I would like some people here to do a little experiment.

[verges]

Let your house get a little messy. Nothing extreme. Just go without cleaning for a few days. That’s to establish a base point. Now, I want you to go to your kitchen timer, and set it for 80 minutes. During this 80 minutes, I want you to go nuts and completely trash the place! Empty all the drawers in the house and dump them. Pull everything out of the kitchen cupboards and tear the packages and hurl them across the room. Overturn all the furniture in the living room! Tear the cushions from the couch and throw the stuffing all over. Make the biggest, most destructive mess you possibly can in the eighty minutes. Now stop. Reset the timer for only 10 minutes this time. You now have 10 minutes to restore everything and get your home into what my mother would call a “company clean” state. Everything must be sparkling!

You say it’s impossible? Then why ask it of the President?.

[sohndrsmith]

1. Good analogy. Thanks. : ) n/t

[Luciferous]

2. But he's not trying to clean anything up

he's making things worse instead of better.

[verges]

3. here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=15367&mesg_id=15367

[democracy1st]

24. Wall St owns this admin

[roguevalley]

57. refusing to sign the landmine ban is unforgiveable. Absolutely

unforgiveable.

[Egnever]

4. whats worse?

[HughMoran]

14. Quick solution to that

:hi:

[treestar]

82. WTF?

[vaberella]

108. Exactly. He's Bush 3. McCain/Palin x4. He's destroying the fabric of America. Evil.

You're a genius and many on DU agree with you. Keep it coming.


After that bit of sarcasm----too much shit posts and people on DU.

[bigjohn16]

5. How do I factor in the 35,000 troops being sent to Afghanistan into your analogy? nt

[AllentownJake]

8. The living room needs to be burnt down to clean it nt

[spoony]

19. !!!

:applause:

[QC]

94. +1

[verges]

9. He said he was going to do that during the campaign. nt

[AllentownJake]

10. No no no

We need to stick with the Messy House, I'm saying there is a mouse in the living room that needs to be caught so we are going to burn down the living room.

[verges]

13. That's only one room.

I'm talking about the whole house

[AllentownJake]

17. The room we are burning to the ground

Got it.

Watch little Timmeh, the President told him to clean his room and he's lifting up his bed and throwing all the shit under it, and smoking pot with the Goldman Sachs kids he snuck in the window.

I like this House Analogy.

[vaberella]

109. Obama said this? Or the media told you?! n/t

[bigjohn16]

111. I heard it from the evil media! The scary media ! nt

[AllentownJake]

6. Is this the new analogy of the week?

The messy house.

Here is the deal, I'd probably not be as aghast right now if I didn't see him walk into the messy house, call the people that swept the mess under the bed in their room last time they were in the house and than proceed to see him scatter the mess around in some areas while saying I'm busy cleaning while saying grab a mop.

[jgraz]

16. I like this one.

How bout instead of actually cleaning your house, you just get together with a bunch of your friends and post nonsense about how clean it's gonna be in an hour.

[AllentownJake]

18. Oh I'm having fun with this one

The President told Timmeh to clean his room and instead he pushed everything under the bed and is now smoking pot with his friend from Goldman he snuck in through his window.

[jgraz]

29. Actually...

Timmeh took all our pot and gave it out to his friends.

And he didn't push anything under the bed. He just thinks we're too stupid to notice.

And some of us are.

[AllentownJake]

31. That actually is more accurate

Shamefully....well at least he's not growing it in the garden and destroying the value of what we have left like Ben.

[QC]

95. Well, the ones about vulcan chess and turning a stupendously big ship around got stale,

so it was time for a new apologist cliché.

Still, this one's not very good.

[cornermouse]

7. Dumb comparison.

[FrenchieCat]

12. Actually, it is quite apropos!

and reminds me of this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=258x8066

[cornermouse]

65. Vanity is apparently where its at and what its all about.

[Clio the Leo]

11. Throw in a couple of guests who have no idea how to clean.....

.... to come by, sit on the couch and tell you what you're doing wrong, and your analogy is perfect.

[EffieBlack]

72. Beautiful!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[jgraz]

15. Damn, you'd better ice your groin after that stretch

How bout this? After the 80 minutes you spent messing up the house, you just continue messing it up for another 10 minutes. But you shout "CHANGE" while you're doing it.

