.

[Deja Q]

38. We changed presidents, what more do we want?

[Go2Peace]

56. To reverse the damage? Why not? The country is nothing like it was 30 years ago, in a bad way.

And the rest of the modern world has learned and grown while we have been dying on the vine. We have a lot of catchup to do

[Cha]

100. Obama isn't on Par with anyone.

[patrice]

44. Agree strongly, but one exception: "The Left" How/Why does anyone take posters on the internet

for what they say they are? Especially without real names? How does anyone know that what they are looking at isn't a bunch of people trying to damage someone or something by pretending to be someone they aren't?

I take about 50% of the crap I see around here as pure theater. I recommend that others consider the same.

[jefferson_dem]

45. Huge K/R.

I've grown the despise the loony left (nearly) as much as the wacko right. Both suck equally.

[Tarheel_Dem]

59. +10,000. (nt)

[boppers]

46. Happy Thanksgiving to You Too!

K&R

[PatSeg]

49. Thanks

Disagreement and criticism is fine and appropriate in a democracy, but some people need a reality check. Any president is bound to disappoint even his most devoted supporters at one time or another. How quickly some forget eight years of the pure hell under Bush. I won't support every policy decision of this administration, but I never expected to. I wasn't expecting miracles. I voted for competency and thoughtful governance. I believe we elected the best person for the job at this time in history and I am prepared to be disappointed at times, but I'm not about to trash the entire presidency over those disappointments.

[2tr4nqued]

50. Obama is wrong. No more troops to Afghanistan.

The war is not worth fighting. The goals are unrealistic and unachievable. Soldiers are dying for nothing in Afghanistan. Obama is wrong. We should not send more troops to Afghanistan.

[ShortnFiery]

55. Exactly. This isn't about OBAMA, this is about doing what's morally sound. eom

[OhioBlue]

54. Happy Thanksgiving!

I appreciate thoughtful posts on issues by DUers even when they disagree with our President.

But I agree so much with your sentiment - it does seem there are posters here that cannot freakin' wait to bitch about something/anything Obama. Michelle's dress? The angle of his bow? And the "this isn't the change I voted for" or the "where is the hope and change?" crap really gets tiresome.

[Lindsey]

63. Thank you so much for this post, Impik! Everything you said is

ABSOLUTELY right on. I'm also completely disgusted with some of these posts. So many people here are completely disregarding what President Obama has done for the good (and he hasn't even been in office a year) Stem Cell research (among many other things) is a big issue with me and he immediately reversed the Bush Administration's policy.I'm outraged that our on DU's are being so vicious toward the President. Not to mention he inherited this country in worse shape than any other President with the exception of FDR and Lincoln. I was thinking just the other day that if he continues to be attacked throughout his term he probably won't run again and then where we be? I'm thinking that I need to take a break from DU for awhile (except the lounge).

[uponit7771]

62. PONY!!! KNR

[Froward69]

64. Damn Straight!!!

Spot on!


There was a word that was vilified when it was used twards the LGBT community that fits the whiners out there Right AND Left. that word was "Poutrage" As that is exactly what the haters(R)and the Whiners (L) are doing.

BOO fucking HOO muthafuckers!

on edit/ I for one am not singing zippity doo dah over the situation, but DAMN, it sure is a hell of a lot better than under rethuglican malfeasance.

[barbtries]

65. happy thanksgiving

i will give thanks today that we are semi-free of the reign of gw and the dick.

[shadesofgray]

67. LOL. So I guess we lefties just shouldn't have all voted for Obama in the first place? Then you

would be happy?

Because that's what you seem to be saying.

In the past 10 months, the rich have gotten richer and the poor have gotten poorer. Banks, drug companies and insurance companies write their own tickets. Abortion rights and gay rights thrown under the bus. And endless war. Same as it ever was. Sorry, but I can't celebrate.

[jefferson_dem]

68. Hey. Welcome to DU.

:hi:

Happy Thanksgiving!

[shadesofgray]

117. Thank you!

[Sebastian Doyle]

69. How many cheerleader outrage threads does this make now?

I lost count after the three dozen or so posted yesterday.

[NJmaverick]

70. Are the occasional non-Obama hating thread upsetting you?

or is the the fact and reason in those posts you find off putting?

[Sebastian Doyle]

73. Fact and reason?

I believe the OP accused those who criticize this administration's continuation of right wing policies as "INSANE". Not seeing a lot of fact and reason there.

And I'm no Obama "hater". I'll admit to being seriously disappointed though.

[NJmaverick]

110. I have seen some blatantly intellectually dishonest articles posted in efforts to bring Obama down

I can understand the OP's anger

[Hamlette]

72. thanks for saying this. It's been difficult for me to even come to this board lately

I've had to tell myself that DU really is a group of crazy leftist outliers. Otherwise, I go crazy.

I don't expect ppl to follow in lockstep like the GOP does but the constant carping will destroy ALL of us and, as you say, give us Palin. It was like the war with the Greens in 2000. Some idiots can't see the friggin forest for the trees.