How much cleaner did your house get?

[FrenchieCat]

20. It's already a lot fucking cleaner.......

but those sitting in they easy chairs with dark shades on and a whip in their hand won't be able to tell the difference, cause to them, it looks all the same even when it isn't.

[AllentownJake]

21. As opposed to those in Cheer Leader outfits doing cartwheels in the background

still not really cleaning, they are just happy with what is going on. Well they are not sure what is going on, they are just happy someone new is in the House.

[FrenchieCat]

26. Hey, I know! What don't we loudly undermine every fucking move the President makes,

and see if that will get us anything more in the long run!
At some point, it's like crying wolf....cause everyone already knows
whatever it is will be hated.

Looks to me like the cheerleaders and their pompoms have more fucking sense,
then the old men in their lounge chairs with their lemonade and their bitter
snark.

[AllentownJake]

28. How about we drop the stupid analogies

and actually talk about something that is going on in the real world. Talk like adults not like primitive man staring at the sun trying to figure out where it goes every night and inventing stories to explain it.

[verges]

30. Nobody forces you to reply to a thread like this. nt

[jgraz]

35. Nobody forces you to post a thread like this.

Yet somehow, you managed it.

[AllentownJake]

37. No but I'm sure the next time I post something

that someone disagrees with and can't explain why rationally, I'm going to start ending up talking about the Messy House. Might as well let people know how snarky I'm going to be a head of time.

If I have to hear about the battleship or skidding car anymore I think I might scream.

[FrenchieCat]

33. I'm facing reality......

and reality wasn't ever that Obama was going to turn Wall Street upside down,
and make them leave town with their dicks in their hands,

nor was he going to announce that we are done with all wars,
right now, and Afghanistan can kiss his ass.

That's the story that some chose to believe.
No wonder they are disappointed!\
I would be too!

[AllentownJake]

38. well I sure as hell know this

If his behavior right now is what you were looking for, you really had some low expectations...God what did Bush do to push people to have such low expectations from their public officials.

[FrenchieCat]

42. "His behavior?"

What is this?
You are smart and I am stupid?
Or maybe you are jaded,
and I am patient.....and still know, that no matter how long I wait,
I still won't end up with everything I would have ever wanted.....
not even from a Black President.

[AllentownJake]

45. I could give a flying fuck if he was a space alien

or a talking bear. He gets shit done, good for him.

[R. P. McMurphy]

101. Damn! A defense of George Bush.

Never thought I'd see that here.

[AllentownJake]

102. Saying that George Bush was such a disaster that people are happy with anything

Is not a defense of Bush.

[tavalon]

39. Naw, tortured analogies are more fun!

Our current President has done some awesome things and he's done some abysmal, even atrocious things and he always looks smashingly cool doing it all. However, We The People are still getting fucked over, just not by a frat boy with a fake Texas twang. It isn't nearly as much as I had hoped for.

[jgraz]

34. If you don't demand things from politicians, you never get it

Witness the Dems' collapse on Single Payer and the upcoming collapse on the Public Option.

What you call "undermining", we call "participatory democracy".

[FrenchieCat]

48. There's a difference with being down publicly on every fucking thing,

while saying the same things over and over again,
versus being selective, organized and loud doing whatever needs to be done
to stay in the game.

Perhaps if more folks would have combated the crazy ass town hallers,
and challenged the media on their reporting of that shit loudly and relentlessly,
public opinion wouldn't have been massaged so much against
the PO and health Care reform in general.

But instead, many of us just sat, watched and laughed....
while the rest of the country begin to pay attention
to a small handful of folks.

Some say our Dem politicians are weak and meek and quiet,
but to me, when it comes to fighting the opposition
instead of each other, I don't see the rank and file
being so "all that"....cause when it comes down to it,
they are weak and meek and quiet as well,
unless they are fighting their own.
In otherwords, our leadership does seem to reflect who we are...

[verges]

49. Well stated.

[AllentownJake]

51. Funny

Four times the number of people who showed up at the Tea Bagger Rally showed up on the mall before the Iraq War....and you are wrong, they don't reflect who we are, if they did, that vote wouldn't have gone that way, nor would have TARP which most were against till the President through his support on it as a Senator, nor would have the Bush Tax Cuts, which were loudly protested by the left,

I see people out for the Public Option gathering signatures everyday, because that is what their leaders told them to do. If they were told to go to Tea Bagger rallys or town halls they would have been there as well.

Nope Frenchie, bashing the left's organizing ability or what they have done the past 8 years is silly and you wouldn't have your hero if it wasn't for the work of a lot of those people.

[FrenchieCat]

54. "Those people" organized......

that's why they got what they want.

currently, no so much.

The only thing that is happening to Obama is a big pile on,
from the left and from the Right.
Folks looking at that aren't trying to tell who's who....
they just see a big pile,
and that affects public opinion
about the one person who is key in giving us some gains,
and that just ties his hands that much more.

Selective organized pile ons, I'm all for.
Yelling real loudly "you need to do this instead of that"
starts to sound like noise......
and at the end, Obama is but one man,
and we are the ones who will lose
not only what we were yelling about,
but anything else that we were going to yell about later.

[AllentownJake]

55. What did you expect would happen

When you send people out with clip boards into the streets for 4 months for a Public Option getting signatures, and you deliver a watered down version of that in both bills and a Stupak amendment and a bad pre-existing clause in the Senate Bill. For Christ Sake he lost Howard Dean tonight on the Senate Bill.

Did you read what John Conyers said the other day? How about DeFazio getting so frustrated he is publicly calling for the firing of his Treasury Secretary? These men have no upward mobility and no election day threat next year. Their only reason for starting to speak out is they have genuine concerns. When Party elders start getting pissed off you pay attention.

It's called leadership. He isn't showing it, and when he does, he normally sides with the blue dogs at the expense of the base. He reaches across the aisle getting his hand slapped over and over and over again and treats his own people like they are a burden.

[jgraz]

56. +1

[FrenchieCat]

58. Fuck that shit.

Both HCR bills are going up to this point with a PO in them......
and we are at a place that it has never gotten to before.

As for the Sec of Treasury, I realize that he is your big bad boogie man,
but the economy is doing better, and will continue to do so,
and you can ignore that as it happens, and only highlight the shit that remains,
because it appears that you only wanted
to overturn capitalism, and that wasn't gonna happen,

As for leadership, you and other may have that perception,
but I believe you and them to be wrong. In this case, your pronouncement
is nothing more than your judgement call set in stone
because you so want to be right, and can't wait to say so....
if you haven't already.

As for us being a burden, I don't believe for one minute that is how Obama sees us....
Those who are the Frontline activists will end up making the biggest difference,
but most of them don't bitch and moan endlessly. they pick their battles, they organize,
and they certainly do not confuse who is the real enemy based on what some say.
They survey and see the forest for the trees, instead of stopping to weigh in endlessly
about every move made in a calculated negative meant to deflate rather than encourage
those who still see themselves as having a job to do.

[AllentownJake]

67. If you want to call the piece of shit in this bill a Public Option

fine.

The FED which has had the most rosy projections on the economy is expecting no employment relief till late 2010. The 3.5% GDP growth suddenly just became 2.8% growth and if you back out some of the stimulus bill you still have negative growth. If you back out the chinese imports from American companies that are counted as American GDP it goes down further. I guess I'm just not seeing this magic recovery, that is being preached.

Overturn capitalism, I'd settle for regulation, this crop of Democrats can't even get that basic thing right...too many corporate donations handed out to two of the branches of government. The only one looking at real reform is Chris Dodd, and that is because Michael Moore exposed him for the lackey he was in a movie.

Oh, and the only time this President shows any leadership is when he goes after progressive organizations for attacking Blue Dogs.

He picked a side before the inaguration, and it wasn't ours.

[Yavin4]

89. See, Frenchie, People Like Allentown Wanted The Entire Financial System to Collapse

Thereby wiping out all pensions, 401-Ks, savings, and millions of jobs, and then from that a Liberal economic utopia would emerge.

[AllentownJake]

97. I love how you put words into people's mouth

This is like Bushies saying war protesters want soldiers to die.

[tekisui]

105. I couldn't say it better.

It has been the lack of leadership I have found most disappointing. How is it Democrats still have to work within repuke frames?