[goclark]

74. Welcome to DU your post makes so much sense

You are Brave to even attempt to stop the Civil War here.

I am sure this makes the Freepers happy -- they are really winning because they know that DU is acting just like they want it to -- Crabs in A Barrel.

Sad

Happy Thanksgiving to YOU and Your Family.

[Zavulon]

75. "It's time that someone will tell the truth here."

And that truth translates to this: "Anyone who doesn't think exactly like me is an idiot, and although discussion boards are usually used for discussion they shouldn't be unless everyone agrees with me. Nobody has the right to think otherwise, or complain about Obama at all, because I say so."

Yet another condescending blowhard chastising people for having differing opinions, and yet another person I put on ignore.

[Phx_Dem]

77. I agree. I expect it from Republicans, but not from Dems.

The progressives are always screaming because the Democrats in the House and Senate don't unanimously agree with the progressive vision or plan. Yet, when you ask them why they CONSTANTLY criticize their own party, they claim it's for the good because they're "holding their feet to the fire."

So when all Dems don't agree with progressives, it BAD. But when progressives don't agree with other Dems it's GOOD. Typicall bullshit.

[donheld]

78. The complaints are about Obama's continued ties to Goldman Sachs

His sucking up to Wall Street. His desparate attempts to get republican support at the sacrifice of anything progressive.
I for one, don't give a damn about Michelle's dress. I think he's earned more vacation than he's taken. I also think he
needs to give up his panicked quest for republican support. I think he needs to stop ignoring his base, and at least
dance a few dances with we who brung him.

[cry baby]

80. OK, truthteller...k&r...and

I loved the rant!

[Cowpunk]

82. So you want Obama to "Go Galt"?

This is the typical authoritarian right-winger response to anyone criticizing someone they like in a position of power, be it a politician, a businessman, a soldier, a police officer, etc: Don't you dare criticize them or they might take their ball of magnificence and go home, in fact they should. Grow up.

[QC]

86. +1

[azmouse]

84. Happily rec'd!!

Well said.

[MrsCorleone]

87. Very satisfying rant. Happy Thanksgiving!

:toast:

[HipChick]

89. K&R...good rant..people need to be slapped upside the head with a bit of reality

[Undercurrent]

101. Thank you for doing a better job

of stating what I've been saying all along.

[KoKo]

111. "Do You People." Who is it you are referring to? "You People?"

:shrug: Who is the "Left" in your mind? I'm a Democrat. As a Democrat I reserve the right to express my opinion about any elected Democrat, if I think their policies deviate from the Party I've voted for since I was 18 years old. It's been a long time of voting. I'm not a Republican because they are lock step with anyone with an "R" after their name. You don't dissent in today's Repug Party. If you do...you are vilified.

You want Dems to be like Repugs? Obama said "We have to Make Him DO IT." So...what do you think he meant by that?

[Political Heretic]

113. Well, this is also a fairly easy rebuttal to make:

And now you have complaints about Michelle's dress at a State Dinner? Seriously? You complaint about the Obama's vacation?? What vacation? They took 10 days in August and spent half the time grieving over Ted Kennedy. This is the most hard working president i've ever seen.

First the agreement: I hadn't see this yet, but complaining about dresses or vacation is silly and, in my opinion, a distraction from issues that matter more.

Now, on to the easy rebuttal part....

Do you even care about the fact that in 10 months this president has done things that no president did in 30-40 years?

Another emotion-based, rather than data based statement. I understand that you strongly support the Presidents policy to date, and actions to date. But it would be such a stronger argument if you stuck to defending those policies rather than trying to emotionally say he's the "Best" president in 40 years (or as another poster wrote, "has done more than any president in history." Really? wowzers. Move over George Washington!)

Here come the "facts" - which is a big list of talking points without merit.

Did you bother to stop for a second and check the facts? The biggest investment EVER in clean energy, the biggest investment EVER in education, the biggest investment in infrastructure since the 50s,

As usual, any one of these statements comes with huge caveats if one bothers to look at the policy or actions beyond a simple bullet point. But that's what so many don't seem interested in doing. It seems like many just want to find a bulleted list of talking points about "accomplishments" so that they can burn those talking points into their minds and never once actually think about the details.

The biggest ever investment in clean energy? Well seeing as how "clean energy" hasn't been a thing for every long, that's not really saying as much. Not to mention the fact that money put into clean energy technology does not matter as much while the financial elite and oil continue to have their way with environmental policy, already weakening any Cap and Trade legislation before its even hit the floor, getting their way in keeping us out of binding treaties on climate, and on and on and on.

passing laws that were stinking in congress for years and years.

Like what? I want you to make this list, if you even can, so that yourself will have to write the list of things and see how silly it is. We need a party and a president with the courage and conviction to re-proritize the needs of the poor and working class Americans above the whims of the financial elite, and we need this before the greed and excess of our countries economic corruption destroys our financial system, and cripples the country.