[cherokeeprogressive]

60. What say we get a clue and realize that nary a word typed here on this forum affects ANYTHING

President Obama thinks or does?

Nary a word typed here affects his poll standings, his foreign policy decisions, or his domestic policy decisions.

We're a fucking message board, for goodness' sake, and we do nothing but post opinions that have no bearing on anything.

There is no way we could undermine anything at all. Stop making it seem like we're somehow holding President Obama back from some greatness that he hasn't achieved because of some opinions posted on a message board called Democratic Underground.

[AllentownJake]

69. It is well known he reads what is said on here

and it hurts his feelings.

:sarcasm:

[treestar]

84. That doesn't fit, because our diplomacy is much improved and we

are getting out of Iraq, that alone is cleaning up at least some.

[verges]

85. But they want it all! NOW DAMMIT!

[jgraz]

86. Yes, he sucks less than Bush.

But he sucks much more than the guy I voted for and donated to and volunteered for.

You know, THIS guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZG8Zq8V54k

[Lisa0825]

22. K&R!!!

:applause:

[quiet.american]

23. Where are all these flippin' pro-Obama people coming from on DU?

I'd just like to say:

:yourock: :headbang: :woohoo: :applause: :applause: :applause: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:

[ZombieHorde]

25. Done. nt

[tranche]

27. There's a little magic troll that some believe can clean it up in a snap.

And then fly away in his shiny shiny space ship. Weeeeeee!

[Yavin4]

90. And here he is...

[tavalon]

32. That would be a good analogy

if he were trying to clean it up. But, he wants to keep warrentless wiretapping and many of the provisions in the Patriot Act and he even wants to keep playing unwinnable war in Afghanistan so the analogy begins to fall apart. He is cleaning a few select things but there are other things he is quite willing to keep just the way Bush left it. That's not okay.

[FrenchieCat]

36. That's not really the truth of it......

except for when explained to simpletons.

[tavalon]

44. Which part of what I just listed isn't true

Have I been getting false information?

[AllentownJake]

41. I think the sweeping under the rug

is more correct in those circumstances.

[jgraz]

40. Obama Administration Will Not Sign Land Mine Ban

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4159533

Sorry, how much cleaner does that make the house?

[verges]

43. looking at one room.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=15367&mesg_id=15367

[jgraz]

46. I'm sure this guy will love your messy house analogy

[Lilith Velkor]

47. It's the Presidency, not the Special Olympics

If he couldn't handle the job, he shouldn't have fucking run.

[FrenchieCat]

50. Oh, I know he can handle the job......

it's more a question of allowing the time to get it done.

That's what this fucking OP was about.

[Lilith Velkor]

62. Nothing posted here in any way prevents or delays the administration doing anything.

You do know that, don't you?

:yoiks:

[FrenchieCat]

64. Since you've never really approved of him,

It wasn't ever change that you could believe in, or wait for, for that matter.

[Lilith Velkor]

91. Oh, I love it when you make it all about me!

It's as if you believe that his Presidency will succeed or fail depending on whether I embrace a stupid slogan, or enjoy waiting until 2013 for health insurance (and until never for the war to end), for that matter.

Of course, if you really did believe that, you'd probably be a tad more respectful, unless logic is not your forte.

[verges]

53. NO one could have

handled the job that is being demanded. Is he doing a perfect job? No. The land mines and the Patriot Act are disturbing. But in less than one year progress has been made on several fronts. Gitmo, Health Care, Economy etc. Is it enough (in any topic!)? No. Is it better than it was? Yes. And there is still further to go. My OP was commenting on all the people who B&M that nothings happening. He's been in office 10 months and we're not in American Liberal Nirvana yet. Nor are we going to get there. Ever. The opposition are Master Obstructionists and Masters of propaganda! And it seems that too many who are supposed to be on the same side feel like making life difficult as well. It ain't easy.

[Lilith Velkor]

63. "American Liberal Nirvana." Mmm-hmm.

Must be horrible to have to post on a message board full of...liberals. :scared:

[verges]

78. My point was

that it ain't goin to happen all at once. We can only go one step at a time. There is no magic wand. But there is a very partisan Congress. In one year some progress has been made. Maybe not as much as you like. Maybe not as much as I like. But asking for everything all at once just isn't realistic.