Making a list of some hear-and-there bills that get pass are wonderful things. I'm happy for pay equity, I'm happy the global gag rule was overturned (even though its overturned every time a new president and party take power, and nothing new.) These things are good, and I support them. But they don't reflect a shift in policy. And on the most major and pressing issues of our day this party and this president are conspicuously either absent or actively working with the financial elite against the working class.

Completely restoring America's standing in the world.

Completely? America's standing in the world is based on the hope that an Obama administration reflects more sane policy. Have you be reading at all recently about foreign leaders and their dismay at what has actually happened? Escalating war in the middle east, check. Refusing to support climate treaty, check. Refusing to close all secret prisons staged around the world, even while promising to close Gitmo, check.

Our "standing" in the world (and by the way, when you say "the world" you mean the "western world" as if that's the only world there is) is based entirely on hope that things will be different. And most certainly, this administration has a much more diplomatic approach to continuing on many of the forgiven policy components of the last administration, so that the western world is more agreeable to ignoring them. Obama is certainly a charmer, whereas Bush's approach to the world was "FU." But that's not really saying much about the justness or equity of our behavior in the world, now is it?

Creating what is easily the most open and transparent White House ever.

Now one this one, that's simply a falsehood. There was a promise of amazing transparency, which has not materialized in many instances.

http://www.aclu.org/national-security">Here's the ACLU's reports describing opposition to FOIA requests and lack of transparency.

http://www.propublica.org/tag/Transparency">here's a propublica list of articles on administrative transparency - some are talk about positive steps, others talk about big transparency setbacks in other areas.

Setting date to end the war in Iraq, exactly within the time frame he promised in the campaign.

I'll reserve judgment on this until it happens. However:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=7681649">Army Chief Says US Ready to Be in Iraq 10 Years

Getting closer than anyone ever to health care reform that as flawed as it will be, it's still a huge improvement over the current situation.

Unfortunately, I believe the opposite is actually true. The current versions of House and Senate Bill would http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7063614&mesg_id=7063614">actively harm poor and working Americans over the long run

And doing all this while facing almost an unprecedented Right-Wing hate machine, and a stunningly bad congress.

A stunningly bad congress, that Democrats overwhelmingly control. You'll notice that in my critiques I criticize administrative and congressional democratic policy action. It's not personally about Obama the man, who I happen to like. It's about policy.

As far as the right-wing goes, less that 20% of America identifies as Republican in latest polls, so its not exactly a huge terrible force to be reckoned with.

What did you think, that he'll fix 8 years worth of horrible damage in less than a year?

It's not about speed, its about direction. It's not that Obama isn't moving quick enough to fix problems that existed before his administration. It's that this administration and its policies are actively creating problems. They continue a pattern of prioritizing wants and whims of the financial elite above the needs of poor and working class Americans.

That's a directional problem, not a speed problem. I don't even want the administration to move any faster, because they're going the wrong way.

[Window]

115. K/R. n/t

[sudopod]

119. I don't think it's fair to blame it on the left

any more than you can blame PFC Average Joe for fighting in Iraq. The forces that control the flow of news and information are doing a damn good job of deceiving us into fighting each other, just like the Bush cabal lied to all of us in order to use the blood, and also rage, of our sons and daughters to achieve his goals.

Good people who hate injustice are being led to believe that the President is some sort of baby-eating secret conservative fuckface. On account of those beliefs, passionate activists are reacting in what is, based on what they have been led to believe, a reasonable manner. They feel hurt and deceived on account of deceit. This is clearly independent of the so-called purity of their progressive principles. Being on the left only defines what sort of tools the Powers That Be will choose to wind them up.

We are being fed different lies than the ones the Republican base are getting, but they come from the same source, and they are meant for the same purpose. The Republican base is told that Obama and the Democratic party want to destroy America and rebuild some sort of socialist/fascist (yes, I know that makes no sense) utopia. The Left is being told that Obama is a traitor to the cause, who in a few short months has already sold out a lifetime of political activism for the rights of the poor in order to enrich Wall Street and war profiteers. Interestingly, both views are pushed by the same sources that neither the "left" nor the "right" officially trust, but yet both believe. I suppose we don't notice the lies meant for them, and they don't notice the lies meant for us. (maybe it's the <fnord> tags?) How is it that the teabaggers believe that he wants to destroy all industry while some of our fine folks think that he wants to build a coal-fired power plant on every block? How have they convinced your next door neighbor that the President wants to dismantle the military and leave us open to attack while many of our number believe he's a-ok with with selling land mines three for a dollar?

We are being divided against ourselves, and this thread is proof. It's not your fault. It is not your fault. However, we must learn to see the reality behind what we are being told, or we will be broken.

[chrisa]

121. Because you're dealing with people who get angry if you don't agree with

EVERY single political position they take. When Obama does something they disagree with the hornet's nest stirs up, and they say things like "This isn't what we elected him for!" It could even be something he said he was going to do in his campaign.

America is a sort-sighted, at times moronic, and "I want it now!!!" country. Notice how people were complaining within weeks of Obama getting elected that the economy didn't improve instantly. As if Obama is king of the world, or something.