[Lilith Velkor]

92. Your point was a strawman.

Nobody is demanding a magic wand, or everything at once.

What people are demanding is one step at a time IN THE PROPER DIRECTION. As in, towards a more comfortable life for the American people, and away from sucking up to the banksters and insurance parasites that prey upon them. As in, towards a well-defended nation, and away from an unstable empire.

Those demands are reasonable, IMO.

[donheld]

52. Then tell me why he (Obama) is spending most of his time with

people who did their very best to help cause the mess in the first place? He refuses to listen to any oposing
view points only those of Goldman Sach etc. You can't totally clean a pig sty till you get rid of the pig.

[emilyg]

61. +1

[VMI Dem]

59. Easy, tell the gay couple next door they still can't get married, dust off a couple of chairs

and tell the company that its better than nothing.

Then bathe in the adoration.

[HamdenRice]

66. But you don't realize I'm a wizard and can snap my fingers and command everything back into place!!1

[PVnRT]

68. Translation:

"All you critics need to just shut up and agree with everything Obama does. All that matters is party loyalty, regardless of what they do."

There. Fixed for you. Next time just post that.

[AllentownJake]

71. I'd respect that more

Would still respond with Snark, but hey at least they would be honest instead of creating ridiculous stories to explain their worldview.

[uponit7771]

73. Nah, just need to keep things in perspective and be patient which most of the cirtics aren't being

[AllentownJake]

74. I think Matt Taibi has a good perspective

Article today, The Obama Sell Out.

Looking forward to reading it today.

[uponit7771]

75. Looking at the facts what Matt has printed is beyond stupid....looking at the facts

[AllentownJake]

76. Care to back that up with anything

or is Matt an enemy of the state now.

[verges]

80. No, not at all.

I'm saying patience.

[uponit7771]

70. Obama is Bush dammit!!! /sarcasm

[Forkboy]

77. I think GD-P is aiming for "Most Insipid Forum" on DU.

[Lilith Velkor]

104. Mission. Accomplished.

[LWolf]

79. Missing the point by miles.

It's not about "more time."

It's about moving the wrong direction. Why give him more time to go down the wrong path?

[treestar]

83. HUH?

:wtf:

[LWolf]

96. What is it that you don't understand?

He doesn't need more time to further escalate the war on terror.

He doesn't need more time to further escalate his war on public education.

He doesn't need more time to sign the land mine ban.

He doesn't need more time to allow some key provisions of the Patriot Act to expire without renewing them.

He doesn't need more time to turn the health care debate into an insurance debate and allow insurance corporations and corporatist politicians to destroy any hope for authentic health care reform.

[treestar]

81. Great!

I love it!

I am sick of the unreasonableness! Rome wasn't built in a day either!

[Honeycombe8]

87. Oooooh. This hits too close to home! (You talk like letting house get messy...

is, er...an unusual thing. :blush: )

[Prism]

88. Piling things in a corner and shoving it under beds is not "cleaning"

Well, not in my world. But some people seem to think that is the case.

[Jamastiene]

93. ROFLMAO

OMG, this place is a laugh riot today.

[Starry Messenger]

98. Does this work if you live in an apartment?

:crazy:

[AllentownJake]

99. No go buy a fucking house and stimulate the economy

Traitor.

[Starry Messenger]

100. Yes sir!

Of course, where I live my spending power will buy me a shed. But this experiment seems very specific.

[QC]

103. What if you continue to trash the house, but just do it more slowly?

That's a far better analogy.

[vaberella]

106. Your post has gotten K/R'd, bookmarked, and you're on my buddy list.

Brilliant post.

[ClarkUSA]

107. And your bitter neighbors who never liked you anyway come & yell @ you about what a dumbass you are.

Because of course they could clean up so much better and faster than you because they're so much smarter and know so much
more about everything than you do even though they have never seen the inside of your home before and have no idea as to the
true extent of the damage.

[Scurrilous]

110. K & R

:thumbsup:

[Raine]

112. Just make a start on reversing the damage

is all I ask not continuing it or leaving it.

[noamnety]

113. Is it helpful if the first thing I do

is hire a team of advisers from companies who specialize in creating and advocating for messy houses?